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MaryMagdaline

(6,849 posts)
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:11 AM Aug 2021

Afghanistan pull out was always going to be a disaster

It had to be done. Kudos to Biden for having the guts to do it. The “timing” was never going to be right. Better to do it early in his administration and be done with it.

China has built massive infrastructure by avoiding stupid wars. We need to to do the same and rebuild America.

I stand by Biden.

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Afghanistan pull out was always going to be a disaster (Original Post) MaryMagdaline Aug 2021 OP
I stand with Biden katmondoo Aug 2021 #1
The disaster was the evacuation, not the pull out. The evacuation should have been done first JohnSJ Aug 2021 #2
That certainly makes sense on its face and I have thought about it a lot. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #5
Then it wasn't planed properly. Rachel Maddow had been warning about the inaction in getting JohnSJ Aug 2021 #8
Once the locals sensed withdrawal, the panic would set in. MaryMagdaline Aug 2021 #10
Just the fact that we had to send troops back in should tell you it was a blunder. JohnSJ Aug 2021 #16
This. Treefrog Aug 2021 #14
This failure of operational planning can't be waved away so simply Devil Child Aug 2021 #3
In the NY Time article you can just hear the blame from DoD and State, each at the other greenjar_01 Aug 2021 #6
A shit show becoming a shit storm Devil Child Aug 2021 #9
100%. Thats what alot of people on this board dont get dsp3000 Aug 2021 #12
That pretty much sums it up. It would have been better if withdrawal had been announced, Hoyt Aug 2021 #20
Hoyt, i can't describe the weird sinking feeling inside Devil Child Aug 2021 #21
Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan Klaralven Aug 2021 #4
Never should have abandoned Bagram AB Devil Child Aug 2021 #7
I agree, but we should never put the Army where the Marines can't evacuate them to ships. Klaralven Aug 2021 #11
Also agree. Infrastructure for a massive air-bridge effort was clearly lacking Devil Child Aug 2021 #13
The problem is how do you "retract" an air bridge? Klaralven Aug 2021 #18
That's why I was so flabbergasted by the abandonment of Bagram Devil Child Aug 2021 #19
Thank you for this input MaryMagdaline Aug 2021 #24
I stand with Biden bdamomma Aug 2021 #15
Of course we stand with Biden, that isn't the issue JohnSJ Aug 2021 #17
I stand with the United States of America, damn it! hamsterjill Aug 2021 #23
Yep. Maybe the US should stop trying to control the world. captain queeg Aug 2021 #22
Wait until the dead bodies start hitting the news ripcord Aug 2021 #25
Yes they will. The very reason our past presidents continued to throw good money after bad. MaryMagdaline Aug 2021 #26
Get 'em out, bring 'em home. Wingus Dingus Aug 2021 #27

JohnSJ

(92,029 posts)
2. The disaster was the evacuation, not the pull out. The evacuation should have been done first
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:18 AM
Aug 2021

before the withdrawal

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,707 posts)
5. That certainly makes sense on its face and I have thought about it a lot.
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:33 AM
Aug 2021

But the moment we started evacuating our embassy panic would have ensued.

JohnSJ

(92,029 posts)
8. Then it wasn't planed properly. Rachel Maddow had been warning about the inaction in getting
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:40 AM
Aug 2021

our allies and people out before our withdrawal weeks before.

If the evacuation wasn't a mistake we would not be sending troops back in their to try and safeguard the evacuation.


MaryMagdaline

(6,849 posts)
10. Once the locals sensed withdrawal, the panic would set in.
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:44 AM
Aug 2021

Chaos was inevitable. Rachel Maddow and the others are dreaming. The only conceivable way this was going to go smoothly would be if the local Afghanis were themselves capable of protecting the rear. They obviously have no will to fight the Taliban, in which case, there never was a chance of a smooth withdrawal.

JohnSJ

(92,029 posts)
16. Just the fact that we had to send troops back in should tell you it was a blunder.
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 10:01 AM
Aug 2021

When you have people from the administration saying we had no idea the Taliban would move so quickly, that is a very bad assessment of the situation

Before the Taliban even started their advance, the evacuations should have begin



 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
3. This failure of operational planning can't be waved away so simply
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:20 AM
Aug 2021

Biden was correct in withdrawal, but the implementation of the withdrawal is a total failure.

Pentagon heads need to roll.

 

greenjar_01

(6,477 posts)
6. In the NY Time article you can just hear the blame from DoD and State, each at the other
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:37 AM
Aug 2021

DoD insisting that they described this scenario to clueless State people, State going with a damned if you do, damned if you don't argument in which evacuating the embassy first would have led to immediate collapse of the Afghan Army rather than the reverse.

What a shit show.

The people here pretending that this isn't on the current admin are truly living in a fantasy world as vivid as the rosy scenarios of Afghan Army strength.

 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
9. A shit show becoming a shit storm
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:43 AM
Aug 2021

This disaster is producing very interesting attempts at rationalization and coping with what’s happening.

Appreciate your posts greenjar_01.

dsp3000

(475 posts)
12. 100%. Thats what alot of people on this board dont get
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:47 AM
Aug 2021

It didnt have to be this disastrous. This is worse than vietnam

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
20. That pretty much sums it up. It would have been better if withdrawal had been announced,
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 10:18 AM
Aug 2021

with caution that Taliban or others might try to take advantage of troop drawdown and, if that occurred, the timeline would be adjusted and/or additional troops would called to stop fighting and defend Afghan citizens.

People chasing planes to escape is not a good optic.

 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
21. Hoyt, i can't describe the weird sinking feeling inside
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 10:25 AM
Aug 2021

Watching our cargo planes pushing through the crowd on take off. Seeing twitter reports of corpses that supposedly fell from the sky splattered on rooftops in the flightpath.

Horrible optics in a profound historical moment.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
4. Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:31 AM
Aug 2021
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_withdrawal_from_Afghanistan

Of course, they had the advantage of being able to properly stage a withdrawal through the northern land border.
 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
13. Also agree. Infrastructure for a massive air-bridge effort was clearly lacking
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:50 AM
Aug 2021

We’ve come up with a couple logical ideas, time to apply for pentagon jobs?

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
18. The problem is how do you "retract" an air bridge?
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 10:08 AM
Aug 2021

You can "extend" an air bridge by dropping paratroops to seize an airport. This works because you can choose a weakly defended airport and have the advantage of surprise. The defenders have the disadvantage of having to defend all the airports, while the attackers can concentrate forces on one.

However, once you have completed your operation, how do you evacuate the last personnel given that they are under attack? In this case the enemy can mass his forces against your last forces on the ground.

In the case of evacuating a beach, you can use naval bombardment and naval air power to cover the last units off the beach. They can't be totally protected, but the Navy can do a better job.

Afghanistan, being landlocked, was never going to end well.

 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
19. That's why I was so flabbergasted by the abandonment of Bagram
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 10:16 AM
Aug 2021

It seemed the only fortress like airbase in the country capable of filling the needs for a massive airlift.

Getting the last deployed detachment out? That’s above my pay grade but I envision overlapping supporting elements being able to cover the last flight. I just play war games made of cardboard and plastic.

Thanks for your reply and food for thought Klaralven.

Edited to add: after some thought, the only other feasible “retract” for the air bridge would’ve been an armed convoy exiting towards a friendly border. One of the other ‘Stans like the Soviets did. But again these are massive undertakings.

hamsterjill

(15,217 posts)
23. I stand with the United States of America, damn it!
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 10:30 AM
Aug 2021

Joe is the very best at foreign policy. I give him that and I await his full and complete explanation of his thinking on this issue. So far, silence.

But we are still the United States of America. Fuck Donald Trump. Fuck Greg Abbott. Fuck the Republicans. They don’t understand honor.

But Dems need to get control of this situation and start messaging it properly. The USA must come back from the Trump fiasco. Biden has even remarked about this in prior speeches. And the USA deals in honor. In giving its word. And we need to get those interpreters and other allies OUT. Or else we are going to look like assholes to the rest of the world.

captain queeg

(10,070 posts)
22. Yep. Maybe the US should stop trying to control the world.
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 10:27 AM
Aug 2021

All these international corporations that the US is always supporting rely on our military and then pay no taxes. Fuck em.

ripcord

(5,188 posts)
25. Wait until the dead bodies start hitting the news
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 10:34 AM
Aug 2021

This has all the makings to be a disaster and the media is going to flood us with graphic images. Should any of those images be of Afghans who worked with the U.S. the pundits will draw their knives.

MaryMagdaline

(6,849 posts)
26. Yes they will. The very reason our past presidents continued to throw good money after bad.
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 10:56 AM
Aug 2021

We will pay a huge price in blood and honor. And politics. Every President was warned about this. There were no good plans.

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