What Americans never understood or were never told about Afghanistan

[DVRacer]

I once upon a time was a member of the IC long since removed. I assist veterans like myself in navigating the VA for benefits many from Afghanistan.
The lie that has been and is still being told is there is a difference between the Taliban, ISIS and Al Queda. To put it in perspective that’s like saying there is a difference between the Proud Boys, KKK and 3%ers. The goals by all of them is the same to establish a Caliphate.

When we pushed the active fighters to Pakistan we see lines on a map and thought we were accomplishing something. We see distinctions between the groups that fundamentally don’t exist. We trained and gave arms to men that had/have no problem deceiving those that were intentionally ignorant about allegiances. The Afghan Army was always a paper army as long as we kept paying them. Were there some that had our interests in mind sure but never the majority and those tended to die in the fighting.

The Taliban and AQ/ISIS never really left they just changed uniform to appease us and wait knowing we would eventually leave. Our leaders never understood who they were dealing with. The reason everything seemed to fall so fast was it was never real in the first place. Once we “left” and stopped paying a huge chunk of the army just switched back into their old uniform now armed with all the guns and equipment we trained them with.

Afghanistan wasn’t lost it was never real to begin with and once you understand that everything else makes sense.

[Rorey]

1. Thank you for that insight NT

[panader0]

2. K and R

[sboatcar]

3. This is what I've always thought

the war in Afghanistan was lost before the first boots on the ground there.

[Rebl2]

9. Yep

Russia told us and so did George Bush the older.

[alfredo]

4. And Afghanistan is just a collection of tribes, not a unified nation.

Karzai was the mayor of Kabul, not the president of Afghanistan.

[GB_RN]

5. This Has Always Been My Understanding

Afghanistan is nothing more than lines in a map that holds a collection of disparate tribes. There are a few “modern” cities, but outside of those areas, it’s all medieval times/dark ages territory.

[alfredo]

12. TKS

[luvtheGWN]

6. Yes, a nation of tribes.

They are uninterested in Afghanistan as a country. Their only allegiance is to their tribe and their religion.

But with all the "brains" and intelligence gathering in the US, it stymies me as to how this wasn't recognized at the outset. It's not as if the US was the first country to wage war in that mountainous country.

I'm sorry that the MSM is faulting Biden for the extremely messy withdrawal. How about going back a few Presidents and laying some blame there?

[alfredo]

13. They are old news, Biden is right there.

[dianaredwing]

22. Its hard to make a lot of money

if everyone thinks you are fighting a bunch of disorganized tribes. One masterful evil demands the big bucks.

[underpants]

7. Thank you.

As many people have noted, no one ever changed Afghanistan. No one including those with no restrictions on anything they wanted to do.

[Jetheels]

8. Thanks, no wonder I could never figure out what the difference was between the three of them.

[JaneQPublic]

10. "You have the watches, but we have the time."

That was a quote from a Taliban fighter speaking to an American to explain their strategy. It proves what you're saying: That they were playing the long game from the beginning.

Your OP also validates what I've been saying: That it was all a facade. The Afghan National Army was a facade; The Afghan government was a facade. Without US troops and government officials to work the levers and pretend it was all real, it was all just play-acting to be a real country.

[speak easy]

11. Unlike ISIS and Al Queda, I do not see the Taliban as a homogenous group.

I have no doubt Mullah Omar ran an authoritarian operation, but after twenty years of conflict the 'Taliban' is now more like a confederation of local groups and warlords who opposed that they regarded as a parasitic kleptocracy, imposed and subservient to the west.

[alfredo]

14. A good imposed on another becomes an evil

[speak easy]

15. We tried to impose a democratic apparatus on a tribal society that had no history

of representative government.

[alfredo]

30. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I'm sure I can dig up some more ways of saying we fucked up royally

[Javaman]

16. As I wrote in another thread...

We were never in charge there.

we gave cover to the lie.

a rebel army's mission isn't to win, but not to lose.

they did not lose and just waited us out.

[Lonestarblue]

18. Here's a veteran's take on Afghanistan that's really worth reading.

Here’s an excerpt that I think reflects a lot of the conflict that veterans especially are feeling.

“The voices from the past 20 years who prodded us forward into battle return to the evening news to sell us on staying. “It’s not too late,” the former generals, secretaries and ambassadors say. “More troops can hold the line. Victory is just around the corner.”

But the speed of the Taliban’s advance makes clear that this outcome was always inevitable. The enemy had no reason to negotiate, and no reputation for restraint. The only question before President Biden was how many American soldiers should die before it happened. But if leaving now was the right decision for America, it is a catastrophe for the Afghan people whom we have betrayed.

The Afghans are forced back into living under religious tyranny, an existence made all the more painful by their brief experience with freedom. Now they see the light from the far end of a dark tunnel. The school doors will close for girls and the boys will return to their religious studies. For them, the arc of the moral universe will bend backward and break.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/opinion/afghanistan-war-veteran.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

[Justice matters.]

29. The Afghan tribes and warlords never asked us to invade them "for their good"...

Just like they never asked the former USSR to do the same.

Yes, the Taliban (the local version of the Christaliban here) were hosting the mastermind of Saudi terrorists attacking western interests over and over again (in retaliation to the western interests' never-ending support of the Arab Palestinian rip-offs up to the Gulf war of 1991) so the "mission" should have always just focussed on catching that mastermind, then to LEAVE.

[mopinko]

36. the warlords invaded with us. the northern alliance

was a bunch of old warlords who agreed to help us attack the taliban.

[nancy1942]

17. Thanks for this insight.

for Seems to explain the situation clearly. A pity it isn't required reading for all.

[SheltieLover]

19. Nothing but a qpuke slush fund at the expense of taxpayers

And our military!

[relayerbob]

20. 100% agree

Losing suggests there were two sides.

[Hekate]

21. KnR

[housecat]

23. so true. thank you

[UTUSN]

24. K&R. What is "IC", please/thanks.

[DVRacer]

25. Intelligence Community

[Hortensis]

26. The Taliban shares interests and ideology with AQ, and ISIS, but is not the same.

The Taliban established and now is reestablishing its Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan to impose its fundamentalist religion and ultrastrict sharia law on all of Afghanistan. It's all about Afghanistan (a very big difference from the others), and at least in the past it was not engaged in terrorism in other nations. Helping Al-Qaeda terrorists hide after 9/11 lead to U.S. invasion.

Al-Qaeda was founded by Bin Laden to fight corrupt Islamic regimes and foreigners in Islamic lands, such as the U.S., using asymmetrical/terrorist warfare.

ISIS is an end-times cult that engages in asymmetrical/terrorist warfare; their holy duty is to bring on the final battle that of course those fighting for their god will win.

[Evolve Dammit]

27. "Our leaders never understood..." I think that is the take-away for 20 years of blood and treasure.

[Locrian]

33. I think some of our leaders

Knew EXACTLY what was happening: billions of dollars being spend on defense contracts on a perpetual, doomed to failure.
The failure was a feature, not a bug - since it kept the money flowing, which also kept campaign money flowing, and it gave a "scary" booggie man to use for elections. win. win. win.

Other leaders (dems) - I dont know - trusted the pentagon, the Afghan gov, not sure if they were caught between a rock and hard place.

Kudos to Biden for finally puling the plug.

[Evolve Dammit]

38. good points

[crickets]

28. K&R for the post and the discussion.

[nvme]

31. USSR TRIED IT

We could invade any country and even conquer it, but we will never be able to hold a country like Afghanistan. They will adapt to us like we did to England. It is their nation.
The Soviet Union learned in 10 years what took us 20. We may have had a chance to improve it but once we invaded Iraq, we lost all moral authority. Every nation on the planet knew the Iraq premise to invade was BS.

[quakerboy]

32. question

How should this information inform us regarding Pakistan?

[joetheman]

34. Some of us knew that back in 2003. nt

[mopinko]

35. the thing is- they did know this. we used it when we invaded.

'the northern alliance' was a bunch of warlords, doing our bidding, selling out their enemies, bribing their friends, and all knowing they would be gone eventually.

we may have forgotten that, but they never did.

[Willis88]

37. Thanks for this insight