General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis Afghanistan situation was a setup,
The former guy intentionally undermined the results by reducing troop levels too low, which some in his administration told him and he ignored them. Then he got the terrorist Taliban leader with his 5,000 terrorist fighters released to aide them in retaking of the Afghan government, and now wants to claim others failed. The former guy claims they couldn't stop the process, which is odd because they wanted out years ago. The media should show the former guy aided terrorist, again, and caused this situation, and stop attacking those that were handed this mess. I turn the channel when they do that. The former guy doesn't know a terrorist he doesn't like, or aides if he can.
Voltaire2
(13,032 posts)So the setup theory is nonsense.
GPV
(72,377 posts)Orrex
(63,210 posts)Or any plan at all, for that matter, beyond do whatever the fuck I want and then blame everyone else.
rampartc
(5,407 posts)or al least would have faced a friendly press and complacent dems.
David__77
(23,393 posts)
rampartc
(5,407 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)and if he won he could say the taliban lied and sent more troops back in
and his plan for winning the election was to make covid worse so he could call a state of emergency and cancel the election - while making money off covid
having his guy limbaugh call covid a hoax for the early months should be considered evidence they wanted to use it like they did ebola as an oct surprise in 2014 - to get 9 senate seats. if former guy wanted to stop or slow covid limbaugh would not have called it a hoax, and then politicized masks and vaccinations
duforsure
(11,885 posts)To destabilize the Middle East more to create conflicts to manipulate higher oil prices , which the former guy failed getting oil sanctions lifted. Also to use against Biden if he won.
PatSeg
(47,430 posts)Though it's not always easy to assign motives to the erratic, impulsive things that man did.
certainot
(9,090 posts)i think it's sex on the wrong brain and a very bad case of the Certainty Deficit Disorder. he wants something and it's all or nothing.
like all authoritarians, but at an insane level, he's so addicted to finality/certainty that uncertainty, complications, unpredictability scare him so much he has to deny they exist. he reduces the world to absolutes - black white, right wrong, good bad and that ability is what his sex on the wrong brain followers love in him - he creates the certainty they're addicted to. when he says "like no one has seen before" he's creating certainty. he grew up like a prince with $1/2BIIL he was insulated from the lessons that usually beat that level of royal certitude out of people.
life is a game of golf to him, one hole after another. he wants something, pulls out his favorite clubs, and whacks away until he gets there and finishes the hole - certainty. then he goes onto the next hole. nothing valid exists outside his realm. he has no imagination to imagine complications or failure. capable of complete denial of reality - i didn't lose!
putins people recognize he has the royal certitude and played him with pee tapes
PatSeg
(47,430 posts)"Certainty Deficit Disorder" - I'd never heard of it before, but it is like it was written for him personally.
certainot
(9,090 posts)rainin
(3,011 posts)If he's not elected, he can campaign on the chaos.
n/t
GoodRaisin
(8,922 posts)If he won he still wouldnt give two shits about Afghanistan. Hed just head back out to the golf course on our tax money.
Voltaire2
(13,032 posts)that theory has a huge problem as shitler obviously not only thought he was going to win, he is still convinced that the Democrats must have done even more cheating than the republicans did in order to defeat him.
So no, the deal was not an intentional timebomb for biden.
GoodRaisin
(8,922 posts)Shitler is never accountable for anything. How many times have we seen this before we accept it as fact? That is what is wrong with your argument.
There is no debate that he cut the troops to bare bones and released the prisoners. If he loses, thats bad for Biden when he tries to withdraw. That part isnt debatable, nor can its significance be dismissed. It happened, for a reason.
But, if he wins, hes a second term president that knows he wont be held accountable for anything, much less what he decides to do about Afghanistan, if anything at all (hes also very lazy). What he thought about his chances of winning isnt even relevant when we are speaking about Shitler. We dont know what he thought. The point though, is that he doesnt care. To Shitler, this is a two sided coin flip. If he wins he can handle it any way he likes without consequences to himself. So yes, this looks very much like an attempt to box Biden in in case he loses, and the idea that he wouldnt do it because he thought he would win doesnt make any kind of sense.
Voltaire2
(13,032 posts)I'm fine with the theory that the deal was encouraged by putin. But a complicated scheme to use this as a timebomb for biden, again, requires shitler to have a concern that he might lose the election, and also has to have shitler concocting complicated schemes as contingencies for the 'lost the election' scenario. Neither of those seem remotely possible for the narcissistic asshole. Not remotely possible. In fact it is ludicrous.
GoodRaisin
(8,922 posts)Ukraine to discredit Biden; or, a scheme to hijack an election to deny Biden his electoral victory.
But we can agree to disagree on this point.
JI7
(89,249 posts)they had more numbers in their armed forces plus an air force. But they did not think it was worth defending against the Taliban.
littlemissmartypants
(22,656 posts)Watch this video and you'll see what I mean.
The Hashish Army report by The Guardian
Video is twelve years ago but it still gives an eye opening look at the Afghanistan National Army.
Haggard Celine
(16,845 posts)with the situation over there. It was hopeless. They never would have made disciplined troops out of those guys, like a bunch of hash-smoking Gomer Pyles.
littlemissmartypants
(22,656 posts)cab67
(2,992 posts)Evidently, it wasn't uncommon to keep deserters on the rolls so others could collect their pay.
lookyhereyou
(140 posts)with their lives.
JI7
(89,249 posts)Govt. They could try to change the govt also .
That's a bs excuse .
More likely they agreed with the Taliban or at least did not disagree when it comes to things like treatment of women.
gulliver
(13,180 posts)The Afghan troops might have fought to preserve their government if Trump hadn't basically announced to the world that the Afghan government had no friend in the United States. Trump screwed up any possibility of the Afghans defending their country.
Joinfortmill
(14,419 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,161 posts)Haggard Celine
(16,845 posts)The veterans wanted this shit to be over a long fucking time ago, but the MIC had to keep taking in profits. Biden probably wanted to end it long before this, but he didn't have the power to do it before. Now that he's able to do it, he's standing by our troops, and he'll get a lot of credit for that. Fuck these pundits! Their opinions won't count for shit in the end.
bluedevil4
(305 posts)who killed OBL but he didnt take the troops out. Now I understand why he didnt take the troops out. It was easier to pass it on. President Obama new it was a mess.
Biden had a difficult task on hand and no one can argue that. I dont know how hes going to get around this. The British and France are sending their paratroopers in to get their people out. I dont understand why we dont do that but maybe theyll save some Americans. Now Im reading that US citizens should not go to the airport. This is going from bad to worse
jaxexpat
(6,828 posts)He had no plan for anything. The closest he has ever been to a plan is whatever little scheme he playing to get attention at any given time. Look, the guy allowed sub-human creatures like Steven Miller around him, for Christ's sake. He has no concept of society or community except for whatever half-baked, lower class, prejudices he inherited or which he's steeped himself in his whole life. Yeah, re: Afghanistan, he did set up whomever was to proceed him but the concepts and means and methods, the nuts and bolts of it, came from the Kremlin. If he'd been re-elected(which I don't think he ever anticipated)he would have simply ignored and denied, with media assistance, his way out of any Afghanistan connection and that persistent problem would have stumbled along with the unmoored and outdated directives the military had been given in 2001. I mean what's up with our military that they can't tie their own shoes without a cadre of civilian contractors in tow? Hell, the whole world's watching the colossal embarrassment of it's inability to get itself out of it's own way while having had TFG's withdrawal schedule to work with for over a year. Maybe we need to take a critical look at the readiness our "heroes" stand to.
The whole "big lie" thing is a short term scheme to perpetuate relevance which got picked up by the RW media who still run with it via GQP candidates cementing their support with the looney base. TFG was playing America when he directed his mob or morons to attack the capitol bldg. and his line to denial of culpability, again with help from the RW media, is so sewn into his second nature scheming that he knew, to a pretty great extent, he'd NEVER be held to account for it.
We might get lucky and the pestilential fool could simply die soon but we'll still be stuck with certainly the most expensive and possibly the least capably lead military in the solar system.
Ford_Prefect
(7,897 posts)Administration. It really does read like it was intended cross-circuit the western allies and Biden administration while creating as much chaos and human woe as possible.
A better withdrawal would have involved staged releases of prisoners and more coordinated actions between the allies. It could not have stopped Taliban being and Taliban since they were waiting for us to leave and would have waited another 10 years if needs be.
duforsure
(11,885 posts)We're behind this peace deal, and the former guy had to go along aiding the enemies, probably getting money funneled into his pockets using a PAC.
usaf-vet
(6,186 posts)ananda
(28,859 posts)Exactly right!
They_Live
(3,233 posts)I havent heard anything about that, and its important to someone since its such a huge money maker.
luvtheGWN
(1,336 posts)but apparently Afghanistan is full of rare earth minerals, which the Chinese covet. Those minerals are necessary for the booming electronic industry (which we actually shouldn't call "electronic" since electric is passe!).
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)If so, why not go ahead and use his actual name and have it clearly and plainly associated with this analysis? All this "former guy" stuff is ridiculous.
rainin
(3,011 posts)and effective way to communicate how worthless he is. I vote for its continued use
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)It's such a bizarre thing for adults to do.
rainin
(3,011 posts)Plus, some of us don't believe he was legitimately elected, so calling him President is, and always was, offensive. Yet, we had to live with it. I'm happy that so many are actively taking his name out of the conversation.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Besides, in order to have an intelligent conversation about him (or "current events" that involve him, or that are the result of him) you don't need to use the word "president". Just saying his legitimate name "Trump" will go a long way toward clarity in messaging and being able to exchange ideas and observations and analysis in a less confusing, less cryptic and ... frankly... an adult manner.
AllaN01Bear
(18,204 posts), just change hats .
IthinkThereforeIAM
(3,076 posts)... after he lost the election to Bill Clinton in 1992. Among other, "things", that were left to blow up for the Democratic Party to be blamed for and clean up.
Voltaire2
(13,032 posts)the deal was made long before the election was lost.
IthinkThereforeIAM
(3,076 posts)... glad my memory is still intact!
" President Bush ordered a large U.S. military force to the area on December 4, 1992. Five days later, the first U.S. Marines landed in the first phase of Operation Restore Hope. "
[link:https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/bush-orders-u-s-troops-to-somalia|
Snackshack
(2,541 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Biden had no way to know that Trump had laid a trap for him.
I'm really afraid for what other traps that Trump has lying in wait.
duforsure
(11,885 posts)And maybe why the DOJ is taking longer on indictments and prosecutions, to uncover their spies, and find any traps, or illegal wiretaps being done.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)Certainly he had some time to assess the situation in Afghanistan. Seems like he needs to replace some of his cabinet level people if they couldn't tell in over a year that "trap had been laid."
Strelnikov_
(7,772 posts)remember, the previous admin did not provide for a standard transition, I would say four plus months.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Frankly, everyone was taken by surprise.
Trump needs to be prosecuted for this disaster.
Biden's cabinet didn't know either because Trump refused to brief them.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)The point being is that he has people that are supposed to figure this out, and if they didn't know that it was going to be a shitshow, then they should have waited. We can't act like this couldn't have been handled better. I agree we should be out of there, but it shouldn't have gone this badly.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)... were we supposed to vamoose without others knowing I ask the same question.
We were going to get an exit mob no matter what is what I see
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)We should have known that we needed more in place to protect those that helped us.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)... but even then we'd eventually have an exit mob
Ser Spiegel is reporting the Taliban has been in control since July
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)That isn't helping your argument. We should have known that and planned accordingly. An "exit mob" is one thing but not having procedures in place to get our assets out of there when the Taliban is apparently in charge is not a good plan.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)... been evacuating since July so that's more proof that there wasn't much that could be done to make this smoother and a non media issue.
Nothing anyone has presented looks like a butter smooth exit of assets **STARTED** with Putin's Whore.
There was no plan then and only could be covered after the fact
moondust
(19,981 posts)it probably wasn't TFG's idea. He has an attention span of approximately 2 minutes.
That would suggest it had to be somebody else's plan. Maybe somebody experienced at long-term planning. Like 5-year plans in communist Russia or China?
So if TFG didn't win reelection the mess would be there for the next administration. And if Pooty managed to get TFG reelected? Maybe they had a backroom deal with the Taliban.
Perhaps those rare earth minerals could help save somebody's "gas station economy."
former9thward
(32,005 posts)Trump is dumb and an idiot but he was able to lay a trap for Biden who has almost a half century of government experience. And that is not even counting Biden's advisors. They were all trapped by the dumb Trump. Doesn't speak too well for Biden. But the trap is found out by anonymous posters on a discussion board. Wow....
There was no trap. The exit from Afghanistan was always going to be ugly no matter who did it and when they did it. When Trump made his agreement with the Taliban in Doha it was all in the open and reported by the media. Nobody criticized it including then candidate for President, Joe Biden. Biden began receiving intelligence briefings in early December. He knew about the plan. If he did not approve it then he would have ended it. He merely extended it for a few months. He was not well served by his State Dept., Defense Dept. or his intelligence agencies. That was the failure, not a "trap".