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Mon Aug 23, 2021, 12:04 AM

Regardless of everything that has happened and how it has been covered...

Afghanistan won't change a single vote in 2024.

Americans don't vote on foreign policy and they don't vote on thing that happened 3 years prior.

Also, there's a fair chance that being the guy who ended the Afghanistan war becomes a major feather by that time. I believe that's what Biden thinks too, which is why he doesn't really care if he takes a hit on it in the moment. Is the person running against going to bring it up and then say what when asked if they think we should put troops back in?

Either they say no and admit leaving was the right decision OR say yes and have to stand by being the one who wants to reenguage in that mess. Both a losing arguments. Or worse, spend their time trying to thread some needle between the two.

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Regardless of everything that has happened and how it has been covered... (Original post)
BGBD Aug 2021 OP
Cha Aug 2021 #1
BGBD Aug 2021 #4
Cha Aug 2021 #6
lagomorph777 Aug 2021 #18
BGBD Aug 2021 #19
lagomorph777 Aug 2021 #20
Justice matters. Aug 2021 #2
abqtommy Aug 2021 #9
H2O Man Aug 2021 #3
BGBD Aug 2021 #5
H2O Man Aug 2021 #11
CrackityJones75 Aug 2021 #12
H2O Man Aug 2021 #14
CrackityJones75 Aug 2021 #16
H2O Man Aug 2021 #17
videohead5 Aug 2021 #7
Kaleva Aug 2021 #8
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #10
wiggs Aug 2021 #13
Treefrog Aug 2021 #15
Mad_Machine76 Aug 2021 #22
Mad_Machine76 Aug 2021 #21

Response to BGBD (Original post)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 12:08 AM

1. How about in 2021? It's the Midterms

that I'm concerned about.. in the swing states.

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 12:14 AM

4. It will have even less impact in the midterms.

Besides, those midterms are over a year away.

Covid and the economy are the only issues that are going to matter. Beyond that, like every election, turnout will matter more than any issue. Elections are largely turnout contests and not issue driven.

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Response to BGBD (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 12:22 AM

6. Oh you're right.. I was thinking

they were this year for 2022.. but they're in 2022 for 2023.

Glad I asked.. I've been worried.

TY! But they have to have Good Reasons to GOTV & Turnout!

Voters sure as hell had Good Reasons to Turnout in 2020 & 2018!

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Response to BGBD (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 02:38 PM

18. 2021 statewide elections in VA, NJ, probably others too.

Please check your state if not sure.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #18)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 04:50 PM

19. Not congressional though.

Those are state offices. Still important but outside of what I was talking about

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Response to BGBD (Reply #19)

Tue Aug 24, 2021, 10:51 AM

20. Right - but state government is responsible for drawing districts.

...and running elections. Extremely important to get 2021 right, or 2022 is a cluster fuck.

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Response to BGBD (Original post)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 12:11 AM

2. If the British cons want to civilize Afghanistan, let them try...

I doubt the Brits would vote them in again... but not sure.

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Response to Justice matters. (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 04:20 AM

9. I agree. Especially since every day I read in The Brit Press about the "success" the Tories

have had with Brexit, Covid Response and other failed policies.

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Response to BGBD (Original post)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 12:14 AM

3. 2022

is what matters now. There is no benefit to taking our eyes and energies off of the 2022 elections.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #3)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 12:16 AM

5. Afghanistan won't be an issue in that either.

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Response to BGBD (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 12:23 PM

11. Respectfully disagree.

There are two things I have studied cllosely, and actively participated in, for the many decades of my long life: boxing and politics. I know, without question, that the fighter who is not concerned about his next fight, but is instead focused on the one after that, will get his ass kicked. Hence, my focus on 2022.

More, I know that there is absolutely no way that Afghanistan will not be an important issue in 2022. No matter if we wish otherwise, we live in the real world. Afghanistan will still be a mess in 2022, and a global issue. Either China or Russia will likely become the most important partner with them, and republicans will seek to blame President Biden for the hell that Bush & Cheney created.

It is naive, at best, to think Afghanistan won't be an issue next year. It already is.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 12:28 PM

12. nobody is voting on foreign policy in mid terms.

And most people agree with getting out even if they did.

We should be celebrating what is happening instead of being down dobber about it. The press wants to be negative? Fine. We canít change that by trying to fight them. We should have people on there that instead say that this is a decision to be celebrated not condemned.

By the time voting for midterms happens this will no longer be a story. What is likely to still be a story though is dead Americans at the hands of Republican governors and state legislatures.

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Response to CrackityJones75 (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 02:23 PM

14. Many people vote

on emotion. And we know that republicans always campaign on naked emotion, especially when it comes to a mistaken notion of patriotism. Losing a war has consequences, as the republicans found out after Nixon and Vietnam -- though obviously Watergate et al played a role.

Likewise, in the republican playbook, they will reverse course from the deaths during the Trump year, and blame Biden for the on-going covid crisis. It is important to recognize that the current republican party has gone from amoral to immoral, and that they are going to campaign on the synergy of emotion and ignorance.

I agree 100% that we should be engaged in a campaign to correct all the misinformation and disinformation regarding Afghanista. I attended my uncle's burial ceremony last Friday at a National Cemetery in NYS. One of the speakers was one of the guys who had served with my uncle. At the reception, he was seated at the table next to mine, and was giving me the hairy eyeball that his generationtended to view long-haired, bearded youth back in the day. He was arguing about Afghanistan with my cousin, a retired military man.

Being without any social graces, I said, "I thought the mission was to kill those who attacked us on 9/11. Something like having special forces block any path to Pakistan while bombing Tora Bora. It didn't include making the defense industry rich by sacrificing our military." He got up, put his hand on my shoulder, and said, "Exactly! You're god-damned right!"

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #14)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 02:26 PM

16. To say watergate played a role

To say watergate played a role is a massive understatement.

I just canít look and try to find doom and gloom. It will not serve us well at all.

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Response to CrackityJones75 (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 02:36 PM

17. I'm pretty old,

and can say that I have never been a "doom and gloom" subscriber. Exactly the opposite. I learned to be fully prepared, back when I boxed, for every opponent. I studied both their strengths and weaknesses. Then I exploited both. Those lessons made me a happy, optimistic young man, one featured in a major boxing magazine as a young teen. I continue that same approach these days, both as a trainer, and political activist. Hence, every fighter I have trained since 1975 has been a Golden Gloves champion. More, almost every political campaign in our state that I have been involved in has had success during those same decades.

Being "doom and gloom" -- or, "gloom and doome" -- is a waste of time. Ignoring our opposition's strengths and weaknesses is equally an exercise in ignorance. Neither applies to me, while the second surely applies to anyone who says Afghanistan will fade quietly into the past.

Also, if one studies history -- or for those of us old enough to remember -- the end of the war and Watergate were, in some ways, connected.

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Response to BGBD (Original post)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 03:09 AM

7. You would think

This is the worst thing a president ever done. They forget Reagan leaving our troops defenseless in Lebanon. 241 U.S. troops was killed in Beirut Lebanon by a truck bomb in 1983. When Trump pulled out of Syria he left the Kurds behind to get slaughtered.

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Response to BGBD (Original post)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 03:18 AM

8. Afghanistan isn't a topic of discussion amongst the people I know.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 04:28 AM

10. I am sorry for the People of Afghanistan...the Taliban are monsters. But I believe we have

done all we can, and there is no point in staying there. Trump negotiated one of his worst in Afghanistan, and there is little Biden can do at this point. Biden has handled it well. It was always going to be a shit show IMHO. And Cable news, which I had stopped watching, is now out and out lying in order to improve their ratings. My hope is that we have planted a seed and perhaps in time the people of Afghanistan will rise up and throw out the Taliban. They have to be the ones to do it...we can't.

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Response to BGBD (Original post)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 01:41 PM

13. We should all recognize and be thankful that the person in the WH has good intentions, is

willing to do the right thing regardless of political risk, has hired and appointed competent public servants, is not out to enrich himself, sees the good in all people, doesn't threaten people or states that didn't vote for him, has empathy, etc.

I wish media would have a bigger picture view and realize that even with the best intentions things often don't work out perfectly...and that at least we aren't led by a person with bad intentions. instead they are reporting as though this is huge political drama born of malice and/or incompetence.

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Response to BGBD (Original post)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 02:26 PM

15. I agree. The Blackhawk Down debacle didn't hurt Clinton.

Many do care about the Afghan people, but most do not.

It will be forgotten.

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Response to Treefrog (Reply #15)

Tue Aug 24, 2021, 11:18 AM

22. It's hard to say if it did or didn't and how

but I seem to remember that a lot of people (and the mdeia)were outraged by the incident and his first Defense Secretary Les Aspin was pressured to resign afterwards. That, among other things, snowballed into a massive Democratic defeat in the 1994 midterms. It was not pretty.

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Response to BGBD (Original post)

Tue Aug 24, 2021, 11:13 AM

21. Us leaving Afghanistan won't matter

However, the problem is how the withdrawal is viewed. The more hysterics there are surrounding the coverage of the withdrawal the more people might be lead to believe that there is something wrong with Biden or that he's incompetent and *that* could harm Biden. But maybe as long as nothing extremely bad happens, it won't ultimately matter once the media coverage calms down. If you're a low-information voter regularly listening to somebody like Tucker Carlson during the past week, you might however be convinced that CNN (which he believes is controlled by and representative of the Democratic Party) is turning on Biden, that Biden is senile and incompetent and even his aides are turning on him and his family members and friends are getting worried about his intellectual and cognitive abilities.


If you're being fed THAT kind of information, who knows?

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