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BGBD

(3,282 posts)
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 01:04 AM Aug 2021

Regardless of everything that has happened and how it has been covered...

Afghanistan won't change a single vote in 2024.

Americans don't vote on foreign policy and they don't vote on thing that happened 3 years prior.

Also, there's a fair chance that being the guy who ended the Afghanistan war becomes a major feather by that time. I believe that's what Biden thinks too, which is why he doesn't really care if he takes a hit on it in the moment. Is the person running against going to bring it up and then say what when asked if they think we should put troops back in?

Either they say no and admit leaving was the right decision OR say yes and have to stand by being the one who wants to reenguage in that mess. Both a losing arguments. Or worse, spend their time trying to thread some needle between the two.

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Regardless of everything that has happened and how it has been covered... (Original Post) BGBD Aug 2021 OP
How about in 2021? It's the Midterms Cha Aug 2021 #1
It will have even less impact in the midterms. BGBD Aug 2021 #4
Oh you're right.. I was thinking Cha Aug 2021 #6
2021 statewide elections in VA, NJ, probably others too. lagomorph777 Aug 2021 #18
Not congressional though. BGBD Aug 2021 #19
Right - but state government is responsible for drawing districts. lagomorph777 Aug 2021 #20
If the British cons want to civilize Afghanistan, let them try... Justice matters. Aug 2021 #2
I agree. Especially since every day I read in The Brit Press about the "success" the Tories abqtommy Aug 2021 #9
2022 H2O Man Aug 2021 #3
Afghanistan won't be an issue in that either. BGBD Aug 2021 #5
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Aug 2021 #11
nobody is voting on foreign policy in mid terms. CrackityJones75 Aug 2021 #12
Many people vote H2O Man Aug 2021 #14
To say watergate played a role CrackityJones75 Aug 2021 #16
I'm pretty old, H2O Man Aug 2021 #17
You would think videohead5 Aug 2021 #7
Afghanistan isn't a topic of discussion amongst the people I know. Kaleva Aug 2021 #8
I am sorry for the People of Afghanistan...the Taliban are monsters. But I believe we have Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #10
We should all recognize and be thankful that the person in the WH has good intentions, is wiggs Aug 2021 #13
I agree. The Blackhawk Down debacle didn't hurt Clinton. Treefrog Aug 2021 #15
It's hard to say if it did or didn't and how Mad_Machine76 Aug 2021 #22
Us leaving Afghanistan won't matter Mad_Machine76 Aug 2021 #21
 

BGBD

(3,282 posts)
4. It will have even less impact in the midterms.
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 01:14 AM
Aug 2021

Besides, those midterms are over a year away.

Covid and the economy are the only issues that are going to matter. Beyond that, like every election, turnout will matter more than any issue. Elections are largely turnout contests and not issue driven.

Cha

(303,780 posts)
6. Oh you're right.. I was thinking
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 01:22 AM
Aug 2021

they were this year for 2022.. but they're in 2022 for 2023.

Glad I asked.. I've been worried.

TY! But they have to have Good Reasons to GOTV & Turnout!

Voters sure as hell had Good Reasons to Turnout in 2020 & 2018!

 

BGBD

(3,282 posts)
19. Not congressional though.
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 05:50 PM
Aug 2021

Those are state offices. Still important but outside of what I was talking about

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
20. Right - but state government is responsible for drawing districts.
Tue Aug 24, 2021, 11:51 AM
Aug 2021

...and running elections. Extremely important to get 2021 right, or 2022 is a cluster fuck.

Justice matters.

(7,382 posts)
2. If the British cons want to civilize Afghanistan, let them try...
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 01:11 AM
Aug 2021
I doubt the Brits would vote them in again... but not sure.

abqtommy

(14,118 posts)
9. I agree. Especially since every day I read in The Brit Press about the "success" the Tories
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 05:20 AM
Aug 2021

have had with Brexit, Covid Response and other failed policies.

H2O Man

(75,028 posts)
3. 2022
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 01:14 AM
Aug 2021

is what matters now. There is no benefit to taking our eyes and energies off of the 2022 elections.

H2O Man

(75,028 posts)
11. Respectfully disagree.
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 01:23 PM
Aug 2021

There are two things I have studied cllosely, and actively participated in, for the many decades of my long life: boxing and politics. I know, without question, that the fighter who is not concerned about his next fight, but is instead focused on the one after that, will get his ass kicked. Hence, my focus on 2022.

More, I know that there is absolutely no way that Afghanistan will not be an important issue in 2022. No matter if we wish otherwise, we live in the real world. Afghanistan will still be a mess in 2022, and a global issue. Either China or Russia will likely become the most important partner with them, and republicans will seek to blame President Biden for the hell that Bush & Cheney created.

It is naive, at best, to think Afghanistan won't be an issue next year. It already is.

 

CrackityJones75

(2,403 posts)
12. nobody is voting on foreign policy in mid terms.
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 01:28 PM
Aug 2021

And most people agree with getting out even if they did.

We should be celebrating what is happening instead of being down dobber about it. The press wants to be negative? Fine. We can’t change that by trying to fight them. We should have people on there that instead say that this is a decision to be celebrated not condemned.

By the time voting for midterms happens this will no longer be a story. What is likely to still be a story though is dead Americans at the hands of Republican governors and state legislatures.

H2O Man

(75,028 posts)
14. Many people vote
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 03:23 PM
Aug 2021

on emotion. And we know that republicans always campaign on naked emotion, especially when it comes to a mistaken notion of patriotism. Losing a war has consequences, as the republicans found out after Nixon and Vietnam -- though obviously Watergate et al played a role.

Likewise, in the republican playbook, they will reverse course from the deaths during the Trump year, and blame Biden for the on-going covid crisis. It is important to recognize that the current republican party has gone from amoral to immoral, and that they are going to campaign on the synergy of emotion and ignorance.

I agree 100% that we should be engaged in a campaign to correct all the misinformation and disinformation regarding Afghanista. I attended my uncle's burial ceremony last Friday at a National Cemetery in NYS. One of the speakers was one of the guys who had served with my uncle. At the reception, he was seated at the table next to mine, and was giving me the hairy eyeball that his generationtended to view long-haired, bearded youth back in the day. He was arguing about Afghanistan with my cousin, a retired military man.

Being without any social graces, I said, "I thought the mission was to kill those who attacked us on 9/11. Something like having special forces block any path to Pakistan while bombing Tora Bora. It didn't include making the defense industry rich by sacrificing our military." He got up, put his hand on my shoulder, and said, "Exactly! You're god-damned right!"

 

CrackityJones75

(2,403 posts)
16. To say watergate played a role
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 03:26 PM
Aug 2021

To say watergate played a role is a massive understatement.

I just can’t look and try to find doom and gloom. It will not serve us well at all.

H2O Man

(75,028 posts)
17. I'm pretty old,
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 03:36 PM
Aug 2021

and can say that I have never been a "doom and gloom" subscriber. Exactly the opposite. I learned to be fully prepared, back when I boxed, for every opponent. I studied both their strengths and weaknesses. Then I exploited both. Those lessons made me a happy, optimistic young man, one featured in a major boxing magazine as a young teen. I continue that same approach these days, both as a trainer, and political activist. Hence, every fighter I have trained since 1975 has been a Golden Gloves champion. More, almost every political campaign in our state that I have been involved in has had success during those same decades.

Being "doom and gloom" -- or, "gloom and doome" -- is a waste of time. Ignoring our opposition's strengths and weaknesses is equally an exercise in ignorance. Neither applies to me, while the second surely applies to anyone who says Afghanistan will fade quietly into the past.

Also, if one studies history -- or for those of us old enough to remember -- the end of the war and Watergate were, in some ways, connected.

videohead5

(2,398 posts)
7. You would think
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 04:09 AM
Aug 2021

This is the worst thing a president ever done. They forget Reagan leaving our troops defenseless in Lebanon. 241 U.S. troops was killed in Beirut Lebanon by a truck bomb in 1983. When Trump pulled out of Syria he left the Kurds behind to get slaughtered.

Demsrule86

(70,751 posts)
10. I am sorry for the People of Afghanistan...the Taliban are monsters. But I believe we have
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 05:28 AM
Aug 2021

done all we can, and there is no point in staying there. Trump negotiated one of his worst in Afghanistan, and there is little Biden can do at this point. Biden has handled it well. It was always going to be a shit show IMHO. And Cable news, which I had stopped watching, is now out and out lying in order to improve their ratings. My hope is that we have planted a seed and perhaps in time the people of Afghanistan will rise up and throw out the Taliban. They have to be the ones to do it...we can't.

wiggs

(8,009 posts)
13. We should all recognize and be thankful that the person in the WH has good intentions, is
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 02:41 PM
Aug 2021

willing to do the right thing regardless of political risk, has hired and appointed competent public servants, is not out to enrich himself, sees the good in all people, doesn't threaten people or states that didn't vote for him, has empathy, etc.

I wish media would have a bigger picture view and realize that even with the best intentions things often don't work out perfectly...and that at least we aren't led by a person with bad intentions. instead they are reporting as though this is huge political drama born of malice and/or incompetence.

 

Treefrog

(4,170 posts)
15. I agree. The Blackhawk Down debacle didn't hurt Clinton.
Mon Aug 23, 2021, 03:26 PM
Aug 2021

Many do care about the Afghan people, but most do not.

It will be forgotten.

Mad_Machine76

(24,753 posts)
22. It's hard to say if it did or didn't and how
Tue Aug 24, 2021, 12:18 PM
Aug 2021

but I seem to remember that a lot of people (and the mdeia)were outraged by the incident and his first Defense Secretary Les Aspin was pressured to resign afterwards. That, among other things, snowballed into a massive Democratic defeat in the 1994 midterms. It was not pretty.

Mad_Machine76

(24,753 posts)
21. Us leaving Afghanistan won't matter
Tue Aug 24, 2021, 12:13 PM
Aug 2021

However, the problem is how the withdrawal is viewed. The more hysterics there are surrounding the coverage of the withdrawal the more people might be lead to believe that there is something wrong with Biden or that he's incompetent and *that* could harm Biden. But maybe as long as nothing extremely bad happens, it won't ultimately matter once the media coverage calms down. If you're a low-information voter regularly listening to somebody like Tucker Carlson during the past week, you might however be convinced that CNN (which he believes is controlled by and representative of the Democratic Party) is turning on Biden, that Biden is senile and incompetent and even his aides are turning on him and his family members and friends are getting worried about his intellectual and cognitive abilities.


If you're being fed THAT kind of information, who knows?

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