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Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:10 PM

Did Afghanistan Have Anything To Do With The Collapse Of The Soviet Union?.....

Wasn't Russia/Soviet Union heavily involved in Afghanistan at the time of its collapse?

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Reply Did Afghanistan Have Anything To Do With The Collapse Of The Soviet Union?..... (Original post)
global1 Aug 20 OP
reality1 Aug 20 #1
bucolic_frolic Aug 20 #2
mahatmakanejeeves Aug 20 #5
paleotn Aug 20 #9
Aristus Aug 20 #10
Under The Radar Aug 20 #3
Ocelot II Aug 20 #4
mahatmakanejeeves Aug 20 #6
paleotn Aug 20 #7
Sneederbunk Aug 20 #8
paleotn Aug 20 #11
Walleye Aug 20 #12
Klaralven Aug 20 #13
roamer65 Aug 20 #14
2naSalit Aug 20 #16
Igel Aug 20 #15
treestar Aug 20 #17
FakeNoose Aug 20 #21
Zeitghost Aug 20 #18
KentuckyWoman Aug 20 #19
anamnua Aug 20 #20
Strelnikov_ Aug 20 #22

Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:11 PM

1. Yes

Tremendous loss of blood and treasure. "Out of Afghanistan" is the referred book on the matter.

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:14 PM

2. Yes

See the movie "Charlie Wilson's War". Our support to the opposition made it expensive in materiel and morale for the Soviets.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:20 PM

5. I watched it earlier this week. I turned the DVD back into the library yesterday afternoon.

It's embellished, I am certain, but there is a story behind it.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:27 PM

9. The Beast. One of my favorites about the period.

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Response to paleotn (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:29 PM

10. Best tank movie ever made.

Take it from a tanker...

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:14 PM

3. I am sure it contributed but the biggest reason was an arms race...

…with the United States that lasted 40 years that the Soviet Union could not afford.

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:16 PM

4. It certainly contributed. The USSR dumped a ton of resources

into their Afghan war (as did Great Britain long before them). Afghanistan hasn't been called "the graveyard of empires" for nothing.

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:22 PM

6. I guess it got to be one darn thing after another.

A helicopter gets shot down. Then six helicopters get shot down. Then a dozen helicopters get shot down.

I have long thought that the Salang Tunnel Fire must have been either a last straw or the last straw.

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:23 PM

7. More than slightly....

the straw, or log depending on how you look at it, that broke the Soviet's back.

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:25 PM

8. Yes, but the US did not learn anything from USSR's involvement.

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Response to Sneederbunk (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:33 PM

11. Or the Persians, the Greeks, the Mongols, the Arabs

the Sikh Empire, the British, the Mughal Empire. the Soviet Union and now the US. Did I leave anyone out?

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:40 PM

12. Chernobyl?

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:42 PM

13. Afghanistan: The Bear Trap - The Defeat of a Superpower - by Mohammed Yousaf and Mark Adkin

https://www.combatreform.org/BATTLESafghanistanTheBearTrapDefeatofaSuperpowerMohammedYousaf.pdf

At the start of this book, which tells the story of my part in the Afghan Jehad, I want to
acknowledge the debt I, and indeed Pakistan and the Mujahideen owe to the ‘Silent Soldier’,
General Akhtar Abdur Rahman. I served under him for four years at the height of the war, but he
carried the enormous responsibility for the struggle against what was then the Soviet superpower,
for over eight years. I call him the ‘Silent Soldier’ because of his great humility and modesty. Few
people, apart from his family knew him as well as I did until he was assassinated, along with
President Zia-ul-Haq, in the plane crash in August 1988. At one blow the Jehad lost its two most
powerful leaders.

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979 President Zia sent for General Akhtar, who
had recently taken over as Director of ISI. At that time nobody in authority in Pakistan, and
certainly no overseas government (including the US), thought the Soviet military might could be
confronted. Afghanistan was written-off as lost. The only person within the military to advocate
supporting the Jehad by Pakistan, and the only person to come up with a plausible plan for doing so,
was General Akhtar. He convinced the president that no only was it vital to Pakistan’s interests to
fight the aggressors, but that there was every chance of defeating them. Some years later Zia was to
say to him, you have wrought a miracle, I can give you nothing worthy of your achievements. Only
God can reward you.

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 06:50 PM

14. The USSR pulled out of Afghanistan on 15 Feb 1989 and collapsed 2 years later.

I think the bigger question, given our highly fractured and polarized state, is if we are destined for the same fate.

That question will be answered in 2022 and/or 2024.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 07:40 PM

16. And that's the truth.

It's up to we citizens to deal with this mess and make the changes we need to make in order to survive as a nation, as a species.

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 07:24 PM

15. Probably more moral than finances.

After all, there's the argument that the arms race didn't actually have any effect, and its primary consequence for the USSR was financial. "This financial drain was utterly meaningless, while this other financial drain was entirely sufficient," even as they overlapped in time.

Check out a novel called the "Zinc Boys." It has the advantage of not being written by outsiders discussing Russia, but by a Russian discussing Russia. The caskets of Russian soldiers returned from Afghanistan were zinc lined.

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 07:43 PM

17. I read one book with the theory

that bin Laden thought that since they had "beaten" the USSR in Afghanistan, that he could "beat" the US there too and so wanted us to go there, and 911 was to trigger that. So in a way we did just what bin Laden wanted us to do.

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Response to treestar (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 08:18 PM

21. I heard a different conspiracy theory a long time ago

OBL had nothing against us, but he wanted to draw us into a war against the Saudi royal family. He always considered the Saudi King his real enemy, and wanted the entire family deposed. So OBL used former Saudi soldiers and had them train as pilots in the US. Of course he realized all along that after 9/11 we'd find out who the pilots were, and we'd assume they were agents of the Saudi royal family.

Hmmmm ....

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 08:00 PM

18. It certainly contributed

"Keeping up with the Americans" on military spending in general was their downfall. After the Cuban Missile Crisis and especially after the removal of Khrushchev the Generals were in control and they chose military hardware and proxy wars with the US over the well being of the Russian people.

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 08:11 PM

19. I thought so

They bankrupted trying to take it. Started not paying the border patrols. They walked off the job or took bribes to let people out. Once the iron grip fell the whole thing fell.

Their infrastructure was neglected and falling apart. We had to send food to keep Russia from starving.

That is my recollection. Do not know what a history book says.

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 08:13 PM

20. This sums up thousands of years of Afghan history.

[link:|

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Response to global1 (Original post)

Fri Aug 20, 2021, 08:42 PM

22. A centrally planned economy was the primary, political corruption was a secondary

Afghanistan was an accelerant.

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