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Fri Sep 10, 2021, 02:56 PM

Is natural immunity better than being vaccinated?

Last edited Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:48 PM - Edit history (2)

https://dearpandemic.org/natural-vs-vaccine-generated-immunity/?fbclid=IwAR3L2zgF-y3YaJV5TdKmGAXwylTGV63Se-YzRZ9m-SxBYXzgTj_BsitL7_8

A. COVID-19 vaccines induce higher levels and a broader range of neutralizing antibodies to the receptor binding domain (RBD) of the spike protein than does natural infection. Vaccine-induced antibodies are less likely to be affected by changes in the RBD seen in the current SARS-CoV-2 variants, and are therefore more likely to be more effective against variants.
➡️ TL;DR. The receptor binding domain (RBD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein binds to ACE2 receptors on human cells, allowing the virus to enter. A robust neutralizing antibody response against the RBD is critical for protection against infection. While both natural infection and COVID-19 vaccines induce neutralizing antibodies to RBD, COVID-19 vaccines induce a much LARGER VARIETY of neutralizing antibodies to RBD than does natural infection. What does this mean for immunity to SARS-CoV-2 infection? Vaccine-induced antibodies can bind to MANY more places on the RBD than natural infection-induced antibodies can and may therefore be more effective in blocking the virus (and its variants) from entering human cells.


Great article worth reading!



On edit: This Facebook post by the same people addresses the recent Israel study using multiple other studies that back their claims: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=397795295182457&id=105606064401383&m_entstream_source=timeline

31 replies, 1468 views

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is natural immunity better than being vaccinated? (Original post)
ColinC Sep 10 OP
ret5hd Sep 10 #1
ColinC Sep 10 #2
ret5hd Sep 10 #14
Hugh_Lebowski Sep 10 #3
Treefrog Sep 10 #19
Hugh_Lebowski Sep 10 #22
Treefrog Sep 10 #27
Alpeduez21 Sep 10 #5
ret5hd Sep 10 #7
Buckeye_Democrat Sep 10 #4
BlueIdaho Sep 10 #6
FBaggins Sep 10 #9
Buckeye_Democrat Sep 10 #11
totodeinhere Sep 10 #24
Buckeye_Democrat Sep 10 #25
totodeinhere Sep 11 #31
stillcool Sep 10 #8
Tomconroy Sep 10 #10
Buckeye_Democrat Sep 10 #12
Tomconroy Sep 10 #13
Buckeye_Democrat Sep 10 #15
Tomconroy Sep 10 #16
Buckeye_Democrat Sep 10 #18
ColinC Sep 10 #17
Tomconroy Sep 10 #21
ColinC Sep 10 #26
womanofthehills Sep 10 #20
Tomconroy Sep 10 #23
gulliver Sep 10 #28
ColinC Sep 10 #29
Zeitghost Sep 10 #30

Response to ColinC (Original post)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:05 PM

1. I read somewhere that...

if you are dead, you are immune to almost everything!

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #1)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:07 PM

2. Good point!!

Flawless logic!

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Response to ColinC (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:21 PM

14. You may already be dead! How to tell:

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #1)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:08 PM

3. Still, it's good to be able to make the argument from a statistically-backed position

That people have no excuse to not get vaccinated ... just because they've already had the Covid.

There are a lot of such people actually.

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Response to Hugh_Lebowski (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:48 PM

19. I had the virus.

A year ago.

Fully vaxxed since the end of April.

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Response to Treefrog (Reply #19)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 05:04 PM

22. Because you're not obstinate and/or an idiot ...

I argue with people who fall into one or both categories on social media and IRL fairly regularly. They think since they had an asymptomatic or very mild COVID case in like summer of 2020 that this means the 'dangerously untested' vaccine will do them no good anyway.

I like to have ammo like this at my rhetorical disposal

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Response to Hugh_Lebowski (Reply #22)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 06:25 PM

27. Yeah, mine was supposedly "mild" lol.

104 fever every night for a week. Chills, headache, feeling of having been beaten with a club. Barely moved for 5 days.

But no, I never had any breathing problems. These assholes that think Covid is like having the flu are fools. Iíve had the flu, and this was in no way comparable.

Add that to your repertoire - ask them to fill you in on how it was for them lol! Happy to add to your arsenal!

I took the vaccine as soon as I was eligible.

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #1)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:09 PM

5. Most likely you'll get worms

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Response to Alpeduez21 (Reply #5)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:12 PM

7. Slather the corpse in ivermectin.

Youíre welcome. Iíll be at LaffRiot in Derpsy, GA tomorrow night. Tip your waiters, and have a great night!

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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:09 PM

4. The vaccines are better. Read that months ago...

... and it still seems to be true.

Edit: I convinced my previously infected brother to get vaccinated after sharing that information with him, weeks ago. His wife died from Covid, by the way, and passed it to him when she became sick last November. He didn't get nearly as sick as her, obviously.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:12 PM

6. That jives with what I've read too. nt.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:55 PM

9. Not quite

What the CDC evaluated months ago was a comparison between natural immunity and the addition of a vaccine on top of that immunity. It showed pretty clearly that there was still some benefit to getting vaccinated. They didn't evaluate natural immunity vs. getting vaccinated if you had never been infected.

This provides lab evidence that getting vaccinated is superior to natural immunity in terms of specific immune response measures... but isn't an evaluation of real-world results.

A fairly large study from Israel was recently in the news showing the opposite (that the natural immunity was better and lasted longer)... but the question is far from reaching a final answer.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #9)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:11 PM

11. I didn't send him a CDC study, but this instead.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article252185473.html

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v2.full.pdf

I also reminded him that his infection had been very mild, with studies indicating that more severe infections had offered better protection from a reinfection.

I also told him that his first dose would likely elicit stronger side-effects for him, since he'd been infected previously, and that's indeed what happened to him. His second dose didn't make him feel nearly as ill, unlike most two-dose vaccinated people who were never infected.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 05:55 PM

24. Do you have a link for that? Someone downthread is claiming the opposite and is

providing a link to an Israeli study.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #24)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 06:01 PM

25. I provided a couple links, upthread as another reply.

But here's one of them again, from April:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v2.full.pdf

It was not peer-reviewed, I just noticed, like the study from Israel.

I'll mostly trust the latest from the CDC. And it doesn't really matter too much which is "better" anyway, since immunity is good for everybody in the long run. And it's established that getting vaccinated, despite being previously infected, confers even a better immune response. So getting vaccinated is still a smart choice, either way.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #25)

Sat Sep 11, 2021, 12:21 PM

31. Thank you. I see that now. n/t

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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:14 PM

8. I wouldn't bet the future on Covid

lots of unknown, unknowns.

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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:56 PM

10. A recent Israeli study of actual patients concluded

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Response to Tomconroy (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:16 PM

12. And here it's fact-checked.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/

The "27 times" is especially meaningless given that Israel had so few infected people and were the world leaders in people getting vaccinated right away. There was far more vaccinated than previously infected there.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #12)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:19 PM

13. What they fact checked was an instagram post

About the study. We have a lot to learn about natural immunity, but I'm hoping it works. Obviously that is all a bunch of people are going to get.

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Response to Tomconroy (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:25 PM

15. I just noticed that your article mentioned...

... the study compared an equal number of vaccinated and previously infected, so my previous point about more vaccinated Israelis than previously infected is moot.

I agree that it's best for the previously infected, and everyone else, if they get some good immunity from it.

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Response to Buckeye_Democrat (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:27 PM

16. And they should get the jab too, but they won't.

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Response to Tomconroy (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:45 PM

18. Absolutely.

It's a probability game, and they should try to minimize their odds of another infection as much as possible.

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Response to Tomconroy (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:43 PM

17. These people address that in a Facebook post.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=397795295182457&id=105606064401383&m_entstream_source=timeline

Basically while that one study found those results, multiple other studies back the authors' claims.

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Response to ColinC (Reply #17)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 05:00 PM

21. At least in the original facebook post it does conclude that previous infection does provide good im

How good is I guess open to debate as is the question of whether asymptomatic infection provides immunity.

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Response to Tomconroy (Reply #21)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 06:06 PM

26. Absolutely.

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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:51 PM

20. Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19

The research was funded in part by NIHís National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and National Cancer Institute (NCI). Results were published on January 6, 2021, in Science.

The researchers found durable immune responses in the majority of people studied. Antibodies against the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, which the virus uses to get inside cells, were found in 98% of participants one month after symptom onset. As seen in previous studies, the number of antibodies ranged widely between individuals. But, promisingly, their levels remained fairly stable over time, declining only modestly at 6 to 8 months after infection.

Virus-specific B cells increased over time. People had more memory B cells six months after symptom onset than at one month afterwards. Although the number of these cells appeared to reach a plateau after a few months, levels didnít decline over the period studied. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 05:50 PM

23. If, and it's a big if, there is something to asymptomatic

People acquiring some real immunity we may be able to put this behind us sooner rather than later

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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 06:25 PM

28. "The risk for previously infected patients with one dose of the vaccine was lowest of all."

Sure, it stands to reason that a vaccine targeted directly at the spike protein might yield a less broad range immunity than natural infection. Trust the CDC, though. They still say get vaccinated. They read studies too.

We don't ask cops, "Ok, you guys, there's a bank robbery in progress, which weapon do you all want to use, a shotgun, a pistol, a rifle, or teargas?" It's all the above. They all work.

The problem with saying one thing is somehow better than the other is that it can imply (to an unfortunately large number of people, I would guess) that you should somehow choose between one and the other. Worse, you should choose one over the other because one is "the Republican choice" and one is the "Democratic choice." Duh...no...ridiculous, imo. Use them all together. Get a vaccine. Get COVID maybe (if you're unlucky enough to get COVID at least you won't die, and there's likely a lower likelihood you'll spread it from my current understanding). If you are really unlucky and end up in the hospital, get steroids, monoclonal antibodies, and antivirals.

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Response to gulliver (Reply #28)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 06:30 PM

29. Definitely not worth getting a potentially deadly disease over a safe vaccine

Regardless of how much immunity it createz.

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Response to ColinC (Original post)

Fri Sep 10, 2021, 06:39 PM

30. Natural is more effective than vaccinated

Unvaxxed < Vaccinated < Natural < Natural + Vaccinated.

The rate of breakthrough infections is far higher than reinfections. Still a good idea to get vaccinated even if you've been infected.

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