The Confederate flag needs to be outlawed in this country

[FakeNoose]

OK guys, you've had 150 years of fun, but now it's over. There should be no more Confederate flags in this country. None on display, none to be bought or sold. None to be produced by printers or textile manufacturers, none to be imported from China or anywhere else.

We're DONE with this! The Confederacy means nothing any more, and even when it existed it didn't mean much. When Nazi Germany was defeated, the first thing the Allies did was to make it illegal to display or wear the swastika or any Nazi regalia. We are long overdue for banning the Confederate flag, especially when it signifies "white power" and "white supremacy" to TOO MANY Americans.

We start with civic fines, and then it escalates to confiscating banned property, and then it escalates again to throwing people in jail for multiple offenses. Does anyone disagree with this?

The Confederacy was over in 1865 - they LOST! Why are people still flying Confederate flags? Why are people (other than historic re-enactors) wearing Confederate military regalia? This all should have ended over 100 years ago.

I hate the fact that Chump and the ChumpHumping Repukes are playing into this whole Confederate cosplay thing like it actually means something. It means nothing, except that it's a direct slap in the face to Democrats who support the USA.

[Ocelot II]

1. We don't outlaw symbolic speech, even offensive speech.

If one symbol is outlawed, others can be too.

[dclarston13]

4. That may be but the losers flag should not be allowed to fly.

The south tried to take over the United States and their flag is THE symbol of that. How is it any different than a swastika?

[tblue37]

5. The swastika is not outlawed here, either.

[madaboutharry]

6. Nazi symbols are not illegal or banned.

Though they are in Germany, where the 1st Amendment does not apply.

[Ocelot II]

10. Swastikas are also legal.

[roamer65]

16. ...

[canetoad]

50. What's your personal

Feeling about that?

[Ocelot II]

62. My personal feelings don't matter.

The law says symbolic speech is protected, and the slope becomes slippery when we start trying to prohibit it, however offensive it might be.

[dclarston13]

51. Not in Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_legality_of_Nazi_flags
The swastika itself predates Nazis, so its legal definition is complicated, but flags of the third reich are illegal in Gemany. The rebel flag is a flag of the confederacy, they attacked us and the lost. There Flag should not be raised, flown, or displayed in any manner in this country. "That is my opinion". Not fact. War has consequences.
I think one of the reasons we still have all the issues with the south will rise again shit, is because we did not do enough to meld the 2 cultures, AND we allowed them use their flag to promote their culture and message.

[Ocelot II]

60. This isn't Germany.

[Devil Child]

2. No. n/t

[madaboutharry]

3. The Constitution says otherwise.

Banning symbols isn’t a road our fragile democracy can afford to go down.

[roamer65]

7. Post-war Germany has done just fine with its Nazi bans.

It is now an integral part of a united Europe.

I see no problem with banning similar symbols of fascism here in the US.

The Confederate flag is a symbol of racism and genocide.

[Ocelot II]

11. Germany doesn't have a First Amendment and a long line of court decisions

holding these things to be protected speech.

[roamer65]

19. It won't be banned here, in reality.

One positive is that I know I can hate them right off the bat, just like Dump lovers.

[cadoman]

48. that's what stacking the court is for

If the right judges in play they will interpret things the right way. Just add till we have enough.

Germany and other countries have prospered under their hate speech bans. It sounds dangerous but they've shown a clear ability to draw a line while preserving the controversial free speech that is necessary for society to evolve.

The last refuge of fascism in our country is hate speech and disinformation. It will only be ended through a hate and disinformation speech ban.

[ripcord]

67. This post hurts my heart

The interpretation you want overturned is one that many of us marched and fought for decades ago, it is sad to have that effort dismissed and demeaned by people who think their individual level of butthurt should dictate our First Amendment rights. There is no reason for this to be changed, what we are seeing here is closed minded people who think that free speech should be subjective to their personal whims.

[Devil Child]

14. That is great for them, German solutions for unique German problems.

I see no need to criminalize possession of a piece of cloth in this country.

More liberty not less is my preference.

[treestar]

71. I see a huge problem - the First Amendment

Our solution is more speech. They put up the Nazi flag, and you condemn them for it in the strongest terms, and they can't stop that either. And they'll probably lose their job, given the culture.

The Confederate flag is tougher, since it's been ignored up till now. But it will become the stuff of pariahs in time.

[Hoyt]

8. Probably not. But that doesn't mean we can't treat flaggers with derision.

[ck4829]

9. We can't, but we should ask why people don't also display the ISIS flag

[uponit7771]

12. What's shockin is some troops displayed the treason flag for years ... WTF ?!

[Haggard Celine]

13. I think people should.be able to fly whatever flag they like,

or none at all, of course. People have the right to be offended, of course, but that doesn't mean they have the right to abolish that which offends them. It isn't a good enough reason to ban something because it hurts some people's feelings

[Red Mountain]

15. Stickers

millions of 'em.

Isis = stars and bars


or whatever thing everybody hates today.

latest awful boy band = stars and bars

rip currents = stars and bars

covid = stars and bars




repeat until the 'cause' is so confused and mutilated it ceases to have any meaning.

[UnderThisLaw]

17. Why?

I just read on this board that Nathan Bedford Forrest did more for African Americans than Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, William Lloyd Garrison, Jefferson Long and John Brown combined.

[KentuckyWoman]

18. No.

Just. No.

[Mr.Bill]

20. Actually I prefer it

when losers identify themselves. Loved the red hats.

[Buzz cook]

21. Burn that flag.

Every protest against anything should have a confederate flag burning.

It is symbolic of everything wrong with the nation. Well, use that symbolism by showing it the lack of respect it deserves

[TheRealNorth]

34. I was thinking more along the line of wiping one's ass with the stars and bars

Last edited Sat Sep 18, 2021, 02:59 AM - Edit history (1)

Burning it almost seems too dignified.

[Buzz cook]

68. In public?

A ceremonial ass wiping might be too graphic for a family friendly protest.

[marble falls]

22. It absolutely should never be seen. But banning it is too far. First Amendment comes to mind.

[NH Ethylene]

23. No.

It's protected under free speech and rightfully so. Never ask for something to be regulated to your opposition that you wouldn't want to have imposed on you.

[FakeNoose]

25. It's a treasonous symbol that has morphed into something else

... that is even more offensive. That was the point my friend, nothing more.

It's not about my feelings or anyone else's.

[NH Ethylene]

29. I guess I was unclear in my wording.

I meant that if we wanted to do things like ban an offensive flag, then we would wind up on the receiving end. Perhaps the right-wingers would like to ban the LTGB rainbow flag, as an example.

Cheers!

[Fiendish Thingy]

24. Sorry to hear about your opposition to the constitution. Nt

[sarisataka]

26. No.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

27. I agree. It represents treason, pure and simple.

I've never understood the deification of Robert E. Lee, either. The bullshit that he honored his state over is country is just that, bullshit. He was a traitor. Plus, his dedication to slave ownership is overlooked.

[BlueTsunami2018]

28. Nah, but it should be treated the same as a Nazi flag.

We can’t be banning flags.

[Goodheart]

30. No.

[unblock]

31. What needs to change is the social tolerance of this crap

Nazi and confederate symbols should be socially seen as entirely unacceptable.

The government shouldn't simply ban them, but people who proudly display symbols of hate and violence should get fired and shunned and treated as the dangerous, lunatic fringe that they are.

The media should not give them airtime or even implicit support. The media should treat any politician's support for those groups as a major scandal, amounting to political suicide. Like donnie's support for the Charlottesville bigots. The media should have covered that as a political disaster, not a short term controversy.

[FakeNoose]

32. I totally agree, but it isn't happening

Crazy people are breaking windows and doors down, entering the U.S. Capitol, and using their Confederate flagpoles to attack the police with. Some of those poles had fixed bayonets on them. The flag isn't an abstract symbol when they use it as a weapon.

[ymetca]

33. No outlaw...

...but just for kicks, try flying a penis flag on your front lawn and see how that goes.

Maybe your personal religion is to worship "The Holy Phallus", and you want to proudly convey such belief to your neighbors, but nope, you can't fly that one!

The reasoning behind such censorship is absurdly "lengthy". Pun intended!

[gladium et scutum]

35. Something you need to understand about the United States and the freedom.

Symbols are just that, symbols. They do not represent reality. The Stars and Bars, the Swastika, the Sickle and Hammer, are offensive to many of us. So what, they can fly in this country just as easily as any other flag you may choose to fly. Freedom is sometimes kinda messy in that respect. But we must always support the concept of Freedom even if you fine it distasteful

[Irish_Dem]

36. It has become the American Nazi flag.

[colsohlibgal]

37. Indeed

Free Speech is protected...up to a point. You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater if there is no fire.

I think this falls into this category. The Confederate Flag represented and represents treason and blatant racism.

We are learning more and more about how close we came to a treasonous coup based on what that flag signifies.

[treestar]

75. It doesn't cause violence

We ignore it, we condemn what it stood for, but so far none of us has seen it as inciting violence.

[Ka-Dinh Oy]

38. No

Then in retaliation the gay pride flag would be outlawed and so on and so on.

My biggest concern is having flags that say fuck "insert name" in residential neighborhoods that usually tend to have children. It is easy to express your dislike or hate without using foul language.

I know that falls in the same category of outlawing other flags or symbols but those flags bother me the most.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

39. I agree but that pesky First Amendment protects even some symbols of hate speech

The best defense to bad speech is more good speech

Link to tweet

[Ocelot II]

63. And it helps us identify the idiots and a-holes among us.

[Polybius]

40. Oh hell no

I'm black and can't stand the meaning behind that flag, but would never vote for anyone who wanted to ban it.

[Progressive Jones]

41. I say it would be better to shame the living crap out of those who stand by that rag. nt

[onenote]

42. Nope.

[StarfishSaver]

43. The point of the First Amendment is to protect unpopular speech

Speech that offends no one really doesn't need protection.

The flag is not the problem - it's a piece of cloth. The problem is the message behind it. We don't ban expressions of speech because we don't like the message. Just as we don't penalize anyone for saying 'The South will rise again!" we don't penalize anyone who waves a flag that conveys the same message.

[FakeNoose]

54. I don't care about the South rising again

If that's all it is, then fine for them.

My problem is that the Confederate flag has morphed into a symbol for white power and white supremacy which the Repukes love to throw in America's face. On January 6th those Confederate and Chump flagpoles were used as weapons against Capitol Police. The right to "free speech" has been abused for way too long by these people.

[StarfishSaver]

57. That's still free speech

And it's protected by the Constitution.

Using flagpoles as a weapon is a different thing - it has nothing to do with the flag or the message.

[jcmaine72]

44. This country has needed comprehensive Hate Speech laws for years.

We're the only Western nation without such laws. It's embarrassing. Hate symbols like the Confederate flag are inciteful, and do little more than perpetuate hate, bigotry and violence. Therefore, it shouldn't be protected by any reasonable interpretation of the 1A. Displaying such symbols should be considered an act of violence and treated as a hate crime, but whatever....

Freedumb

[Ex Lurker]

46. That's great as long as you're the one deciding what's inciteful and what's not

There are lots of states that would outlaw BLM banners and gay pride flags if they could. That sounds absurd to you but it's perfectly reasonable to them. The only way to prevent restrictions on symbols we approve of is to allow symbols we don't approve of.

[jcmaine72]

49. This old hat again?

The Confederate flag has a century-plus-long history of being a symbol of white supremacy, anti-African-American hatred and treason. Every racist and white supremacists knows its symbolic importance, which is why this flag above all others is flown highest and proudest at virtually all white supremacists rallies.

Can it be objectively proven that BLM a hate group? Is their history one of race-based slavery and systemic oppression? If any red state politician thinks he/she can prove that and seeks to ban their political symbols then let them try....and then be promptly sued.

If, however, there were federal laws prohibiting flying an historically, objectively proven symbol of hate, racial violence, slavery and treason, who but the most ardent of racists would really object....and who cares about them? They should have no more place in our society than Neo-Nazis do in Germany.

[treestar]

72. Until they get the Supreme Court

Every racist and white supremacist is free to interpret it differently than you do, and they will. And now they have 6 on the Supreme court. You're too certain that you are right and the majority will always agree with you. There are people who would ban the BLM or LBGT flags. We hear from them every day.

[FakeNoose]

55. I'm going to agree with you on that

I don't ever want to do away with our First Amendment rights. However my point about the Confederate flag and your point about hate speech restrictions sort of intersect. The Confederate flag - the way it's being used by the Repuke Insurrectionists - it has become their code for white power and white supremacy.

Just like they stole the "OK" hand signal and turned it into white power, they've done the same with the Confederate flag.

[Raine]

45. NO absolutely NOT. nt

[Skittles]

47. nah

them getting shamed into getting rid of it is a better way to go about it

[Hortensis]

52. I'm with no. It cannot be flown at by far most places, and that's enough.

As for getting upset about the enthusiasm of some for Civil War reenactments, should you bother? Could you stop seeing it only as a slap in the face of Democrats if you tried? That's what I've suggested when someone's gotten all upset about seeing "foreign" clothes or hearing a foreign accent -- it really happens, this is rural Georgia! It's such unnecessary distress and the "offfence" is usually not even close to really being their business.

[FakeNoose]

56. I'm not sure where you're getting this

I'm not against historic re-enactments. I'm fine with foreign accents. In fact some of my best friends are foreign-born, but that's totally beside the point.

I'm against symbols of white power and white supremacy, and I'm saying the January 6th Insurrectionists have turned the Confederate flag into that. They used flagpoles as weapons against Capitol police, some even had knives and bayonets fixed on their flagpoles. How much do we need to see, before we can agree that it's no longer free speech, it's hate speech?

[Hortensis]

61. It's impossible to do Civil War reenactments without symbols

some now associate solely with hateful racism and white supremacy. But reenactors associate them with a lot more, or they'd be off doing slave-beating or lynching reenactments with those who like that kind of thing. A lot of them have ancestors who lived and fought in that era and/or live near battlefields and roads armies too. (Lots of all of that down here.) Some travel the country and the world for this hobby, coming from other continents for wars fought on our soil, and vice versa.

Reenactors tend to become experts on the histories of particlar battles, military strategies, weaponry, methods of fighting, clothes, food, struggles, etc. Some attend classes to learn this stuff. And they're fun. Accountants get sight and fire artillery, and even be a general here and there. It gives men opportunities to ride their horses in cavalry charges, and how often would those come along?

As for the "furriner" problem of a couple of our GA neighbors, you mistake. I'm assuming you are not among our very insular GA neighbors. They're caught up in the current cultural stresses of the environment in which they were raised, and they tend to REACT to people from other countries not as people but as threatening invaders and proof of decades of losing their own battles against change -- until that passes and their better natures get a chance to kick in.

The last time my husband had to soothe a fishing buddy was at a dental office. He'd taken him because he'd need a drive home, and the guy's reaction to a gentleman from India was to pivot and run into my husband. Reaction was to an offfense against the way things should be instead of seeing a man about his age also waiting for fun time. Unfortunately, they didn't get time to chat.

[SYFROYH]

53. Fuck that.

[fescuerescue]

58. Also ban books and websites on the Confederacy.

Should just go ahead and burn them that way is more effective.

Should also raze all the Civil battle ground parks where the Confederates won a battle. (keep the ones where we won of course)

[FakeNoose]

70. They aren't symbols of white power and white supremacy

... as far as I know. Do you know something I don't?

[treestar]

74. I think this is sarcasm

Yes, burn down the antebellum mansions too.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

59. Lol no.

[ripcord]

64. I can remember when democrats fought for free speech

Now anything that bothers us needs to be banned so our sensitive eyes and ears aren't offended, how far we have fallen.

[Zeitghost]

66. It's truly sad and more than a bit frightening to see it coming from the left

It's a slippery slope from hate speech to seditious speech to legitimate political criticism.

After the recent events in Texas, I can't believe so many here can't see what would happen if this door was opened, even just a crack. It would start with anarchist and communist flags and then move on to BLM, LGBT and on down the road.

[FakeNoose]

69. Since when are white power and white supremacy symbols "free speech"?

I would call it hate speech, not free speech.

[treestar]

73. That's what you would call it and I would call it

but Amy C. Barrett and Brett Kavanaugh might not.

[ripcord]

76. Unpopular speech is protected

It isn't up to individuals to decide that certain things they don't like shouldn't be protected, we have decades of of court decisions that have rightly said that things like the swasitika which many consider hate speech are protected.

[pwb]

65. White flags have been used for Surender for

a long time. Oh wait you mean the other one? Isn't it a form of speech now?

[Sympthsical]

77. The guilty have been abusing due process way too much in this country

We should probably get rid of it.

I mean, if we're having a sale on rights today.

[Mr.Bill]

78. It doesn't need to be banned,

it needs to be laughed at. Loudly. Whenever and wherever you see it.

[Rob H.]

79. The answer to speech you disagree with

…is more speech, not less.