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Tue Aug 31, 2021, 06:02 PM

Some Progressives say President Biden is a moderate....

He's not. He's the most progressive president we have had since Carter. Right now, Biden is dealing with Wild fires, a hurricane, Afghanistan withdrawal, Covid, and more. Both moderates and progressives should be proud to have him at the helm right now. Biden is bad ass!

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Reply Some Progressives say President Biden is a moderate.... (Original post)
BlueLucy Aug 2021 OP
LiberalFighter Aug 2021 #1
BlueLucy Aug 2021 #3
LiberalFighter Aug 2021 #4
Budi Aug 2021 #2
Deuxcents Aug 2021 #5
Budi Aug 2021 #6
sheshe2 Aug 2021 #7
Budi Aug 2021 #8
betsuni Aug 2021 #18
luv2fly Aug 2021 #10
Budi Aug 2021 #12
luv2fly Aug 2021 #13
Budi Aug 2021 #21
betsuni Aug 2021 #30
Joinfortmill Aug 2021 #36
Cha Aug 2021 #56
niyad Aug 2021 #38
Cha Aug 2021 #55
Caliman73 Aug 2021 #9
BlueLucy Aug 2021 #15
Caliman73 Aug 2021 #19
cinematicdiversions Aug 2021 #41
iemanja Aug 2021 #50
Nasruddin Aug 2021 #29
Joinfortmill Aug 2021 #34
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #11
Budi Aug 2021 #14
BlueLucy Aug 2021 #17
BlueLucy Aug 2021 #16
mcar Aug 2021 #20
Budi Aug 2021 #22
mcar Aug 2021 #23
Budi Aug 2021 #25
zipplewrath Aug 2021 #24
Budi Aug 2021 #27
Joinfortmill Aug 2021 #32
zipplewrath Aug 2021 #40
betsuni Aug 2021 #26
Rizen Aug 2021 #28
Celerity Aug 2021 #33
Budi Aug 2021 #49
Bettie Sep 2021 #59
Joinfortmill Aug 2021 #31
Progressive Jones Aug 2021 #35
zipplewrath Aug 2021 #42
Progressive Jones Aug 2021 #45
Budi Aug 2021 #52
Progressive Jones Aug 2021 #53
Progressive Jones Aug 2021 #54
iemanja Aug 2021 #51
cinematicdiversions Aug 2021 #43
betsuni Aug 2021 #44
Progressive Jones Aug 2021 #47
betsuni Aug 2021 #48
DownriverDem Aug 2021 #37
Progressive Jones Aug 2021 #46
empedocles Sep 2021 #57
NurseJackie Aug 2021 #39
jaxexpat Sep 2021 #58

Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 06:12 PM

1. When he was in the Senate...

he was in the 3rd column of a 10 column graph with the first being progressive to the 10th being right-wingers.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 06:32 PM

3. Indeed. He is to the left of most.

I'm proud of him.

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Response to BlueLucy (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 06:38 PM

4. I'm happy with him. He has a lot on his plate to deal with.

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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 06:16 PM

2. Dear "Progressives". Knock it off with the divisive useless high school group labels. 🙄

 

You can't put Joe Biden in a box! 👍
Just give it up already.

BTW, That was a hell of a speech. From one hell of a loyal lifelong Democratic President
*******

Biden Delivers Remarks On Afghanistan


One day when they've all built a life's long walk of a legacy as Joe Biden has, then come back & compare notes.

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Response to Budi (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 06:43 PM

5. Yes...knock it off

Our big tent of Democrats donít need to be petty or divided. Thatís what THEY do. Not everyone is gonna get everything we want.. but I sure as hell donít want the alternative. We got work to do.

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Response to Deuxcents (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 06:48 PM

6. And not everyone in that tent is alway one or the other every day, every policy need.

 

Including the self identified "progressives".
They sound like a high school game of who's who & who's not. Decided by the self ascribed 'popular' bunch.



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Response to Budi (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:06 PM

7. You cannot call yourself a Progressive if you don't make progress.

It cannot be all or nothing because we will regress if we do.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #7)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:15 PM

8. When your identity is reduced to a social media hastag & a millon+ $$ book deal....

 

then maybe ya never really knew what that identy meant in the 1st place.

Proof is in there progressive Congressional Record.
Where do they rank?

There are some lifelong legislators who live that coded word & proof is in their record.

Paul Wellstone, is a prime example. RIP
Be like Sen Wellstone in your works & words, otherwise it is just a juvenile game of hashtags for 'likes'.

Take politics serious or let someone else do it.
The stakes are way too high for it to be reduced a high school popularity contest.

When your identity is reduced to a social media hastag & a millon+ $$ book deal, you're not even a progressive. You're a populist.
If you don't know the difference ask Joe Biden.
The guy is your friend & has seen pretty much anything you ask him about.
A better mentor, you will never find.

Just be 💙. K?




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Response to Budi (Reply #8)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:51 PM

18. +1

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Response to Budi (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:29 PM

10. Who are you complaining about?

You sound pissed off at progressives but I'm not sure who specifically you're upset with?

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Response to luv2fly (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:37 PM

12. People that claim to be one thing but whose own record says another story.

 

C'mon.
Endorsing someone who claims our President to be a bowl of shit, defies progressive logic.

At that point it's hard to take their own identity claims serious.

Because we all know he is not.

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Response to Budi (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:43 PM

13. As you know, one person does not make all

If someone is annoying you, don't pay attention. It's not really fair to label all progressives with your broad brush.

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Response to luv2fly (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:06 PM

21. Rofl... well ain't that a twist & a half.

 

"It's not really fair to label all progressives with your broad brush."

Never said I was. In fact I cited example(s) of great progressives like Paul Wellstone, who not only talked the progressive talk but had a heck of a congressional ranking to prove he lived the title.

In fact, recalling Sierra Blanca, it was Sen Wellstone who stood up for the poorest Tx community against toxic nuke dumping on their community. When they had no voice at all, it was Wellstone who stood in the Senate & gave them one. He succeeded & thanks to the embodiment of all his progressive beliefs it was one Senator against the mighty corporate nuke dumping in the State of Tx.

Wellstone stood up for the poorest Latino people, right there on the Senate floor, against Senator Bernie Sanders who fought him so his State of VT could dump thir nuke waste on that Latino community, by the poweres of corporate friendly Texas.

Right.
So as far as broadbrushing goes, its odd how some can claim to be something they aren't always, or just sometimes, or maybe it depends on the beneficiary.

To say Biden is not progressive is a flat out lie.
Thing is. Biden has decades of proof where he was moderate, centrist, left leaning or progressive. He'll be the 1st to state the fact that he is all the above. But more than anything he is a Democrat.

The one thing he is not, other than a republican ideologue, is a populist for populist sake.

He has no problem seperating the difference between the two.
His policies are progressive, but he's certainly way beyond being just a trendy populist.



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Response to Budi (Reply #21)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:38 PM

30. +1

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Response to Budi (Reply #21)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:46 PM

36. 👍

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Response to Budi (Reply #21)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 11:05 PM

56. Brava, Budi!!

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Response to Budi (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:54 PM

38. . . .

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Response to Budi (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:58 PM

55. TY for this, Budi!

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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:20 PM

9. People are often mixed bags...

I think that Biden is a genuinely good person. He has a core of values that is prosocial. That said, he has been both moderate and progressive depending on the issue. You can probably say without too much controversy, that he is a pragmatist. In areas where progressive ideas will get the job done, he will be progressive. In areas where people are more moderate, he will move to the center.

Carter was also a very good man. That is not to say that he was super progressive. Socially and environmentally, totally. Jimmy was down. Economically, he was a bit of a deficit hawk. Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive. At the time when Roosevelt was active in politics, the entire establishment, both Democrats and Republicans opted for more of a hands off approach to government. Roosevelt used government power to reign in the monopolies that were dominant at the time. He used government to regulate food, water, and industry, when it was unheard of previously.

Biden has done a good job on a lot of fronts. He has his hands full, as do most Democratic Presidents in the modern era, coming in after a disastrous Republican Presidency. There seems to be a cycle of clean up that dominates the first term of every modern Democratic President, but the American people are fickle and will often punish the party in power for not fixing everything in 2 years. We need to expand the Senate and keep the House, so that Biden can continue the clean up and actually get to some of the things that he wants in terms of actually moving ahead.

It is hard to tell people what they should be feeling about a particular President and what they have accomplished, especially after only 7 months of a first term. So far Biden has been pretty darn good on things. I am hoping we get a chance to see more.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #9)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:45 PM

15. Thank you for this

I didn't know Carter was at times a moderate.

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Response to BlueLucy (Reply #15)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:59 PM

19. Carter was pragmatic too.

Like Joe, truly truly, a wonderful human being. However, I think that you take what you can get, and sometimes you go with what you know will resonate.

I lean more progressive, more left, but I understand that most of the country, while they may like the policy proposals, will scream if we have to raise any taxes to pay for truly progressive legislation.

We have to take what we can get. We should push for what is right, but our vision of what perfection is shouldn't make us take our ball home and hand power to those who would use it only to benefit themselves and the wealthy.

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Response to BlueLucy (Reply #15)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:55 PM

41. Carter was so moderate that the progressives primaried him when he was up forr reelotion.

 

Led by Ted Kennedy, who felt Carter was much too conservative as a representative of the old democratic party. (He was, after all, a Southern governor during the civil rights movement.)





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Response to BlueLucy (Reply #15)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:48 PM

50. Carter was on the right of the Democratic Party when he was elected

He's become more leftist over time.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #9)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:32 PM

29. Insider vs Outsider

Joe Biden was already in DC as Delaware senator when Jimmy Carter was elected. He's been there in the Senate and as VP most of his life.

Jimmy Carter ran, and was, an outsider to the federal government. He had been a Georgia governor and office holder earlier but he had no "friends" (I guess we should be careful about that word in politics) in DC, or relatively few. In that sense he and Bill Clinton are a lot alike at the starting gate. And Mr Obama, but then he had Joe Biden on the team.

Mr Biden is about the ultimate insider. His address book is practically everyone who's been in & out of DC in the past 6 decades. This is a huge advantage, if he can muster and use it wisely. It isn't always - same could be said of George Bush the lesser (or Richard Nixon).

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #9)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:44 PM

34. Talk about exceeding expectations!

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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:31 PM

11. Carter was a moderate when he held office. He changed over the yesrs.

Biden is the most progressive president since Roosevelt.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:43 PM

14. K & R Thank You!

 

Yes he is.
In fact, throughout his Senatorial history there are many times when his true Democratic belief shined steady against the others.

Democrat is the only real label you'll ever need in the end, & that proof is in the legacy of Joe Biden, himself.







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Response to Budi (Reply #14)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:50 PM

17. Yes it is!

He is a great president not without faults but he is the one who should be in charge in times like these.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:49 PM

16. Thank you . nt

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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:04 PM

20. He has exceeded all my expectations

He is the president we need now!

My fellow Scrantonian!

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Response to mcar (Reply #20)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:12 PM

22. Your claim to fame is a BFD!! When you know the history of Scranton people, you know Joe.

 

Lucky you.

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Response to Budi (Reply #22)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:16 PM

23. True story, Budi - my mother babysat him



They grew up in the same neighborhood, attended the same church - she would be 94 now.

We moved back to that neighborhood when I was 6, about 3 blocks from where Joe grew up till he was 10.

Scranton is the very definition of "small world."

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Response to mcar (Reply #23)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:24 PM

25. That is such a cool lifestory. Of all the people to be old family neighbors with. The Bidens!!!

 

I feel closer to Joe because you're on DU.
That's how it works, right.

🙂



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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:18 PM

24. Wait, I though Obama was the most progressive

Now we're seeing people saying that Biden is the most progressive since Carter/Roosevelt? So Biden is more progressive than Obama but about the same as Carter, albeit apparently Obama was more progressive than Carter, until Biden came along and then Carter was more progressive than Obama....

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #24)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:27 PM

27. But still, he's not 'progressive' enough!!

 

It sounds as ridiculous as it is.

Joe Biden defies labels.

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Response to Budi (Reply #27)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:39 PM

32. 👍

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Response to Budi (Reply #27)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:55 PM

40. Who?

Biden? Obama? Carter?

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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:26 PM

26. It just shows how sadly they lag behind the times.

Keeping Democrats from being seen as progressives requires them to be labeled with words like moderate/centrist/corporatist/elite/neoliberal/establishment/status quo, but in 2021 it's ridiculous. The word "progressive" meant anti-establishment with the Democratic Party being the evil establishment. This doesn't work when obviously the Biden administration is progressive in the original definition of the word. Populism isn't popular anymore.

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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:28 PM

28. What is this a bash progressives thread?

"Some progressives say..." this sounds like a Fox News talking point, "some people say this." Who? Who's saying that? And we're not the ones clogging up legislation in the senate. You moderates need to get your Joe Manchins in line, not us.

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Response to Rizen (Reply #28)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:40 PM

33. +1

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Response to Rizen (Reply #28)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:46 PM

49. Manchin & Sinema didn't vote NO on funding the Senate Afghan assistance bill

 

However, it was a small unified group of D's that did vote NO on that House Afghan funding bill.
So, ok. They took a stand & made their point, & thankfully the bill passed anyway, by even the more moderate labelled Dems.

I have no idea why that group stood against a very progressive bill.

Which is why I do not take their claim serious when they point fingers at others saying they aren't ENOUGH!

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Response to Rizen (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 1, 2021, 03:21 PM

59. There is one every couple of days

there are some people who bash progressives as if it's their job.

Me? I'm a progressive and I'm reasonably happy with Biden so far, but then, I've never been in 100% agreement with any politician.

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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:38 PM

31. Biden rocks!

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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:45 PM

35. Maybe the Progressive "gatekeepers" can clear something up for me. Has the term "Progressive" been





re-defined? I've been politically active, to my abilities, since I was 13 years old. The Nixon days. I'm now 62 years old.

Aside from the most blatant Blue Dogs, I've always seen the Democratic Party as the Progressives, when compared to the other side.

For me, the following Presidents have all been "Progressive" to varying degrees.

FDR
Eisenhower (GOP, but more Progressive than some on my list)
JFK
LBJ
Clinton (to an extent)
Obama
Biden

What I wish to be cleared up on is this -- To what end will Dem/Liberal/Progressive in-fighting take us?

Some of this bickering, and the "purity tests", etc., borders on dangerous. Like it, or not, we have to pull together.


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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #35)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:57 PM

42. Not JFK

Nor Clinton. For the others, other than Eisenhower, you're pretty much splittin' hairs. None of them were "radical leftists" and they all had significant "blind spots" of their own.

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Response to zipplewrath (Reply #42)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:26 PM

45. So now there's been a jump from Forward Moving to "radical leftists" ? nt

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #45)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:56 PM

52. K & R

 

Agree to how you've defined this issue.
And yes, I believe it definately has been redefined & I'm not sure who was chosen to decide who's in the exclusive new club & who's not.

Oh well.

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Response to Budi (Reply #52)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:53 PM

53. I guess it is what it is, and that's that. Go Dems ! nt

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Response to Budi (Reply #52)


Response to zipplewrath (Reply #42)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:52 PM

51. Radical leftists

have always existed outside of mainstream political parties. To imagine the Democrats should be like them is unrealistic.

In US history, radical leftists have been locked up and deported, to the point that they no longer exist in any way that challenges, rather than seeking to moderate, capital.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #35)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:57 PM

43. Honestly if you go by blind legislative proposals

 

Nixon is also more progressive than some on your list.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #35)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:12 PM

44. It's been redefined, means "anti-establishment": the moral, pure vs corrupt immoral establishment.

A way of attacking character when policy goals are the same. Our Revolution/Justice Democrats style of attacking Democrats. No wonder they're so unpopular. Populism isn't popular in 2021.

Here's Susan Bordo's explanation:

"For Sanders supporters, however, 'progressive' wan't an ill-defined historically malleable label, but rather a badge of honor, a magical talisman for those who considered themselves 'anti-establishment.' It may have been 'a fallback identifier for pretty much anyone 'The Nation' and its journalistic kin smiled upon' ... but it was an identifier with a great deal of potency, particularly for a younger generation longing for lives organized around something other than job hunting. When Sanders denied that badge of honor to Clinton he wasn't distinguishing his agenda from hers (their positions on most issues were, in reality, pretty similar), he was excluding her from the company of the good and the pure -- and in the process, limiting what counted as 'progressive' causes, too. His list didn't include the struggle for reproductive rights or affordable child care. Nor, at the beginning of his campaign, was there much emphasis on racial justice. As I watched Sanders enchant the crowds, it was something of a deja vu experience to see a charismatic male politician on stage telling women which issues are and are not 'progressive.'"

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Response to betsuni (Reply #44)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:30 PM

47. There is no such thing as "moral purity", in politics, governance, or anything else. nt

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #47)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:41 PM

48. But that's how populism works. Lots of evil enemies who will stop at nothing to defeat

the virtuous and pure speaking truth to power or whatever. Black/white good/evil moral/corrupt simplistic thinking.

That's how populists end up putting the Human Rights Fund and Planned Parenthood in the evil "establishment" basket. Shameful and ridiculous.

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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:50 PM

37. So?

Some Progressives need to learn how our government works. They can propose their ideas, but they don't run the show. They need to focus on beating the repubs. The Dems need to win more control to get anything done. Some Progressives lack what our purpose is.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #37)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:27 PM

46. Pretty much how I see things these days. nt

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 1, 2021, 07:22 AM

57. The 2020 electionresults in the Congress are educating

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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:55 PM

39. The Biden haters I've encountered on Twitter can't let go.

Sad, really.

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Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Wed Sep 1, 2021, 03:15 PM

58. This sort of conversation irritates the Democrat in me.

Progressive people will enjoy the fruits of progressive policies as well as moderates and conservatives but I'm sure Canada would loan us a little tundra if we needed to Siberianize our less pure associates. This is a war against the unworthy souls of those greedy folks who use people by manipulation through misinformation.

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