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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRichard Engel is not reporting. He is delivering an anti-Biden rant. In his version, wartime
was springtime in Afghanistan. Honestly, I found his appearance on Nicole Wallacess show on MSNBC shocking for his vitriol.
Ninga
(8,277 posts)Matthew Dowd to finally speak sense about the withdrawal on that panel. Something that needed to be done and Biden had the stones to do it.
Spazito
(50,482 posts)I really like him but, in this case, he has lost perspective and has become too close to the story and is taking everything personally, imo.
Moebym
(989 posts)I'm not watching as I don't have cable, but I sure hope Nicolle pushed back.
2naSalit
(86,798 posts)Therefore, compromised and should not be broadcasting at this time.
agingdem
(7,859 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 30, 2021, 10:07 PM - Edit history (1)
Richard Engel
War Correspondent
Have Microphone/Will Travel
He's had a 20 year run as the on the ground go-to war guy...he's pissed..having a hard time letting go...
2naSalit
(86,798 posts)Last edited Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:10 AM - Edit history (1)
Or Syria or some other war torn place. Yeah, I get that he's pissed that his favorite war is over but he'll just have to get over it.
I just submitted a complaint about his lack of objectivity in reporting of late to MSNBC. I think his current attitude is dangerous, like that of all the other war profiteers who are screaming bloody murder over the killing of their cash cow. Totally out of line with his rants.
He needs to go home and get some counseling.
agingdem
(7,859 posts)and if Richard is really desperate he can wade into the AOC/Marjorie Taylor Greene slugfest...
chillfactor
(7,584 posts)disgusting rant.
True Blue American
(17,988 posts)A very lucrative job! He is angry.
Paladin
(28,275 posts)I switched over to a sports channel. If you can't register some relief about the ending of a pointless, $3 trillion, 20-year war---particularly after trump fucked things up so badly and left it for Biden to conclude---then to hell with you.
True Blue American
(17,988 posts)Credit for his very wise decision. Richard lost a lot of fans with his tirade today. I used to admire him.
tetedur
(820 posts)300,000 were trained. Why weren't they serious enough to use their skills to hold on to the freedoms they attained?
I seriously would want anyone to answer that question. No one is asking it.
TheRealNorth
(9,500 posts)Put down the microphone and pick up a rifle, Richard, if you believe it so much.
But I don't think it's worth losing more American lives for freedoms that most Afghan people are not willing to fight for.
Frankly, the only soldiers they interview are highly trained Afghan Special Forces, who got paid more and were motivated. They never bothered with the average Afghan grunt.
Maybe if he did his job and actually talked to the average Afghan soldier instead of whoever was paraded in front of him, what happened wouldn't have been much of a surprise.
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)Richard Engel, Danger is My Game
Thrill
(19,178 posts)Theyll act like they care so much about the people still there now
Comfortably_Numb
(3,827 posts)hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)Same as those who work in a foreign nation long enough. They can provide impressive anecdotal background, but there is no way they can see the big picture (nor even know all that is ongoing and which SHOULD provide context to decisions and actions being made). Emotions are not objective and at this point all of the long-term reporters and previous military deployed in past years to the area are all impacted by that.
Tetrachloride
(7,873 posts)If experience is not valued, then we are saying inexperience is valued.
I would rather critique tangible sentences and photos. i would like to critique tangible items (Kabul neighborhood was.....).
i saw a picture of modern Saigon which looked pretty good. Pictures are a help. There are not enough pictures from around the world in US media.
hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)even while their anecdotal reporting is impressive. A loss of perspective becomes problematic in all manner of fields, including medicine when a doctor becomes too personally involved with their patients and thus lose objectivity. Same kind of issue with foreign reporters and some of the military upon return home It is a natural phenomenon--at least for those who come to care about the people upon which they report or serve.
In this context, however, it can and has becomes problematic-- not merely for Engel.
But no, your point is misdirected since I never said, nor would I ever say that experience is not valuable. Two very different issues.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)Thats whats truly stuck in his craw. Hes addicted to mayhem.
Response to emmaverybo (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Me.
(35,454 posts)and I'm fed up with his and other's rants
Tetrachloride
(7,873 posts)Tonight, i received a tutorial on Jordan.
i suggest another term besides going native.
Me.
(35,454 posts)However, I agree with post #4, that he has lost his perspective.
RockRaven
(15,006 posts)And that's all been exposed for the fraud that it was. He's facing irrelevance and professional embarrassment at the same time. Of course he's mad.
PortTack
(32,796 posts)liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)It's almost as if certain entities stand to lose a lot of money or something. President Biden pissed off the war profiteers, that's for sure.
2naSalit
(86,798 posts)sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,460 posts)There are Emmys to be won. Book deals to sign.
At least he admitted that Donnie gave away Afghanistan to the Taliban when he signed the Treaty.
UTUSN
(70,744 posts)JoanofArgh
(14,971 posts)emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)mcar
(42,376 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)She offered a good perspective. Did you see it?
PA Democrat
(13,225 posts)I read this book shortly after the US invaded Iraq because I was adamantly opposed to the war and could not understand how the majority of Americans supported it.
Chris Hedges worked as a war correspondent for years and bore witness to the most horrific atrocities committed during conflict and the ways in which everyday citizens are convinced that the battle is necessary through the dehumanization of the enemy, the narrative of the "nobility" of the cause and the inability to acknowledge failure.
He also writes of the addictive nature of the adrenaline rush, the feeling of exhilaration experienced by participants in war including those covering the war.
Engel almost seems like he is unraveling on air. I have long admired his brave coverage the US wars in the Middle East, and it saddens me to see him focusing so much vitriol on Biden.
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)BComplex
(8,066 posts)Biden does. Engel is an adrenaline junky...he loves the smell of war so that he can report on it.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)What is the gist of his critique? We should have stayed?
I've seen that argument made on DU; go back on the agreement with the Taliban, and keep a small force to prop up the Afghan Army indefinitely.
Or is that our withdrawal doesn't match the ideal withdrawal that has never existed?
rickyhall
(4,889 posts)Tetrachloride
(7,873 posts)then is possible to agree or disagree with a clearer conscience.
JoanofArgh
(14,971 posts)Tetrachloride
(7,873 posts)kairos12
(12,873 posts)emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)FreepFryer
(7,077 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)western civilization in a ME Muslim nation, but I think people are being too hard on him and on his daring to give a different viewpoint. We don't wait for pundits tell us what to say and then all "think" and say it. And we should be able to examine honest criticism honestly.
Right or wrong in whether we should have held Afghanistan to control Muslim aggression and terrorism, it's not as if Engel doesn't know a very great deal about the region and Islam. And, above all for me, he believes in western liberal rights and principles, and his grief for having them snatched away from those in Afghanistan who shared them is real. And admirable. We can be glad to end this occupation and not be outraged to learn that a person like Engel feels it was wrong and mistaken, and potentially disastrous.
His view about what this means for power in the ME was grim. That "hole" filled by religious Muslim extremists. Obama didn't just want out of Afghanistan, he wanted to reduce our involvement in the whole ME to a minimum necessary given its constant problems. What does come next? We already have much of Islam engaging in religious war against us, we certainly don't want it ramped up, encouraged by China and Russia.
Civilization? Not strange that a believer in liberal principles grieves for what's going to happen to people he's actually met and known. I like to think the advance of ideas that's changing the whole world, including Islam -- and even Afghanistan -- is much bigger and a far more powerful force for change than our presence there. That the humanitarian changes during our time there reflected its power far more than ours and will ultimately defeat Islamic extremism. Unrealistic and irrelevant to current problems? Not for another century anyway?
On the 16th, with Kabul's government collapsing as suddenly as those condos in Florida, Engel said he was only surprised that others were claiming to be surprised, that people knew two or three months before that it would happen in Kabul, that he himself estimated it would happen right around when it did, that people had been seeing the Taliban take territory without having to fight for it "months ago." And that Kabul's own security forces were stripping off their uniforms to look more like Taliban ahead of the Taliban's arrival.
Obama said we needed to end the occupation, tRump effectively surrendered long before he did more officially at Doha, and Biden had long promised to get us out. Meanwhile Taliban had been advancing control over large areas of the country for years. Were people really as unbelieving that we'd leave as Engel said?
Since Engel believes strongly that we should have stayed, what does he believe that would have taken and for how long? We can't control our own RW; aside from their Taliban, how do the rest of Afghanistan's conservatives feel about us? He knows, and I'd like more of the conversation he started.
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)experience and knowledge. Passionate advocacy is one thing, sheer vitriol against this president without context and perspective is another. He also was inaccurate on some things. And Biden did not surrender, the Afghan army and their crooked leader did. Has Engel no other way to advocate
for Afghan fellows and freedoms and his own vision for them than to foam at the mouth on television over the guy who got about a hundred thousand out? Doubtful Engel could do better. Doubtful with all his war experience he understands the logistics involved, just how monumental the task is.
No one would fault him for standing by the Afghani people, pointing out operational mistakes, feeling passionately sad about the draconian conditions Taliban will impose upon so many activists, loyal aides, women and girls, and the bloody retaliation they will take.
But he is wrong and damaging to put all this on Biden. And as a reporter, he is simply being irresponsible and self indulgent.
Good job explaining how he feels and supporting him in his moral outrage, but we can not have
reporters making their feelings the story or using their credentials to unjustly assault our president
so beleaguered as it is, unfairly maligned and under a terrible set of circumstances as he tries to save people by the tens of thousands.
Not the time and place. Not Engels job.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I saw him on Wallace in a discussion show interview, not a news report. Strictly speaking, neither MSNBC nor CNN are news networks but offer a hybrid or mix of political opinion/discussion and occasional reporting by journalists.