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Thu Aug 26, 2021, 09:57 PM

Former soldier Elliott Ackerman on CNN was complaining bitterly about the withdrawal

He said the Biden people should have kept other airports open to get people out and we should have started months ago.

It seems to me we put out notices for people to leave months ago.

I'm not sure how many airports we could have kept open with the 2,500 soldiers we had left there.

But this guy was really upset and complained about all the chaos.

He did and we should all praise our troops for the job they are doing.

But I'm not sure how we were supposed to make Americans leave early if they didn't want to go.

And for several reasons we couldn't really get Afghans out until the end.

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Reply Former soldier Elliott Ackerman on CNN was complaining bitterly about the withdrawal (Original post)
LymphocyteLover Aug 2021 OP
viva la Aug 2021 #1
Twoflower Aug 2021 #6
viva la Aug 2021 #9
Twoflower Aug 2021 #14
hamsterjill Aug 2021 #2
Hoyt Aug 2021 #4
LymphocyteLover Aug 2021 #15
Hoyt Aug 2021 #21
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #20
Hoyt Aug 2021 #23
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #29
LiberalFighter Aug 2021 #42
LiberalFighter Aug 2021 #41
LiberalFighter Aug 2021 #40
Hoyt Aug 2021 #43
LiberalFighter Aug 2021 #49
happy feet Aug 2021 #51
BannonsLiver Aug 2021 #13
JoanofArgh Aug 2021 #46
Hoyt Aug 2021 #3
regnaD kciN Aug 2021 #10
LymphocyteLover Aug 2021 #16
Hoyt Aug 2021 #27
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #22
Hoyt Aug 2021 #25
Wounded Bear Aug 2021 #28
Hoyt Aug 2021 #33
marie999 Aug 2021 #55
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #30
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #31
Hoyt Aug 2021 #32
LiberalFighter Aug 2021 #44
Devil Child Aug 2021 #37
Catherine Vincent Aug 2021 #5
LymphocyteLover Aug 2021 #17
CrackityJones75 Aug 2021 #34
LymphocyteLover Aug 2021 #38
LiberalFighter Aug 2021 #45
CrackityJones75 Aug 2021 #48
happy feet Aug 2021 #52
Mr.Bill Aug 2021 #53
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #24
PortTack Aug 2021 #7
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #26
CrackityJones75 Aug 2021 #35
GoodRaisin Aug 2021 #8
LymphocyteLover Aug 2021 #18
GoodRaisin Aug 2021 #36
regnaD kciN Aug 2021 #11
LymphocyteLover Aug 2021 #19
BannonsLiver Aug 2021 #12
David__77 Aug 2021 #39
KentuckyWoman Aug 2021 #47
LymphocyteLover Aug 2021 #50
LymphocyteLover Aug 2021 #54

Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:06 PM

1. Just more indication of why we should be leaving.

No one remembers, I guess, the Marine base bombing in Beirut during the Reagan years. Hundreds killed-- and we left then.

Wars are ugly, and leaving is always hard.

And American civilians should realize they are going to be basically hostages if they don't get out.

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Response to viva la (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:56 PM

6. I do I was there.

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Response to Twoflower (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 26, 2021, 11:53 PM

9. That must have been traumatic

Sorry you had to go through this.

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Response to viva la (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 01:20 AM

14. Traumatic yes, but proud to have done my part.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:12 PM

2. CNN is starting to piss me off.

Chris Cuomo had one of the Republican senators who snuck over to Afghanistan on his show tonight. Just my opinion, but I don’t think that behavior should be rewarded with air time.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:19 PM

4. Moulton made some good points. Kind of hard to bash Democrats who appear or

Last edited Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:51 AM - Edit history (1)

the majority of Dems who aren’t supporting Biden by appearing. The few who have appeared say, “I support pulling out, but awful execution.”

Even Schiff wasn't backing this mess.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 07:59 AM

15. Moulton gave a nice speech about the tough job the troops are doing and how he was proud of them

his trip was still stupid IMO.

"Schiff waste backing this mess."-- you mean "wasn't"?

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:50 AM

21. "Wasn't" sorry.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:44 AM

20. This is the sort of behavior some Democrats engaged in during the ACA meltdown...just before

the 2010 midterm. And this is why we can't have nice things. It is not Biden's fault. Donald Trump bragged about how Biden could do nothing in the spring and short of adding more American troops, I don't see any options that would have changed the situation. Personally, I think Biden has done a good job and I support his efforts as for those Democrats you mention, I have but one thing to say...they are not in my district or state so I can't vote against them in a primary. But by God, if they show up in a presidential primary, I won't vote for any of them. And several on your list have presidential aspirations. Loyalty matters.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:51 AM

23. Biden should have added more troops months ago. Ended up having to do it anyway.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:03 AM

29. No, he shouldn't have...he added a enough to get people out ...but it would have been all out

war to do otherwise. I want out. That is how I feel. And looking at all the people Biden has gotten out safey, I say he is doing a hell of a job. And history will not be kind to Ackerman and others like him IMHO.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 06:29 PM

42. I agree. He exceeded expectations and spoiled those that want him to fail.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 06:28 PM

41. I wonder how many of them got re-elected in 2010 that complained?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 06:27 PM

40. It was a mess from day 1 twenty years ago.

There was no good way to get out of it.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #40)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 06:30 PM

43. Well, we took about the worse way. And, now, we learn several thousand prisoners

we’re released during the chaos.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #43)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:05 PM

49. You mean the 5,000 from Pakistan?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:02 PM

51. I'm with hamsterjill.

Changed channel when either the repub or dem got rewarded with air time which was the onlly point of them going. To get their name known.

No credibility with me given their selfish judgement

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 12:15 AM

13. They've always been the "war network".

They made their name with Desert Storm in 1991. The same breathless ghoul fest was also seen in March 2003 with the Iraq invasion and “shock and awe.”

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 06:36 PM

46. I remember Bernard Shaw under the desk at a Baghdad hotel broadcasting on

CNN while missiles were flying through the air. Their ratings boomed for a while after that. Rumsfeld loved it.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:15 PM

3. We should have put more troops in earlier, blaming trump for withdrawing

too many to extract everyone. Biden should have listened to Hilary Clinton in May and consulted her.

As far as leaving early, I’m betting a lot of people hunkered down when State Department said the responsibility to get to Kabul was on them. Oh, great, evacuees were supposed to drive on dirt roads controlled by Taliban and other gangs.

Think it is likely we should have controlled at least one other airport, even if we had to put more troops in.

But too late now. Hope it doesn’t get uglier.

What’s the deal with being totally out by 9/11? Is that some publicist’s suggestion?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 12:00 AM

10. Yep. TFG really tied our hands on this...

We needed a lot more troops in place to carry out proper evacuations. Not to mention not slowing visas for our allies to a crawl for years, so it wouldn’t look like he was letting brown-skinned people into our country.

I can see the point of saying “well, Biden should have started much heavier evacuations as soon as he took over, long before we withdrew.” Which makes sense, except…with only 2,500 troops on the ground, any heightened evacuation attempts would have sent the signal that we were expecting the government to fall. As a result, the Afghan military would have melted away immediately, the Taliban would have started up their offensive earlier, and…we would have been precisely where we are right now, except in April rather than August.

The simple fact is, the only way we could have evacuated everyone we wanted in the manner we wanted would have been if we had made it a gradual, “under-the-radar” process over several years, while we still had sufficient military forces to smooth out the process. But we didn’t – and, despite the “buck stops here” rhetoric, the responsibility for that failure doesn’t lie with the person who took over the role of President after that time had passed.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:03 AM

16. Yes & sending more troops back to secure roads & airports would likely have violated the peace deal

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Reply #16)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:56 AM

27. trump arranged Peace Deal with Taliban. You are kidding, right?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:51 AM

22. NO, Trump negotiated a deal. Had we sent more troops, it would have been all out war.

I want this useless, bloody war over. Under your scenario, many would have died. I must say, I am not all that sympathetic to those in Afghanistan...including the vacationing students and their families. I am glad they are safe and all, but they had no business going there. Americans in Afghanistan have been repeatedly warned that they need to go and they chose not to. Donald Trump stopped our Aghanistani allies from getting visas, and Biden has done a hell of a job in my opinion. He got thousands out. And in my opinion, the suicide bomber shows why we need to get the hell out of there.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:55 AM

25. Well, it's all out war now with 13 of our guys dead. I agree the evacuations picked up. But

after people fell off an airplane and our military and State Department got caught flat footed and unprepared.

Hillary Clinton is helping to get some at risk women out. Biden should have listened to her earlier when she told us this was going to happen in May.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:03 AM

28. No, it isn't 'all out war'...

it was a terrorist bombing attack. Terrible, but hardly "all out war."

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:24 AM

33. OK, I guess Taliban is not walking around with rifles.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #33)

Sun Aug 29, 2021, 08:50 AM

55. So they are walking around with rifles. That does not make it a war. It is their country.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:08 AM

30. When my niece was in Afghanistan, there was a suicide bombing...it has been going on for years.

And there was no easy way to do this. What you refuse to understand is our hands were tied after Trump negotiated a very bad deal. But even so, the Taliban was not responsible for the suicided bombing. It was Isis. Basically, everything you talk about here is what happens in war, and usually, it is worse. There is no easy way to do this and Biden is doing a good job IMHO.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:11 AM

31. Just one more point. Our state department has been saying for months 'get out'.

What are they supposed to do if Americans don't listen? I wonder who these Americans are...and if they are mercenaries AKA Blackwater types...let their companies get them out...no need to risk our soldiers for this.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #31)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:22 AM

32. Except our government contracts with those mercenaries to keep active duty military counts low.

Did same thing in Iraq. If I remember, about 1/3 of Americans killed were contractors doing the same things as active military.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 06:31 PM

44. Yes! Sending in more troops would had escalated it sooner

and made it messier.

I believe what brought it on sooner than expected was the Afghan president leaving.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 10:07 AM

37. Hoyt, your posts are a voice of reason in these threads

 

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Thu Aug 26, 2021, 10:25 PM

5. I saw the end and missed most of his comment

What I did see, he was livid. He was on Lemon right?

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Response to Catherine Vincent (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:05 AM

17. Yes, on Lemon and he was very upset.

It's hard to blow off an angry vet who had served there even if his remarks may have been somewhat off-base

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:25 AM

34. No it isn't

I served in the military. We need to stop the damned hero worship of military people. They signed up for a job where the basic duty is to have to kill people. That was the reality that was communicated to me by a commander at MEPS on my enlistment date.

There is a reason our military is under civilian control and we need to make sure that stays that way. Constantly going to ex-soldiers asking for their comments is dangerous. We occupied a country for 20 damned years. 20 FUCKING YEARS. And we killed a LOT of people. We had people guilty of murder and war crimes over there. And we want to act like none of that was ever going to brush back on us? I don’t wish that these service members died but what the hell do people think was going to happen?

And then this knucklehead makes the case that we should be trying to secure MORE locations? Really???? Call it what it is. Second guessing fir the sake if making a political point. THAT is disgusting and disrespecting the people that died.

We have a saying that we don’t negotiate with terrorists. We also shouldn’t let them have weight in our political arenas.

A couple people walked up to suicide bomb a bunch of people and we were supposed to defend that. There is very little defense for that. And people going in TV to complain and make statements otherwise are a waste of time.

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Response to CrackityJones75 (Reply #34)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 11:55 AM

38. OK-- thank you for that. Good points.

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Response to CrackityJones75 (Reply #34)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 06:36 PM

45. I agree with that. The military and veterans should get respect...

but they should not be put on a pedestal. At least not all of them. They got paid to do the job. And it was their choice. There are some that should be recognized for their valor. But to put them all in the same bucket is wrong.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 06:43 PM

48. Oh absolutely!

It is this idea that the default fawning over them is normal.

Anyway I don’t by any means want to take away how much I value service.

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Response to CrackityJones75 (Reply #34)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:04 PM

52. This!

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Response to CrackityJones75 (Reply #34)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 04:11 PM

53. And every year more Americans are killed

right here in the USA by other Americans than are killed by terrorists.

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Response to Catherine Vincent (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:54 AM

24. And this is why I no longer watch the news...it is an all out attack on president Biden where as

Trump's enormous sins were tolerated and excused. And Biden didn't do anything. In the end, I believe the media has hurt their credibility...most of my family won't watch cable news anymore. I sure won't.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Thu Aug 26, 2021, 11:04 PM

7. And this solider has the latest intelligence? Seriously..why make a bad situation worse

By going on cable and bashing Biden, the Intelligence community and our military!

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Response to PortTack (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:55 AM

26. Exactly...I am beyond furious.

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Response to PortTack (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:27 AM

35. Exactly!

We need to stop this crap.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Thu Aug 26, 2021, 11:08 PM

8. Who was the host? Did he ask the question how many airports can we keep open

with 2500 troops? Seems like a good question.

So I guess this Ackerman guy was in favor of more war in Afghanistan if he thought we should put more troops back in for more airports. And I guess he feels that Trump cut too many troops if that’s what he thinks. But did that come up from the host as a question (what troops Trump left Biden)?

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Response to GoodRaisin (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:06 AM

18. Don Lemon and I agree lemon could have asked him a lot more

but basically Lemon let the guy rant

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 10:02 AM

36. Of course.

The entire purpose of that segment was to dishonestly place all the blame on Biden.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 12:08 AM

11. I must admit, it's "amusing" to watch my Republican friends...

…and this includes the never-Trumpers, suddenly develop a sense of moral outrage over how the Biden administration has “shamefully led us to defeat, and the people of Afghanistan to slavery,” when I don’t recall a single peep of protest from any of them when TFG was paling it up with the Taliban, cutting a deal with them without even including the government of Afghanistan in on it, and then drawing our troop levels down to a point when the past month’s events would be inevitable. What is more “shameful,” trying to pull off as massive an evacuation as possible, or inviting the f*cking Taliban to Camp David on the eve of 9/11?

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:08 AM

19. Yes, it's really maddening how they completely ignored Afghanistan and what TFG was doing

and then go after Biden for a mess TFG made... but they are maddening people in general

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 12:09 AM

12. Opinions and assholes. Everyone knows the rest.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 06:15 PM

39. Biden deserves a lot of credit for pulling out.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 06:42 PM

47. We started in Feb 2020.

Unfortunately the last admin did not get Visa applications processed. It took Biden 5 weeks after taking office to get Republicans in congress to do their job and fix the trouble.

Since early March the Biden admin has set a record for volume productivity in this regard.

Since early March the State dept has been telling Americans and Visa holders to get out. Since Jan there have been 77 ISIS attacks in Afghanistan. It was known the Taliban was already in control of some areas.

There were flights out every day. United airlines went with larger planes but found there were too many empty seats.

The knowledge and opportunity were there. Faulting Biden because people made a choice to wait is kinda Trumpy.

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Response to KentuckyWoman (Reply #47)

Sat Aug 28, 2021, 03:37 PM

50. Agreed.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Sun Aug 29, 2021, 07:56 AM

54. Now this asshole writes an incredibly harsh op-ed against Biden for the NYTimes

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/28/opinion/afghanistan-biden-evacuation.html

Ugh. This piece seems like it could be in Newsmax or some rightwing site.

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