General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWith climate change being a scientific fact, why do people still live in hurricane zones?
Or in areas out west where forest fires are going to get worse and worse?
There are those who would wish to move but do not have the financial resources to do so but that can't apply to all the millions who live there.
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Scrivener7
(59,784 posts)Where I live we get a lot of hurricanes. We generally weather them pretty well, sometimes getting lowland flooding and sometimes loss of power for a few days. Almost never loss of life.
Where would I move that is safer? Where is there that is not subject to hurricanes, deadly blizzards, fires, droughts, tornadoes, volcano eruptions or red state policies?
Kaleva
(40,375 posts)I'd start doing research on line if I were you.
Scrivener7
(59,784 posts)Kaleva
(40,375 posts)Scrivener7
(59,784 posts)moving.
Kaleva
(40,375 posts)Scrivener7
(59,784 posts)Kaleva
(40,375 posts)
Croney
(5,018 posts)I wouldn't want them to all just pick up and move here to Massachusetts with their conservative evangelical votes.
we can do it
(13,031 posts)Was doing a great job with Covid initially, now killing yourselves with hateful stupidity.
Walleye
(45,075 posts)
we can do it
(13,031 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)No earthquakes above 2.0 or so. Occasional hurricanes, but they seem to prefer the Jersey coast. Rare tornadoes. Snow is mild in winter. No volcanoes. Very boring place.
we can do it
(13,031 posts)
Polly Hennessey
(8,881 posts)Really, there are climate problems everywhere.
EYESORE 9001
(29,807 posts)You could tumble into an open pit mine, I suppose.
Scrivener7
(59,784 posts)EYESORE 9001
(29,807 posts)if you’re a raccoon or possum.
leftyladyfrommo
(20,013 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 28, 2021, 10:28 AM - Edit history (1)
It all goes around us.
Scrivener7
(59,784 posts)leftyladyfrommo
(20,013 posts)It's the rural areas that are bad.
Scrivener7
(59,784 posts)parts and it's as red as it gets. 
PoindexterOglethorpe
(28,493 posts)leftyladyfrommo
(20,013 posts)do a good job but KCMO is so diversified it's hard to please everyone. I think he's getting ready to run for governor.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(28,493 posts)He's smart, competent, somewhat charismatic, and of course they can't forgive him for being Black.
I know him because my sons went to school with him at Barstow.
rownesheck
(2,343 posts)place in the country has some natural disaster. Hurricanes in the south, tornadoes on the plains, blizzards in the north, forest fires and mudslides and earthquakes in the west. You can't escape everything.
Pick your poison.
Kaleva
(40,375 posts)The North East is supposed to get worse.
Do I really want to live in the upper Midwest? Just kidding. But I guarantee some new disaster will hit there eventually. Probably over population at that point.
we can do it
(13,031 posts)former9thward
(33,424 posts)If we lived to be 1000 it might be a consideration. Its not when your adult life is around 60 years.
iemanja
(57,771 posts)and don't send them.
misanthrope
(9,514 posts)There's a section of the inner Deep South known as Dixie Alley for its twister activity.
cinematicdiversions
(1,969 posts)Though it is a beautiful city with some of the cheapest housing in America.
Hurricane Zones are basically all of the Gulf coast and the Atlantic coast.
Of course if you include earthquake, fire and tornado prone areas you leave yourself with about six US cities to live in.
we can do it
(13,031 posts)You are correct about tornados....and there are earthquakes and blizzards.
cinematicdiversions
(1,969 posts)
Scrivener7
(59,784 posts)Many of those in the video seem to be in very red areas. I maintain that that is a very dangerous feature. As we are seeing now.
we can do it
(13,031 posts)we can do it
(13,031 posts)cinematicdiversions
(1,969 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(70,216 posts)The first two were Laredo, Texas, and Tyler, Texas.
bamagal62
(4,516 posts)They are right wing religious homeschooling nut bags.
susanr516
(1,514 posts)I wouldn't live in Tyler if you gave me a nice house and 5 grand per month. It's a blood red cesspool up there.
Politicub
(12,332 posts)and classist and racist at worst. Most of them are products of public relations.
It’s fun to see the city where one lives on a list, though.
we can do it
(13,031 posts)
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)them when good things outweigh the bad.
Or, sometimes we're just stupid.
we can do it
(13,031 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)the phone and he yelled "OH SHIT" and I heard this huge noise. A minute or so later he said he ran down the cellar because a tornado just went by.
Nothing to mess with, those tornados
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Or locust zones? Or trailer parks? No place is perfect, really... but I guess you've got to live somewhere. And if you're born there, it's all you know. And I guess some people don't have as many resources or options as others do.
Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)30 of them in Silicon Valley, then 31 in a small town 150 miles north of that in the wine country. I'm too old to get used to another area. We have family and very deep roots here. It's also cheap, and we're not rich. Lately, when I visit another state, I feel like I am in a foreign country. That's not meant to be a knock on other states, it's just how comfortable I am where I live now. I know all my local government folks, the police, I'm civically involved in my community, and we have a good medical network that has well taken care of and are familiar with our medical situations.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... explanation and description was perfect.
Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)One thing I've learned is don't come here if you're looking for a fight.
I should add there are times I wish I had left here when I was younger. I was born in Maryland and still have a few relatives who live there. I wonder what my life would be like if I had moved there 30 years ago. Oh, well, we only get one life and never enough time to do everything. I'm just trying to get from birth to earth with as little trouble as possible. I count my lucky stars that I have a partner to share it with.
moonscape
(5,781 posts)are in Western NC but I've been on the Central Coast for 45 years. The drought and fires are scaring me, and I'd be economically better off in my very purple to liberal area of NC with childhood friends and roots. But ... our weather! My medical teams! My history! The sea!
Tough choices. Yours is far more clear than mine and a no-brainer really. I too would stay without question.
Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)which was really about retirement downsizing, but is also somewhat safer regarding fires, although almost nowhwere except the desert or the beach is totally safe. Our old house was in a more wooded area. We now live in what passes in our county as a city. Really a small town of about 10,000 people. Were in a senior mobile home park with almost no trees, but mobile homes themselves are less fire safe than a regular house. If the one next to you burns, yours will at least be damaged. Get a few of them going and they can go down like dominoes. The fire station is just one mile away, though.
delisen
(7,394 posts)In regard to climate change there are a few places thought to be relatively safe in the world. To see where they are follow the billionaire money. The rest of us will not be able to afford those.
As for places in the US, remember what happened in the 1930s Dust Bowl and how the Migrating Okies were treated in California.
That said, I do believe middle class and poor people should start leaving someday now if they want to invest in property.
marie999
(3,334 posts)My husband and I don't need it, but we have 9 grandchildren and 13 great-grandchildren.
Kaleva
(40,375 posts)It would be wise to move now to a place projected by scientists to be not so dangerous now and have the time to become an accepted member of the local community and build a mutual support network rather then wait till later
delisen
(7,394 posts)delisen
(7,394 posts)delisen
(7,394 posts)In regard to climate change there are a few places thought to be relatively safe in the world. To see where they are follow the billionaire money. The rest of us will not be able to afford those.
As for places in the US, remember what happened in the 1930s Dust Bowl and how the Migrating Okies were treated in California.
That said, I do believe middle class and poor people should start leaving someday now if they want to invest in property.
ananda
(35,287 posts)I just couldn't take the hurricanes and floods
at an older age.
Lochloosa
(16,758 posts)I know how to survive a hurricane. At least I know its coming.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)Edit: they don't seem to have included river flooding, which has hit parts of the Upper Midwest pretty hard some Springs.
Kaleva
(40,375 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)
blogslug
(39,189 posts)Also, I think maybe you underestimate just how many people can't afford to move for any reason.
zuul
(14,704 posts)Leave your job, leave your family, leave your friends and your entire social network, sell your house, buy a new house, find a new job . . . and do all this so you can move blindly to an area where you know absolutely no one.
Why aren’t we dummies just leaving?
This
leftstreet
(41,056 posts)Maybe someone should look into not burning coal or oil or something
The burden of change shouldn't fall on the working classes
"Why don't you just move?"
Well, because my job, my friends, my entire social network, all my favorite places to go, the life I've built for 30+ years is all here where I live. Moving is traumatic and intensely disruptive, and fear is not a sufficient motivator. I would only move if I were moving FOR something very exciting that I really want.
GoCubsGo
(34,947 posts)bem6207
(66 posts)From the Jackson, Ms airport.
Family and friends from New Orleans evacuated to our home during Katrina. We only had power outage for 2 days, but had a generator.
My office made the decision for us to telework next week to be on the safe side. I get a terrible feeling for this storm.
The scary thing is…. family and friends on the coast are not leaving this time. They have driven up on numerous different occasions that wound up being “false alarms”, and are taking their chances. As are most of the residents along the coast.
This is exactly what happened before Katrina and I am a nervous wreck about it.
Why is that the people in less impacted areas take more precaution than those who are in path for direct threat?
zuul
(14,704 posts)The levee system has been improved since Katrina. People who live outside the levee system should absolutely leave, but my house is within the levee system and it didn't flood during Katrina. Storm surge is what worries me the most in New Orleans and, based on other hurricanes over the last 20 years, I believe my neighborhood won't flood from storm surge.
I have 4 cats in my house and 6 in my back yard. There is no way I could evacuate all 10 of them with me and there is no way I would abandon them to starve.
We will probably lose power and there will be localized flooding due to rain. Ida has been moving at 15-16 mph for the last 48 hours. That's pretty fast for a big storm. The slow-moving storms are the worst because they just sit on top of you and dump rain for days, hampering the ability of electrical companies to make repairs. I am hopeful that Ida won't stay for long.
Other reasons why people choose to stay:
Most service stations ran out of gas yesterday, so if you didn't fill up already, you cannot find gas. I filled my car on Thursday, even though I was planning to stay, because the pumps won't work once the power is out.
The main artery (I-10, which runs both east and west out of New Orleans, the directions evacuees are supposed to go) was already clogged with cars trying to escape at 7:00 this morning. Anyone who wanted to leave should have been on the road early this morning, at the latest.
A lot of people are more afraid of COVID than a hurricane.
bem6207
(66 posts)She didn’t move back to New Orleans after Katrina.
I just talked to her and they are waiting to see where it lands.
I love your Mayor by the way. I was watching her speak earlier.
The idiots here despise her, but she is sharp as a whip and knows how to handle business.
You guys be safe down there and take care.
zuul
(14,704 posts)I met her in our office building elevator during the run-off election. Both candidates were Black women and I told her ‘either way it’s an historic race because New Orleans has never had a female mayor, much less a Black woman.”
She proceeded to tell me all the ways that she was the better candidate. All I could say was ‘Yes, ma’am.’
My mother and my sister live in Gulfport. I’m not too worried about them. They’re on high ground (31 feet above sea level) and they have a generator. I’m jealous. There’s no gas service on my street or I would have bought a generator years ago.
misanthrope
(9,514 posts)People become callused to the breathless excitement and overplayed video. Then they stop believing the warnings.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)We know the ocean level will rise in the next several decades
Walleye
(45,075 posts)
malaise
(296,866 posts)
MineralMan
(151,410 posts)For most people, moving from where they live isn't a realistic option. Financial, family, and other issue often make a move like that impractical or even impossible.
People work where they live. Could they find another job if they moved? Maybe, but maybe not.
If everyone is leaving a place, property values plunge, as well. Most places that are hurricane zones are also attractive to tourists, since they generally are near seashore areas. Many people make their livings at businesses that cater to those tourists.
Others have family members living in the area, many of whom may need their assistance.
It's a complicated question, with as many answers as there are people in the places you're talking about.
Kaleva
(40,375 posts)For now, for most people, I suspect they feel it's something that will happen to others or far down the future so employment, connections with family, roots take precedence.
The people who are proactive and see what's coming may have a better chance of survival.
misanthrope
(9,514 posts)While experts say climate change translates to stronger hurricanes, not more frequent ones, I have personal doubts. If the strength is amplified by more available atmospheric energy, then wouldn't that also mean tropical storms have access to the same energy? That would strengthen them to hurricanes, would it not?
More storms mean more periods with interruptions of utilities. Before the advent of air conditioning on the Gulf Coast, mosquito-borne outbreaks of disease like yellow fever were rampant.
Most of all, the increase of wet bulb temperatures along the Gulf Coast will make for deadlier summers. The region already boasts some of the highest wet bulb conditions in the nation, often barely under the threshold of "dangerous" levels. As the global temps tick upward, this will become a very real issue around the Gulf of Mexico.
Baitball Blogger
(52,487 posts)For the next real estate village concept, maybe we should locate land where nothing bad happens, and build there.
dameatball
(7,671 posts)there. However, as my adult children in FL were expanding their families and careers, I realized I was missing a lot. Moved back after 12 years in 2019. Both are red areas imo, but pretty quiet for the most part.
Despite global warming, Florida is still a beautiful place to live, at least for now. Probably good for my remaining years. I do think Florida people in general have changed since I was growing up. If I could convince family to pack it up and move back to the mountains I would.
yardwork
(69,466 posts)Many people have long histories and deep roots in the communities where they live. Their entire social net is there. Extended family, lifelong friends, everybody's jobs.
Others - like myself - made choices decades ago that brought us to where we live, and our families have grown up around us. I would love to leave the southeast. I didn't grow up here, and as the years have passed I've grown weary of the sexism and racism, as well as other dysfunctional passive-aggressive behaviors that I believe stem from a long history of slavery and Jim Crow. But my grown children are here. My aging mother is now here, and she's too frail to move. My job is here, and I'm nearing retirement. Sure, I could go someplace else in a few years, but my wife and I don't want to leave our kids.
These are some reasons why people hang on.
Nay
(12,051 posts)grandma and my life would have been much poorer if I had not had that pleasure. I also agree with you over the casual sexism, racism, provincialism, etc., of the SE; but I'm old and don't socialize much, and live near a city that provides an acceptable level of culture and intellectualism.
Kaleva
(40,375 posts)Just curious.
f I was living down in Florida or along the Gulf Coast, I'd be in the same situation you are. My wife would refuse to leave as almost all of her children and our grandchildren live within walking distance of our home along with her father. I'd bring up the subject of relocating but there's no way to say if i could successfully convince them so my other option would be to work as hard as i could to prepare for what was coming.
yardwork
(69,466 posts)Kaleva
(40,375 posts)You were talking about your situation as a possible reason why others may not move. You weren't talking about yourself specifically.
albacore
(2,747 posts)We have a lot of good stuff in Western Washington... jobs...reasonable weather...beautiful scenery...etc.
But.
A) The infrastructure can barely handle the influx now.... 100,000 per year for the last 10 years.
&
B) We are long overdue for the Big One... a massive earthquake that would literally change the geography of the Puget Sound region.
No area is entirely safe...from Nature, or from MAGA... but folks who can need to get out of the most dangerous places for both those kinds of disasters.
Politicub
(12,332 posts)cities are established and incredible places to live. I don’t think this is a shallow view, but part of a broader one.
It may be getting to the point of when hurricanes become too severe for cities like New Orleans to remain viable, but it would be a cultural loss to abandon it right now.
Hurricanes are dramatic and devastating events, but climate change will have an effect on most everywhere. Droughts are creating water scarcity issues in wide, populous swaths of the country. Another dust bowl would upend many cities in the Midwest. Just two weeks ago, widespread, deadly flooding destroyed a tremendous amount of property and lives in the mountains of Western North Carolina. Here in Atlanta, we are hit with tropical storms and tornadoes.
Abandonment is a bandaid. Policy and human behavior must change; it is not viable to uproot massive populations over and over again.
Kaleva
(40,375 posts)Which, if true, leaves abandonment as the only viable option
The goal of Biden's ambitious plan to to delay the approach of the worst of climate change.
"President Joe Biden pledged Thursday to slash U.S. emissions of greenhouse gases in at least half by 2030 — an ambitious target that will require retooling the world's largest economy in an effort to put the U.S. at the forefront of the international campaign to slow climate change."
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/22/biden-climate-goal-congress-484141
chowder66
(12,349 posts)Some may not be able to sell their homes depending on how badly situated their property is.
Some are used to it and live with it because it's their home and it's all they've known or want to know.
Some may be old or disabled and can't manage a move.
Some won't budge and will go down with the ship (think anti-vaxxers and pet medicine takers), but there will be those that aren't in that group that think the same way.
Some are in areas in the path of destruction but end up doing okay or even get missed altogether.
Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)the entire State of Massachusetts. The population of the county is about 230,000. There have been roughly 23,000 cases of Covid in the county since the pandemic began, I suspect most of them among older anti-mask, anti-vax Republicans, who I avoid like the plague, pun intended.
Massachusetts, on the other hand, has seen about 753,795 cases of Covid since the pandemic began.
There have been 577 deaths from Covid in the county, 370 of which have occurred in the 3 largest towns in the county, which I have the luxury of being able to avoid, because I have lots of space and option to avoid people. There have been 23,300 cases of Covid in the county, 17,100 of which have been among the residents of the 5 largest towns in the county. So 75% of the Covid infections in the county have been among the residents of about 1% of the land area of a county the size of Massachusetts.
As far as I know, nobody in the county has died, or become severely ill, because of a forest fire, since the pandemic began.
Like most rural progressive westerners, I'm way more concerned about Covid affecting my life than I am about forest fires affecting my life. Except that it is crushing to see the devastation that climate change caused forest fires are causing to our beautiful wild lands.
Kaleva
(40,375 posts)you probably have little reason to consider moving. Unlike those where forest fires are becoming more common or in hurricane zones.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I’ve been through countless hurricanes and tropical storms. Including major storms. It you have a strongly built home, out of a flood zone and no big trees close to the home you are fine.
But I’m not in coastal Louisiana which is so low and sinking. I’m on a sand hill in Florida. If my home floods build an ark!
I’ll have the boat on the gulf within 2 weeks catching fish and enjoy nature.
My wife’s from the rural Midwest. No hurricanes, no earthquakes and few tornadoes. But full of the most inane white bread white people and shitty food I can imagine. I’ll take my chances with hurricanes before moving to a hellhole like that.
And 40 degrees a mild day in January? No thank you! I wear a jacket at 70.
cinematicdiversions
(1,969 posts)Now admittedly I am in the one place that hasn't seen a real hurricane for hundred years. (Though the newscasts every May and June would not lead you to believe that.)
But like you said, I am out of the flood zone and surge zone and like a smart little pig I have a stone house with a new roof. Heck, even our local power lines are underground, so we didn't even lose power during IRMA.
It is a minor inconvenience for most people. That said I remember the devastation south of me When Charlie hit and all the stone buildings in the world wouldn't save you from that.
ripcord
(5,553 posts)With the massive wildfires and earthquakes? Because it is home.
Kaleva
(40,375 posts)brooklynite
(96,882 posts)There have also been people living in tornado zone before climate change…
And people have been living in snow zones before climate change.
People choose to live in areas for a range of historical, career and lifestyle reasons. Conversely, not every person has the ability or resources to move elsewhere.
WarGamer
(18,733 posts)I think of an Estonian chocolatier named KALEV...
They make WONDERFUL chocolates... now I'm going to need to order more from EBay again!!
misanthrope
(9,514 posts)I am a poor fit for this Gulf Coast town. My values are askew from the locals. The cultural/artistic offerings are slim and mostly not my taste.
It would be easier for me to find work in another market, one that matters more to the national outlets I freelance for. Even local outlets that want something other than boosterism, or blowing smoke up readers' derrieres.
I'm an even worse meteorological fit here. My doctors said in light of my medical disability, my quality of life would be greatly enhanced by relocation.
I don't really have any family here. I relocated after high school, moving from a place with a different culture into this one. It's not as hard as many fear. If you find new experiences and adventures invigorating, it's even easier. But you learn how and why you fit or don't fit.
My wife isn't like that. When we met, she constantly groused about this place where her extensive family has been for generations. "Hate" was the word she often used.
So I took her to the West Coast to visit friends. I thought she would like it. We even had someone offer us job interviews while out there, but she monkey-wrenched the opportunity with an insistence on returning home post haste.
Later, I paid for her to visit the PNW with me. I talked up the opportunities there and emphasized its better fit with my medical issues. She failed to take any initiative to leave.
I eventually realized her derision of her hometown wasn't based in a desire to relocate. She just likes to complain.
So my mental and physical health be damned, her only aim right now is to move into her parents' old house, her childhood home, and wait out the end of her life. She won't agree to psychological counseling either.
So here we stay, the climate becoming more hostile to my health with each decade.
ornotna
(11,519 posts)As well. And yet here we are. 