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Sun Sep 5, 2021, 05:38 PM

I am sure many here already know this, but for those who don't, a human fetus at 6 weeks of

development---the time beyond which Texas now prohibits abortion---is about the size of a kidney bean and has a little tail making it resemble a tadpole.

Most non-experts would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between a human fetus and that of a pig at a similar stage in development.

Of course, that's just scientific fact; not as reliable as, say, the internet research of a Texas legislator.

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Reply I am sure many here already know this, but for those who don't, a human fetus at 6 weeks of (Original post)
Atticus Sep 2021 OP
KT2000 Sep 2021 #1
mopinko Sep 2021 #4
Ilsa Sep 2021 #9
mopinko Sep 2021 #22
Bev54 Sep 2021 #7
Hekate Sep 2021 #18
Joinfortmill Sep 2021 #2
RandomNumbers Sep 2021 #3
MiniMe Sep 2021 #24
LakeArenal Sep 2021 #5
littlemissmartypants Sep 2021 #19
Bev54 Sep 2021 #6
evolves Sep 2021 #8
WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2021 #10
SammyWinstonJack Sep 2021 #12
Wounded Bear Sep 2021 #26
bronxiteforever Sep 2021 #11
iwannaknow Sep 2021 #13
barbtries Sep 2021 #14
Pachamama Sep 2021 #23
Jon King Sep 2021 #15
ecstatic Sep 2021 #31
TheRickles Sep 2021 #16
tymorial Sep 2021 #17
albacore Sep 2021 #21
tymorial Sep 2021 #25
albacore Sep 2021 #29
markie Sep 2021 #20
Collimator Sep 2021 #27
tavernier Sep 2021 #28
Faux pas Sep 2021 #30

Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 05:40 PM

1. Yes - as I understand it

what they call a heart beat is actually electrical pulses that start much before the heart is formed.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 05:48 PM

4. the pulse helps the cells align. at 6 wks, it's a tube of cells.

 

in another month, it sorta curls up into the shape we know, and grows valves.
til then, it isnt a heart. no heart valves, no heart beat.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #4)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 06:19 PM

9. And the heart's circulation isn't "set" until birth, or

slightly afterward, when the foramen ovale closes between the left and right ventricles, if I remember pediatric physiology correctly.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #9)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 07:42 PM

22. it pumps the fetuses own blood around

 

but since it isnt breathing oxygen, it doesnt go to the lungs. so, the chambers are not separate.
the opening between the 2 closes closer to birth. why a lot of preemies need surgery to close the hole.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 05:58 PM

7. What about all those frozen embryos that people discard

are they too, considered murder now?

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Response to Bev54 (Reply #7)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 07:22 PM

18. Depends on who you ask. They aren't even embryos yet, just people's hopes & dreams...

… and very expensive they are, too, and difficult to attain.

I know couples who’ve tried it, and one couple only stopped when after many repeated cycles two things occurred: she finally produced three (3) eggs and they had spent $100,000 in savings. This was about 20 years ago. It was heartbreaking, but they were people of good sense and had set a financial limit.

A couple of decades ago, the fanatics used the unchosen frozen as another way to twist people’s hearts & bypass their brains. Because they are stored in liquid nitrogen, the fanatics started referring to them as “Snowflake Babies,” isn’t that adorable? They encouraged pro-lifers to volunteer to accept any unwanted snowflake babies into their own uteri and raise them as their own. This is neither sensible nor legal, but it makes good propaganda.



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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 05:40 PM

2. 👍

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 05:42 PM

3. And it doesn't matter. I can't be forced to give blood or donate a kidney

to save a full grown human, why should a woman be forced to submit to something much more invasive than blood donation, even to "save a life"? (not to mention at 6 weeks, even 12 or later, it is not 100% guaranteed that life will ever be viable as an independent life)

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Response to RandomNumbers (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 08:04 PM

24. I think that should be -34 weeks instead of 6 weeks

I believe that 40 weeks is what the average gestation is, so this zygote is actually -34 weeks from birth

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 05:49 PM

5. Zygote for ten weeks?

An embryo is the early stage of human development in which organs are critical body structures are formed. An embryo is termed a fetus beginning in the 11th week of pregnancy, which is the 9th week of development after fertilization of the egg. A zygote is a single-celled organism resulting from a fertilized egg.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #5)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 07:29 PM

19. Thanks for sharing that.

Fetus doesn't equal embryo. A commonly confused distinction. ❤

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 05:55 PM

6. It is not a fetus but an embryo at that stage.

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Response to Bev54 (Reply #6)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 06:10 PM

8. Thank you.

Not that "science" matters....

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 06:22 PM

10. Doesn't matter how big it is. If someone doesn't want to be pregnant, they shouldn't have to be.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #10)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 07:04 PM

12. Exactly.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #10)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 08:38 PM

26. This gentleman (well, I try) agrees...nt

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 06:57 PM

11. Kick and recommend.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 07:05 PM

13. And unless I am wrong,

a twelve week fetus resembles that of a chicken. The point is, to state the obvious, a fetus is NOT A HUMAN BEING!!!!!! There. I got that off my chest. AGAIN!!!!!!!

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 07:11 PM

14. my understanding is that

it's not a fetus at 6 weeks; it's an embryo.

How long does the embryonic stage of pregnancy typically last?
The first two weeks after conception are known as the germinal stage, the third through the eighth week is known as the embryonic period, and the time from the ninth week until birth is known as the fetal period.Jun 1, 2020

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Response to barbtries (Reply #14)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 08:00 PM

23. +100000

We need to make sure we use correct language when discussing these laws…

It’s an embryo at 6 weeks - not a fetus

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 07:15 PM

15. Somebody ought to tell this to baby center.com, they talk about a heartbeat, etc.

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Response to Jon King (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 6, 2021, 05:11 PM

31. It's a flutter, not a heartbeat. BC should clarify that.

But what exactly do we mean when we talk about a "fetal heartbeat" at six weeks of pregnancy? Although some people might picture a heart-shaped organ beating inside a fetus, this is not the case.

Rather, at six weeks of pregnancy, an ultrasound can detect "a little flutter in the area that will become the future heart of the baby," said Dr. Saima Aftab, medical director of the Fetal Care Center at Nicklaus Children's Hospital in Miami. This flutter happens because the group of cells that will become the future "pacemaker" of the heart gain the capacity to fire electrical signals, she said.


https://www.livescience.com/65501-fetal-heartbeat-at-6-weeks-explained.html

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 07:15 PM

16. Good points. At that stage, it's just an embryo.

Using the term "fetus" is a calculated emotional manipulation. Can you tell the difference between these images of a human and an elephant embryo?
https://edu.glogster.com/glog/embryological-development-in-vertebrates/229268e5lbu?=glogpedia-source

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 07:17 PM

17. Honestly, it shouldn't even matter. I know what you mean though.

There is no heart as we understand it. It's an excuse to ban abortion.

This decision and law has caused some horrible feelings and emotions to resurface in my home. My wife needed to terminate 2 pregnancies. One was labeled an abnormal pregnancy because it occurred outside the uterus. It was early enough that a DC wasn't necessary but it still meant ending what we hoped would become our baby. This probably would have occurred under the Texas law but the second one wouldn't and it would have buried us.

My wife and I struggled for years to conceive. I pushed for testing a treatment because we were just not conceiving. My labs were normal, not great but normal. My wife was fine. We were just older, approaching 40. We met late.

Anyway, she became pregnant after the 3rd IUI and everything was fine until we went for the 12 week ultrasound. There were some abnormalities in the images that led the radiologist to believe there was a high degree if probability that our baby would be trisome. We had the tests done and waited for the next ultrasound. The doctor showed us all that was wrong with out boy. His arms were deformed, his abdomen was open and his intestines were out... it was obvious in the ultrasound even to us. We learned he was trisome 18, Edwards. It was devastating. He may not survive the pregnancy. If he was delivered, he would die in the first year and would never leave the hospital. Would he be in pain? Would it be torture? There was no decision to be made. It was right to terminate and save our baby boy from pain.

I have his ultrasound images in a lock box in my office. My wife can't bare to see them. We named him Alex.

My wife's life wasn't at risk. She was in no danger of dying. He wasn't a mistake. We wanted him. But we would have been forced to just wait it out and see what happened. What kind of torture would that have been for us? What if he lived until 6 or 7 months into the pregnancy? My wife delivers our dead child who is terribly deformed? Can you imagine the psychological trauma of that? Would my wife and I survive? He'll, would our 5 year old daughter be here today?


So yeah, thr Texas law is very real for people like us. 1 in 2500 pregnancies. That is the statistic. Some family is going to go through the torture I just outlined and it's totally inhumane.

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Response to tymorial (Reply #17)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 07:32 PM

21. I'm weeping with you...

My son and his wife faced a very similar situation ... trisomy 13.. 26 weeks.
They had our full support and love when they made their decision. They said that there was no real choice.. it had to be terminated for the same reasons you did.
They had named him Samson

The idea that some mentally constipated legislator would intervene AT ALL in that tragedy makes me unreasonably, even violently angry.

How DARE those fucking people even say one word to a couple facing that kind of heartbreak.

I'm glad you had a "rainbow baby" girl. My son and his wife did, too.

https://www.parents.com/baby/what-it-means-to-be-a-rainbow-baby-and-why-rainbow-babies-are-beautiful/

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Response to albacore (Reply #21)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 08:08 PM

25. I never heard that before. Its really wonderful

We gave up by the time our daughter was conceived. We laugh that she is a classic, a total cliché. She was conceived after we gave up all fertility treatments.

We tried for about 2 years on our own after getting married. Our siblings are younger than us by 4 or 5 years but they married their spouses the same year as us in 2010. They became pregnant easily and it really bummed us out. We started fertility treatments and we got pregnant the first time but it was an abnormal pregnancy. We tried another iui and failed. The 3rd IUI ended as I described. Our doctor believed IVF would be successful so we went that route. We had 2 rounds but neither ever resulted in a pregnancy. According to our doctor the hormone levels and sperm count were perfect and it was just timing. There was no reason to not try for a 3rd. We couldn't do it anymore. It wasn't the financial cost. Our state required fertility coverage by insurance. It was the emotional cost and devastation.

Anyway, after the last failed IVF I had to travel for a few weeks. I went to New Orleans for a job, came back for a couple days and then headed off to Pennsylvania. Our cat was very sick and she has been with me for 16 years. I felt awful leaving her and when I came back I knew she held on just for me. Trust me, that cat definitely did. She was my buddy through very hard times before I met my wife.

Anyway, we put her to sleep knowing it was necessary. My wife and I comforted each other and reconnected as a husband and wife in love should...

5 weeks later we found an article about a trio of cats that needed adopting and were all close. They could only be adopted together. We reached out to the agency and we were able to get them. A week later after settling in I realized that my wife had not had her period in some time. I knew that wasn't unusual given the IVF. Sometimes it can take a month or two but this was closer to 3 months. I suggested to her that she might be pregnant. She said no way that is possible but she did a home pregnancy test one morning at work (yes, at work. I know.. it's odd to me too but that's my bride.)

She called me and told me that she was pregnant. I laughed. That was my response. I laughed because if the irony, because we had such a horrible past year, because we just adopted the damned cats as our fur babies. Mainly I laughed because I was so excited and it was the only response.

Our daughter was born a little over 7 months later. She was conceived just after I returned from my last trip. She is 5 now, just entered kindergarten and has a double shot of stubborn pain in the ass attitude from her mother and I.

She really is our miracle baby.

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Response to tymorial (Reply #25)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 11:14 PM

29. You deserve it... ALL of it. The shot of "pain in the ass" and everything.

She's a rainbow, though, and that outweighs everything.
I know my granddaughter gets extra love from this old man!
Give your girl a hug from me.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 07:31 PM

20. ...

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 08:44 PM

27. No, scientific fact never stands in their way.

Some of these same people believe that the standard Pill causes an abortion each month, instead of understanding that the hormones in the medication forestall the release of an egg in the first place.

They listen to their own sources, and close their eyes to any scientific literature (even written for the lay public) that explains the actual facts.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sun Sep 5, 2021, 08:58 PM

28. I appreciate your post and breakdown

of the fetus at that stage, but you were almost making it sound like this combination of cells could develop into most anything; a frog or a pig or a donkey. But of course we all know that that’s not true. As it grows it will become a human. So to me your argument is not really that strong in favor of pro-choice. I think the emphasis should be on the fact that we should all be able to make decisions for our own bodies as every situation is different. As a nurse I’ve heard of women dying because a hospital would not perform abortions in critical situations and transfer of patient caused death to both mother and fetus. There are many situations and many reasons, and those decisions should be up to the woman, often including the advice of her doctor and family. Not strangers wearing black robes who don’t even know her name.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Mon Sep 6, 2021, 04:48 PM

30. Kickin' for Truth

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