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AngryOldDem

(14,065 posts)
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:44 AM Aug 2021

Watching the breaking news coverage of Kabul

My rage is growing by the minute. We can blame Trump, et. al., all we want, but the true responsibility for this lies with George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and the massive military-industrial complex that has benefitted from this charnel house for the past two decades.

I’m seeing yard signs all over — September 11 We Won’t Forget. And we shouldn’t. But while we wave our flags and beat our chests we must also remember those who have made the aftermath of that day just as horrific.

I stand by President Biden and his decision to end this sorry clusterfuck.

Just had to get that off my chest.

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Watching the breaking news coverage of Kabul (Original Post) AngryOldDem Aug 2021 OP
Actually it was Ronald Reagan who planted the seeds. At least the intelligence was correct, and JohnSJ Aug 2021 #1
Actually, it was Jimmy Carter who started support for the Mujahideen. OnlinePoker Aug 2021 #13
Thanks, I forget about that, through the CIA JohnSJ Aug 2021 #16
+1000. Well said. usaf-vet Aug 2021 #2
Listened to Stephanie Miller on Sirius gab13by13 Aug 2021 #3
As A Taliban Leader Said COL Mustard Aug 2021 #6
Spot on. Loge23 Aug 2021 #4
Don't leave out Condi and Colin hibbing Aug 2021 #5
Agree. IamHappy Aug 2021 #7
Doug Feith and his pals Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz Ford_Prefect Aug 2021 #8
Keep adding to the list. AngryOldDem Aug 2021 #9
The three I mentioned wrote much of the policy that was implemented which created the current Ford_Prefect Aug 2021 #12
Post removed Post removed Aug 2021 #10
Let us not forget TFRD Aug 2021 #11
The purpose was to get Bin Laden and the Taliban allowed his group "Al-Qaida" to stay tetedur Aug 2021 #15
Yes yes yes TFRD Aug 2021 #17
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2021 #14
Thank you. AngryOldDem Aug 2021 #18

JohnSJ

(92,747 posts)
1. Actually it was Ronald Reagan who planted the seeds. At least the intelligence was correct, and
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:55 AM
Aug 2021

Americans were warned to stay away in the last 24 hours, and hopefully they heeded that advice

I have no doubt our soldiers are working to evacuate the remaining Americans and allies


OnlinePoker

(5,738 posts)
13. Actually, it was Jimmy Carter who started support for the Mujahideen.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 01:06 PM
Aug 2021

The Taliban are an offshoot of the Mujahideen.

gab13by13

(22,023 posts)
3. Listened to Stephanie Miller on Sirius
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 11:36 AM
Aug 2021

she had a Congressman on who was a platoon leader in Afghanistan, oh my god what an intelligent explanation of president Biden's gutsy decision to leave. He said our military can win every battle but there was no end game, no good situation because the Taliban can just wait us out.

He said we shouldn't ignore the good we have done for the country while we were there; Schooling, diminishing poverty, diminishing hunger and sickness and infant mortality. With that said, the Congressman stated that we have left Afghanistan a better place but he said we shall see 6 months from now if the Taliban wipes out all of the gains.

COL Mustard

(6,138 posts)
6. As A Taliban Leader Said
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 12:06 PM
Aug 2021

About us Americans, you have all the clocks, but we have all the time.

The collapse of the Afghan government was predetermined, and was guaranteed to happen as soon as we left. I just don’t think anyone saw it happening in less than two weeks.

Loge23

(3,922 posts)
4. Spot on.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 11:37 AM
Aug 2021

The military-industrial complex has essentially co-opted our military into a human grist mill for the grifting of trillions of American taxpayer dollars. This includes the defense industry, the scumbag lobbyists, and the thieves in the Senate and Congress who took the bribes.
Damn them all.

hibbing

(10,153 posts)
5. Don't leave out Condi and Colin
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 11:47 AM
Aug 2021

Glad I cut the cable and don't have to listen to those two spew their bullshit.

Peace

Ford_Prefect

(8,010 posts)
8. Doug Feith and his pals Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 12:34 PM
Aug 2021

bear much of the real blame. They are the ones who penned the alternate fact Intel reports used to initiate and justify the invasion along with the later mission creep. These Neo-Cons created the fantasy of a "liberated" Afghanistan and Iraq becoming independent democracies as a bulwark against surrounding Islamist theocracies.

AngryOldDem

(14,065 posts)
9. Keep adding to the list.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 12:39 PM
Aug 2021

There’s more than enough blame to go around, and I hope people realize that. Biden just had the presidential courage to say no more. It’s a region that the West never could and never will understand, going back to the Balfour Agreement.

When would have been a good time to go? There never is!

Ford_Prefect

(8,010 posts)
12. The three I mentioned wrote much of the policy that was implemented which created the current
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 12:53 PM
Aug 2021

situation. Depending upon who you read they may have had a hand in the circumstances which led to the need for such a mission.

We may have been justified in pursuing Bin Laden & Al-Qaeda as a limited goal. We were not ever going to make permanent changes in Afghanistan without overturning the entire culture in defiance of the history of the region and the country, not to mention international law. That assessment existed before W took office.

Response to AngryOldDem (Original post)

TFRD

(205 posts)
11. Let us not forget
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 12:43 PM
Aug 2021

that none of the 9-11 terrorists were from Afghanistan. This war was for a purpose, but that purpose had nothing to do with 9-11.

tetedur

(825 posts)
15. The purpose was to get Bin Laden and the Taliban allowed his group "Al-Qaida" to stay
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 01:34 PM
Aug 2021

in Afghanistan. Remember this little tidbit of the reason for our involvement?

Under the influence of U.S. oil companies, the government of George W. Bush initially blocked U.S. secret service investigations on terrorism, while it bargained with the Taliban the delivery of Osama bin Laden in exchange for political recognition and economic aid, two French intelligence analysts claim.

In the book ''Bin Laden, la verité interdite'' (''Bin Laden, the forbidden truth''), that appeared in Paris on Wednesday, the authors, Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie, reveal that the Federal Bureau of Investigation's deputy director John O'Neill resigned in July in protest over the obstruction.

Brisard claim O'Neill told them that ''the main obstacles to investigate Islamic terrorism were U.S. oil corporate interests and the role played by Saudi Arabia in it''.

The two claim the U.S. government's main objective in Afghanistan was to consolidate the position of the Taliban regime to obtain access to the oil and gas reserves in Central Asia.

They affirm that until August, the U.S. government saw the Taliban regime ''as a source of stability in Central Asia that would enable the construction of an oil pipeline across Central Asia'', from the rich oilfields in Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Kazakhstan, through Afghanistan and Pakistan, to the Indian Ocean.

Until now, says the book, ''the oil and gas reserves of Central Asia have been controlled by Russia. The Bush government wanted to change all that''.

But, confronted with Taliban's refusal to accept U.S. conditions, ''this rationale of energy security changed into a military one'', the authors claim.

''At one moment during the negotiations, the U.S. representatives told the Taliban, 'either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs','' Brisard said in an interview in Paris.

According to the book, the government of Bush began to negotiate with the Taliban immediately after coming into power in February. U.S. and Taliban diplomatic representatives met several times in Washington, Berlin and Islamabad.

The last meeting between U.S. and Taliban representatives took place in August, five weeks before the attacks on New York and Washington, the analysts maintain.


http://archive.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=5166

I guess we did carpet them with gold (2 trillion dollars worth) and we carpeted them with bombs too.

AngryOldDem

(14,065 posts)
18. Thank you.
Thu Aug 26, 2021, 04:43 PM
Aug 2021

This is all just so senseless. Our mission ended with the death of bin Laden. Would our staying for another 20 years end differently? We all know the answer to that.

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