the "OMG they are going to steal it!!1!!" posts drive down enthusiasm and are counterproductive

[scheming daemons]

Stop it.

All you're doing is depressing turnout on our side.

It creates a "what's the use? My vote won't matter" attitude and we can't let that take hold.

Pull yourselves together and stop the conspiracy nonsense and GOTV!

[vaberella]

1. AMEN!!! And they wonder why I call them "concern troll."

I'm not saying there's no cause for concern. But that is why you stay on message, stay enthusiastic---because that leads to your own personal motivation and having the ability to positively motivate others.

[reformist2]

43. Unpopular opinion: I find "concern trolls" amusing.

I also think they get our side fired up, which can only be a good thing.

[Cal33]

83. 12 years have passed since the election was stolen from Gore. Today, the GOP

is continuing their election fraud -- only more massively than ever. And election
fraud is a crime. How come the GOP is getting away with it? How come so few,
if any, of them are caught, sued in court, found guilty and punished? Are the Dems. too passive in dealing with the situation? And does this passivity invite more crime?

[zeemike]

100. How come they get away with it?

Might I suggest because they have trained us to reject any suggestion that things are not on the up and up as crazy CTers...
And so they can openly steal it and everyone is afraid to say something about it for fear of ridicule.

And should this one be stolen I expect many people here to blame Obama cause he did not fight hard enough and did not call Rmoney on his lies often enough....but never will those same people consider that they have been punked yet again....and we will go another 4 years in denial and do nothing to change it.
Far better to be a loser than called a Conspiracy Theorist.

[Blanks]

116. It seems like a conspiracy.

With the exception of a few members of the house. To my knowledge; no major democrat has acknowledged 'vote theft'.

I think the candidates have to be careful how far they go down the path of making accusations. If they can't prove anything; they'll destroy their career.

Someone needs to be caught, prosecuted, convicted and incarcerated. Then we can take steps to change the process. I hope this is the election for that to happen.

Until someone has been caught; the other elections won't be investigated. Until someone is actually convicted; it is difficult to gather the political will to pursue the old elections.

The reason I think we shouldn't talk about it (except to the candidates) is if the opposition has a plan and everyone knows that it is a concern; they might not try. I want someone to get caught. Tagg Romney would be a good one to pull out of the net.

[bluestate10]

143. The 2000 election was not stolen, Bush won by just over 1,000 votes in Florida.

As much as I hate seeing what I just wrote, it is the unvarnished truth and has been confirmed by independent recounts of ballots. After about 97,000 people in that state had voted their "principles" and voted for Nader. Let's cut the bullshit and call the situation what it was. Given what the nation went through and is still recovering from, I hope their fucking "principles" was worth something to the 97,000 clueless fools.

[skeewee08]

2. Amen!!!!

[Atman]

3. YES! HAPPY THOUGHTS ONLY!

Maybe some see such posts as calls to action, to GOTV and not sit home and let them do it? Thanks for your concern, though.

.

[freedom fighter jh]

62. +1 nt

[BlueCaliDem]

68. +2. I totally agree. How does pointing out potential election theft depress the vote??

You'd think it would motivate GOTV like nobody's business!

[Bluenorthwest]

101. Pointing out potentials is very differnt from declaring a done deal.

To say 'watch those sticky fingered Republicans like the amoral hooligans they are' is one thing. To say 'Mitt looks so smug they all know the fix in in' is very different.
I was in a thread today about a guy arrested on mulitple charges of election fraud, destruction of registrations, that sort of thing. The OP had his mug shot, noted more charges might be coming and that investigations are underway. He sites in jail. One of the posts in the thread said this: 'and it looks like he'll get away with it scott free'. He's in jail. But it looks like he'll get away with it scott free? That's the sort of comment that bugs me.
That and the 'Rove is a super genius who can walk through walls' sort of posts about a pasty and needful little fan boy crook. I think Karl types those himself.
I read a post today about voting on provisional ballots. The comment said that provisional balltos are always challenged and if they are Democratic they are thrown out. Not that Republicans like to do that, not that they try, just stated as if the law read 'if challenged, Democratic ballots are destroyed and Republican ballots retained'. Fine to be cynical, not fine to tell people 'you ballot will be destroyed'. Just not the fact. To win, we need people who must do so to use provisional ballots, it can be a hassel, so if they think there is not a point in doing so, they might not.

[crunch60]

136. I never saw it as a done deal, only a big problem that needs to be addressed. I remember Jeb Bush

did it for Dubya, remember the Scott Walker recall. The GOP suppression of votes continues and everyone should know about IMHO. The President and Vice President had very successful debates, but that does not mean the cat is in the bag for the Democrats. .
We must get President Obama reelected and Citizens United overturned.

[Dustlawyer]

111. Amen brother! I am not willing to bury my head in the sand! This shit has and will happen to

some extent. The more we make of it before, the less likely they are to do it, or get away with it! They have done everything else this cycle and spent 1 plus billion dollars, they are going to try it!

[Mojorabbit]

121. +1000 nt

[Skidmore]

4. We need some GOTV and "Fired up" threads.

[marions ghost]

18. Put that thought in a thread post

---some who are worried about problems like me forget to cheerlead but a lot of people would appreciate it.

[HereSince1628]

5. I think it's much more likely that they just irritate you.

You are of course free to berate them, but at least be honest.

[FSogol]

6. Exactly, stop moping and GOTV

[Coyotl]

7. But, but, that the whole idea!

Of course, some people are the victims of the tactic, not the perps!

[blm]

8. Areed - GOP knows exactly how to suppress Dem turnout on every level.

Even through their use of social media.

[GitRDun]

9. Agreed

I don't even read them anymore.

[cali]

10. really? how do you know it depresses turnout? You don't.

I could make the argument that it increases turnout as it motivates people to get out and vote. Neither of us have evidence for our positions.

I think trying to shut people up with posts like yours is anathema on a political discussion board.

[Scuba]

17. +1

[scheming daemons]

21. peopke who feel there is no point, will stay home cali

Psychologists will tell you that people get fired up and enthused when they feel their actions matter and that their side is winning in campaigns.

People who feel they're vote is useless and wont affect the outcome stay home.

[cali]

104. I'm sorry, but you still have no evidence for your claims.

I'm so tired of this partisan fueled insanity that demands we only post good news.

[inamatteroftime]

148. I do not believe in coincidences. nt

[bigtree]

26. anathema . . . I knew your doom posts reminded me of something

Anathema formed in 1990 as a doom metal band, initially going by the name Pagan Angel. In November of that year, the band recorded their first demo, entitled An Iliad of Woes This demo caught the attention of several bands and labels from the English metal scene.

At the beginning of 1991, the band gained a lot of attention with the release of their second demo entitled All Faith Is Lost, resulting in a four-album deal with Peaceville Records. Their first release under the label was The Crestfallen EP in November 1992. They took the material from that album on the road, touring with Cannibal Corpse.

Serenades, Anathema's debut LP, attracted a lot of mainstream attention, propelling their "Sweet Tears" music video onto the MTV playlist.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anathema_%28band%29

[marions ghost]

33. Agree

We don't know what effect it has.

Simple solution--the OP should put up a positive post to counter, instead of admonishments. We have seen enough to know that election theft IS a relevant topic in this election.

[flamingdem]

66. This bird agrees

There is some evidence that theft is in the plans. It's too soon to call it a conspiracy theory unfortunately.

[marions ghost]

103. The view is not popular

but I think it would be stupid to pretend it's not a factor. We've seen all the time-worn suppression tactics already, and we know that in many localities Diebold has things WELL in hand--unprotected, unverifiable (built by and for Republicans) touch screen voting machines ready for action...

DU is a forum where "the inside game" is discussed, and THE ELEPHANT IS IN THE ROOM--OVER THERE, IN THE CORNER, EATING HIS ELEPHANT CHOW...waiting to be noticed. He's wearing the "I Voted" sticker.
.
I know you see him and so do I. AND YES--HE"S A RETHUGLICON ELEPHANT...

Thanx for corroboration.

[flamingdem]

124. I think that I'd feel a whole lot less nervous if

it really was a clean playing field.

Diebold has morphed into HIG, owned partly by 2 Rmoney bundlers and I think today they said Tagg too!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251145769

[marions ghost]

125. thanx for the update

they can morph but they can't hide...

[robinlynne]

34. I'm with you.

[Raster]

78. +1000 Please don't tell me what to think or what to post.

And yes, they are most certainly trying to steal this election. That is as obvious as the noses on our faces. To not acknowledge that fact actually MAKES THEIR JOB EASIER.

And no, it does not make me want to curl up in a fetal position and suck my thumb. It makes me want to do WHATEVER I CAN to make sure Willard Rmoney is NOT the President of the United States.

[dionysus]

97. well there's a difference between "let's make sure it isn't close enough to steal" and "why bother,

they're just gonna use diebold to steal it anyway" attitudes.

how's the leg?

[leftynyc]

11. THANK YOU!!!

I'm sick to death of those posts from the bedwetters.

[librechik]

12. Nope-the evidence is clear and has been clear for years. We need to speak out

and the best time to announce a flaw is when it is about to happen, not after the damage is done.

We have known the danger of electronic voting for over a decade and no one has done anything about it. It's a scandal. What idiots we are to allow those black boxes to eat our democracy!

No matter who wins the election, those machines (and the Republican crooks who own them) HAVE TO GO!!!!!!

And remember, it's not paranoia when they really are out to get you. Again, the evidence on this point is clear, not imaginary.

[marions ghost]

28. +++++

This topic gets NO traction AFTER an election...

Thank you for making the point

And I think the jury is out on whether talking about it it helps or hurts. I think it could motivate voters just as much or more. but I also think it's good to express the positives. People around here are so worried that is hard to do.

SO...cheerleaders, come out of the woodwork and give us some positives! Now is the time.

But don't tell us we should avoid the serious issue of election theft. I believe we have seen ENOUGH evidence that is a clear Rethug strategy this time. I think we will see more offenses on the part of Rethuglicons before it's over.

Perfectly good topic.

[Pbs1914]

35. + 1000

[femrap]

39. +1,000

Vote early in OH. No machines....you vote w/ ballot and pencil. At least our local BOE is that way. So VOTE EARLY and ask for paper.

[2pooped2pop]

47. +1000 on what you said.

I agree too that it's a downer. However, it is real and probably the most important issue we face. Without a fair vote, we have no democracy.

With Bain having ties to the voting machines, plus all of the voter suppression, new voting boundaries, the lies, the endless money from both foreign and domestic billionaires, I think there is a shit load to worry about this election being stolen.

It is frustrating that no one wants to cover it. So it will come up on sites like this.

That said, without the help of our elected officials who strangely don't seem to want to change it, our only recourse is a vote that is so swayed to our side, that they can't even pretend their side won.

And while these things may be counterproductive in some views, telling people which issues are ok to post here is not really acceptable to me.

[Camballo]

58. I totally agree.

If you degrade people with this completely legitimate, even paramount some would say, concern as "bedwetters" or those in "foilhats," then you become part of the problem. Sort of like climate change deniers have hindered any real progress on that important issue.

[librechik]

119. Thx, Camballo, and welcome to DU!

[Lionessa]

48. Exactly. Not to mention that as Dems and NOT Reps, we actually speak facts & truth, not

myths and bullshit that cover up the misadventures of Reps that lead to fraud.

[Zalatix]

55. The GOP has stolen elections before, this is not a conspiracy, it is a fact.

However I recced this thread because the OP gave the one, most important and the only RELEVANT solution to this conspiracy:

get out the vote.

Neither can be denied - the GOP WILL try to steal this election, and the best response is to get out and fight.

[freedom fighter jh]

63. +1 nt

[bluestate10]

144. Get registered, get other people that will vote with you registered, and fucking vote.

And after you eliminate assholes from office in this election, keep fucking voting to get the rest from office and put in place and keep people in office that believe in democracy. That is how you bring about change.

[slackmaster]

13. The Foil Hat Brigade shall now expand the Conspiracy to include schming daemons

?w=640

[edhopper]

14. OR

it's a call to arms that they ARE going to try to steal it and we need to do everything we can to stop it.
Or we can ignore the evidence and put our fingers in our ears and ask people to stop talking about a real danger.

[justiceischeap]

15. The only way they can steal the election is if we don't get our asses out of our seats

and go and vote. Telling voters that a candidate is one way of suppressing voter turnout, going on a message board and whining about how they're going to steal the election, suppresses the vote. Shut up and do something. On election day volunteer to take people to the polls, volunteer to make calls to remind people to vote. There's no way they can steal an election that has overwhelming Dem voter turnout.

[bigmonkey]

52. (Sarcasm) I agree, Democrats should always lose close elections!

When, precisely, is the "good" time to bring attention to election (not voter) fraud? Your casual argument is that Democrats should somehow always win elections by such a margin that election fraud is impossible to carry out. This is tantamount to tolerating a situation where Repubilcan votes count more than Democratic votes. No way I'm down with that.

[Bluenorthwest]

112. I'd say those of you who wait until this point in the cyle to worry about election fraud

are doing it wrong. The time to do it to the best result is between elections, in your own State. Take a look at WA. This will be their first all by mail election. No video poker ballots, no polling places to hamper, they will have giant turn out. Here in Oregon, we've been doing that for some time now. So you see, we have not been tolerating what some of you in others States seem to forget about until the ballots are coming in.
The best time to seek change is before it is too late to make that change.
Now what you should be doing is watching your local Republicans like the crooks they are, holding in your head full knowledge of your States election laws. Then on Nov 8, start trying for better ways of voting. Try not to forget.

[justiceischeap]

122. I'm not saying we shouldn't be concerned with election fraud

what I'm saying is, that even if/when the GOP employs election fraud, we have the greater numbers. If we vote en masse, they would have to cheat so obviously that they can't do so.

With stories popping up daily about GOP election fraud, there's no doubt it's an issue but it's much easier to steal a close election than it is to try and steal an election that has a large margin.

[bigmonkey]

127. Yet election fraud means Republicans take office when Democrats actually win the vote.

This is a very serious, and longstanding, matter. It's very demoralizing to see fraud flip offices to the Republicans. The fact that Democrats could, conceivably, overwhelm this is used too much as a way to keep attempts to increase awareness of the problem to a minimum.

Don't you think that the situation for Democrats and progressives in general would be better if the story for the past few years was that Democrats kept winning close elections? This is practically precluded if nothing is done about election fraud - Democrats only closely win elections that should have been blowouts. The spread is skewed to the right from where it belongs according to the actual vote count. The fact that Democrats still win elections doesn't change that.

I wish the response to the election fraud threads were more "Yes, and ..." instead of "No, instead ..."

[heaven05]

113. what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????????

Last edited Fri Oct 19, 2012, 04:28 PM - Edit history (2)

Oh, tagg the mitttwit seed result, owns the electronic voting machines in Ohio. Oh don't be depressed just go pull the lever on those machines. Precedent was set 2000-04. I'm going to vote. Yet all I end up doing is feeling very cynical about "no way they can steal an election with overwhelming Dem voter turnout." The MSM already has it as a neck and neck horse race, Who owns the MSM? The gallup and pew polls have it neck and neck and very close in the women's vote. What sane, rational woman would vote for this clown? So you tell me who's zooming who? I won't tell you to shut up! although I feel like it, I'll just say you are extremely naive. I make calls for my President, yet I see the MSM ignore Bain, Tax returns, outsourcing american jobs for personal profit, lies, hair cuts, dressing as a police officer and actually stopping people. I could go on and on. No whining here, just facing the reality of our very vulnerable electoral process. When I CAN BE SURE my vote will be counted, I'll shut up. Until then..... I hope I don't have to say, I told you so. Yes everyone, GO VOTE!

[randome]

16. Absolutely! Stop the hand-wringing!

[HappyMe]

19. I throw them into the trash can.

[meow2u3]

20. GOTV so the system is so overwhelmed they can't steal it nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. +1

Eventually, get rid of the desire for instant results, which is a disease. That way voting machines can be eliminated and paper ballots counted.

[hue]

91. Instant gratification is an addiction--as You say, "disease" & will not be eliminated.

That is the prime reason McDonalds/drive-thrus, bank, pharmacy, drive ups, instant replies, twitter, etc. are so popular!
Everyone wants "immediate results"!!!

But I agree, paper ballots are the only reliable ones!!

[scheming daemons]

23. this

[marions ghost]

114. We should be eternally killing ourselves to overcome nationwide election theft?

Seems like I've been hearing this line since the early 90's....

WHY do we put up with this dysfunctional, easily manipulated, antiquated so-called "system?"

NOW at this point in the horserace--when we can SEE it's going to make our job even HARDER (those of us who are working to GOTV)-- should we NOT express frustration with this sham of a system????

Not buying this old line. It BROUGHT us the disaster of 2000.

We need to be vigilant AND talk about it AND GOTV

[SunSeeker]

73. Exactly! nt

[garthranzz]

24. For me, it's the opposite. It's "They are going to TRY to steal it but..."

there is no way (fill in your own expletive) I will let that happen. Not again.

Perhaps it depends on how it's phrased. If it's, "give up, it's already a foregone conclusion they'll steal it," maybe. But as people get word of the efforts to intimidate voters and suppress the vote, they get angry and have an "I'll show you attitude." I think this is especially true in minority communities and with women. There have been too many years of women, Blacks and now Hispanics fighting oppression, not taking or submitting to it.

To me, when someone cheats, I want to fight harder.

[barbtries]

25. i agree

i don't click on those posts but unless you have a concrete plan to thwart it don't bother.

[Jennicut]

27. Thank you!

We all know Repubs will try anything. And what they try makes me angry. Very angry. But telling me they will steal it no matter what is so incredibly self defeating. Worry but work on GOTV. Obama and his team are not stupid. They know full well...they went to the higher courts in Ohio to get early voting for the last weekend before the election.

[LynneSin]

29. I've seen posters still harp on the first debate even after we've had the VP and 2nd debate

Like the voters will actually remember the first debate when election day rolls around.

But they will if WE keep harping on it.

[get the red out]

30. Yes, I'm tired of it

Thanks for posting this.

[stillcool]

31. I don't understand..

I do not like the every four year re-hash of the vulnerabilities in our voting systems, but I certainly would not advocate stopping anyone from expressing their concerns. It would be great if those concerns were addressed either before it's too late to do anything, or after the damage has been done, and the voting apparatus can be made more secure. The every 4-year Ohio event is truly tiring, but the power to do anything lies with the people of Ohio...any information that will encourage the people of Ohio to make sure they can vote, and that their vote will count is a good thing.

[Tom Rinaldo]

32. Doesn't work that way for me

It makes me want to work harder to increase the margin of an Obama victory. I'm pretty pragmatic about potential election theft. For starters I don't think the Republicans or anyone else are willing to take great risks to steal an election, BUT that risk shrinks the tighter a race becomes. Vice versa, the risk of getting caught trying to steal an election increases the wider the actual spread between the candidates. I do not believe Romney can beat Obama fair and square. I am highly motivated to move the vote spread beyond the tiny margin that makes election theft a tempting proposition, and yes that means GOTV efforts and all the rest of it.

On the other hand, the more everyone allows concerns over electoral theft to be perceived as mere left wing lunacy, the easier it becomes to actually attempt it because those so inclined become convinced that no one will consider any accusations regarding it as credible. It's like a criminal feeling emboldened to victimize prostitutes or homeless alcoholics in the belief that those who witness such crimes will be dismissed as unreliable witnesses.

What do you think holds back anyone form attempting to manipulate vote totals today? Once upon a time the threat was centered on stuffing the ballot box or throwing away uncounted votes from precincts that leaned toward the adversary. Over time the public demanded adequate safeguards against that. That didn't stop the motivation to steal elections, it just changed the risk to benefit equation. Do you think that contemporary political parties are simply more ethical than they used to be? Do you think that the advantages of winning elections rather than losing them are not as important nowadays as they used to be? Or do you think that it just is too hard for anyone today to manipulate vote tallies due to the fool proof technology currently in use, including e-voting machines with proven security flaws and proven track records of having flipped elections in the past?

[scheming daemons]

92. Response

A) I think the GOP will do their damnedest to steal the election in any way they can get away with.

B) I think too many Democrats think it is a fait accompli that the election will be stolen and they are bordering on despair. Despair is an anti-motivator. Pessimism is an anti-motivator. OPTIMISM gets people to the polls. Fear can be good, but when fear slips into despair, it is VERY BAD.


If we overwhelm the polls, theft is not possible. So instead of sitting on our couches lamenting that the GOP is going to steal the election, get off our asses and VOTE!


That's what my thread is about.

[YvonneCa]

93. THIS is an excellent post and response to the...

...OP. Thank you.

[dougolat]

128. +1

[porphyrian]

36. You can resume your despair and attack on the President after Election Day, if that helps. n/t

[bigtree]

37. you get the feet

. . . I'll bring the fire

[porphyrian]

41. Heh, yep. We've got a lot of work, yet.

[HomerRamone]

38. Sure. After all they didn't steal two

of the last three elections...

[midnight]

40. Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus tells some of us from Wisconsin otherwise....

"Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus, a former staffer for the Assembly Republican Caucus, has been sharply criticized in recent months for her handling of recent elections. Even the archly-conservative Waukesha County Board has sharply condemned Nickolaus after past elections, demanding an immediate audit of her practices following ominous red-flags that emerged regarding her lack of oversight, failure to create backup files and her stubborn insistence to “keep everything secret.” [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/18/10; 1/17/11]

The County auditors said it was eminently possible -- including historical precedent -- for Nickolaus or a rogue employee to tamper with data. Why? Nickolaus insists on controlling password access and has unilaterally decided to move sensitive files, like election results, onto her personal computer.

Nickolaus has actually scoffed at complying with impartial audits, thumbing her nose at critics. A move that drew a sharp reaction at the time from the County Board Chair:

“There really is nothing funny about this, Kathy,” said Waukesha County Board Chairman Jim Dwyer when Nickolaus willfully ignored complying with the earlier impartial audit. “Don’t sit there and grin when I'm explaining what this is about.” [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/18/10; 1/17/11]
http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2011/04/07-13

There should be a movement to discuss this issue openly to help address voting concerns, rather than silencing them as a method of hoping to achieve better turn out...

[Romulox]

42. Thanks for your concern. nt

[scheming daemons]

45. dude... this thread is the polar opposite of a concern thread

[Romulox]

50. It's concern about concern. And an attempt to discourage posters from the Left. Moreover...

[OldDem2012]

44. Thank you...somebody needed to say it in a BIG way! nt.

[femrap]

46. Obviously you weren't in

Ohio in 2004 when Ken Blackwell and his Corporate buddies STOLE that election. I was. I even went to DC when the Electoral College Votes from Ohio were to be cast and Barbara Boxer stopped it...well, for 2 hours.

Now we have Husted as our SoS....a totally paid-for Corporate c*ck s*cker who has tried EVERYTHING to stop Blacks, elderly, students...hell, any Dem from voting. He's worse than Blackwell.

HUSTED TOOK IT ALL THE WAY TO THE SUPREME COURT. Obviously, you don't know what is it like on the ground here in Ohio. It is the state that WILL determine the election.

So if you think I'm sit back and twiddle my thumbs why these repugnant Corporate stoolies try, you are mistaken. People need to be prepared to fight. In 2004, most were in shock, 'Oh, this can't be.' The voting machines were new and people just didn't want to believe such EVIL exists. Now they do.

I refuse to live through another STOLEN ELECTION from OHIO. I don't think I'll be able to live through that again.

So don't point your finger at me and say, 'Chill.' The RobMe family owns a part of our voting machine. THAT IS NOT GOOD, dude.

[AzDar]

51. + 10000! (you whacky conspiracy theorist)

[scheming daemons]

54. I am not saying they wont try... it is the defeatist "woe is us" threads

[YvonneCa]

94. Instead of thinking they are and labeling them as defeatist threads...

...maybe switching your paradigm to 'creating awareness and informing' threads? It's all in the perception. So far the media is succeeding in creating their own perception. JMHO.

[CrispyQ]

56. +1

2004 was a kick in the stomach.

I was an election judge & got home around 9:15pm. They had just called PA for Kerry & OH was looking good! Just like that, it switched. Completely switched. I had picked up my favorite take-out on the way home. I tossed it in the trash, went to bed & cried & called in sick the next day.

Never underestimate these people. Never.

[femrap]

150. I went to bed when it started to switch,

I think.

The next day, around 11:00 am Kerry gave his Concession Speech and I bawled like a baby. I was sick. The theft of that election....I became obsessed. I led the Recount of Hamilton County. Protested at the Statehouse and as I said even went to DC. In 2005, I gained about 30 pounds from emotional eating.

Then in 2006, after knocking on hundreds of doors and making hundreds of calls, we get the House and Senate and NO IMPEACHMENT. Pelosi and her fooking table. I felt betrayed.

I didn't work in 2008 after HRC lost the primary. Of course I voted for Obama, but I had no enthusiasm and as a result couldn't 'sell' the dude to people.

Today, I think I'm more motivated by my absolute disgust and loathing of RobMe than I am for my affection for Obama. I do like Sherrod and work for him.

Isn't that Josh Mandel a widdle spoiled brat??? He's offensive. Did you know that this Senate race has spent more money than any other??? AIPAC probably has a lot to do with, I'm guessing.

This made my day...did you see it?

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/55019844-82/romney-obama-state-president.html.csp

I've forwarded it to my Repugnant family members.

[CrispyQ]

153. That endorsement was sweet! In the heart of Mormon country, ~lol!

Spoiled brats. That is exactly what the repub/teabaggers are - spoiled brats. They cannot govern because they think governing is getting their way entirely & they have absolutely no ethics when it comes to getting what they want. Lie, cheat, steal, it's all ok. They need a time out. No, I take that back - that's too easy for this hateful bunch. They need a spanking. And then some serious grounded time. Like forever. You must stay in your room forever, you little shits. I cannot tell you the disgust & loathing I have for them.

My sister has so many friends on FB, I decided to check them out. She has friended a cousin that I haven't seen in almost 40 years. He has hardly any activity on FB, but he did like Paul Ryan. That tells me all I need to know about him.

I've sent $ to both Ryan's & Cantor's challengers.

[femrap]

158. To get rid

of Lying Ryan and Cantor would be so cooooooooooooool!!!!!!!!!!

I can barely handle my own repugnant family....and the moderate and well-mannered dems. I'm just too mouthy and an Unreconstructed Dem for this area.

I just try to rile up strangers and point out why they HAVE to VOTE against RobMe...not so much for Obama. I scare the hell out of people. RobMe will have you eating dirt! LOL. I'm not that extreme, but he hates the 47% and people better believe that.

Those 8 yrs. of W nearly killed me....I can't do RobMe.

I agree w/ you about the Baggers 100%.

[TDale313]

80. Thank you.

I get frustrated with this attitude that when we point out that Republicans are rigging the system and suppressing the vote and have stolen recent elections, somehow we're the problem. That doesn't mean don't vote, but we need to be honest about the situation and fight to fix it. Overwhelming the polls so it's not close enough to steal is great, and for now may be the best option, but it's not a long term fix. And the simple fact is, voting shouldn't have to be this hard and we shouldn't have to wonder if people's votes are actually being counted.

[flamingdem]

90. femrap can you update us

on this as we go along? It looks like Ohio is in the crosshairs for so many reasons.

The not so conspiratorial thinking is that the HIG machines used in 2 counties might present a problem.
If you haven't read about this I will send you some articles, bradblog covered it.

Luckily it looks like the early voting helps + OFA has its act together on the ground about this.

[femrap]

151. I'm sending this to the

Repugnants in my family:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/55019844-82/romney-obama-state-president.html.csp

It comes from Mormon country and I am amazed they are endorsing Obama.

I will follow everything that happens in OH.

Husted needs to be watched like a hawk. And I don't care if it takes weeks to count the votes of Ohio, I want them counted correctly. After the big fight against SB5 in Ohio, even repugnants here don't trust the OH gov't, which is all Repugnants.

[2pooped2pop]

105. Agree n/t

[Octafish]

129. Remember Michael Connell.

The Suspicious, Disturbing Death of Election Rigger Michael Connell

by By Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
December 20, 2008

EXCERPT...

Ohio Republican Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell hired Connell in 2004 to create a real-time computer data compilation for counting Ohio’s votes. Under Connell's supervision, Ohio’s presidential vote count was transmitted to private, partisan computer servers owned by SmartTech housed in the basement of the Old Pioneer Bank building in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Connell’s company, New Media Communications worked closely with SmartTech in building Republican and right-wing websites that were hosted on SmartTech servers. Among Connell’s clients were the Republican National Committee, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and gwb43.com, that housed at one point Karl Rove's missing emails. Rove's email files have since mysteriously disappeared despite repeated court-sanctioned attempts to review them.

In 2001, Michael Connell’s GovTech Solutions, LLC was selected to reorganize the Capitol Hill IT network, the only private-sector company to gain permission from HIR to place its server behind the firewall, he bragged.

At 12:20 am on the night of the 2004 election exit polls and initial vote counts showed John Kerry the clear winner of Ohio's presidential campaign. The Buckeye State's 20 electoral votes would have given Kerry the presidency.

But from then until around 2am, the flow of information mysteriously ceased. After that, the vote count shifted dramatically to George W. Bush, ultimately giving him a second term. In the end there was a 6.7 percent diversion---in Bush's favor---between highly professional, nationally funded exit polls and the final official vote count as tabulated by Blackwell and Connell.

Until his death Connell remained the IT supervisor for six Congressional committees. But on the day before the 2008 election, Connell was deposed by attorneys Cliff Arnebeck and Bob Fitrakis about his actions during the 2004 vote count, and his continued involvement in IT operations for the GOP, including his access to Rove's e-mail files and the circumstances behind their disappearance.

CONTINUED...

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2008/3320

PS: How quickly the pages turn. Thanks for standing up to Them, femrap.

[femrap]

152. I was afraid

he would be 'disappeared' 'suicided' 'accidented'....it was heartbreaking.

I wish I could somehow 'infiltrate' or 'mole' the SoS's office.

I used to dress up like a rich repugnant woman and go to the Big Repug meetings. It was eye-opening. I'd give the strategies to the Dem HQ of Kerry, but they'd do nothing. I could never understand why the Dems would send such idiots to Ohio???

I suppose I could go over to the Repug HQ in Franklin County and see what the strategies are going to be in the last 5 days leading up to the election. I'll go check out their website.

I pretend I'm Bette Davis or Joan Crawford....I should get an Oscar nomination for my role as the Rich and Snobby Repug woman! lol

[Octafish]

156. Eye opening, indeed.

I very much appreciate you going undercover. The greedheads only open up when they are with their "own kind." Please be carrful. Remember Danny Casolaro.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2819427&mesg_id=2819427

People treat me differently when I clean up and wear a suit, even when I don't buy anything. Once, at a school board meeting, I shook hands with a board member. The guy held back his pinky and ring fingers gave me a Masonic handshake, then apologized when I gave a normal handshake, saying he thought I was a "member."

In 2004, I worked some oppo, but the Kerry team objected when I called Bush "The Little Turd from Crawford." What they really wanted was money. They then stood down when the smear-boat liars ran the table.

[femrap]

157. I always remember to remove

any bumper stickers on my car before I go to the meetings...lol. All I have now is a tiny 99% one.

I'm not on the level of any of these journalists. But I don't doubt 'they' were 'suicided.'

I wonder if I can handle wearing heels anymore....maybe some cute flats w/ slacks.

What is a Masonic handshake???

I don't think the Dems are as scared as they were back in '04 with the Swift Boating. Stephanie Cutter, Campaign Deputy, seems to be a fighter and attacks right back at them. Now she should be worried.

Did I mention that the Dayton, OH (Montgomery County) Repug Leader stepped down due to 'stress' and a new one will be declared by the Repugs???? That really smells!!! I wonder what they're up to....It's just too close to the election for this to happen. I have friends in Cincy, but I don't know if any would like to 'mole' a meeting up there.

And even if one gets info, who wants it??? It's not like I can write Stephanie Cutter and say, "Hi, Guess what I found out?"

[quinnox]

49. amen and they should be locked as conspiracy

theories in my opinion. The other thing that is really annoying is they prepare a pre-emptive excuse if god forbid Obama does lose. Fuck that, if we lose I'll accept it and won't leap to some lame conspiracy as my first excuse.

[fredamae]

53. It may not "feel" like your vote

Counts, but it Does! Why Else Do You Think The GOP is Employing All These Various Means To Make Sure You CANNOT Vote?
Piss The GOP OFF and VOTE!

[freedom fighter jh]

57. Those posts have a purpose.

If the whole system is undermined, should that be ignored?

With the use of voting machines, there is no real verification of the vote. To focus on that and get it fixed, or if you can't get it fixed then at least be able to call foul if necessary, is better than just to plug your ears and shout "rah-rah."

[Skee]

59. It's not voting.

Not when it involves unreliable, unsecured electronics of
unknown design, build, programming or operation ...

[hrmjustin]

60. Yes I agree we should stop bemoaning that we are going to have it stolen from us. That does not...

... that we should not pay attention to the other sides tactics. Vigilance with optimism is the way to go.

[Tom Rinaldo]

64. I agree that bemoaning serves no useful function

We should
A) Use this concern as motivation to increase Obama's legitimate margin of victory and (I believe)
B) Act to make potential Election theft more difficult to pull off undetected (I wrote elsewhere on DU about this).

[YvonneCa]

95. For B, I like this...

...@videothevote.

[frylock]

61. sorry to harsh on your mellow..

maybe you don't have the fortitude for this. there is OVERWHELMING evidence that they will attempt to steal this. if you want feelgood, go to cheezburger.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

65. So, how many votes and how much enthusiasm will be lost due to posts here?

Millions? Thousands? Hundreds. Eight?

[scheming daemons]

67. Let me put it another way. Fear is a motivator, despair is the opposite

"I am afraid they will steal the election, so I am going to do everything I can to prevent that" = good

"They are going to steal it, so what's the use? I am so depressed." = bad

[nc4bo]

81. Anger is a most excellent motivator too

I know I'm mad as hell that any one would try to prevent poor people but especially minorities from voting. I'm sure I'm not the only one!

And not just because I'm a Dem and not just because I think Romney is absolutely the wrong person to lead this country and it's my duty to vote, mad because there are those who don't think people of color deserve to have a say in this or any other election.

Damn them - I'm also voting out of pure spite.

[judesedit]

69. Unfortunately, it is a reality! And in my opinion the more that vote the less likely they can steal

it. Why does that drive down voters? I think it makes people realize how important it is to get out there to make sure it doesn't happen...again. I guess what it boils down to is, are you a pessimist or an optimist? I am optimistic and can't wait to vote for Obama, but, I will vote on an absentee ballot and take it directly to campaign headquarters. You can, too. Might help ensure your vote counts.

[AgingAmerican]

70. They are definately trying to steal it

Which motivates me even more to vote

[april]

71. I just posted something like this as well

all of the dumping of voter registration forms, and Mitts son has interest (Bain ) in the voting machines ..what the hell the Bastards..

[1StrongBlackMan]

72. It is my constitutional right ...

to run around screaming with my hair on fire; doing my best impersonation of Chicken Little! Why do you hate America?

[Fumesucker]

74. We all know that Republicans would never, ever do something as dishonest as stealing an election

Anyone who says that they would do so is just indulging in conspiracy theories.

[Octafish]

131. 5 out of 9 agree with OP.

Last edited Sun Nov 4, 2012, 11:59 AM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2414083

[kimbutgar]

75. If we overwhelm them by turnout it will be hard for them to steal it

And if we vote early we can make sure our votes are counted. Especially in those republican controlled states make sure you vote early.

[George II]

76. I agree completely! This isn't 2000, or even 2004 - as they saying goes, "GET OVER IT!"

[Tom Rinaldo]

77. scheming daemons, I am curious if you have any response to my reply above (#32)

Serious not baited question.

[riqster]

79. Actually, they may well drive UP turnout

2000 was stolen, and it was close election.

2004 was stolen, and it was a close election.

2008 was not stolen - it was not a close election.

Get the picture? Get to the polls.

[treestar]

82. Agreed, to me that is OTT paranoia

Let's make it so it is not close enough for issues about hanging chads to arise. They didn't steal 2000 so much as they exploited the closeness of it.

[Time for change]

84. Do you believe that we should accept electronic machines owned by private corporations, many with

GOP political ties, that produce unverifiable vote counts, without protest?

You really believe that it is nonsense to fight against that?

[PatrynXX]

85. I'd disagree

they are going to steal it if it's a close election. that assertion should get everyone to have a massive turnout. calling other Dems trolls is counterproductive

[randome]

88. I agree with you about calling DUers trolls. The OP didn't do that but other responders did.

They are not going to steal this election, however. Romney is as unpopular as Palin. They can't steal this one without taking up arms and that's not going to happen.

[Plaid Adder]

86. Thank you. n/t

[TwilightGardener]

89. Pretty funny, coming from you. You had a MELTDOWN

after the first debate. Nothing but negativity.

[scheming daemons]

96. The 1st debate was just cause for a meltdown. But everything since has moved in the right direction.

[eyewall]

118. Frankly, considering your message in the OP, that sounds like hypocrisy.

no offense, just sayin'

[HomerRamone]

155. So everyone can only feel any pessimism when YOU say it's OK. Jesus. nt

[arthritisR_US]

98. Why does it have to depress the vote, what

about motivating others to make sure they vote, organize driving pools for voters?

[AlbertCat]

99. It creates a "what's the use? My vote won't matter" attitude and we can't let that take hold.

Nonsense!

Just because it brings YOU down, doesn't mean that's the response everyone has.

It makes me eager to go vote (Yay! I can today...early voting has started) because it reminds me they have stolen 2 already and the more people who vote, the less likely that will happen.

[2pooped2pop]

107. and really are there many or any on this site who won't vote

come hell or high water? We're discouraging them? I don't think DUer's can be stopped from voting, and if they think that people talking about a real issue on this site is going to effect people in the general population, then I think they think too highly of themselves and their personal affect on people.

[TBF]

102. Thank you. nt

[sharkman25]

106. I agree! The alarmist reaction to...hell, I don't know, is old already!

Early voting has only opened in a few states and some on here sound like their ready to throw in the towel already.

[allan01]

108. re:he "OMG they are going to steal it!!1!!" posts drive down enthusiasm and are counterproductive

ive already turned in my absentee ballot . my mind is made up. the rest of u get out there and re elect the o man and quit whining tht the election might be stolen, or perhaps you havent heard of this phrase ," it aint over untill the fat lady sings "

[RepublicansRZombies]

109. "fool me once, shame on..shame on you...fool me twice...can't get fooled again!" GW Bush

It might be history that has people concerned and the fact that people like the Romney's own the voting machines.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

110. K&R

[eyewall]

115. I can't think of a single thread that said

"what's the use? My vote won't matter"
"They are going to steal it, so what's the use?..."
"woe is us"

I find this offensive. I don't think anyone posting threads here is saying to not get out the vote, or to give up and don't bother.

Feel free to post as many happy threads as you want. I think some of the most positive threads are coming from people who ALSO try to point out fraud where it is happening. The biggest danger to the GOTV momentum is low information voters which results from ignoring issues and pretending everything is okay the way it is.

Threads about fraud are rooted in reality and IMHO they do NOT demotivate votes, they motivate action.

Pollyanna is an individual choice. Please stop ridiculing posters that are working to make this board informative and timely. Vote suppression and fraud by the GOP is happening right now. Ignore it if that makes you happier but don't mock those who investigate and shine a light on the real conspiracies that threaten our victories in many very contentious races.

Don't you ever watch Rachael Maddow? Maybe you should, she motivates the hell out of me and she is definitely not ignoring these issues.

[eyewall]

120. Another thought

the very dynamic you describe as being caused by information threads I think would more likely result from a preponderance of "everything is wonderful, don't worry about a thing" threads.

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. You know

there is this saying, about not being paranoid, but right.

This is an issue the party itself has been trying to ignore for so long it is not even funny.

[felix_numinous]

123. Although eternal vigilance is not weakness,

nor having heightened awareness and shining a bright light on voting fraud is not a conspiracy theory. It is a fact that Republicans around the country have been involved in attempting to steal this election, but they can only do this by dirty tricks or distraction. They can only do this if we cease watching them.

We absolutely have to win this election--and knowing what we are up against is a STRONG stance--we need to have President Obama's back.

[Zorra]

126. Nooo!1!

[Hugabear]

130. Bullshit.

If anything, it should be an alarm bell that we need to turn out the vote in record numbers. We know for a fact they will try to steal the election, they've done so in recent elections. The way to overcome this is to have such an overwhelming lead that they can't steal it.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

132. Rec +1,000,000.0000.000.000.000.9

IT HAD TO BE SAID.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

133. They delete defenseless puppies (PUPPIES!!!) from GD, but let this meta post stay

I think people are still going to vote; nothing to worry about. Let people say what people want to say, without so much concern for being able to control the conversation.

PUPPIES! JUST LIKE SADDAM!!!

[colsohlibgal]

134. Maybe

On the other hand sticking your head in the sand isn't a good idea either.

People should vote but I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time, the other side has zero scruples and will lie, cheat, and steal to win.

[Thegonagle]

135. Is ANYONE reading THIS forum thinking I was going to vote for Obama, but...

...but now I'm not going to bother voting at all?

Pffft. Thanks for your "concern," but that's not just not happening here at D.U.

[Flying Squirrel]

137. I can just imagine all the Republican operatives reccing this post.

In addition to those who are merely not thinking clearly, of course.

[wildeyed]

138. Also, many of them are very stupid. n/t

[AverageJoe90]

139. I agree with you to an extent, but.....

It is an important thing to keep in mind. As long as it doesn't get taken too far there shouldn't be any problems, IMO.

[Blue Owl]

140. Two words: Tagg Romney

Or: Hart Intercivic

The GOP can only win by lying, cheating, and stealing -- don't think for one second they are above such measures.

[Union Scribe]

141. Yeah, people should only talk about that after it happens

You know, when there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. The fact that you think the notion of GOPers trying to steal an election is "conspiracy nonsense" tells me you aren't really plugged in to the world we live in. They're out there throwing out ballots ffs, this isn't exactly new.

[bluestate10]

142. Exactly. The DU hair on fire crowd makes me want to throw up.

The way to beat bastards that are trying to take the vote from us is to persists through their bullshit, get the vote and vote the bastards out of office one by one. Anything else is paranoid bullshit.

[Nostradammit]

145. I completely disagree with your assertion

I seriously doubt that anybody politically astute enough to spend their time perusing this website is going to fail to vote.

Pointing out the obvious flaws and corruption in our system is our patriotic duty, and no amount of tut-tutting should prevent it.

[ButterflyBlood]

146. If I was a Freeper troll trying to infiltrate, that's exactly what I'd do

People should be quite familiar with concern trolling by now.

[Wednesdays]

147. K & R

Rec #100.

[Le Taz Hot]

149. Here's a thought.

People can, you know, do BOTH -- vote and be concerned about the integrity of the voting process. Most of us have the ability to multi-task like that.

[desertduck]

154. i'm with you on this! i'm sick of hearing this too...

...unless there is actually something new or concrete. but just an out of the blue, generalized concern...eh. no. enough already.

[proud2BlibKansan]

159. I miss unrec

[madinmaryland]

160. Oh, fer fuck sakes. Not this shit again.