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Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:07 AM

Today I learned everyone was against the Afghan war from the beginning

I mean, 88% support when we went in.

But yes, everyone knew right from the start it was a bad idea and wanted nothing to do with it.

I wonder if people are just muddling Afghanistan with Iraq in their memories.

Because the American people, Republicans and Democrats, very much wanted in there after 9/11. Now, even journalists, who are getting called out left and right, are going, "We knew it was a bad idea and opposed it . . ." Johnny, roll the tape.

People do know the Internet exists, right? That there's video and posts and web pages that go back to 2001?

This is like me going growing my hair out and declaring I have always been against short hair. There are, you know, pictures.

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Reply Today I learned everyone was against the Afghan war from the beginning (Original post)
Sympthsical Aug 2021 OP
Dr. Shepper Aug 2021 #1
maxsolomon Aug 2021 #38
Hoyt Aug 2021 #2
Bev54 Aug 2021 #35
snowybirdie Aug 2021 #3
Haggard Celine Aug 2021 #14
honest.abe Aug 2021 #4
Blues Heron Aug 2021 #7
honest.abe Aug 2021 #10
Blues Heron Aug 2021 #12
honest.abe Aug 2021 #16
Blues Heron Aug 2021 #20
honest.abe Aug 2021 #22
Blues Heron Aug 2021 #23
honest.abe Aug 2021 #24
SmittyWerben Aug 2021 #31
honest.abe Aug 2021 #33
LanternWaste Aug 2021 #73
Emrys Aug 2021 #52
honest.abe Aug 2021 #60
Emrys Aug 2021 #65
honest.abe Aug 2021 #66
Emrys Aug 2021 #71
honest.abe Aug 2021 #74
Emrys Aug 2021 #78
honest.abe Aug 2021 #79
Emrys Aug 2021 #80
honest.abe Aug 2021 #81
Emrys Aug 2021 #83
honest.abe Aug 2021 #84
Emrys Aug 2021 #85
GoCubsGo Aug 2021 #41
honest.abe Aug 2021 #43
GoCubsGo Aug 2021 #45
honest.abe Aug 2021 #46
GoCubsGo Aug 2021 #47
honest.abe Aug 2021 #61
GoCubsGo Aug 2021 #62
honest.abe Aug 2021 #63
GoCubsGo Aug 2021 #67
honest.abe Aug 2021 #68
GoCubsGo Aug 2021 #70
honest.abe Aug 2021 #72
Steelrolled Aug 2021 #51
GoCubsGo Aug 2021 #53
Steelrolled Aug 2021 #55
GoCubsGo Aug 2021 #56
Steelrolled Aug 2021 #58
Skittles Aug 2021 #88
Steelrolled Aug 2021 #89
Skittles Aug 2021 #90
Steelrolled Aug 2021 #92
Skittles Aug 2021 #87
SoonerPride Aug 2021 #5
BComplex Aug 2021 #15
UpInArms Aug 2021 #17
crickets Aug 2021 #49
CentralMass Aug 2021 #30
Tomconroy Aug 2021 #6
MoonRiver Aug 2021 #8
Sympthsical Aug 2021 #9
MoonRiver Aug 2021 #21
Chainfire Aug 2021 #11
Shellback Squid Aug 2021 #13
Mad_Machine76 Aug 2021 #28
DinahMoeHum Aug 2021 #18
stopdiggin Aug 2021 #19
treestar Aug 2021 #25
UnderThisLaw Aug 2021 #26
Mad_Machine76 Aug 2021 #27
CentralMass Aug 2021 #32
Mad_Machine76 Aug 2021 #36
Delphinus Aug 2021 #29
MichMan Aug 2021 #34
chowder66 Aug 2021 #37
maxsolomon Aug 2021 #39
honest.abe Aug 2021 #40
BeckyDem Aug 2021 #42
bluecollar2 Aug 2021 #44
David__77 Aug 2021 #48
Steelrolled Aug 2021 #50
panader0 Aug 2021 #54
Sunsky Aug 2021 #59
Sunsky Aug 2021 #57
manicdem Aug 2021 #64
AZProgressive Aug 2021 #69
Bettie Aug 2021 #75
BannonsLiver Aug 2021 #76
marie999 Aug 2021 #77
betsuni Aug 2021 #82
Skittles Aug 2021 #86
lunatica Aug 2021 #91

Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:12 AM

1. So infuriating!

Especially those of us who were protesting these wars from the very beginning. So many deaths - and for what?

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Response to Dr. Shepper (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 12:36 PM

38. In the end, only time.

We and our allies bought time, 19 years, for Afghanistan to have some semblance of civil society. Women to attend school, kites to be flown again, music to be played, Buddhist statues to not be destroyed.

It's not enough, I know.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:12 AM

2. At the time, Afghanistan made a lot more sense than Iraq. But OCCUPYING a country is a mistake,

every time.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:43 AM

35. Yes I agree, most of the coalition countries

went into Afghanistan with the US to get rid of AL Qaeda and most of us (Canadian) pulled our troops out after several years because we were not there for a forever war, the mission was completed. We did not agree with the invasion of Iraq and did not participate. I think people are getting their countries and missions mixed up.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:13 AM

3. We all were for

going in and getting the men who planned 9/11 and were hiding there. Our mistake was letting them get away, and staying for 20 years with no real exit plan. Good in the beginning but awful now!

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Response to snowybirdie (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:33 AM

14. Yes, I was for it, or at least I wasn't against it.

I thought they were going to go in there and capture the bad guys. I thought they might have to drop some bombs, and they did, but things were really vague past that point. I didn't consider at the time how much time we would spend there. It really didn't cross my mind.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:17 AM

4. Yeah I think many are confusing Iraq with Afghanistan.

Iraq war started in 2003.. Afghanistan started in 2001. Most Americans agreed with Afghanistan war during the early years. The Iraq war was protested by millions even before it started.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:21 AM

7. nobodys confusing anything

Honestly Abe, that's just absurd.

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:27 AM

10. Anyone says they were against the war from the beginning.

Is either confused or they are part of a very tiny percentage of people against the war at that point. The vast majority agreed with it.

Here’s an example of the confusion..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15740478

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:32 AM

12. Nobody's confusing the Iraq war with the Afghanistan war

that's really preposterous.

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:36 AM

16. Did you see the link in my post.

That person was referring to protests in 2003. The Afghanistan war started in 2001. Those protests in 2003 were about Iraq. I was there.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:47 AM

20. Thats not confusion - those were anti war protests

Against the Bush war machine that was out of control. Nobody is confusing Iraq with Afghanistan - that's ludicrous.

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #20)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:54 AM

22. I was there.. the vast majority of protestors were about Iraq.

Afghanistan war at that point was seen as being incredibly successful. The Taliban had collapsed and US was already talking about ending major conflict and establishing new government with free elections and rebuilding the country. There wasn’t much negative news about Afghanistan at that point and few were against it.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #22)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:58 AM

23. I think we'll just have to chalk this up to a

"cool story bro" and leave it at that.

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #23)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:59 AM

24. LOL

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #24)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:29 AM

31. LOL

You present facts then get dismissed. Interesting to see on DU since that seems to be the tactic of another party.

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Response to SmittyWerben (Reply #31)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:30 AM

33. Indeed.

Thanks for the comment.

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Response to SmittyWerben (Reply #31)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 04:40 PM

73. Assertions rather than facts.

 

It's easy to confuse the two when our bias depends on doing so. Even easier when presented with anecdotal evidence.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 02:10 PM

52. We turned out in what numbers we could muster.

We were not at all confused, and I deeply resent your claiming that we were, as I resented those who pooh-poohed our serious concerns at the time. We just saw the writing on the wall. That would come to fruition later in the war on Iraq, when many more turned out to demonstrate, but again to no avail.

But yes, they were desolate demonstrations against the grain of public opinion while the US was consumed by the desire for revenge for 9/11. It's just one of those occasions over the past half-century or so where the ability to say "told you so" is no consolation.

The proposed invasion of Afghanistan prompted protests with mass demonstrations in the days leading up to the war's official launch on October 7, 2001, the continuations of the war in Afghanistan has lead many to further protest and voice their opposition to hostilities.

On September 29, 2001, as many as 20,000 people demonstrated in Washington, D.C., United States, denouncing the impending United States invasion of Afghanistan. The protests were organized by the recently formed A.N.S.W.E.R. coalition. Thousands gathered at Meridian Hill Park (Malcolm X Park) and marched downtown, while elsewhere members of the Anti-Capitalist Convergence clashed briefly with police on their way to Edward R. Murrow Park, across from the headquarters of the World Bank and the IMF. Both groups of marchers converged on a rally at the Freedom Plaza.

In San Francisco almost 10,000 people converged on a park in San Francisco's Mission District to denounce the Bush administration's plans for military intervention in Afghanistan.

In Los Angeles roughly 2,500 protesters marched through the streets of Westwood.

In New York City 3,000 to 5,000 people took part in a peace march at Union Square.
...
In Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom, around 1,500 people gathered in George Square for a rally against the military action in Afghanistan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_war_in_Afghanistan


I was part of the Glasgow demonstration.

Your questions downthread "... no need to go after Bin laden? Just let him go and hope he behaves and no more 9/11’s?" echo the ridicule we faced all too often at the time. After a few decades of it, it's water off a duck's back. Bin Laden was not killed or captured as a result of the military action. The fact there have been "no more 9/11's" is a matter of good fortune.

Your trumpeted "success" of the early Afghanistan years encouraged the Bush II administration and the PNAC to their follies in Iraq. That success looks pretty hollow now, huh?

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Response to Emrys (Reply #52)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 03:16 PM

60. I know there were some people against the war initially but the vast majority were not.

If you believe the polling at the time it was 90+ percent approval. I agreed with it at the time and still think it was the right decision based on the situation. Clearly staying there 20 years was a mistake but few thought that would happen back then.

Also, one could argue flushing Bin laden out of Afghanistan into Pakistan ultimately helped find and kill him. So just that could be a justification for the war.

Also, there were early success stories out of Afghanistan. The Taliban were forced out. There were elections. Women rights restored. Reconstruction started. Of course it all fell apart when the Taliban regained strength and the Afghans themselves didnt fight back.

I still think many are not remembering how they felt back then. Clearly you and those who protested with you are an exception.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #60)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 04:11 PM

65. I think you're reaching with this guff about "flushing out bin Laden"

as a post-justification for the Bush regime/PNAC's opportunistic actions.

The military action in Afghanistan began in 2001. Bin Laden was ultimately killed in 2011.

That's a heckuva long flush!

It's almost as if there was little interest in bin Laden's whereabouts and survival in the intervening years. A cynic might say that's because he'd served his purpose and was of no further interest or use.

We were a tiny percentage as an opposition. We knew we were banging our heads against a brick wall at the time, but we still turned out and argued vociferously against the tactics adopted, the ignoring of Saudi Arabians' roles in the 9/11 attacks, and the total lack of an exit strategy beyond "ach, it'll all work out" (that last argument would be reprised for Iraq not long after).

"The vast majority agreed with it" was what we were up against. Vast majorities have been in favour of all sorts of things throughout history. Some of them have led to wrongs we're struggling to right to this day.

Anyway, as some replies under the OP show, quite a few who were in favour of some sort of action against al Qaeda (conflated with Afghanistan) were not necessarily in favour of the form of action that was taken.

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Response to Emrys (Reply #65)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 04:18 PM

66. He was flushed out of Afghanistan months after the invasion. That is a fact not guff.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-14190032

If he had not been "flushed" out he would likely have remained in his well protected Tora Bora cave complex in Afghanistan.

Yeah it took a long time to finally get him but flushing him out of his cave likely helped.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #66)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 04:36 PM

71. As a justification for what was done by the Bush regime/PNAC, it IS guff.

"Flushing him out" as was done just meant he was able to find safe harbour elsewhere, and almost certainly better access to communications and a degree of free movement - which it's notable he didn't put to more destructive purpose (for which we should all be thankful).

The fact he didn't is not because of the "success" of the adventurism in Afghanistan. Within a couple of years all the focus was on Saddam and Iraq as the PNAC steamrollered on, as many of we demonstrators had feared, and bin Laden just conveniently disappeared.

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Response to Emrys (Reply #71)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 04:42 PM

74. My only argument for justification is for the initial invasion of Afghanistan.

As the vast majority of Americans agreed with as well. There were legitimate reasons to invade regardless of who was president. The entire 20 year war was clearly a mistake.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #74)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 05:15 PM

78. You talked about "confusion" earlier.

Now you're sounding as confused as those braggarts who assured us that "shock and awe" was all that was required in modern warfare in the Middle East and there was no need to commit feet on the ground in significant numbers for extended periods.

That was Rumsfeld's doctrine. It allowed bin Laden to escape when he wasn't killed in the initial strikes, just as porous borders became a treacherous bidirectional problem in Iraq later.

There were arguably grounds for seeking out, and killing if necessary, bin Laden (and his associates/allies, unless the idea is he was a one-man army).

That did not require invading and taking control over the whole of Afghanistan. The subsequent failure of nation-building had happened often enough in the past that it should have been utterly predictable, along with the dangers of becoming entrenched in yet another unwinnable ground war, which America should know all about.

But a different course of action wouldn't have served the PNAC's agenda. The "legitimate reasons" were a smokescreen for it.

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Response to Emrys (Reply #78)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 05:41 PM

79. You are confused about my comments.

My simple point is that there were clear justifications for invading Afghanistan and most of America agreed with it.. including the vast majority of Democrats. Denying that now is like reinventing history.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #79)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 05:51 PM

80. I don't think so.

I'm pointing out there was arguably justification for some action, but you keep claiming that invasion was justified, and that seems to be the beginning and end of it for you.

I'm then pointing out the problems with invading a country on a grand scale and half-heartedly trying to refashion it without devoting the vast resources that would be necessary even if success was possible.

Invading's the easy part. It seldom stops there (which is why folks like me keep banging on about exit strategies whenever the latest invasion or war with our countries' involvement becomes a prospect). Certainly not in historical flashpoints like Afghanistan. It has knock-on effects, mission creep, the sunk cost fallacy comes into play. And before you know it, 20 years have passed.

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Response to Emrys (Reply #80)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 05:57 PM

81. Let me explain.

There was a serious sense of urgency as we thought there might be more 9/11's in the planning stages. Can you imagine the outcry if we didnt go after Bin laden quickly and forcefully and then another terror event happened?

No one was thinking 10 or 20 years ahead. That was not part of the decision making and rightly so. Action had to be taken immediately.

Furthermore we could have left at any point years later but no one had guts to do it until Joe Biden.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #81)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 06:22 PM

83. That sense of urgency didn't stretch to tackling the country that actually supplied

most of the terrorists involved in 9/11 and much of bin Laden's funding. That wasn't Afghanistan.

"Going after" bin Laden ended up being purely performative - I'm sure it looked impressive on TV. Then it went on the back burner for 10 years.

So by your logic, where was the outcry when the seriously urgent quick and forceful immediate attempt to bomb bin Laden out of existence failed miserably?

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Response to Emrys (Reply #83)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 06:42 PM

84. That's another topic that isnt directly relevant to the issue being discussed.

Im done. Ciao.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #84)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 06:44 PM

85. It's actually the very root of the issue. n/t

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 12:48 PM

41. Nope. Many of us remembered the 9-year quagmire that was the Soviet-Afghan War.

We heard and read all about the MASSIVE death and destruction on both sides, all for nothing. We saw it contribute to the collapse of the USSR. All for nothing. We knew the waste of blood and treasure would be inevitable for us, too. And, so it was.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #41)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 12:56 PM

43. So no need to go after Bin laden?

Just let him go and hope he behaves and no more 9/11’s?

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #43)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 01:01 PM

45. Where did I say that?

Remind me where Bin Laden was captured and killed, and how that was done. (Hint: Not in Afghanistan. Not with an entire army's worth of troops.) Not to mention that he has been dead for years. So, why the fuck were we still there all these years later????

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #45)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 01:06 PM

46. The question being discussed is were you against the war from the beginning.

Based on most intelligence reports Bin laden was still in Afghanistan when the war first started. He escaped at some point to Pakistan.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #46)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 01:32 PM

47. Yes, I know what the question was.

Some of us just don't believe that starting a war in that hellhole was the way to go about getting him. And, it turns out, that's not how they got him--not even after 10 years of being there.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #47)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 03:22 PM

61. Perhaps you are right but at the time most Americans wanted to get him and get him quickly.

There was a serious sense of urgency as we thought there might be more 9/11's in the planning stages. Can you imagine the outcry if we didnt go after him quickly and forcefully and then another terror event happened?

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #61)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 03:27 PM

62. Most Americans would have been fine if he was gotten the way they got him.

Without all the bloodshed and looting of our treasury. They were whipped up into wanting a war with a bunch of lies, just like they were with Iraq. Lots of people wanted us to nuke the place, too. Just because lots of people want something, it doesn't make it right.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #62)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 03:30 PM

63. What "lies"??

Bin laden was there. The Taliban did harbor him. There were AQ training camps in Afghanistan.

Where were the lies??

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #63)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 04:18 PM

67. They lied about knowing what they were doing there.

They had no fucking idea what they were getting us into, while pretending otherwise:

“We were devoid of a fundamental understanding of Afghanistan — we didn’t know what we were doing,” Douglas Lute, a three-star Army general who served as the White House’s Afghan war czar during the Bush and Obama administrations, told government interviewers in 2015. He added: “What are we trying to do here? We didn’t have the foggiest notion of what we were undertaking.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #67)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 04:21 PM

68. That had nothing to do with convincing the American people of the justification for the war.

The justification was based on the three things I posted before:

-- Bin laden was there.
-- The Taliban did harbor him.
-- There were AQ training camps in Afghanistan.

That was enough for me and most other Americans.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #68)


Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #70)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 04:37 PM

72. I was responding to your mistaken assertions.

I still think many are not remembering clearly how they felt back then. That assertion remains.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #41)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 01:56 PM

51. 9/11 had happened and revenge had to be taken.

 

There was no real political choice but to go into Afghanistan and kill some people. And it went reasonably well at the start. But then the mission creep started.

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Response to Steelrolled (Reply #51)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 02:15 PM

53. There were multiple choices.

Including intelligence-gathering and surgical strikes. Which is what wound up getting Bin Laden--TEN fucking years later. Bush chose poorly.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #53)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 02:22 PM

55. There might have been other military options.

 

But I remember that time very clearly, and the public wanted boots on the ground kicking ass. And that is what they got, and as I remember it went much better than predicted (for a while).

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Response to Steelrolled (Reply #55)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 02:27 PM

56. It' wasn't the only choice. Just the most politically expedient one.

And, the most gutless one. Also, "better than predicted" isn't saying much.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 02:40 PM

58. Yeah, the predictions were dire, that the US would be bogged down in

 

a quagmire from the start. Turned out the first overt military action was several weeks after 9/11 and the Taliban government had collapsed before Thanksgiving (I think). And I believe there was a lot of help from the Afghanis (Northern Alliance). The quagmire came later.

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Response to Steelrolled (Reply #51)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 06:48 PM

88. WTF

um....NO

Bin Laden should have been targeted from the start - the rest was utter bullshit

IT WAS SAUDI ARABIA WHO FINANCED THE HIJACKERS, NOT AFGHANISTAN.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #88)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 07:56 PM

89. OBL and Al-Qaeda were targeted from the start.

 

They were in Afghanistan and the US military had people there within a couple weeks. Without 100% cooperation from the Taliban (an impossibility) the Afghanistan government would have to be toppled along the way. No one cared about the human rights of the Afghans or whether girls could go to school.

I remember the mood of people, and the desire for retribution, like it was yesterday. What was going to happen was not complicated and it was 100% predictable. The president was just the mouthpiece.

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Response to Steelrolled (Reply #89)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 08:03 PM

90. seemed to me like the focus shifted off of Bin Laden very quickly

and it utterly sickened me how many people went along with the insanity

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Response to Skittles (Reply #90)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 08:14 PM

92. Yeah, the fact that we couldn't find and kill OBL was

 

hurting Bush politically, and so he tried to deemphasize it publicly. But now we know it was still a super high priority objective internally.

I recently heard about a survey about the atomic bomb and Japan, taken around that time. About 25% of Americans wished we could have dropped many more. There was some of that emotion going on when it came to Afghanistan in 2001/2002.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 06:47 PM

87. NOT ME

I always knew it was fool's errand.....I watched in dismay as America rallied around that warmongering piece of SHIT Dubya.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:19 AM

5. 9/11 was Saudi's. That's who we should have bombed

And sent black ops troops to find Bin Laden

Which is what we did to kill him.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:34 AM

15. That's so true. It was Saudi Arabia that financed 9/11 and Al Qaeda. Bin Laden's dad

owned the largest construction company in Saudi Arabia, and was related to the royal family there. Saudi Arabia has been trying to destroy the US for generations...in spite of the oil companies insisting that they are our "allies". All lies.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:38 AM

17. There were some of us opposed to the Afghanistan invasion

Seeing as how most of those involved were from Saudi Arabia … including osama bin laden

Just because bin laden was holed up in Afghanistan, did not make all those people a part of 911

The bush/Cheney mob wanted war … see the PNAC papers … look at who signed them … they wanted Clinton to attack Iraq …

Folks try to conflate who was behind all of it …

The NYTs was rah rah-ing and every corporate news whore was creaming their jeans at the ratings that war would get them

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Response to UpInArms (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 01:51 PM

49. 👆 This. nt

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:15 AM

30. Ten years after we invaded Afghanistan.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:21 AM

6. Should have gone in, gotten the job done

And then left after a year or so.
A lesson to be learned for the future. It wouldn't surprise me if we have to do it again.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:21 AM

8. Well, to be fair, most did not know we'd be there for 20 years.

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Response to MoonRiver (Reply #8)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:25 AM

9. I just edited in a Gallup graph

Americans largely haven't been nearly so reflective over time as they are now claiming they were.

I just hate bandwagon revisionism. It's all over the place this weekend.

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Response to Sympthsical (Reply #9)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:48 AM

21. And it's especially bad among Repugs.

Apparently Keven McCarthy threw a real temper tantrum against Biden during the House briefing today. Like his side wasn't all over this situation!

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:28 AM

11. It will be the same with Trump

In a few years, no one will have ever supported him. At the end of WWII, you could not find a dozen Nazis in all of Germany...

After we are gone from Afghanistan, the Republicans will try to sponsor another attack to pin on the Afghan people in order to blame Biden for the withdrawal before the next election. Wait for it.

Perhaps the next time the Saudis attack us, we can make war on Canada or Mexico to save the enormous shipping cost of fighting on the other side of the world.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:33 AM

13. I supported the war with the Taliban, I did not support the war with Iraq, diverting troops and

supplies from Afghanistan to go to war with Iraq before we accomplished our objectives left us open to failure at
the outset, fuck bush* fuck cheney, fuck condoleeza, and I hope rumsfeld is in that special place in hell.

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Response to Shellback Squid (Reply #13)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:07 AM

28. +1

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:39 AM

18. I wanted this strictly as a police action going after a criminal.

Anything beyond that, unh unh.

That part of the world ain't no place for a regular army.

The minute Bush did that and expanded it. . .pfft!

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 10:43 AM

19. punishing the Taliban

had almost universal backing (U.S. and international). Occupation and 'nation building' also had strong support - for a while.

Revisionist history doesn't really help. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if the current "should never have been .." narrative is any more sound, or helpful. Monday morning quarterbacking is cheap and easy - foreign policy (and yes, every great country has to have one) a whole lot less so.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:01 AM

25. 20 years is so long a time that people

who were too young to follow it when it started now have opinions and others have forgotten.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:04 AM

26. This week I learned

that we should stay in Afghanistan to protect the rights of its women, but other countries with similar abuses aren’t worth mentioning

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:07 AM

27. I supported it

But only insofar as it was to get rid of Al-Queda and the Taliban Government that harbored them. But Bush fumbled and here we are 20 years later (!) with very little to show for it. Al-Queda is largely smashed and Bin Laden is long gone but we accomplished very little else.

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Response to Mad_Machine76 (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:29 AM

32. Our involvement in the Soviet-Afghan war and it's aftermath lead to the power vacuum that allowed

Taliban to originally take control of the country. It looks in the end we hav haven't gained much ground.

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Response to CentralMass (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:46 AM

36. I don't disagree

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:07 AM

29. I remember

when we first bombed them, I called my Mom, crying, asking why! I know I wrote letters to congress, etc., about this, telling them I did not want us there, and not a one of them listened.

I fear for anyone left there that will be "living" under Taliban rule. I fear and weep.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 11:32 AM

34. Compare the number of people claiming to have been at Woodstock or the Selma March

with the numbers of those who were actually there

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 12:27 PM

37. I begrudgingly supported going after Bin Laden but if I remember right, we sent in

special teams to Afghanistan to get him but then basically ended that mission to focus on Iraq. I think they needed more troops and didn't get them and Bin Laden escaped to Pakistan. That is when I remember thinking WTF and was against everything that came after.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 12:38 PM

39. Thanks for this post.

So much 20/20 hindsight and Binary Judgment on DU: "we should NEVER have been there", etc.

We had a damn good reason. 9/11 is a damn good reason.


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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #39)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 12:41 PM

40. +1

Agreed as did the vast majority of Americans back then when the war started.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 12:52 PM

42. Kind of like the Woodstock Festival.

So many people claim to have been there, if it were true, the size of the crowd would be in the millions. lol

Are you really surprised by this? I doubt it. The journos doing it are a disgrace.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 01:00 PM

44. I supported the initial attacks on the Taliban

For refusing to give up Bin Laden and providing safe haven for Al Qaeda.

We took our eye off the ball going after Iraq. We should have spent the money on Afghanistan and giving Pakistan a swift kick in the ass for aiding and abetting....

I feel for the people of Afghanistan. They are going to be tested.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 01:44 PM

48. Glad to be "six percenter."

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 01:52 PM

50. Thank you for reminding everyone.

 

There was high bipartisan support. 9/11 had just happened, and we were out for revenge.

And we fairly successful in getting rid of Al-Qaeda. When we finally killed OBL, we should have started the move out.

It would have been perfect timing for Obama but he didn't take advantage of it. Huge missed opportunity.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 02:18 PM

54. 15 of the hijackers were Saudi, 2 from the UAR, 1 from Lebanon and 1 from Egypt.

So let's invade Afghanistan! The reason was that the hijackers had trained there, perhaps with
Bin Laden, who the US supported when he was with the Mujahideen fighting the Soviets.
Don't forget, Mohammed Atta trained in Florida as well and a couple hijackers trained in Arizona
to learn how to fly. There are many parts of this story that have not been revealed.
Why did the US let Osama Bin Laden escape from Torah Bora?
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15737603
I must have been in the 12% that did not support going into Afghanistan.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #54)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 02:52 PM

59. Well said

Don't forget the Bin Laden family and other Saudi nationals were allowed the flee the country after 9-11.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 02:28 PM

57. I don't know about everyone

But I was against it. I have been very vocal about my opposition then and throughout the years. I didn't think we should harm innocent people because of the actions of their leaders. It would only further destabilize the region. Al-Qaeda attacked us on 9-11, not the Afghan people or the Taliban. But, I must say that I'm generally anti-war, so that may have shaped my point of view. Plus, I have been a longtime Randi Rhodes listener and she would talk about the tumultuous history of the region. I've been listening to leftwing talk radio since I was a teenager, and I remember many callers opposing the Afghan war, given its history.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 03:41 PM

64. necessary evil

Invading and occupying Afghanistan was needed to stop, or at least hold off, Al Qaeda. 9/11 wasn't the only Al Qaeda attack, they have been bombing and attacking American and other countries all of the world.

We're not seeing the results if we didn't invade. If we did airstrikes instead of invasion, it would have limited effects on the Taliban and Al Qaeda and they would be even more emboldened to attack cowardly Americans. The chart in the OP would be very different if they did a 2nd 9/11 scale attack.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 04:32 PM

69. I may have supported it at first

But I was only 15 when 9/11 happened. Looking back I prefer the peace and prosperity of the 90s.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 04:45 PM

75. When we went in, I thought

there was a goal and, well, a plan.

Seems that wasn't the case at all.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 04:53 PM

76. The entire affair is an excellent example of mission creep.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 05:04 PM

77. I have been against almost everything we have done since 1964.

I was against the war in Vietnam while I was in the army, I was against invading Grenada, I was against invading Afghanistan, and I was against invading Iraq. I was for Kuwait since we basically told Saddam it was okay if he invaded Kuwait.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 06:10 PM

82. I well remember Barbara Lee being the lone vote in Congress against authorization of military force

in Afghanistan.

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 06:46 PM

86. I was NOT among the 90% who rallied around Dubya

I KNEW he would use 9/11 as an excuse to start senseless wars

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Response to Sympthsical (Original post)

Sun Aug 15, 2021, 08:09 PM

91. Hundreds of thousands of us demonstrated against it in San Francisco

We also demonstrated against the Iraq war in San Francisco.

I remember demonstrations all over the US and the world. Big ones.

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