Biden was my first choice as POTUS from the beninning.

[Yorkie Mom]

I thought he was the right person for the job at the time.

I still believe this, but I can admit he fucked up this exit in Afghanistan. He is the president who decided how this would go down, and he screwed it up.

I refuse to hide my head in the sand and pretend otherwise. Yeah, this hurts.

[BlueLucy]

1. Trump gutted the State Dept and the Pentagon

Trump left Biden a mess with gutted agencies but yes... he should have taken that into consideration in his decision.

[reality1]

2. No he didn't

What did he screw up? I'm here let's debate.

[jrthin]

4. +1

[JohnSJ]

19. When the Afghan government told the U.S. NOT to evacuate anyone because it would create

panic, and was premature, and that the Afghan Army would be able to hold the Taliban in check, what should we have done?

Trump had drawn our troop level down to 2500 troops remaining. We would have needed to add a significant number of more troops if we wanted to evacuate every large area of those eligible for evacuation.

From my understanding there was something like 30000 people that were eligible for evacuation.

Why did the Afghan Government tell us not to start evacuating people, and that the Afghan Army could hold the Taliban in check?

[rockfordfile]

43. Afghan government is corrupt just like republicans

[JohnSJ]

53. Exactly

[Demsrule86]

55. [phone]

And this is why we can't have nice things...we need to support Democrats period.

[luv2fly]

3. There wouldn't have been a need for a "fucked up" exit...

... if the Afghan army had actually done what they were trained to do. Some of them fought valiantly, it appears the vast majority laid down their arms and gave up.

Biden cannot be blamed for that.

[gab13by13]

7. The war lords put up more resistance

than the army.

[comradebillyboy]

5. Biden wasn't my first choice but I'm very

pleased with the job he's doing as President. In a week or two the beltway press will move on to some other shiny object.

As more unvaccinated folks get sick or die more and more people will get vaccinated. By the end of the year Biden will declare victory over covid and his infrastructure packages will be generating lots of jobs.

[gab13by13]

6. I agree the buck stops with the CIC

but he did get bad intelligence from General Milley, I believe.

It is funny for me because I get jacked here for being too progressive, but back in 2008 I voted for the moderate candidate Joe Biden in the Pa. primary instead of the rookie progressive Barack Obama. Our union endorsed Joe.

I did vote for Obama in the general, of course.

What's bad about Afghanistan is that it is going to control the narrative for a long time. We need some bombshells to drop to switch the narrative back.

[reality1]

10. What did he do wrong, what should have been done differently

The "narrative" should be shaped in favor of Biden. Sincerely what did he do wrong and what should he have done differently?

This seems like as natural, bloodless and orderly of a ending as could be expected.

[Yorkie Mom]

13. I'm very progressive as well and voted for the moderate

because I thought he was the one for the job.

Joe chose the people around him to listen to (whether he took their advice or not).

I believe you are right that this will control the narrative for a long time. This can't be undone.

What Biden knew

... snip

Biden's "decision to bring home U.S. troops ... was made against the recommendations of his top military generals and many diplomats, who warned that a hasty withdrawal would undermine security in Afghanistan, several administration and defense officials said."

https://www.axios.com/biden-afghanistan-intelligence-warnings-taliban-5217bb21-b168-4f28-99a9-465f42fc8960.html

[JohnSJ]

22. I believe General Milley will be speaking today, and taking questions

[pwb]

8. I don't feel that way.

I know the history. The war is over and that is good.

[Yorkie Mom]

15. Rose colored glasses are beautiful.

I wish I could wear them.

[pwb]

20. Have you been to War?

You know all about it? You seem to wear shades not glasses.

[rockfordfile]

45. So you supported the lies from Bushco and fox news over the years?

President Biden got us out of a pos problem created by the gop. Majority of Americans support the President.

[Scrivener7]

27. This.

[Baked Potato]

9. Yeah, they should blown kisses to us on the way out.

How dare Joe Biden not provide better optics so we can cheer on the hasty retrograde with stars in our eyes.

[dameatball]

11. I believe history is going to be the judge, as it always is. I agree that the withdrawal seems to

have been clumsy, possibly even bungled, to the seeming delight of right wing and even mainstream media. What remains to be seen is how we handle the issue of those wanting to escape now, as well as how much those coming to power in Afghanistan can be trusted. After regret there can also be hope. The Malcolm Nance segment on Stephanie Miller this morning was very interesting if you can find it. I'm not sure if it is on the website yet or not.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Regardless of how we feel we're getting lambasted in the press.

Hopefully, it passes.

[Yorkie Mom]

14. Yes, we are.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. I'm not going to pile on Joe.

When these things crop up the first question I ask myself is if this is good for the Democratic party as the Democratic party is the only thing that stands between us and the American Taliban, i.e. the Republican party.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. My paramount concern is the welfare of the Democratic party.

I also care about the welfare of the women and people who worked with us in Afghanistan

[JohnSJ]

23. and the only thing the Biden administration is focused on is evacuating those that need to be

evacuated, and let the media and others play the blame game

[rockfordfile]

61. I could careless

But I do remember the lies they pushed for bushco that got us into this. Afghanistan I think is a example of history repeating itself. Going into a country based on lies and bs just to prop up. The PNAC comes to mind. The warnings were there.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. I care if it cost us politically

We are one presidential election away from losing our freedom

[reality1]

16. sky is NOT falling

While MSM reports sky is falling and Dems are not have POTUS back for doing well in an effed up situation our troops are getting people out in an orderly fashion.

Link to tweet

?s=20

Now is the time to support our troops and POTUS, they're both drawing this thing down in a rather orderly bloodless fashion. Why are people here turning on Joe? I haven't seen specific things people think he should of done differently. Just general disappointment.

[Yorkie Mom]

24. I don't think people are "turning on Joe."

I think some of us are disappointed in how this played out. I still support Joe, but can admit he made a mess of this.

It doesn't sound like Speaker Pelosi is exactly super happy, either. She could have defended Joe here but did not.

Speaker Pelosi, when asked about a congressional investigation into the Afghanistan withdrawal, said the House Foreign Affairs committee will hold a hearing next week

Link to tweet

[reality1]

34. I hope so

I would love to see an investigation into Doha

1. Among the 5k enemy combatants(Taliban) that Trump let free only to return the battlefield, how many were know killers of U.S. troops?

2. Why did he draw down the troops to such a level to put out troops in a dangerous defensive position?

3. What other agreements did Trump have with Taliban that we didn't know about?

Hopefully Nancy starts there.

[Demsrule86]

57. believe this post is a kind of 'turning on' Biden. We need to support our leaders...

DFB said before he posts stuff, he thinks about is this good for Democrats. This OP is not good for Democrats nor Democratic leaders IMO.

[Baked Potato]

72. Strongly agree. Nt

[Yorkie Mom]

73. I still support Joe Biden.

However, I will not say/think everything he does is right/great. He screwed this one up. I see a lot of people trying to justify it somehow or blame the press because they are saying things they don't like to hear. Yeah, it hurts, but I will not blindly follow a politician the way many Republicans do.

How do you suggest we (or I) deal with this? Sweep it under the rug? Don't mention it? Pretend it doesn't exist? It sucks, and we may pay for it politically in the next election.

[treestar]

66. I doubt this could be done at all without a "mess"

We don't need to let the pundits influence us that it is a "mess" as if a thing like this has a good way to be done. When has that ever happened?

[Aristus]

18. I don't think the failure of a 20-year, 2 trillion dollar attempt at ill-advised nation-building

can be laid at President Biden's door. Unless someone can convince me that we would have been successful if we had waited 40 years and spent 4 trillion dollars.

Or 60 years and 6 trillion dollars.

And so, ad infinitum…

The computer in WarGames had it right: the best way to win is not to play.

This was screwed up from the very beginning in 2001. Bush/Cheney wanted a big, showy, splashy war on which to run their re-election campaign. They pointlessly, stupidly, chose the Graveyard of Empires, blockheadedly refusing to understand that Afghanistan is called that for a reason...

[Yorkie Mom]

25. I'll agree with that.

I'd never blame Biden for everything that went wrong since 2001, but he was the decider in chief of the exit strategy.

[GoodRaisin]

21. Just curious of your opinion what he should have done. nt

[Yorkie Mom]

26. Maybe have a plan to

protect/secure the airport.

Maybe have a plan for what to do with thousands of AMCITS left stranded in Afghanistan.

Link to tweet

Taliban Block Routes to Kabul Airport, Hampering Evacuations From Afghanistan

https://archive.is/oBYIA

That's a start.

[reality1]

33. Military side is secure

Thousands being airlifted just today and will continue for weeks.

No way to keep Taliban from blocking roads in to the airport once the Afghan government gave up and fled. Also if the Taliban didn't block the roads our troops would be overrun with all sorts of civilians on the tarmac again. Not everyone that needs to get out will but a lot of them will and a lot already have.

In regards to the "greatest airlift in history" Republicans are already shaping a narrative that we're already taking too many people out.

Look for articles in the future possibly by same author..."Biden causing an Afghan refugee crisis in U.S. as thousands pour in, mars Presidency blah blah"
Tucker is already on this.

[Demsrule86]

50. According to what I read and what I heard from family members, the Taliban is not

stopping people from going to the airport.

[GoodRaisin]

36. I can understand people wanting that as part of a withdrawal plan.

I'm thinking in this case that with the troops already cut to 2500 by the Trump administration that perhaps weren't enough troops remaining to make those assurances, so it was necessary to rely on Afghan Army support which, of course, collapsed, or; effectively, extend the war he opposed in order to fight longer to achieve a more ideal ground situation. And then, for how long? I'm getting the sense that Biden was already boxed in when he inherited this situation from Trump. I don't know all this, but because there are so many details yet we don't know about it would be premature for me to judge Biden at this point. I think the fact that he does have the airport indicates that there was some forethought used in case the Afghan Army didn't hold. So I think for Biden it was take a risk getting out, or have to extend the war - as Trump apparently set him up for. But he's still fighting and he does have some options (noted in your links) I'm waiting to see how he uses them and hope he can successfully navigate the situation to get those people out who we were committed to helping leave. My guess is we are going to see a couple carriers in the region very soon, ready to butt heads with the Taliban if necessary to get enough of our people and friends out if it comes to that. One carrier group is already there on it's normal deployment (North Arabian Sea) and another could quickly join from it's position in the South China Sea (as I understand that situation).

[rockfordfile]

46. Those people should've got out last year.

The exit out of that country was in May. So they knew to leave months before.

[Demsrule86]

52. That is a right wing source...Wall Street Journal...

[Caliman73]

58. Thank you.

Josh Rogin is a "neoliberal with a constructivist streak" according to his own words. Meaning, he never met a war he didn't like if he thought we could make a buck or two out of it. Neoliberals are the "nation builders". He has an ideological investment in reporting the "bad of leaving".

[Hoyt]

28. Agree. I think he's trying to rectify it, and will. But trying

to blame everyone else — media, TFG, george war bush, the Supreme Court, Afghans, Russia, etc. — appears to be the mode we are in. Don’t think that really helps us.

[Demsrule86]

48. First of all TFG made a deal with the Taliban after the election to cause trouble IMHO...so he

needs to be called out. George Bush should never, never have gone there. As for the courts and Russia, I have no issue calling it. Why should Biden be blamed for problems that were created by others? I am sick of the media; and even before this, I had stopped watching...cut the cord. I don't watch MSNBC and I don't watch CNN. They gave Trump a pass for four years and now spend enormous amounts of time going after Biden. It's a feeding frenzy...I am not watching.

[rockfordfile]

49. No. Bushco and the media are to blame. The same goes for trump.

I get it you don't like President Biden. It sounds like maybe you're a bush supporter from the past.

[Hoyt]

51. Actually, I do like Biden. That's why I'm shocked he messed this up. george war bush had been gone

for a long-time, and he had absolutely nothing to do with the execution of withdrawal from his deplorable wars.

The media is not to blame, unless you think they should have just covered this up.

[rockfordfile]

65. The media just wants to shift blame because they're knee deep in it for supporting the lies.

A lot of those same media are still around.

Bushco has everything to do with this. If bushco doesn't lie us into that country, then we aren't going through the cleanup of his mess. It's the same for Reagan crap with many problems today. We can't lie about history. That's what bushco and other right-wing propaganda used to get us in there.

[Hoyt]

67. This is now. Biden is President, not bush, trump, Obama, Clinton, etc.

[rockfordfile]

70. Yeah and the President is finally getting us out.

The corruption in Afghanistan should be investigated.

[Bettie]

29. He wasn't my first choice or my fifth choice

but, he's been surprisingly good on nearly everything.

I like that he made the hard choice because it was the right thing to do.

It was always going to be bad. It was always going to be ugly.

He did what he could and then, like a good, honest man, he took responsibility even though he wasn't the one who cut the terrible deal.

He wasn't the one who released a bunch of hardened Taliban fighters and leaders.

He was the guy who stuck to a deal that was already made instead of backing out of it and ending up with an even bigger problem.

However it went down, the media was going to spin it against him, because that's what they do, they loved that orange man because he was a bull in a china shop, just wrecking everything for his own amusement. Biden is not him.

As I said, he wasn't my first choice, not my fifth, but he was the right guy for this moment in history.

And, he's stepping up and being the guy we need him to be.

This wasn't a mistake, it was doing the best he could with the information and the deal he had.

[samsingh]

32. don't we always grab defeat from victory?

Biden was doing a fantastic job - with our Democracy on the line, i was beginning to hope that there was a master, flawless plan to support the environment, support our allies, fight back the dictators, expose corruption under the trump years and get some justice.

Why bother i guess. When it's so much easier to screw up and blame the previous admins. Millions of Afghan lives are going to be destroyed. I heard on the television today that not one military life was lost in the last 18 months, so this was not to save the military.

I was against going in in the first place. But bush the fool did. Now, after all the lives lost, why leave a country and let it fall into another dictatorship without an actual fing plan that made sense.

i expected so much more from our side.

I don't why anyone would ever trust the US again. Every admin leaves their allies to be slaughtered.

and now we can watch our version of the taliban continue to destroy Democracy.

[Bettie]

35. So, what would you have had him do?

Say that the deal was null and void and ask them nicely to please return the 5000 militants they had got back?

How do you think breaking the deal would have gone?

How long should we have stayed? 5 years more? Ten? Fifty? A hundred? No matter how long we stayed, the result would be the same.

And, no matter how it went down, the media and Republicans would be flogging it for all they are worth, because that it what they do.

[Demsrule86]

38. Thank you Bettie...so true.

It is a no-win situation.

[samsingh]

41. plan an orderly exit with our allies and those on the ground -get those who helped us out first

and not abandon people who have helped us for 20 years

[rockfordfile]

56. Why didn't those people leave a year ago? trump set a exit for May

So they knew way ahead of time to leave. you don't support President Biden so you're making excuses for right-wing types.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. How do you know your interlocutor doesn't support our president?

[treestar]

68. Surely that was planned

Who says there was no plan? But things don't always go according to plan, especially something like this. It's not a field trip or a party.

[rockfordfile]

54. It was the bushco that lied us into that country. So yes he's to blame and the media at that time

Thank President Biden for getting us out of that country.

We lost way to many lives there and trillions. Propping up a corrupt bs "government" of the 20 years.

"why leave a country" You come off like a right-wing troll. Pushing to stay and let people steal more. Cause that's what was happening.

[samsingh]

30. Watching tens of thousands of Afghan's getting slaughtered

beheaded, whipped, killed is horrifying. I expected so much better and more humanity from our side.

i'm completely disallusioned.

[Demsrule86]

39. Watching hundreds of our young men and women in uniform slaughtered is no picnic either.

This is especially true if members of your family are serving. It was a mistake to ever have gone...but I kind of hope we planted a seed.

[samsingh]

40. i understand there were no soldiers killed in Afghanistan in the last 18 months.

[Demsrule86]

59. If we stayed there...more young men and women would die. We had an agreement with the Taliban

negotiated by Trump after he lost...we were already behind schedule...The killings would have commenced if we were seen as breaking the agreement. And I simply don't believe we can ever make a difference there. I want to leave now. Biden is right. It will be messy such things always are. but if you blame the guy who must end it... well you are on the wrong track...those at fault are the ones who in the beginning rushed to war waving the flag with no plan and no end game...Bush and Cheney.

[rockfordfile]

71. Hello Americans died there.

Our soldiers wherever they go did their job. I have relative that was in the military. The person was in DC when bushco was President. Sent to Afghanistan and then Iraq and then to New Orleans during Katrina.

We were in there for 20 years.

[ananda]

31. I'll be honest. Mine was Sanders...

but I'm not crazy and got behind Biden
as soon as he was the nominee.

[Demsrule86]

37. I don't think he screwed it up. The Media frenzy is ridiculous. I was always for Joe and Continue

to support and have faith in him in all areas. I will not listen to the Bullshit from a media that gave Trump a pass for four years...And I would remind you that Trump brokered the deal which forced Biden's hand. Also, I am glad to leave Afghanistan...never should have gone there. I am glad my family members will never have to go there again (they are in the service). When you pull troops out, there are always issues. but all in all, despite the yellow journalism, I think Biden is doing a fine job.

[rockfordfile]

42. No he didn't

Bushco and trump decided that. Going in decided 20 years decided that. All you're doing is sounding like a right-winger that knows they're to blame.

I got news, no matter when we were getting out of that country, it wasn't going to be a kumbaya.

[WarGamer]

44. Biden was NOT my first choice.

My core principle is the inequity of wealth and taxes. So I supported Warren.

Having said that...

Biden has been the PERFECT POTUS for this time... he's been pitch perfect.

[honest.abe]

47. I think you are watching too much MSM.

Clearly its a mess and chaotic but given the situation I think it was mostly unavoidable. I suspect if you turned back time and reran the past several days over and over it would have been basically same result no matter what.

In fact Joe Biden should be commended for having the guts to finally pull the plug. No other POTUS in the past 20 years did.

[Demsrule86]

60. +1000

[LanternWaste]

62. Precisely and methodically how should it "go down?"

And on what objective measure is that conclusion made from?

[Skittles]

74. thank you

the excuses are getting ridiculous

it was NEVER going to end well but this is just plain bad

[ARandomPerson]

75. Ridiculous

I'm sorry but opinions like this are just ridiculous.

How exactly could an exit from Afghanistan have been managed better? Please provide some specifics. All I've been reading are (1) soft-headed wishes that things had gone better ... somehow? and (2) neocons who never wanted us to leave Afghanistan in the first place.

Also, the evacuation is still ongoing. Flights are still leaving Kabul. It's not pretty, it's messy, but it's maybe as good as was possible.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

76. I was a day one contributor to Joe and met him at two fundraisers

Joe is a great guy in person

Link to tweet