I just saw a story at another site that starts "Race-Faker Rachel Dolezal"

[pjpossum]

I am someone that truly believes that people should be free to express who they are, as long as someone is not being hurt. I have had friends from all walks of life & ages.
I would really like a rational discussion as to why, if Rachel Dolezal truly identifies as a person of color, that is so tabu. Yet, the same people that demonize her, would be horrified if trans people were (and often are) demonized for who they identify as.
I am not "supporting" or encouraging Ms. Dolezal. I am just trying to understand the logic/illogic in many people saying it's ok if you feel that you are (fill-in the blank), but not ok if you feel that you are (fill-in the blank).
If we truly believe that a person is who they identify with, why all of the anger?

[leftstreet]

1. lol n/t

[blm]

2. For the 3rd time in 2days I've seen posts that

described resentment-based issues crafted in such a way to pit historically marginalized groups against each other. Maybe you saw the same.

Could be that we’re noticing a dirty trick political strategy. One in particular spreading on FB was worded to claim that network coverage of Olympics was more favorable to Megan Rapinoe and her “fiancé” than to Allyson Felix and her family. Not true, of course, but it really stirred up resentment quickly.

Probably spreading through Russian trolls. Or RW Repub trolls. Eh?

[pjpossum]

4. I'm not sure what stories you refer to.

I am not trying to put anyone against anyone else. I had hoped that this was a place that I could have a reasonable discussion & get honest answers. With Covid, I have basically kept to myself. Whereas in years past, I could have face to face conversations with people.
And just an FYI, I spent many a night at various LGTBQ places because I have had numerous close friends that identify in many different ways. One close friend was one of the first women that transitioned to being a man. We first became friends in high school. Being able to transition saved his life. But he has told me that many younger trans people have been horrible to him.

[blm]

7. My point was that perhaps we are seeing

a strategic movement. You said you saw a post at another site and I said I am seeing some, as well, with similar subject matter and worded to pit minority groups against each other.

Perhaps I didn’t make that clear.

[pjpossum]

10. Thank you for clarifying.

I refused to even read the "article" about Rachel D. because I am so tired of the click-bait titles that want to work us up. So many people have hidden motivations. And you may be correct in your musings.

[Celerity]

23. It wasn't a 'post' at some obscure chatroom, it was an article on a mainstream website

It also was not an article pitting minority groups against each other, it was just an article about that POS racial cosplayer Dozeal.


‘Race Faker’ Rachel Dolezal’s New Side Hustle: OnlyFans

https://www.thedailybeast.com/race-faker-rachel-dolezals-new-side-hustle-onlyfans

Here’s one person no one was expecting to join OnlyFans: notorious “race faker” Rachel Dolezal.

Yes, that same Rachel Dolezal who tried to catfish the world as the head of a Washington chapter of the NAACP, claiming she was Black, when in reality she’s a white woman who wears blackface and teases her hair to mimic an Afro to, apparently, look the part. This is the Rachel Dolezal who adopted African-American vernacular to try and make her persona more believable—the same woman who made the word “transracial” a part of our vocabulary.

The former activist posted on her Instagram late Wednesday that she has created and been approved for an OnlyFans account. She promises subscribers at least three posts a week, with bonus content here and there.

snip

[blm]

41. No, that's not what I saw.

I’m seeing posts crafted to stir up resentment towards LGBT.

[ibegurpard]

47. Yep

See also "sealioning"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/marshallshepherd/2019/03/07/sealioning-is-a-common-trolling-tactic-on-social-media-what-is-it/amp/

[blm]

52. ✔️

[treestar]

51. It is an uncomfortable question

and many seem to be avoiding it.

I was commenting when Meghan Markle first came on the scene - I thought she could pass for white. I was told she identifies as black and that looks have nothing to do with it.

Nothing to do with it!

So President Obama could identify as white? He would have a right to. But he said when people saw him, they deemed him black.

But they are right, it brings out a hypocrisy on the left. We just got several posts challenging us for believing Trump or Gaetz are sexual predators but not believing it about Cuomo or Franken.

Well this is a challenge for you too.

[pjpossum]

5. I never said that I was "concerned".

I stand by what I wrote. I have always strived to understand things and how life and all of our experiences affect us. If I don't quite understand something, I ask.

[blogslug]

6. If you can't see the difference I can't help you.

[Hekate]

8. Just out of curiosity, what was that other site? We might be able to help if we knew

[pjpossum]

11. Daily Beast.

As I replied above, I refused to even read the "article".

[keithbvadu2]

9. Same same with religion? Christian fakers?

Same same with religion? Christian fakers?

Many Protestants/Catholics firmly believe that each others are not true Christians.

Same with Muslim sects and Jewish sects.

Each denomination is the the sole, one, true faith.

All of the others are heretics.

[pjpossum]

13. My belief is that their is NO one true faith.

Each religion, agnostics or atheistic belief is there for a reason. As long as you do not harm another, believe or don't believe whatever works for you.

[lame54]

59. People often believe the one that got to them first

[ck4829]

12. Well, race IS a social construct. We need to remember WE are the ones who ultimately decide how it

works.

It is not biological or divinely inspired.

I do hope we can find ways we can tinker with the construct and subvert it entirely. There has been so much blood spilled in the name of race; especially with the simplistic system of Asian-black-white. The sooner it gets shredded up and turned into a pulp, the better for humanity.

[pjpossum]

14. I like your response.

Biologically we are all one race.

[Happy Hoosier]

29. While that is true...

It is a construct that is persistent and widely acted upon.

Many millions have people have did due to this construct.

I see this particular case as being akin to cultural appropriation.

[pjpossum]

31. I am actually trying to look past this particular case and understand

what boundaries are accepted and what & why. My question was to pose, what if someone truly believes/feels that they are something other than what most in society would classify them as? Do we, as a society, only accept certain situations as being acceptable?

[Happy Hoosier]

43. While that is true...

It is a construct that is persistent and widely acted upon.

Many millions have people have did due to this construct.

I see this particular case as being akin to cultural appropriation.

[keithbvadu2]

15. The ancients were more tribal than racial.

The ancients were more tribal than racial.


==================================

What race/ethnicity were the Ancient Romans?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1joz3i/what_raceethnicity_were_the_ancient_romans/

---------------------------------------
Were Romans white?

Tough question. Several answers.

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02B881UknZd7MF4Xt8ztaR-NC1xCg%3A1599451591106&source=hp&ei=x7FVX7PlA7OxytMP4Z6vuAU&q=were+romans+white&oq=were&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgBMgQIIxAnMgQIABBDMgUIABCxAzIFCAAQsQMyBQgAELEDMgUILhCxAzIFCAAQsQMyBwguELEDEAoyBQguELEDMgUIABCxAzoICAAQsQMQgwE6CwguELEDEMcBEKMCOgUIABCRAjoECC4QQzoICC4QxwEQrwFQigxY1BJghDFoAHAAeACAAcABiAGcBZIBAzAuNJgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXo&sclient=psy-ab

[keithbvadu2]

16. What color/ethnicity was Jesus? It depends on whose wall his portrait hangs.

What color/ethnicity was Jesus?

It depends on whose wall his portrait hangs.

[Hekate]

19. People generally need to see a god or goddess that resembles them. Jesus and Mary whitened...

… as missionaries converted pagan Europeans to Christianity. In Constantinople — the Eastern Orthodox — they remained darker.

[Mosby]

57. The vast majority of Americans see Jews as white

And Arabs as PoC.

Some go as far to turn Jesus into a Palestinian:


https://m.jpost.com/Opinion/No-truth-to-the-Palestinian-Jesus-595393

[pjpossum]

17. The "New World" view of race is a bit twisted.

[Hekate]

18. "Cultural appropriation" (look it up) is something minorities often find very hurtful indeed...

It’s something that isn’t seen as flattering, because a line has been crossed. Rachel Dolezal didn’t cross a thin almost invisible line, she crossed a big one, into territory that wasn’t hers, and she laid claim to a status and a history she was not entitled to. Her lie was not amusing.

There is transgressive behavior that pushes boundaries in some fashion that might lead to new understandings — what she did was not in that category. She was not, for instance, creating art that consciously referred to some other state of being in such a way that the observer was aware that she was aware, etc etc.

Part 2

I am very aware that race is as much a social construct as it is anything else. During the “one drop” days in the Old South they parsed degrees of blackness pretty finely, and I knew some of the terms from my reading. “Octoroon” meant, iirc, having a black great grandparent, which “entitled” one to all the race prejudice available at the time, and before the Civil War, to slavery. So, did this mean you could, like, tell?

When I was at University of Hawaii at the end of the 1960s I shared a house with a bunch of other girls, and one night Lou confided that her friend Fred had confided that he was himself an octoroon. It was a secret. I was a bit confused, for in the very racially mixed and much-intermarried environment I had grown up in, people were rather proud of their lineage and it was never, ever something to be hidden — from the age of 12 I babysat the neighborhood kids, and one family was Hawaiian-Japanese-Danish plus the mom was Czech. The other kids I babysat and my classmates were all similar.

So I finally met Fred. He had a square face, straight blond hair, white skin, and blue eyes. This?

That’s all I’ve got to say about the malleability of the concepts of race and race as a social construct. A lot of times people don’t get it, but it was my lived experience, and still is.

[pjpossum]

32. Thank you for your perspective, Hekate.

Regarding the one drop, that is very much how Hitler saw Jews. They actually had charts that showed how to classify if someone was still considered a Jew.
I grew up like you, being around multi-ethnic, multi-cultural people who were/are proud of their varied backgrounds. I have been extremely blessed that people that I have known have included me into their lives and shared their culture and traditions with me.

[Sur Zobra]

65. By the same token,

don’t trans people cross the same line? Are men who become women entitled to women’s history

[Dorian Gray]

20. oh boy

[Celerity]

21. Catfish-in-blackface Dolezal is a white privileged racial cosplaying POS

Amazing you have to ask why her cultural/racial appropriation is staggeringly offensive to us people of colour.

[womanofthehills]

39. Must say, she looks way better in photo on right

I remember reading she grew up in a racially mixed family and obviously identified with the black side. So, we had Michael Jackson bleaching his skin. People have their own reasons for how they identify. What’s with the intolerance on here?

[Celerity]

76. She is NOT black, yet cosplayed to such an extreme level she was the head of the local NAACP

as a self-proclaimed black woman. Her entire life was based upon a massive fraud starting in 2009.

A white person (with all the privilege that comes with that), cannot just decided to be black one day, and then lie and conceal the truth whilst gaining power via that deceit. It is one of the most extreme forms of cultural appropriation. She committed fraud by falsely filling out documents (amongst others, one of the most egregious was her applying for the chair of the Office of the Police Ombudsman Commission, as a fake black woman) stating she was part black.

She literally was a white woman in blackface.

If you cannot see how deranged, hurtful, and twisted that is, I cannot help you.

Rachel Dolezal's Brother Says She Warned: "Don't Blow My Cover"

[janterry]

22. she is not alone in her behavior, it is much more common

Last edited Fri Aug 20, 2021, 08:34 AM - Edit history (1)

than one would think.

Yes, race is a social construct.

No, she should not have lied (she lied quite a bit when asked about what she was doing). Lying is not okay.

[pjpossum]

33. I agree with you.

I was not trying to make this post about her. It just made me think and wonder how we would treat someone who truly identifies as an other. And what boundaries we still have as a society. If we exam the logic & reasoning behind those boundaries, it also leads to better understanding of each other.

[betsuni]

24. She's nutty.

[Demsrule86]

25. Trashing

[NurseJackie]

26. Lulz.

I would really like a rational discussion as to why, if Rachel Dolezal truly identifies as a person of color, that is so tabu.

Oh-kay-y-y-y.

[greenjar_01]

27. Welcome to DU

Good luck with all the "Aha! Contradiction!" stuff. Have fun, I guess.

[Oneironaut]

28. I will trust that you're good faith and not a transphobe.

The answer is, race doesn’t actually exist. It’s just a set of characteristics from past isolated populations. Gender, on the other hand, is mostly created by society. Physical sex exists as well, which trans people change as much as possible.

I haven’t heard about someone having skin color dysphoria, where as there are millions of trans people in the US. I believe it’s a form of neurodiversity, like autism (which I have as well).

Most of the hostility here is because people think your question was in bad faith. Transphobes usually invoke Rachel Dolezal in the same way they say, “Well, if you can become a woman, why not identify as a lamp!?”

I hope this helps!

[pjpossum]

30. I am in good faith. I completely understand that RD is a bad example.

Last edited Fri Aug 20, 2021, 10:06 AM - Edit history (1)

I was apprehensive about posting. But, philosophically looking at the issue, there are some things that appear to be incongruous. We are all products of our individual experiences. And having an honest discussion can shed light and deepen understanding. I truly appreciate the people here who are willing to have a discussion. I have strived my entire life to not have preconceived ideas and notions about others. I find it extremely fascinating to look at things from many varied perspectives.
RD's behavior made me wonder if there is skin color dysphoria. If there is, I might assume that maybe it is not diagnosed because of all of the issues and perceptions that exist in our society. Or can someone so completely identify themselves as a different race and feel that that is their true identity? Which then would be more of a psychological issue.
If race is a social construct, is the issue more tribal? If a person of one race was raised in a culture (tribe) of another, would it be acceptable for them to present themselves in a physical manner that reflects the general predominant physical characteristics and mannerisms of that tribe?
If we are working towards breaking down barriers and preconceived ideas to form a more egalitarian society, what things are still tabu? And what is the logic or reasoning behind people's viewpoints?

[Oneironaut]

69. Imo, if there was an actual "trans race" condition affecting hundreds of millions of people across

the globe, I would agree that it’s a legitimate point. However, there is not.

The reason for this, imo, is that it’s because sex is a physical characteristic, whereas race is not. Male and female are two real physical states that people can be, whereas race is a construct invented by society.

I don’t agree with the comparison of being trans to being trans-race. The latter does not exist legitimately, and pretending it does is going into the thought experiment realm rather than the real world.

[pjpossum]

70. I think that you misunderstood my reply. I am sorry if I wasn't clear.

I was not replying to you in reference to trans people. I took your explanation to heart. My reply was directed towards race and our perceptions of race. Plus, our understanding of the human brain is still in it's infancy.

[Oneironaut]

71. Oh sorry - I was more talking about the "skin color dysphoria" part.

The rest of my post was talking about why I don’t think it’s a thing. The rest of your post seems to reference the psychology of self-identification, right?

I guess you could ask, if trans people can identify as a certain sex, why not race? I don’t think this is legitimate for my reasons above. However, ignoring those, I’d argue you can become a race, kind of?

Here’s a thought experiment. Let’s say you’re white. A wizard casts a spell that causes everyone to see you as black. Are you black, now?

I could argue yes, because race is invented in society, and therefore, society will treat you as that race. I could also argue no because your skin isn’t black, despite everyone seeing it that way, and you did not experience a lifetime of oppression.

Were “passing” black people black? Yes, they were. Did society think they were black? No. Who owns race? Maybe each person?

I guess my point was, I don’t think Rachel Dolezal, assuming she’s not a grifter, has dysphoria. Of course, I’m not in her brain, so there’s no way we’ll ever know.

[pjpossum]

72. No problem. This format can be difficult to get a point across

if it's not a soundbite. As I try to keep my mind open, I often try look at a situation from all sides.
In regards to brain chemistry & function, I have a few friends who are neuroscientists. I've had some interesting conversations with them. As we learn more about the brain, we may find out things that prove or disprove our current knowledge base, and maybe discover a number of "surprises", too.
Regarding your hypothetical with a wizard, I assume that identification has a lot to do with a person's individual experiences.

[Mosby]

58. Of course race exists. JFC.

What is BLM? Why do cops keep harassing and killing black people if race doesn't exist?

This thread is shit, and fucking embarrasing for DU. It should be locked.

[janterry]

62. racism is real

but the idea that race is a social construct - that's understood and taught throughout academia - in all of the social sciences, the so-called hard sciences - pretty much everywhere.

[Oneironaut]

68. You didn't understand what I'm saying.

Race isn’t a biological thing. It’s not “real” in the sense that it’s a social construct. There is no genetically coded “race” in your body. It’s only real because society makes it real.

Gender is the same way. It’s a social construct.

[Mosby]

75. New genetic science has informed the race debate.

Last edited Sat Aug 21, 2021, 03:03 PM - Edit history (2)

More recently, new work in population genetics[12] has revived the argument that folk, or common, notions of race might have a biological foundation after all.[13] Researchers have noted that it is possible to track an individual’s ancestry using genetic data alone, and that when such data is used to create an appropriate number of (usually five or six) clusters (using different methods of grouping than Lewontin [1972]), the resultant groups look very much like folk races. While there is an ongoing debate about how best to interpret these findings,[14] some philosophers have taken the results to show that biological races, in some sense, do indeed exist.[15]

Like this essay notes, the debate is a metaphysical and ontological dispute, i would add that it also a epiphenomenological issue at its core. The entire notion of consciousness is debatable.

Gender is probably biological as well, but it's compicated and difficult to study. There are 60 types of DSDs so this goes well beyond trans folks. Babies have genetic, gonadal, hormonal and anatomical differences leading to different developmental outcomes.

Links:

https://1000wordphilosophy.com/2018/06/07/the-ontology-of-race/#_ftn13

https://areomagazine.com/2017/07/29/what-science-has-to-say-about-gender-identity/

https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/genitourinary-tract/Pages/Explaining-Disorders-of-Sex-Development-Intersexuality.aspx

[ForgedCrank]

34. I rarely butt in around here, but this one sort of torques me off.

What she is/has done generates more damage than good to the modern and current racial issues movement.
What you said is like saying since chlorine and cyanide are both chemicals, what's wrong with both being in every household?
There are countless POC's who deserve a legitimate place as leaders and there is no reason to support or promote her as a leader in this realm. I hold no ill will toward her and I appreciate her efforts, but the right-wingers have successfully used her to make a joke out of a serious cause in this country.
It's not a matter of supporting her personal identity, because I do, whatever that may be. My issue is with the negative optics it creates for a very important issue. I wouldn't call it "demonizing", but that is why some people see her as a potential problem, or at least that is what I have gathered as a personal opinion. But, I don't dislike her at all. Shes on the right side of this fight.

[pjpossum]

35. As I stated in other replies. My intent was NOT to make this about her.

I really was more interested in how we look at how someone identifies, and what & why that is acceptable.

[pjpossum]

40. My post was about personal identity. Not about her other actions.

[ibegurpard]

36. Why are we allowing this transphobic nonsense here?

"Well if people can identify as another gender why can't they identify as another race?"

[Treefrog]

37. She's in the news again?

I’d hoped we’d never hear from her again.

[msfiddlestix]

38. I get your question generally put, and am also curious with the resentment backlash from others

I grew up with a bi-racial family in a multi-racial culture...

when I was 15, my dad got his orders for his first tour of duty in Vietnam, which meant I had moved out of the south to a Hawaiian homestead (Papakolea) on Oahu. Living in the same house with members of the family I had never met before and couldn't understand a word anyone was saying.

I had to learn to understand and speak "pigeon english" to communicate, and very quickly I learned I also had to "pass" as a fair skinned native islander for survival... literally. Which meant I needed to speak, dress, and express certain characteristic mannerisms indicative of the native culture in order to be physically safe.

At some point in my immersion of this experience, I had developed an identity that was totally native.

When my father returned from Vietnam and had orders to return to Camp Lejeune, I was horrified. I didn't want to be separated from my new life/friends and I didn't want to be around ignorant hillbillies.

I was a young teen and that experience has remained one of the most significant benchmark periods in my life. So much about our culture, our history was impressed upon me all at once at that time and continues to do so.

I'm now imagining being viciously attacked and demonized for trying to "pass" as a fair skinned Portuguese/Hawaiian/Native Islander as a matter of survival in the beginning, but growing to identify to the extent that I preferred to be considered anything but white.

As an aside, and an irony not lost on myself, in just a few days I'm headed for the Blue Ridge Mountains to connect with some musician friends and play in some awesome sessions there, also to take in the trails and breath the air.

I feel rather blessed to have had the breath of cultural and multi-racial experiences in my life and the history I've learned, and I don't get some of the responses and reactions which seem hostile and confusing. I also don't know the back story of the person at question but at quick glance, seems rather unnecessary at best.

[pjpossum]

42. Thank you SOOO much for your response.

You were put in a difficult situation as a teenager. But you grew immensely as a person because of it. In the past, I have known a few native Hawaiians and bi-racial Hawaiians. They told me stories about areas that non-natives should never go to.
As for many of the angry responses, I think the subject must be painful to them. It's easier to lash out and not really address what I wrote and what my intention was.
If we don't communicate, that anger will keep us from truly being honest and respectful of each other.
I envy the trip that you are embarking on. It sounds like you will have such a wonderful time. Enjoy!

[msfiddlestix]

48. And thank you for asking the question, for exactly the reasons you did.

I agree on your point.

I feel it is a serious problem in our culture, this thing in our raising questions in order to try to understand one another, and perhaps listening to the other without guilt tripping, accusation of malice intent. "nobody's right, if everybody's wrong"

And I'm also grateful you totally "got me"... and yes I learned a lot by this early life experience for which I am eternally grateful.

My trip is an opportunity I would never have been able to take monetarily speaking, but for the unique circumstances that came together quite unexpectedly.

Making the trip on a shoe string budget (literally) and able to spend three weeks (if all goes as planned) mostly with the use of a vehicle (only paying for gas) and free lodging because I'll be house and pet sitting for a musician friend who is also a music teacher; and who will be finishing off the summer music camp circuit in Alaska and British Columbia, while I'm at her digs minding the home front in Virginia.

I'll also be connected with some fabulous musicians (sort of close by) and enjoy the awesome peace and tranquility of mountain and hilltops as far as the eye can see. Getting away from the fires and smoke (and the constant sounds of sirens) in California for the interim, will also be welcomed relief.

Maybe I'll bring the rain back with me!

[pjpossum]

55. I live in Los Angeles. You must be Nor. Cal.

I have numerous friends & relatives who are musicians. A good friend used to tour with his bands on a shoestring back in the day. He finally tired of it. He went back to school at 40 and received an education degree with a minor in music. My cousin teaches music in Nor. Cal. Near Penn Valley. If you ever play in the LA area (McCabes?), Let me know.

And please bring rain!!!

[msfiddlestix]

64. Yes, I live about an hour's drive north of San Francisco..

No big fires here in Sonoma County, thankfully. Lake County (north of here) was fighting a big one, had to evacuate Hidden Valley again. There are so many north and east of here.

Here though in my little enclave, we've had thankfully cool, almost chilly temperatures and mild winds as if we were located in the City. It is the chilliest Summer I've experienced in 51 years of living here.

Not complaining though. I'd rather have to wear a hoody than deal with upper 90's and triple digit heat waves. The hottest day we've experienced this summer, was a sort of 'one off' at about 99 degrees and that didn't last long.

Berkeley is the center of the old time music scene in this area, performances generally held at the Freight and Salvage. There are of course, other venues including house concerts. Or at least that's how it was in the "Before Times".

It's going to be interesting when we're going to be able to hold open sessions around town again. We've been experiencing a difficult sorting out of who is vaxxed and who isn't, and planning private jam sessions by "invitation only".

At the end of the day, I don't think that will be a thing. We're probably just going to meet up to play music with a sort of half disregard of everything we learned about each other during the past year and half, and of course with regard to vaccinations.

I know I was shocked when some names came up who I've known and played with for over 30 years. I think once this is all over, we'll forget all about this nightmare and just keep making music together as we have over all the years.

I do remember McCable's. I loved the vibes there. I think there's a shop there too, right? I feel like I tried out a bunch of mandolins a time or two. If it's the same place, i almost ended up purchasing a Collins which I hadn't heard of back then..

Now I have a new neighbor from Santa Monica who has a Collins Mandolin. I tried it out, it has a nice warm tone, but I prefer the feel and sound of the old Gibson's and Martins. Which I no longer own.

Anyway... sorry, I sure did ramble on....

[pjpossum]

67. Yes, McCabe's has the shop in front. It's in Santa Monica.

A lot of artists that play Folk & Americana music perform there (or did before Covid). I'm not too familiar with the Berkeley music scene. An old friend from high school plays around the San Jose area.
Maybe an old Gibson or Martin will find it's way to you. I know how each instrument has its own identity.

[msfiddlestix]

73. indeed..

I know how each instrument has its own identity.

Full Circle..

it's own identity.

[BlueIdaho]

44. I worked with Rachael Dolezal.

She is a batshit crazy pathological liar. She lied about all sorts of things above and beyond her biological race. But on that issue, I remember numerous conversations where she told me that I couldn’t possibly understand (this or that issue) because I was not born and raised in Harlem. The problem is - neither was she. She came from Bonner County Idaho.

Her claim of sympathetic racial appropriation was concocted when she ran into hot water for falsifying her information on an application for a position as leader of a Spokane Washington Black Support Organization. A job she got and was fired from after her white parents went public. She faced criminal prosecution and this was literally her “get out of jail free” card. Then it became a cash cow she could milk.

I have no problem with anyone identifying as this or that - but when it’s an obvious con to seek financial advantage or falsely qualify for jobs and take positions away from genuinely black candidates it can be seen as criminal behavior.

[shrike3]

61. That was my take on her. Thanks for your perspective.

[malaise]

45. Playing blackface does not make you black n/t

[UnderThisLaw]

46. Interesting website you patronize

All in the name of “research”, I’m sure

[Treefrog]

50. I don't know this poster or their motives, but people post crap from all kinds of websites here.

One poster yesterday made an op about an Washington Examiner article calling for Biden to step down. A clear right wing site. That stuff shouldn’t be here, but plenty of people read plenty of websites.

[UnderThisLaw]

63. Oh, of course

[Marrah_Goodman]

49. People of color do not get to choose

They have to live their entire lives dealing with the stereotypes and racism that comes with the color of their skin. You don't get to claim that history that is not yours.

[treestar]

53. "get to?"

like it's a privilege?

I don't see why not embrace her as someone who might come to understand better than most white people? Why does she want to do this? Is it a sign that the race she claims is NOT inferior as it was was perceived to be?

If one demands that POC be able to do anything on equal grounds with white people . . . It would be racist to call it "cultural appropriation" if a black person learns to play violin and wants to join the orchestra. Yet find someone white who likes rap and it's somehow unfair. That's like admitting you think rap is inferior and assume bad faith on the part of that white person.

It's like saying as long as the person is on the "negative" or maltreated side of any division in people, they are allowed to abandon all logic - a "victim's privilege." Which undercuts the idea of equality. And it sure explains why so many people want to be in the "victim" category and never admit there has been improvement. Notice the right has taken that up as well, especially rabid Christians.

[Ms. Toad]

56. It is a privilege.

A black person doing the same thing would (1) be unlikely to get away with it, and (2) labeled uppity or worse by people who believed they should stay in their place.

Privileged has nothing to do was you choose - without even thinking about it - something that marginalized people can't do.

Trans women, in large part, cannot walk into a woman's restroom without thinking about the potential for violence that they may encounter. Cis women rarely give it a thought.

Black men, in large part, cannot see the flashing lights of a police without worrying about becoming the next George Floyd. White men typically react as if the stop is an inconvenience in a busy day.

Rachel Dolezal thought nothing of claiming to be Black, but most Black people who "act white," even if they are not claiming to be white are treated with suspicion - as if they were given (rather than earned) their position among the white elite - and the suspicion also sometimes even comes from other Black indviduals. In the school I taught at for 11 years, "oreo," was used to insult the top students for being studious and speaking with "proper" English for example.

[treestar]

66. If you look a part you will not be questioned

Transwomen look like women, don't they? I never did see from the POV of the right wingers that they could even know they were in the women's room. In fact, someone posted photos of what some transmen looked like and thought the idea of them being in the women's room would more likely scare right wing bigots.

This was why the idea that race was about what you looked like being questioned was so dumb (a poster said that to me in a tone which was so sanctimonious, it was hilarious). You can't obviously, unless you look black or white. Meghan Markle could say she was white and get away with it, while it would be impossible for Michelle Obama. Not sure about Dolezal as it was her parents saying she was not black that brought her into the news. But if she had convinced anyone, it would mean she looked black enough to be treated that way by strangers who did not know who she was.

[Ms. Toad]

74. You are coming from a position of privilege to even make that statement.

It denies the reality of transwomen's lives - the vast majority of whom went through puberty flooded with male pronouns, which created features which "read" as male, and the vast majority of whom either are misgendered regularly or are afraid they will be.

That some - generally wealty and privileged in other ways - can afford the surgery to transform their bodies so they "read" as female, or some are lucky enough to be able wihtout surgery to "read" a female does not change the reality of life for most trans women.

[janterry]

54. Of course that's almost always true

but I've worked with clients who were biracial (or more) and wanted to identify as only one race (in a few cases white, in a few cases african american).

My stance was always to accept how they wanted to identify. I sometimes asked them about it. We talked about society, stereotypes, and racism. I wanted them to teach me about their culture and experience.

More often than not, their choice had to do with familial loyalty. They wanted to identify with one race because they loved one parent (of that race) and weren't all that attached to the other parent.

Anyway, I don't want to generalize beyond the folks I worked with.