Biden is getting crucified

[EndlessWire]

by many different sources. the latest thing I have read is that families of the dead marines feel that he was disrespectful when receiving their caskets back home. Apparently, he looked at his watch several times. Apparently, he talked about his own son. Apparently, they don't think that their children's sacrifice had to happen.

I think you can't win for losing here. Their kids are dead. They're in some phase of the grieving process. But, I would have to say, 1) we don't know why he looked at his watch. Maybe it was set to Kabul time. Maybe he was stressed because he had a meeting with someone important. Maybe he was waiting for news of something. We just don't know. He's the President. 2) What he has in common with the parents is his own military kid. Is it really so bad that he mentioned this connection to a parent? It only indicates that he understands what they might be feeling. 3) Burn in hell, Trump. There never was going to be a good outcome after he effed it up. Less was said about the Kurds who got royally shafted, because the news media didn't care to make an issue of it. Who cares about Kurdish allies getting murdered when Erdogan is your buddy? But, let Joe have to come along and clean up your mess, and let's kick him to the curb. Joe didn't let 5,000 maniacal prisoners out of jail. Trump did. Joe didn't know that the Afghan army would cut and run. He didn't know that the Afghan president would disappear into a neighboring country, and that the government would dissolve. Instead, he did the best he could and did a major airlift, along with our allies, and tried to get everyone out. And, after the attack, he kept firm to the objective and resisted temptation.

I am pro Biden. I am an armchair warrior like all the rest. But, I'd have to say, that I take a dim view of current soldiers opening their yaps and criticizing Biden's choices behind his back. They are not free to do this. We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. I do not think that Biden is a coward, nor stupid. Character counts. I think there were no good choices here. I would have processed papers out of country, but other than that, the situation sucked big time.

The governments in the ME are not our friends. The people can be, but let China get it's ass kicked by the Taliban now. It's their turn. Twenty years and a trillion dollars, and the Afghan army lays down its weapons and quits. The Taliban are going to show their intent and character now. I feel bad for the people, but they should have fought for their country.

Nothing the main stream media says will change my mind about Joe. So, now we have to hear about his being "disrespectful" to fallen soldiers. Hell, he came to receive them, along with the First Lady. At least he didn't mean mouth them like Trump did, or refuse to go because of weather, like Trump did.

I'll cut the parents a lot of slack. But, everyone else can go to hell.

[NJCher]

1. don't agree

I think you can't win for losing here.

I've been looking at a number of sites today and there are lots of articles out that take his point of view.

See The Hill: In Afghanistan, President Biden had to play the losing hand his predecessors dealt him

And both Wash. Post and NY Times have opinions out today that support his move on Afghanistan.

I knew these types of articles would start popping up after reporters/writers had a chance to process some of the Afghanistan events.

[rockfordfile]

21. The Hill is right-wing

[NJCher]

33. all the more important

because they are saying his predecessors dealt him a bad hand.

[yobrault1]

46. exactly...

it's the context that often gets blurred in the moment. Upon reflection, if you have a shit hand, you have a shit hand and you have to fold. Trump left a dumpster fire of a foreign policy which he ignited on the way out the door and Biden could either have re-invaded the nation, or ask for a more realistic timeline beyond May 1 and get the hell out of a losing proposition. It was never supposed to be nation building by the allied forces, it was a mission to route out Al Qaeda which they did years ago. It was time to go and Trump exacerbated the situation by releasing the Taliban leadership with Russia and China's prompting. If he was in office now, it would be much more of a shit show and there is no way 100+K Afghani's would have been rescued. It'll take time for the fog to lift for most reasonable people to see this. I pray it's before they need to.

[calimary]

60. Indeed. At least they're pointing that out.

And it absolutely SHOULD be pointed out.

He did the right thing. Or maybe we should ask how much is enough spending as we tally up the BILLIONS of dollars basically thrown down a rat hole over there? How many more lives of our troops should be sacrificed on that “altar of useless waste”?

I think the U.S. needs to reassess our role in the world, and this hard-on we seem to cling to - about “nation-building” in parts of the world where they DON’T see things the way we do, don’t believe the same things we do, don’t worship the same way we do, don’t want or value the same things we do, and don’t live the same way we do.

[Bev54]

55. Some writers are right wing some are not, just like Politico

[onetexan]

49. The sensible voices like The Atlantic are speaking up for Biden

To hell w the rest of them - CNN included.

[cilla4progress]

68. I'm with you,

Cher.

I don't believe Biden would look at his watch as if impatient; if anything, he could have been looking down because he was choked up.

I sense the tide turning in Biden's direction, as well. Maybe it won't last ...

[Moebym]

2. Biden would never disrespect the families of fallen soldiers

That behavior is antithetical to who he is as a person. He's long said that he considers honoring the troops to be the most sacred duty of a President.

I won't say any more than that, as emotions are still raw and grief messes with the mind. The most important thing to take away is that he was present and spent time with each family.

I'd recommend everyone watch this video of a speech he gave about nine years ago (years before Beau died) to gold star families:

The man gets it.

[lagomorph777]

20. +1000 Anybody claiming that he disrespected these families is lying.

That is 180 degrees the exact opposite of who Joe Biden is, down to the core. The one thing he is mostly known for is empathy, especially in a context like this one.

[a kennedy]

36. one of the fathers, was on hannity's show blabbing about Joe talking too much about his own son.....

so I immediately just thought the guy was a hack, sorry he did lose his son, but to criticize the President over this whole debacle just isn’t worth my time or effort.

[lagomorph777]

43. Too stupid (or stubborn) to recognize that's how Biden expresses his understanding.

[GoodRaisin]

71. Or, too right wing.

Even in death blinded by ideology.

[lagomorph777]

82. Exactly.

[JHB]

73. If he was on Hannity's show, I figure the odds are high that he was front-loaded...

...to find fault with Biden and took everything he could shoehorn into that perspective.

Biden mentioning his son to say how he knew what they were going through? That's offensive!
Looked at his watch? Jump on it! Oh, the disrespect!

[GoCubsGo]

3. The fact that those family members went running to Hannity, and not

ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, NYT, WaPo, LA Times, etc., tells me all I need to know about the "crucifying." Not hearing those claims from the other 11 families, either. The Propaganda Channel and its clones are the only ones pushing this shit, along with their toadies on Twitter.

[treestar]

24. Quite true that whoever has negative things to say

gets the attention. Especially Fox. They'd be blathering on about Trump being wonderful and Trump wouldn't even have gone.

[lees1975]

31. Did they go to Hannity or did he find out who the two or three Trumpies were among them

and offer them some money to appear and badmouth Biden? That's his MO. He's a slimebag.

[GoCubsGo]

37. Most likely Hannity sought them out.

But, they were more than willing to oblige him. If they took money from him to spew what they did, then they're no better than he is.

[Ray Bruns]

41. That is what I was thinking. Funny they only showed up on FOX.

A bunch of Trumpists looking for anything to criticize Biden.

[MuseRider]

4. I would think people

would be hard pressed to think anything Biden has done comes close to calling dead soldiers "losers".

[Moebym]

7. In fact, he was PISSED when he read that article from The Atlantic

And very nearly lost his temper.

[Polly Hennessey]

5. He will be fine. I suspect the thirteen and

their families will soon fade away, sad to say. Does anyone remember the sixty-three who died during TFG’s term. Most likely not. I heard Leon Panetta desperately trying to beat the war drums by bringing up little hotspots around the world. Not once did I hear anything about domestic terrorism. I saw a portrait of a Golden Retriever on his mantel. I started to feel pangs of sympathy for him. I quickly changed channels.

[Ray Bruns]

39. Most Americans have the attention span of a gnat

In six months, it will be "Afghanistan? Where is Afghanistan?"

[Mr.Bill]

6. Politically, Biden's brilliance shows

by the fact he got this done as soon he could. By the next election he will look far better for doing this. Imagine if he had called the exit off. The headlines would be that Trump had the exit all set up and he threw it away. Blood on his hands for every soldier killed there from now on, and so on.

Does anyone today criticize Gerald Ford for getting us out of Vietnam? And with far worse optics, I must say.

[lagomorph777]

22. Absolutely correct.

Of course, the MAGATs will continue to crawl around in their own filth under their rocks forever, but normal people will have long moved on. The issues that matter in 2022 and 2024 will be:

(1) Voter suppression. We have to deal with this PRONTO or we're doomed, no matter how great our campaigns are run.

(2) COVID. We have to start enforcing vaccinations (private sector will probably have to lead the way on this).

(3) The economy. See (2).

[former9thward]

44. Our military exited Vietnam in Jan. 1973 when Nixon was president.

Ford was president during the final fall of Saigon in April 1975 and the US Embassy had to be evacuated. The iconic photo of a helicopter lifting off the roof of the Embassy is still with us. So we do remember it. In fact Biden refereed to that scene a month or so ago when he said Kabul would not fall like Saigon did.

[Mr.Bill]

56. So you are saying we had zero military personnel

in Vietnam after January 1973? Zero military personnel is my gauge for camparison purposes because that's where we are now in Afghanistan.

[former9thward]

61. Then by that definition we have military operations in most countries of the world.

Because not only do we have Marines guarding embassies everywhere but we have scores of military bases in countless countries. That is not a reasonable definition of combat operations. Our combat options ended with the Paris Peace Agreements in Jan 1973. But to your earlier point everyone does remember the embassy withdrawal in Vietnam including Biden.

[Mr.Bill]

63. Of course we do.

We don't even have an embassy in Afghanistan now. Our "helicopter left the building."

[Me.]

8. Sounds Like That Is Right Up There With Him Having A Stroke

Last edited Tue Aug 31, 2021, 03:22 PM - Edit history (1)

I'll bet a mil he didn't look at his watch. Aside from a disinclination to do so and be disrespectful, every politician in his age range knows what happened to Bush senior when he looked at his watch during a debate.

[JI7]

9. It is, the right wing always pushes the same talking points

and the mainstream media picks it up and reports on it .

[monkeyman1]

57. everybody on the internet needs to start useing ad blocker 's & starve the media !

no subscriptions & don't use pay wall's ! maybe we can get there attention ! these clown's are not journalists ! just drawing a damn pay check ! I don't do cable tv .

[Mr.Bill]

12. There is a snapshot of him looking at his watch.

What's in question is them saying he did it every time a casket came out of the plane, which I doubt. And for that matter, so what if he did?

[GoCubsGo]

19. I'm hearing that it was actually his deceased son's rosary, which was around his wrist.

I don't what is the truth here, but I am FAR more inclined to believe the rosary claim, given he is a very devout Catholic. The right sure loves to take a snapshot that is taken in a millisecond where a Democrat looks bad, and then makes hay of it.

[sarge43]

45. Surprized Faux didn't say his suit and tie weren't black enough.

President Biden knows in full measure the searing pain of losing a child.

Scum gotta be scum, amaright, Faux?

[Me.]

70. They Haven't Had Enough Time OR Didn't Think About It Yet?

[former9thward]

50. He was looking at his watch.

Biden is not the first politician to be caught during this while the cameras are shooting. If they are doing an event like this they should take off their watch. He is POTUS and there are a hundred people around him who can tell him what time it is or inform him of anything that needs to be done.

George Bush Sr. was blasted in 1992 for looking at his watch during a debate with Clinton.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2012/10/01/debate-fun-bush-checks-watch.cnn

[Me.]

78. They Are Already Referencing Bush

I don't think he meant to be disrespectful but I wish he hadn't done it.

You know looking at the pic again. Isn't that Beau's watch, was he looking at it because he was thinking of his dead son?

[Ray Bruns]

42. I watched the whole thing. I didn't see that.

[womanofthehills]

76. The photos are all over Social media being used big time by Republicans

You can see them online.

[Fullduplexxx]

10. Oh wow did he call them suckers and losers

[budkin]

11. The important thing is that the majority of America wanted OUT and he got us out.

Yes his approval will be down for a while due to the chaos but it'll recover in time.

[karynnj]

13. He did the right thing in a situation that was always going to be spun negatively by some

The meme for at least 2 weeks was the war ended badly. In addition, many of those killed likely were from families supporting Trump in a polarized country. They also just received the worst news a parent could get. They were there to receive the bodies.

Biden chose the hardest path of speaking individually to the parents, who then in some cases recounted what he said. He absolutely knew there was nothing he could say other than commending their loved one's service. For any President, this would be a very tough day. Biden's humanity and his own sorrows probably make it tougher.

However, NOT doing that, either not showing up or just speaking to the group would have been worse.

I do not think this will have a long term impact. It was always said that only those things that reinforce a negative really resonate. Ie Had Bill Clinton misspelled potato the reaction would not have been the same as Quayle.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

14. I find it disgusting that the parents are using their kids deaths

As a partisan hit job….it’s one thing to be grieving and take it out on the president because you think his decisions caused it…..but they seem to be playing politics with it, which makes me question how they really felt about their loved one….one lady left a Facebook post where she was talking about Biden not really being president and that he cheated in the election and that Trump was still her president…like wtf does that have to do with your dead son?

[dalton99a]

15. +1. They are Trump cultists.

[Thomas Hurt]

16. How vile is it that Trumpers use the death of their own children to try to make political points...

against Biden. That is seriously disturbed.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

18. Yep

My thoughts too…and that’s why there is no compromising with these people and they are seriously deplorable like Hillary Clinton pointed out….even in death they are so partisan (as is the case with the parents of the fallen marines, or the people owning the libs and dying of Covid, and I just read another story on how families are asking newspapers and coroners to leave our Covid as the cause of death on obituaries/death certificates)…you can’t reason with people that are partisan even in death.

[Fla Dem]

23. Watching the arrival of the soldiers yesterday, I did see him look at his watch

as they stood on the tarmac. I cringed as I just knew that would be a topic of criticism.

[lpbk2713]

25. Was he wearing a tan suit?

That would be downright deplorable.

[mountain grammy]

28. Exactly!

Really sums up the fake outrage.

[Biophilic]

26. And perhaps they were just angry about losing their children.

All of us grieve differently. I understood that it was just 2 or 3 families that said anything. Perhaps they were Trumpers and perhaps they were just angry and needed to take it out on someone. Seems there is a portion of country that believes that is an appropriate response. And perhaps they were just too sad and lost to act truly appropriately. I don't know about the families, but I do hate that the media has used them for any reason. Just too sad.

[Moebym]

38. Grief really screws with a person's mind

That would be explosive in combination with support of Trump if they were indeed Trump voters.

[Jon King]

27. My guess is these parents were big time MAGAs all along.

So take any quotes with a grain of salt. Had their kids not been killed they are still evil people who voted to destroy democracy, destroy the climate, and take away our right to vote.

So now we have evil people who are also in grief, it is what it is.

[mountain grammy]

29. Yep, I'd put money on that.

[lees1975]

30. Trump undermined the Afghan government and army by negotiating an exit with the Taliban

thinking that he was really going to win the election and would never actually have to get out. He never kept his word one time in his life.

This sort of stuff comes out because it irks people that Biden has more integrity than Trump...well, because Biden has integrity and Trump has none.

[AngryOldDem]

40. And left the Taliban as strong as they were on 9/11.

It was another shit agreement that Trump made that he was able to walk away from.

[hadEnuf]

32. And Trump hid when faced with the same situation.

But the right wing and the media forget that of course.

They don't know what to make of a real leader.

[wildman76]

34. I agree

[elevator]

35. Lotta folks turned on to Jesus after he was crucified.

Humble and sympathetic wins a lot of hearts and minds in the end after all the hysteria dies down....and it will mostly.

[doc03]

47. This will all be forgotten in a few weeks except for the

rabid Trump humpers.

[doc03]

48. This will all be forgotten in a few weeks except for the

rabid Trump humpers. Another shinny object will get the media's attention.

[Ferrets are Cool]

51. I don't know where you get your information, but

if it is the MSM, they are biased.
if it is social media, they are biased.
if it is your social circle, they are biased.

Bottom line, make up your own mind about things. I'm positive our President is doing that.

[EndlessWire]

75. Settle down.

I suspect we are on the same side, but that is antagonistic.

[Ferrets are Cool]

81. LOL

[Paladin]

52. Let the right-wing shitheads spew all they want.

Joe Biden did the proper thing, and just as important, he did what the vast majority of America wanted: he got us out of that stupid fucking war. History will bless him for it, and scorn his critics.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

53. re: TFG -- How many Big Macs does he have to eat to have bad things happen to his body?

Or in the alternative, will someone please spike his Diet Coke with super glue so he can't get open his mouth?

[MFM008]

54. This crap is all over

The daily mail for one.
I think its fake news garbage.

[Hulk]

58. Does ANYONE seriously think the twice-impeached pussy grabber would have done better?

Seriously. How sad. Yes...with all the negative 20-20 rear view mirror armchair quarterbacks can pick it all apart now.

Fact is...this needless fucking war is over. We got out 125,000 people at risk. We lost 190 precious lives, and hundreds were injured, and thousands were left in Afghanistan that want out.

Was it perfect? Hell no. It was a masterful achievement. But to think for a minute the coward, draft dodging liar and thief waould have been better is nothing more than cult alternative reality.

[Locrian]

59. really? go figure....

A lot of defense contractors (who own or spend a LOT of advertising dollars in media) are pissed that the gravy train has ended. They're out for revenge and to push for more profit, more war.

[RussBLib]

62. it's the nature of the presidency

Trump just shrugged everything off.

And it hurts more when it's "your guy" that's on the hot seat.

[hurple]

65. I read he didn't look at his watch,

That the video was manipulated.

But the author of that article may have meant he didn't look at the point in time that the right is claiming he did. That they cut the scene of him looking at the watch into the video at a point to make him look impatient and uncaring.

However, I bet dollars to donuts it's a smart watch and he is checking a message of importance. At least that seems to be how he is looking at it in that photo.

[Arazi]

67. He looked at it after the ceremony. This entire thread by @ParkerMolloy is excellent

Link to tweet

?s=20

[crickets]

74. That makes much more sense. Thank you!

I had a hard time believing Joe would even think to look at his watch during a ceremony this solemn. Parker Molloy does a great job of breaking down the entire scenario, including how Fox not only misled their viewers with lies, but manipulated the video to make the moment seem longer than it was.

The unmanipulated video is very clear. He waits with hand on heart until every soldier is driven away and gone, and the glance at his watch is so brief as to be almost unnoticed. Given how much was going on at the time, including an impending hurricane, I give him a pass for that brief glance.

[Me.]

79. I'm Now Thinking It Was Beau's Watch & He Was Looking At It In Memory At Such A Solemn Moment

His other hand was on his heart

[jaxexpat]

66. Your a bit more generous than I.

If parents spoke against Biden to the media, shame on their sorry asses. If they don't understand how a ripple of negative news about a Democrat becomes a tsunami of misinformation in our RW cable world then they're unworthy of sympathy. What they may have done amounts to treason since it is used to undermine the functionality of the government. Do they remember Trump's method of dealing with parents of dead soldiers? Of course they do. Their purpose is to ruin things they're too stupid to understand. If your child just died it's all the more reason to think long and hard about things. Apparently these people can't be bothered. Screw them!

[EndlessWire]

77. I've seen a lot of people grieving.

People grieve in different ways. I once saw a doctor come to the waiting room to tell scores of people that their GSW relative had died on the operating table. He had to be rescued by the burly ward aide, who pulled him out before the mother could pummel him. That was a grief reaction. The point is, you can't think straight when you are grieving. Or, mostly so. So, I'm not going to criticize angry parents with dead kids. But, those that repeat the slur without thinking it through are up for it.

How petty is it to criticize him for looking at his watch? And, I know it was a parent who started it. But, there he stands, the POTUS, who showed respect by being at the airport. As someone else said, a major hurricane coming in, the last flights from Kabul to be gotten out, North Korea cooking up mischief...but, he's there at the airport, for YOUR kid, his soldier...it just saddens me that our country has fallen to its knees after four years of a morally bankrupt mob boss who failed in every way possible, and who made friends and business contacts with the worst vermin on the planet.

I'm glad we are done there. I don't want the embassy reopened. Can you imagine being the ambassador to that country after this??

[pinkstarburst]

69. Biden has been handed

a full platter of disasters to deal with. In many of these cases, there is no perfect, rosy rainbows and unicorns "good" solution. There is only picking from the best of the imperfect outcomes. Afghanistan was going to be a mess no matter when we left or how it was executed. I think he made the right call. Covid is a world-wide pandemic. We are all going to be hurting from it for some time, realistically. Biden didn't cause either of these events, and can only try to steer us to a better place to the best of his ability. Some things like variants and hurricanes, are entirely out of anyone's control.

I cannot blame the parents. They are saying things that are terrible, but they are experiencing the worst moment of their life. Their children were killed. They are not thinking rationally.

[LenaBaby61]

72. When ...

Are DEMS going to defend Biden?

I've only seen Steny Hoyer and Howard Dean defending him.

Let me know of any I've missed ....

[bdamomma]

80. President Biden did

the right thing by getting us out. If Great Britain failed 3 times, and the Soviet Union pulled out, and after 20 years it was time to leave. Afghanistan is tribal, period.

tRump was all behind this sick deal.