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Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:35 PM

I'm not sure if this will cross the line, but if I stray across it will not be the first time.

I believe it is an accepted fact that the primary reason our party has not ditched the filibuster, passed the 3.5 trillion dollar infrastructure bill and the For the People Act is that Senators Manchin and Sinema want to keep the filibuster and refuse to support the two bills mentioned without "bipartisan support". (I will pause my typing here to cool down a little.)

It should be apparent at this point that the Republicans will NEVER support these measures---FULL STOP! So, by continuing to pretend that there is some small chance that EITHER our two Senators will decide to support our party and our POTUS OR 10 Republicans will---I can't hardly type this---do the right thing, we are writing the campaign ads for the Republicans running in the next election.

Something drastic needs doing. Continuing to smile and nod and murmur hopes that "minds will change" and "things will work out" cannot continue.

Please do not repeat all of the bad things that "will happen" if we stop smiling and make demands of some people. We are in danger of being branded as feckless and weak for not pushing through our programs when we control the White House and both chambers of Congress. That won't be "fair", I know, but have you any doubt McConnell and McCarthy and Trump will carpet-bomb the campaign airwaves with that and worse if we can't "produce"?

If we are urged to support "all Democrats"---which I do---why can't "all" of them support us?

72 replies, 5321 views

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Reply I'm not sure if this will cross the line, but if I stray across it will not be the first time. (Original post)
Atticus Sep 2021 OP
hlthe2b Sep 2021 #1
Chin music Sep 2021 #2
JohnSJ Sep 2021 #4
Chin music Sep 2021 #6
JohnSJ Sep 2021 #10
Chin music Sep 2021 #13
2naSalit Sep 2021 #15
Chin music Sep 2021 #17
2naSalit Sep 2021 #19
smirkymonkey Sep 2021 #28
Girard442 Sep 2021 #3
comradebillyboy Sep 2021 #7
comradebillyboy Sep 2021 #5
Chin music Sep 2021 #8
Atticus Sep 2021 #9
Atticus Sep 2021 #11
underthematrix Sep 2021 #12
stillcool Sep 2021 #14
BlueCheeseAgain Sep 2021 #16
Chin music Sep 2021 #18
BadgerMom Sep 2021 #20
Chin music Sep 2021 #23
BlueCheeseAgain Sep 2021 #27
housecat Sep 2021 #21
NurseJackie Sep 2021 #26
flying_wahini Sep 2021 #29
NurseJackie Sep 2021 #31
Atticus Sep 2021 #33
amywalk Sep 2021 #55
NurseJackie Sep 2021 #57
amywalk Sep 2021 #60
NurseJackie Sep 2021 #61
amywalk Sep 2021 #62
NurseJackie Sep 2021 #63
amywalk Sep 2021 #69
Post removed Sep 2021 #72
pnwmom Sep 2021 #70
Jon King Sep 2021 #22
in2herbs Sep 2021 #24
hamsterjill Sep 2021 #25
Atticus Sep 2021 #34
soldierant Sep 2021 #41
hamsterjill Sep 2021 #42
jalan48 Sep 2021 #30
Corgigal Sep 2021 #32
SunImp Sep 2021 #67
Mad_Machine76 Sep 2021 #35
Atticus Sep 2021 #37
Mad_Machine76 Sep 2021 #39
Atticus Sep 2021 #45
Mad_Machine76 Sep 2021 #51
Atticus Sep 2021 #58
soldierant Sep 2021 #44
BadgerMom Sep 2021 #68
Harker Sep 2021 #36
hibbing Sep 2021 #38
ymetca Sep 2021 #40
Atticus Sep 2021 #46
Wild blueberry Sep 2021 #43
Firestorm49 Sep 2021 #47
hamsterjill Sep 2021 #52
Lonestarblue Sep 2021 #48
The Mouth Sep 2021 #49
Atticus Sep 2021 #50
The Mouth Sep 2021 #53
Celerity Sep 2021 #71
amywalk Sep 2021 #54
qazplm135 Sep 2021 #56
Atticus Sep 2021 #59
qazplm135 Sep 2021 #64
Atticus Sep 2021 #65
qazplm135 Sep 2021 #66

Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:38 PM

1. I share your frustration and I am at a loss to understand ...

For the longest time, I thought that there might be some concerted effort behind the scenes to play "hardball" when the time was right. Now, I honestly don't know.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)


Response to Chin music (Reply #2)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:42 PM

4. Actually we need a massive turnout in 2022, so we don't need Manchin or Sinema to get rid of the

filibuster


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Response to JohnSJ (Reply #4)


Response to Chin music (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:50 PM

10. Chin it is doubtful that mass protests will change their minds, if what has happened hasn't done so

already

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Response to JohnSJ (Reply #10)


Response to Chin music (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:57 PM

15. I see parallels to...

The war that just ended. It's time to rip off the bandaid and deal with the infection. Apply new stitches as needed.

If we don't the festering will progress to the death of the organism... us.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #15)


Response to Chin music (Reply #17)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:05 PM

19. Agreed.

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Response to Chin music (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:31 PM

28. +1000

 

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:41 PM

3. I think it's time to go Mutually Assured Destruction on Manchin & Sinema

If they don't support our agenda (and thereby dooming us to defeat) we're going to make sure they end up sleeping on park benches and eating out of dumpsters, no matter what else happens.

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Response to Girard442 (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:45 PM

7. And how are you going to make that happen?

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:44 PM

5. Sinema and Manchin aren't the only Democratic Senators

who want to retain the filibuster. The others are perfectly content to let Manchin and Sinema take the heat however.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #5)


Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:48 PM

9. I understand, but I don't think any others are willing to ACTUALLY defy leadership and vote to

keep it when that would torpedo the Biden administration's popular programs.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #5)


Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:53 PM

12. I was wondering the same thing. BOTH FLORIDA and TEXAS

are stand your ground and yet yesterday they were reporting fistfights in Florida over masks. My question is where are the guns white folks said they needed to protect themselves? Why aren't they shooting each other masks. And in TEXAS, how are they gonna find these people and when they do what makes them think these women wont hunt them down and kill them?

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:56 PM

14. pedal to the metal

and go straight effing forward. Run over anything that gets in the way. Get boxed in... find a work-around, go off road, be smart. Try something from out of left-field. There is no right time, but everywhere you look there's a lot of no time.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 03:58 PM

16. A few notes

The $3.5 trillion infrastructure bill isn't affected by the filibuster. The voting rights legislation and things like the minimum wage are, for sure.

From what I gather, Manchin and Sinema are not the only Democrats opposed to getting rid of the filibuster. To me, the easiest way to get around the filibuster is to increase the Democratic majority, in order to find 50 Dems who will support it.

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Response to BlueCheeseAgain (Reply #16)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:05 PM

18. Who are are these illusive others my friend?

Why don't we start voting on it and find our instead of having this illusory "others too" argument. It's a way to procrastinate and I hear it more on right wing news. It seems to me a way to smother movement. jmho though.
Hows about one vote now so we can see who these folks are (if they even are) and we can start pinning them down? What else they have to do? Pass infrastructure? So all the money is arranged and paid for during the next term and the gop takes the credit? No. Infrastructure is important, but, I'm not interested in rebuilding a USA so modern day nazis can benefit. Voting rights first. And soon.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:08 PM

20. I hope it's okay to say this. I'm ready to bribe

Manchin and Sinema. I guess pork barrel politics has been tried with them. What do they want? What can be offered to persuade them to restore rule by the majority?

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Response to BadgerMom (Reply #20)


Response to BadgerMom (Reply #20)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:28 PM

27. I think horse trading is a very underrated way of doing legislation.

I have no problem of giving others something they want to get something we want, so long as it's not that harmful, of course.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:11 PM

21. I wonder who already paid off those two

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Response to housecat (Reply #21)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:27 PM

26. So, you're accusing two Democrats of taking bribes? Where's the evidence?

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #26)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:32 PM

29. I have heard of it as well. That they were paid off.


If you are online I am sure you have too. Don’t you think It COULD be true without any trail?

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Response to flying_wahini (Reply #29)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:34 PM

31. Lulz.

I have heard of it as well. That they were paid off.
It's online! Surely it must be true!

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #31)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:38 PM

33. I agree. That's right up there with "Many people say---" nt

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #26)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 06:25 PM

55. It was in an article a couple of weeks ago.

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Response to amywalk (Reply #55)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 06:30 PM

57. I'm convinced! 😜😂🤣😜


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Response to amywalk (Reply #60)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 07:03 PM

61. Lulz.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #61)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 07:15 PM

62. Did you read the article?

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Response to amywalk (Reply #62)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 07:21 PM

63. Where's the part about taking bribes?

Where's the illegal part? Y'all are just going to have to learn to accept the fact that Manchin is a conservative Democrat from a very RED state. Live with it and move on... focus on what's doable rather than obsessing about what's not going to change.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #26)


Response to housecat (Reply #21)

Fri Sep 3, 2021, 05:34 AM

70. It's a miracle that Manchin, who votes with us 60% of the time, got elected in the single state

with the highest percent of Trump voters in 2016, and the second highest in 2020.

He's more conservative because he's representing an even more conservative state.

And Sinema holds a seat that Republican John McCain used to hold. She also has to keep more conservative voters in mind.

I think Biden and Schumer have to figure out how those two states could benefit from their Senators agreeing to stay with the Dems on crucial votes. Old fashioned horse-trading, LBJ style.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:13 PM

22. Manchin and Sinema are only interested in their jobs.

Great jobs with great benefits, able to get jobs for their family and friends. They have internal polling that dictates their every move. None of this is about right or wrong. Its simply what their internal pollster tells them gives them the best chance of keeping the job. Minority or majority....same pay, same benefits.

Manchin is 100% right, he will keep his job. Sinema may be miscalculating in Arizona though.

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Response to Jon King (Reply #22)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:19 PM

24. She's not getting my vote. I'll leave her position blank before I'd vote for her again. nt

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:27 PM

25. Great post!

Sounds like you hope to see Democrats get something done.

I never understand why that desire is constantly criticized on DU. “But…but…but…they caaaaaannnnn’t do this, or they can’t do that…”

I want to win. I thought Democrats did, too. They need to figure this out. Get creative. Do what’s necessary. And before I’m flamed for this - no, it is not MY job to figure it out for them. That is for the leaders of the party who are paid to do it.

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #25)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:39 PM

34. Thanks. nt

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Response to hamsterjill (Reply #25)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:13 PM

41. I also want to win. But, at 76, I've learned that beating each other up

is not a winning strategy in the long run.

At least not for us. Democrats beating each other up is definitely a winning strategy for Republicans.

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Response to soldierant (Reply #41)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:14 PM

42. I honestly don't care how it gets done.

As long as it gets done. We are running out of time and we are going to be sitting here as losers in 2022 patting ourselves on the back for being “the good guys”?

Not good enough for me any more.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:33 PM

30. K & R

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:34 PM

32. I'm not sure

why DU made this rule. If we can’t vent about what we see our Democratic partners aren’t doing for us, within our own , and I find it sad. I never believed republicans need our ideas to decide how to attack us.

I got in big trouble here once, just for telling DUers about a candidate who had a 300 million war chest, to stop donating to her. She wasn’t going to win. I got in trouble, but I just wanted to save us regular earning people their money, or give to money to our Georgia candidates. Or keep it in your pocket. Since I’ve been here so long, and people understood why I was doing it, I’m still here.

I understand you, and I love this place, but the censorship on this topic, when it’s something we need to discuss is silly. One day, if we have a guideline, we can.

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Response to Corgigal (Reply #32)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 08:18 PM

67. It's a shame some of the rules are very restrictive to open discussion

I find nothing wrong with what the op has written.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:40 PM

35. I understand and share your frustration

But our numbers don't permit a huge amount of flexibility right now. I would be a bit more concerned/frustrated if we had the numbers we had in 2009, however, we don't and I think that Pelosi and Schumer and Biden are probably playing the game as best they can. Our political situation flatly sucks. We have a closely divided Senate, fewer seats in the House than 2019, fewer governorships, fewer state legislatures, and are dealing with a runaway 6-3 RW majority SCOTUS that was achieved by a lot of Republican corruption and keeps throwing sand in the gears everytime we try to make some progress. Add to that we're all suffering under this pandemic, which Republicans, especially in Texas and Florida seem to be trying to needlessly prolong. Add to this the outrageous situation that just happened in Texas with abortion rights. There's no easy way out right now. It would have been better if we had won in 2000, 2002, 2004, 2010, 2014, and, especially 2016 but we didn't and now a lot of what we're seeing is a direct outcome of Republican electoral domination, especially at the state and local levels. We're going to have to dig ourselves out of this hole, pretty much an inch at a time, unfortunately.

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Response to Mad_Machine76 (Reply #35)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:00 PM

37. And I understand what you are saying, I just disagree. We have to contend with that 6-3 SCOTUS

because we "played nice" and ALLOWED a seat to be stolen. Replace Gorsuch with Garland and we still have Roe v. Wade in Texas.

If we accept making progress "an inch at a time", we must prepare to see the Trump party run over us and watch their taillights disappear over the horizon. History will not be kind to us if we let them write it.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #37)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:09 PM

39. I don't know if I would say that we "played nice" and ALLOWED a stolen seat

Republicans used their power that they had because they won the Senate in 2014 to exploit the Constitution to prevent confirmation hearings or even a vote on Garland. Do you think that if the Democrats had had a legal option to get Garland confirmed, they wouldn't have done it? Plus, who exactly thought that TRUMP would win the election in 2016? Even many Republicans assumed Hillary would win.

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Response to Mad_Machine76 (Reply #39)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:28 PM

45. Which options were "legal" are often determined by the winners. IMHO, we allowed an unprecedented

corruption of the Senate's clear Constitutional duty by a shameless mob of political thugs.

As Churchill said, "It is not enough to do our best. We must do what is necessary."

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Response to Atticus (Reply #45)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:57 PM

51. Uh. Ok.

I thought that *we* lived and played by rules set out in our Constitution (which needs to be fine tuned and updated some to be sure), but what would you have recommended they do to handle the situation back at that time?

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Response to Mad_Machine76 (Reply #51)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 06:31 PM

58. If your "we" included the Republican Party, you are sadly mistaken, IMHO. nt

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Response to Atticus (Reply #37)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:19 PM

44. All the Federal courts have multiple vacancies,

and they would still be understaffed if all those vacancies were to be filled.

There are currently 13 Federal Districts, each assigned to one SCOTUS Justice to preside over. That means some justices are doubling and tripling up.

Expanding all the federal Courts could lead to support for increasing the size of SCOTUS. I don't believe widespread support for that exists now.

I do realize timing is essential. No point in doing the work just to give seats to Republicans.

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Response to soldierant (Reply #44)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 08:57 PM

68. Republicans don't care about widespread support.

Most Americans are for health care, choice, infrastructure. Republicans storm ahead doing what’s unpopular with most Americans. No norm is too sacred for them to trample. No amount of hypocrisy is too much for them. I don’t want to be like them. It’s not my natural bent. But I think we must take some cues from them. Democrats NEVER would have kept from a vote a Supreme Court nominee of a Republican President when there was so much time prior to an election. Republicans did it to Obama without blinking an eye. Then they voted in Coney Barrett right before an election without even acknowledging their hypocrisy. Do I think them vile? You bet. But my point is that they use something that is not specified in the Constitution but practiced in one way for decades and do it differently to gain an advantage. We Dems need a bit of that chutzpah. Do you think for a New York minute that Mitch McConnell would hesitate to expand the Supreme Court if it meant Republicans were in a stronger position? Would he worry about how popular a move it might be? We could sell an expansion based on the fact there are 13 circuits and only 9 justices. Last time the Court was increased it was because the Circuits had been. We don’t need Manchin and Sinema to play coy about the filibuster in that instance. McConnell has barreled through that wall already. Filibusters of judicial nominees is in the rearview mirror. We need to be more proactive when it comes to using power.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 04:51 PM

36. If you've crossed a line, it's one that a great number of us

would step over in solidarity to stand by you.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:01 PM

38. The other party "negotiates" in bad faith as usual n/t

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:11 PM

40. You're under the impression

that our President wants to get rid of the filibuster, or pack the courts, or even supports anything close to the Green New Deal. I see no evidence he actually does, or his Congressional leaders.

Manchin and Sinema are just "taking one for the team".

But this is something of which one dares not speak!


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Response to ymetca (Reply #40)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:32 PM

46. I'm sure you can cite sources to support such serious accusations. Please share them with us. nt

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:19 PM

43. K&R a millilon times

Yes. We need to fight with all we've got in the few months we have left (before 2022 campaigns begin in earnest).
I'm seventy and it really is all on the line, by which I mean our democracy.
Thank you, Atticus.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:34 PM

47. Republicans have no qualm shoving outrageous

legislation up our butts. It’s time to stop being nice and DO SOMETHING. Pack the Supreme Court now. Look at what Republicans did with the SC with no remorse. They have the killer attitude that we best discover very soon, or we can kiss our asses goodbye.

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Response to Firestorm49 (Reply #47)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:59 PM

52. Well said!

Time for some action!

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:37 PM

48. Perhaps Biden can offer Manchin a cushy job like a prestigious ambassadorship after 2023

if he gets on board with the Biden agenda. I have no clue what motivates Sinema. She seems to enjoy her role as the spoiler.

If we can eke out at least two more wins and lose none in the Senate in 2022, that would be best but I fear Republicans will cheat in some states. There’s no question in my mind that Georgia Republicans will do whatever it takes to ensure that Senator Warnock loses. Thus we need three wins to make Manchin and Sinema immaterial.


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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:40 PM

49. And if we end back up as the minority party in the Senate

We might damned well need to filibuster stuff.

WE aren't always going to have the Senate majority.

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Response to The Mouth (Reply #49)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 05:47 PM

50. Please ---that amounts to saving the filibuster that MIGHT help us some time in the future

despite the fact it IS killing us now.

We've "kept our powder dry" for way too long. It's time to use it.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #50)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 06:10 PM

53. Not going to happen

Senators damned well enjoy having that power. Anyone who expects the filibuster to be gotten rid of is going to be disappointed.

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Response to The Mouth (Reply #49)

Fri Sep 3, 2021, 05:45 AM

71. No, it almost always blocks Dems and has little impact on Rethugs

My own add - Sinema wants a 60 vote threshold on EVERY legislative action!. Not joking.



The filibuster hurts only Senate Democrats -- and Mitch McConnell knows that. The numbers don't lie.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/filibuster-hurts-only-senate-democrats-mitch-mcconnell-knows-n1255787

snip

Cutting off debate in the Senate so legislation can be voted on is done through a procedure called "cloture," which requires three-fifths of the Senate — or 60 votes — to pass. I went through the Senate's cloture votes for the last dozen years from the 109th Congress until now, tracking how many of them failed because they didn't hit 60 votes. It's not a perfect method of tracking filibusters, but it's as close as we can get. It's clear that Republicans have been much more willing — and able — to tangle up the Senate's proceedings than Democrats. More important, the filibuster was almost no impediment to Republican goals in the Senate during the Trump administration. Until 2007, the number of cloture votes taken every year was relatively low, as the Senate's use of unanimous consent agreements skipped the need to round up supporters. While a lot of the cloture motions did fail, it was still rare to jump that hurdle at all — and even then, a lot of the motions were still agreed to through unanimous consent. That changed when Democrats took control of Congress in 2007 and McConnell first became minority leader. The number of cloture motions filed doubled compared to the previous year, from 68 to 139.

Things only got more dire as the Obama administration kicked off in 2009, with Democrats in control of the House, the Senate and the White House. Of the 91 cloture votes taken during the first two years of President Barack Obama's first term, 28 — or 30 percent — failed. All but three failed despite having majority support. The next Congress was much worse after the GOP took control of the House: McConnell's minority blocked 43 percent of all cloture votes taken from passing. Things were looking to be on the same course at the start of Obama's second term. By November 2013, 27 percent of cloture votes had failed even though they had majority support. After months of simmering outrage over blocked nominees grew, Senate Democrats triggered the so-called nuclear option, dropping the number of votes needed for cloture to a majority for most presidential nominees, including Cabinet positions and judgeships. The next year, Republicans took over the Senate with Obama still in office. By pure numbers, the use of the filibuster rules skyrocketed under the Democratic minority: 63 of 123 cloture votes failed, or 51 percent. But there's a catch: Nothing that was being voted on was covered by the new filibuster rules. McConnell had almost entirely stopped bringing Obama's judicial nominees to the floor, including Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland.

McConnell defended the filibuster on the Senate floor last week, reminding his counterparts of their dependence on it during President Donald Trump's term. "Democrats used it constantly, as they had every right to," he said. "They were happy to insist on a 60-vote threshold for practically every measure or bill I took up." Except, if anything, use of the filibuster plummeted those four years. There are two main reasons: First, and foremost, the amount of in-party squabbling during the Trump years prevented any sort of coordinated legislative push from materializing. Second, there wasn't actually all that much the Republicans wanted that needed to get past the filibuster in its reduced state after the 2013 rule change. McConnell's strategy of withholding federal judgeships from Obama nominees paid off in spades, letting him spend four years stuffing the courts with conservatives. And when Trump's first Supreme Court nominee, Neil Gorsuch, was filibustered, McConnell didn't hesitate to change the rules again. Trump's more controversial nominees also sailed to confirmation without any Democratic votes. Legislatively, there were only two things Republicans really wanted: tax cuts and repeal of Obamacare. The Trump tax cuts they managed through budget reconciliation, a process that allows budget bills to pass through the Senate with just a majority vote.

Republicans tried to do the same for health care in 2017 to avoid the filibuster, failing only during the final vote, when Sen. John McCain's "no" vote denied them a majority. The repeal wouldn't have gone through even if the filibuster had already been in the grave. As a result, the number of successful filibusters plummeted: Over the last four years, an average of 7 percent of all cloture motions failed. In the last Congress, 298 cloture votes were taken, a record. Only 26 failed. Almost all of the votes that passed were on nominees to the federal bench or the executive branch. In fact, if you stripped out the nominations considered in the first two years of Trump's term, the rate of failure would be closer to 15 percent — but on only 70 total votes. There just wasn't all that much for Democrats to get in the way of with the filibuster, which is why we didn't hear much complaining from Republicans. Today's Democrats aren't in the same boat. Almost all of the big-ticket items President Joe Biden wants to move forward require both houses of Congress to agree. And given McConnell's previous success in smothering Obama's agenda for political gain, his warnings about the lack of "concern and comity" that Democrats are trying to usher in ring hollow. In actuality, his warnings of "wait until you're in the minority again" shouldn't inspire concern from Democrats. So long as it applies only to legislation, the filibuster is a Republicans-only weapon. There's nothing left, it seems, for the GOP to fear from it — aside from its eventual demise.

snip

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 06:23 PM

54. Because Manchin is receiving a lot of dark money from

Koch and other Conservative Billionaires to not support Democrats. Idk about Sinema, but I would bet it’s something similar. They are snakes in the grass and we have got to figure out a way to twist their arms and make them do their freaking jobs and support their own party. McConnell and McCarthy will dump the filibuster like a hot potato to screw over Democrats if they win next time.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 06:30 PM

56. because we are a big tent

and because Manchin still being a senator from WV is a goddamn miracle.

Ultimately, if you want those changes, you and everyone else needs to work on getting more Dem senators.

If Feingold beats Johnson in WI, Manchin doesn't matter.

If we beat Susan Collins in Maine, Sinema doesn't matter.

If we had won in FL, NC, and a couple of other places the last two cycles, we'd actually have a bit of wiggle room.

I get the anger, but it's truly impotent rage if it's not redirected into getting more Dems into office.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #56)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 06:45 PM

59. Getting "more Dems into office" is being made more difficult each day as Republicans rewrite

state laws everywhere to make voting more difficult and the actual totals irrelevant if they don't like them.

If we don't pass a FEDERAL statute to guarantee free and fair elections AND uniform transparent vote counting procedures, we may never again have the chance to preserve our democracy. You may consider that hyperbolic. If you do, I genuinely hope you are correct in your opinion.

Thanks for your response.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #59)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 07:31 PM

64. It is hyperbolic

The only people it could possibly affect are Manchin and Sinema.

For everyone else, what purpose does it serve except depressing turnout?

That statute isn't happening.

So what's next? Give up or fight?

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #64)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 07:53 PM

65. Since that post makes absolutely no sense to me and is steeped in negativity,

I'll neither give up or fight. I'll just say "Have a good evening" and hope we can find something to agree upon some other day.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #65)

Thu Sep 2, 2021, 07:55 PM

66. How does it make no sense?

Simple question, it doesn't pass.

What should people do in 22 elections?

Should they operate as if their vote matters or not?

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