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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo, no Romney men have ever served in the military? That is disgusting.
All five of my mother's brothers served in WWII in different branches of the armed forces.
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quinnox
(20,600 posts)Lots of families have not had anyone serve in the armed forces. That does not mean they are any less patriotic. 
efhmc
(16,815 posts)If they were pacifists I would give them a pass but they love and support war, they just don't want anyone they LOVE in one.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)Because saying that having served in the military means you are more of a patriot is a well known right wing talking point and philosophy, which is why I objected.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)my blood boil to see Romney and his worthless sons imply in any way that they support serving in the military or that they are serving their country by doing some worthless mormon crusade or by helping their father become president or that they need to punch the President for calling out their liar father. they are pampered, worthless cowards who expect the peasants to fight wars for them.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)Zalatix
(8,994 posts)efhmc
(16,815 posts)
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)hobby genealogist, and even in Quaker families you can find someone who served. I have never come across a family with no veterans for 4 generations. Never.
The Romney's are.......unique.
Risen Demon
(199 posts)They all support the idea of war so long as it's not them who fight in it.
TampaKeeper
(48 posts)That's the very definition of a chicken hawk.
Don't miss the repeat of Lawrence O'Donnell's show when it repeats tonight. He has something to say to the Romney boys who didn't serve. It was fantastic.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)if you are going to support it, then be prepared to pay the price with the lives of those you love.
enough
(13,766 posts)BanzaiBonnie
(3,621 posts)What I think is disgusting is that they're comparing their missionary service to military srvice. How insulting can they be to those who put their lives on line and have given their lives in the service.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)War is hideous and those chicken hawks who squawk the squawk and don't walk the walk are people who should never have a say in anything to do with losing one's life.
speedoo
(11,229 posts)Lawrence is really nailing the Romney chickenhawks tonight.
"Go ahead Taggert, Take your best shot."
Fucking beautiful.
Brother Buzz
(40,080 posts)THAT'S got to count for something. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Henry_Wilcken
efhmc
(16,815 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)They brought my brother to the hospital to see me the day I was wounded.
Our dad and all of our uncles served in WWII. Of all of us, I was the only draftee--and I'd volunteered for the draft.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)among us. Peace.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)AK fire blew away half my teeth and jaw and put a hole in my shoulder, and I was peppered with shrapnel.
When I finally was winched out of the jungle in a basket and Medevac'd back to the evac hospital the ORs were full of the casualties I'd already sent back, so my gurney was rolled off to the side. I would have died then, but for a nurse who came back to check on me and noticed that I'd stopped breathing, so they did an emergency tracheostomy on the spot.
I'd been hit very early in the morning and when they pulled my brother off bunker guard and drove him to the hospital that evening I was still unconscious. But I did get to see him when he came back the next day before they shipped me to another evac hosp. Even though I couldn't talk to him because of the trache.
Ten months later I was doing great in an Army hospital in SF, and I was looking forward to my brother coming home. But he was delayed, and didn't arrive until just after I had another big operation. So when the poor guy saw me, my head was swathed in bandages again and I looked just the way he'd seen me in-country--as if nothing had changed in those 10 months. I really felt bad for my brother then.
After 18 months, I left the hospital with a partial disability retirement from the Army.
But I was one of the lucky ones. I survived the war, and so far I've managed to survive through PTSD. I knew more than 60 guys who didn't make it back, so I have no complaints.
All in all though, I think my comrades and I would rather have been in France...
efhmc
(16,815 posts)Except to say, I hope you have had some blessings and many joys since then and if not you deserve them. What a horrible stupid wasteful thing war is. I valued what you shared with us and wish you well.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Is your little brother still around?
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)The photo displayed at his memorial service, from his fishing trip to Alaska shortly before he died...
R.I.P., Jim 
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)I thought it was you that had said that about your brother.
I couldn't remember if it was you or not.
Damn.
deaniac21
(6,747 posts)staunch defenders of our country!
Horse with no Name
(34,243 posts)has a slew of past and present servicemen.
All hat and no talk...who said that?
efhmc
(16,815 posts)Many here who haven't a clue what that really means.
Horse with no Name
(34,243 posts)Note to self. Log off computer after taking flu meds!
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)not once. The closest that either Romney OR Ryan have gotten to Fort Bragg was about 1.5 miles off the reservation and it was Ryan-only.
It's like they're avoiding the bases like the plague.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)I think.........but still - why hasn't he visited the VA hospitals or talked to the wives, etc.?
efhmc
(16,815 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Not cool. I can't help but wonder if our armed forces have been paying attention?
The least he could do would be to start building a relationship with the people he intends to use for his many wars.
Not Romney.
Bozita
(26,955 posts)See the COWARD on the far right in the white slacks (How many college students in the '60s dressed like THAT?)
efhmc
(16,815 posts)Elucidate, please.
Bozita
(26,955 posts)
spanone
(141,808 posts)
Tribetime
(7,145 posts)during Vietnam? Mitt was in France. As a matter of fact the romneys may be the only american family to never had served in the military.
The right can't protest and claim there are others, it would look ridiculous. Maybe there are a few others....but the point would be driven home. How many american families can truly say that.
Bozita
(26,955 posts)He can't say that's somebody else.
Photo was posted earlier at DU in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1058120
efhmc
(16,815 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:45 AM - Edit history (1)
This picture shows more than ever what he thinks he is worth in relationship to lesser mortals. When I think of the people who died for this creep it makes me sick to my stomach.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)whose family has been here for a few generations who has not had military members in their family.
spanone
(141,808 posts)efhmc
(16,815 posts)men out of the Vietnam draft, at least at the beginning stages. So having many wives might have made them even more ineligible.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)and he was probably more use to the war effort there than he would've been in uniform honestly.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)"I am helping my dad become pres" five sons with goofy names third generation Romneys?
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)By serving back home on safe territory while letting others go fight in the actual battles.
Yet, that doesn't explain why Mitt "protested" against the anti-Vietnam War protestors during the Vietnam War by holding up a sign at a rally he attended that said "Don't protest the war, support the United States", or something like that.
I think that made Mitt's innermost feelings known, that he wanted everyone else that was drafted by the federal government to go serve in the Vietnam War, because after all, he had secured a draft deferment ny virtue of his religion to go on a mission for his church, so he could go to France and smell the corks on wine bottles.
That's tough duty.
TransitJohn
(6,937 posts)Fuck the goddamn American military fetish. I've got a lot of bones to pick with Rmoney, but lack of military 'service' ain't one of them.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)Send your young people to war but let my 5 boys stay home and help me run for pres. And if they offer to punch out our president that will secure our borders even more.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Is it someone who is willing to send troops to war, but has never served themselves?
Bozita
(26,955 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)Does someone have to go to pro-war rallies, just tell others that they support the war on a regular basis, or just support sending troops to a war.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)The idea of being forced to fight as many were, especially those who were not in college or had other privileges produced "the starkest class division in American military service since the days of purchased draft deferments in the Civil War".
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Since the draft has been gone for decades, some doesn't have to actively avoid service anymore.
Based on this, Paul Ryan wouldn't be a chickenhawk, but someone who had received 4 or 5 deferments might be.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)sons and romney chickenhawks. Are you purposefully being obtuse?
Here is the definition: chickenhawk (also chicken hawk and chicken-hawk) is a political term used in the United States to describe a person who strongly supports war or other military action (i.e., a War Hawk), yet who actively avoids military service when of age.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)but I've seen Ryan referred to as a chickenhawk before. I had thought that a chickenhawk was simply someone who supports a war who had never served themselves, but that can't be it. It has to be more than just supporting a war, and it has to be more than just having not served.
I'm trying to figure out exactly what that criteria is, or at least some sort of general consensus.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)people or their families being "willing to serve", yet they are very "willing to send other to serve."
hughee99
(16,113 posts)and this fits the definition I had originally understood, but discussing mittens sons, they didn't actively avoid the military (since without the draft, no one has to "actively" avoid it).
It's been suggested that one needs to actively avoid service. Bozita below has an interesting division of chickenhawks.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)would find a way to get out of serving their country. We can all agree on that.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)It's not that complicated. Chicken hawks support wars but avoid service for themselves and their family members. Romney has been running for president for a decade. With his connections he could have easily arranged for at least one of his FIVE FUCKING SONS to get a spot in the National Guard or Reserves or something, like daddy Bush did for W so it wouldn't be so glaring that no one in his family has been in the military. Makes you wonder about that Romney. He's been running forever but doesn't take care of obvious details, like his tax thing. He had to know this stuff was going to come up. Or maybe he's just not that smart.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)can gain control by using cutthroat business tactics and gobs of cash to get whatever he wants.
There is that arrogance factor. And we still don't know what he stands for. Check that, he stands for every position at one time or another.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)Bozita
(26,955 posts)Classic chickenhawks - Apply for and receive deferments while beating the drums for war. Think Dick Cheney and Mitt Romney. Yes, classic chickenhawks are a dying breed.
Neo-chickenhawks - Beaters of the war drums but no longer need to apply for and gain deferments. Any excuse to not serve is acceptable provided the drum beating is loud and sufficiently long enough. Think Paul Ryan and all five of Mitt's sons.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)edited for type-o
efhmc
(16,815 posts)They were able through pull and deferments to avoid the draft. But many of the men conscripted then were those who had no way to get out of the draft through educational or other means:
PWWII period: (1948 thru 1976*)
1-A Available for military service
1-AM Medical specialist available for military service
1-A-O Conscientious objector available for noncombatant
military service
1-A-OM Medical specialist conscientious objector available
for noncombatant military service
1-C Member of the Armed Forces of the United States, the
Coast and Geodetic Survey, or the Public Health Service
(Enl)-enlisted; (Ind)-Inducted; (Dis)-discharged
1-D Member of a Reserve component or student taking military
training
**1-H Registrant not currently subject to processing for
induction or alternate service
1-O Conscientious objector available for civilian work
contributing to the national health, safety, or interest
1-OM Medical specialist conscientious objector available for
civilian work contributing to the national health,
safety, or interest
1-S Student deferred by statute: (H)-high school; (C)-college
1-W Conscientious objector performing civilian work in the
national health, safety, or interest (Rel)-released
***1-Y Registrant qualified for service only in time of war
or national emergency
2-A Registrant deferred because of civilian occupation
(except agriculture)
2-AM Medical specialist deferred because of critical
community need involving patient care
2-C Registrant deferred because of agricultural occupation
2-D Registrant deferred because of study in preparation
for the ministry
2-M Registrant deferred for medical study
2-S Registrant deferred because of activity in study
3-A Registrant with a child or children; or registrant
deferred by reason of extreme hardship to dependents
4-A Registrant who has completed service; or sole surviving son
4-B Official deferred by law
4-C Alien
4-D Minister of religion or divinity student
4-E Conscientious objector opposed to both combatant and
noncombatant training and service
4-F Registrant not qualified for military service
4-FM Medical specialist not qualified for military service
4-G Sole surviving son
4-W Conscientious objector who has completed civilian
alternate service
5-A Registrant over the age of liability for military service
Was romney classified as a 4d?
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)A chickenhawk is someone who supports other mothers' sons and daughters being sent to fight a war while never signing up for military service himself/herself. Never putting skin in the game, but supporting wars that put others' lives on the line.
In the old days, a chickenhawk could take advantage of legal deferments to avoid the draft while supporting sending others to war involuntarily under the draft. The powerful and privileged could even pull strings to secure a berth in the National Guard, which virtually guaranteed no war service. (Sound lilke anybody we know?)
hughee99
(16,113 posts)while getting a bunch of deferments necessarily a chickenhawk, or is there more to it?
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Someone advocates going to war as something SO terribly important that it's worth OTHER people dying and being maimed--but apparently not important enough to commit personally to the cause.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)so can you really call someone a chickenhawk based on the choices their children make? Many people didn't serve for various reasons years ago (when they were young enough to), have supported the recent wars. Does that make them all chickhawks or is there some other distinguishing characteristics?
efhmc
(16,815 posts)to send other people's children to be killed but they make sure to protect their own by rearing them to think they are above the rest of us peons and should be spared the necessity of being shot at. There are others expendable canon fodder folks to do that job. Mitt can't make his sons be willing to serve, but he can make them understand that this statement: "Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney on Wednesday defended his five sons' decision not to enlist in the military, saying they're showing their support for the country by 'helping me get elected.' " makes them all chickenhawks.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)or that his son's would be neo-chickenhawks (as suggested above). The reason I ask was because I was in a conversation the other night with someone who brought up another name, and we disagreed as to whether that person could be considered a chickenhawk or not. The person voted for the Iraq war resolution in 2002, has multiple male children who did not serve, and had 4 or 5 draft deferments during Vietnam. I realized that the person had essentially met my definition, and yet I was defending them as not being one.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I've re-read my posts and still cannot find anything that even implied anything about parental responsibility for the decisions or choices of the offspring.
There's an old saying, I think, about those who protest too much...
hughee99
(16,113 posts)that personal commitment or "skin in the game" could be one's personal service OR that of children.
As I mention specifically, I found myself in a conversation recently in which I was defending a specific person as NOT having been a chickenhawk. During my defense, though, I realized that this person met my basic criteria for it, and so I wondered if my definition was wrong. This is why I'm asking here, hoping that someone would suggest a definition that many would agree with and yet would not fit the specific example I had to deal with.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)efhmc
(16,815 posts)are soft on security, but that macho talking chickenhawks are not. And they are frightened of diplomacy.
marlakay
(13,320 posts)Being in it....
flyguyjake
(492 posts)I say "filthy" rich because of the horrible business practices of Bain Capital. I have met many mormon's in my life and every one of these families are HUGE. They are exclusively white, no interracial relationships. Somehow they manage to have a majority of male children and they typically have 5 children per family. All of them get married at a young age and immediately start popping out children. From what I've seen and heard, mormon's believe in world domination through procreation.
You will see very few if any Black, Hispanic or Asian people in their "cult". It absolutely blows my mind how any christian person could ever vote for a Mormon because Christians believe mormonism is a cult. They don't believe mormons are Christians.
The republican tea party people in my family say - "They'd rather vote for a mormon than a Muslim". It saddens me terribly that there's so much ignorance and hatred in the white Christian circle.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)everything to do with racial bigotry and the love of power.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)in god awful places like the French Riviera and all came back as men!
efhmc
(16,815 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)and very dangerous too. It's a wonder how they made it back alive and without any VD!
cali
(114,904 posts)Lots of wonderful people who have contributed masses, haven't served in the military. The Romneys aren't in that category, but I hate hate hate the implication in your op.
I find that disgusting.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)idea that you are ready, willing and able to send others to be killed but your precious sons don't need to go and neither does anyone in your family that I find disgusting. I never served, neither did my daughters and if I have my say neither of my gsons will but I am not advocating war as Mitt does. Excellent op here on the subject here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11791007 and a picture of Mitt protesting the protesters here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1578700
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)She is leaving in 3 weeks for Lakeland AFB. She is also 28 and married. My older daughter's friend (FEMALE) is in Basic Training right now. Never mind Romney's sons, imagine QUEEN ANN enlisting?
My Dad enlisted in the Army in WW2; Africa and Italy.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)
Robyn66
(1,675 posts)He said they were serving their country by helping him run for president.
"My sons are all adults and they've made decisions about their careers and they've chosen not to serve in the military and active duty and I respect their decision in that regard. One of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping me get elected because they think I'd be a great president." Mitt Romney 2008
efhmc
(16,815 posts)DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)Your mother's brothers military service says nothing at all about your mother. Their service doesn't make your mother better, or worse, or more patriotic. It reflects nothing on her. And the same goes for what her children do. To say that it is disgusting that a family has no one in the military is disgusting in itself.
efhmc
(16,815 posts)I don't support war and ask others to go, while I tool around France for the mormons. Please see post number # 76 and btw, I do think it is beyond disgusting to get 4 deferments and push for war continually. Have you heard his policies for Iran, Russia, etc.? Let the peons serve while my boys will serve by helping me be elected president. See post#82. Actually disgusting is really too nice a word for it!
DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)I have no problem calling out Romney for pushing for war, but what does that have to do with his family? He doesn't have the right to force his sons into the military. Obama was never in the military, yet is a war president. Do you think Obama's daughters should be forced to go to war for their father? President Obama tripled the number of troops in Afghanistan, with 70% of US troop deaths there happening on his time. He started a war in Libya without going to congress. He continues to use drones to kill people in several different countries, killing innocent children. These actions are disgusting, not a family without military members.