We see regular, often harsh criticism of the media for their decisions on what and who to cover

[StarfishSaver]

We see criticism of their editorial choices, whom they choose to cover (how tired are we of having to listen to Trump voters babbling in diners and Republican House Members babbling on talk shows, etc.?), how much coverage we give them, whom they are not covering, etc. With few exceptions, that criticism is accepted with complete agreement and very little, if any pushback by people defending their editorial choices or making excuses for them.

So it's been very surprising and odd that the recent criticism of the media's tendency to provide saturation coverage of young, attractive white women who go missing and/or are murdered while giving virtually no attention to Black and brown women who face the same tragic fate, has been met with such vigorous and sometimes hostile and accusatory defenses that we've seen in the past couple of days.

I think this is the first instance in which I've seen folks circle their wagons around the media against allies who are simply pointing out the obvious - that a media we all recognize as deeply flawed and biased in many different ways sometimes allows racial bias to affect its coverage, just as its other biases do.

Not sure why it's fine to go after the press for their other biases that affect what they cover and how they cover it, but discussing how racial bias impacts their coverage - or even mentioning that one of those biases is racial - triggers such a defensive reaction.

Something to think about.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. WELP.

K&R.

[markie]

2. media bias

is a reflection of the consumer's of media bias... money is the driving force and media puts out what people want to hear/see

that is something to think about...

[unblock]

12. many problems with this argument

first, it's exactly what the market wants. it's what the media *thinks* the market wants. bias can certainly influence that judgment.

to a large part, their guess as to what the market wants is based on experience, but that only means that whatever worked before is presumed to work again, and since our past was markedly bigoted and sexist, such assumptions are perpetuated. i'm not saying the consumer base is dramatically less bigoted and sexist overall than the media thinks it is, just saying that the media's bias is going to make them slow to adjust to and improvements in the public at large.

that's aside from the fact that the media certainly has a big influence on consumer attitudes. the public cares about topics and talks about it in certain frames and with certain terms because the media lays all that out for us. the public wouldn't know or care about this particular missing person if the media didn't tell us it was worth paying attention to for some reason.

same goes for hillary's emails or obama's choice of suit color or whatever.


then there's the fact that media ownership and the ownership of big advertisers are often republicans....

[mcar]

48. Well said

My biggest complaint with media - especially cable news - is that they are on 24/7 and yet every show covers the same 3-4 things, in the same order.

Perhaps it's cheaper that way or they are lazy. Or, as you said, they think they are reporting on what the market wants.

But they should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. There is a lot going on in this country and the world.

[unblock]

52. Most media sources lean heavily on the ap news feed and the White House press corps

That pretty much gives them the topics. So if the ap keeps covering an ongoing story, it becomes hard for any source to ignore it, even if, like the Hillary email crap, it's vastly overblown or misframed (the story was always about the Republican abuse of power to smear Hillary, but the media never covered it that way.)

[mcar]

55. That and the media tends to follow GOP talking points

when they choose their stories to cover.

[unblock]

101. exactly. as well as the frame and the word choices.

again with hillary's email, the entire frame while searching through 100,000 emails was maybe they'll find one magic email that will end her career, instead of focusing on the other 99,999 emails that show she was hard-working, smart, compassionate, a good manager, advanced america's policy interests and kept her department running smoothly. no, skip right over the forest and the trees and focus on the unicorn that may or may not exist.

those who oppose abortion are invariably referred to as "pro-life" even when they couldn't care less about a mother forced to risk death in a problematic childbirth. they're never referred to as "pro-forced-pregnancy" or "anti-choice". and they're often allowed to call those who have or perform abortions "murderers" or "baby-killers".

now consider just about anything having to do with black people. it's nearly always about whether or not they adhered to every damn rule imaginable, whether actual laws or social norms or politeness or proper respect or whatever. "black lives matter"? poor word choice. kneeling? how dare you during the national anthem.

but, um, just trying to call attention to the fact that the government is killing people ***la, la, la i can't hear you all i hear is black people complaining about something and how dare they interrupt my patriotic football game!***

oh and "defund the police" -- same crap, let's all talk about poor word choice and *completely* ignore the entire point.


now we have the debt ceiling fiasco. rarely is it framed that the republicans, for like the hundredth time, are threatening to default already approved and authorized spending. they're allowed to pretend there's some kind of "fiscal responsibility" in their position when in fact all they are doing is threatening to not pay legally obligated debts. being a deadbeat is the opposite of "fiscal responsibility", but the media pathetically lets them pretend the republicans are doing something noble or principled or whatever.


the list goes on and on....

[StarfishSaver]

17. The media's assumptions about what the consumer wants is often colored by their own racial bias

[markie]

56. I have worked in the world of research...

I find it hard to believe that media "assumes" anything... it is big business, and big business works off numbers and data...

....certainly the media enables the consumers' bias

this is not to say there is no racial bias at all, but it is not the overwhelming reason for the direction taken

Look at Fox... Fox news is heavy with attitude that reeks of racial bias (because of their viewers)... but Fox entertainment, not so much

[edhopper]

3. Well said

[live love laugh]

4. Shooting black ppl dismissed as "gang related" shooting white ppl...

outrage …. week long coverage, “this has to stop!”

Both shootings in same places and manner.

Even if a shooting is gang related the victims don’t have to be in gangs.

Blacks living in gang riddled poorer neighborhoods deserve to live like other humans.

Not trying to devalue one life vs. another but to equalize the value of the victims.

[Bettie]

5. Media is geared toward white people

News media tends to tailor their offerings to white men.

So, pretty young white girls in peril are what they believe will sell.

But, television, even news is more of a reactive medium than a proactive one. They will generally lag behind trends in society.

Also, our society generally values thin, conventionally pretty, financially secure white women over, well, pretty much everyone.

And the media deserves criticism for this bias.

I think some people reflexively assume that by mentioning the many other women who go missing and aren't given any airtime, people are saying that this white woman doesn't matter, which isn't true at all.

It would be good to have a similar level of national attention on other cases. That is the point of bringing it up, but a lot of people don't get that.

[StarfishSaver]

13. You're right

But there's more to it. I think we both know what it is.

[Bettie]

26. I figured the racism angle was so obvious

that pretty much everyone would recognize it without being told.

But, I may be wrong on that.

ETA: However, the white privilege on display with the young man and his family is staggering. Does anyone really believe that a young Black man (or any version of not-white) wouldn't have been at least questioned immediately?

[StarfishSaver]

29. Racism is never obvious to some people

In fact, they see any reference to its existence as a personal attack.

[H2O Man]

35. Back in the 1970s,

Rubin used to send me copies of essays he wrote in his Rahway cell. One of my favorites was (is) "The Sophistication of Racism," in which he focused on, among other things, how the media had "evolved" from outright racist reporting, to a more subtle, acceptable-to-the-general-public, form of racist reporting. I do believe that you have helped me select my afternoon reading! It is in a thick notebook filled with those powerful essays!

[StarfishSaver]

43. Holdup, holdup , holdup

The Hurricane sent you stuff?! Can we just stop for a moment and reflect on the awesomeness of that?
...

Ok, back to the point.

Yes, you're right. And that "evolution" clearly has worked - worked so well that even some progressives have been completely fooled by it.

But it is interesting that they are perfectly willing to recognize all kinds of other biases and problems in the media. But God forbid we mention that one of those biases is racial ... time to circle the wagons.

[H2O Man]

49. Yes.

I was good friends with Rubin for 40+ years. I have a massive amount of letters, essays, legal documents, etc from Rubin and the legal team. My children knew him as their uncle. When I was in high school, one of my classes communicated with him on cassette tapes -- the teacher got fired! In college, a philosophy teacher used some of his letters from what we (legal team, supporters) called his "Buddha phase," when I was one of two people he communicated with. Rubin was a fascinating man.

Over the decades, I have witnessed -- as I'm sure you have -- people who feel they are on a hot seat during honest conversations about race. "Not me! Some of my best friends are black!" was rather easy to identify. It can be difficult for some to recognize that they are not the target of every discussion of racism ...... sitting in the Longhouse at Onondaga, when my friends spoke about racist injustices, I was never tempted to jump up and yell, "But not me!" It might have gotten a good laugh if I did, though, as Onondaga humor is as subtle as a razor's cut. But if I said, "Um, let's not talk about this. It's divisive," no one would have laughed.

[malaise]

107. From day one to the current time. the media has perpetuated and continues to

perpetuate institutional racism. There is no running away from this fact.

[malaise]

108. From day one to the current time. the media has perpetuated and continues to

perpetuate institutional racism. There is no running away from this fact.

[SouthBayDem]

117. Might have been true before 2010...

"Media is geared toward white people" hasn't been as true post-2010 as in previous decades - at least when it comes to entertainment for instance superhero movies with PoC leads like "Black Panther" and "Shang Chi" and this year's remake of "The Wonder Years" with a black family. Today's media isn't the same as the time when "Good Times" and "The Jeffersons" were the exception rather than the rule. It now pays to tailor the product to younger people who are more open to cross cultural interests.

TV news, on the other hand, still largely targets the GenX/Boomer generations. That's the sense I get (I'm 30) when I watch "PBS NewsHour" and "60 Minutes" where some of the reporters have been on national TV as far back as the 70s (Judy Woodruff and Lesley Stahl).

[StarfishSaver]

121. The fact that some Black movies and TV shows are popular doesn't change things

Entertainment featuring Black people has always been popular. Things didn't suddenly change since 2010 because The Black Panther was a box office smash and the fact that a black version of the Wonder years is debuting on network TV doesn't mean that racism and racial bias have gone away or even been lessened - any more than electing a Black president and a Black vice president means.America is now "post-racial."

[Voltaire2]

128. Yeah now Shang chi and black panther are

the exceptions. Good point.

[hlthe2b]

6. I have seen nothing but uniform denouncement of the failure for so many Native American deaths

of women (mass murders on and around the reservations), African American missing and dead women and other women of color--most certainly the ongoing mass killing of Mexican women along the US-Mexico border to receive the ongoing reporting and response deserved.

I have seen no one on DU--absolutely NO ONE denying the problem. ABSOLUTELY NOT ONCE.

I have seen the fact that this is an epidemic problem, especially where it interphases with domestic violence of women of all types, races, and regions of the country. Not denying the inequities in which it has been covered. But reminding that it is a problem for and about violence against women.

I have, however, seen a very small handful who, while they express understandable denunciation that this current missing and presumed murdered woman's case has gotten such overwhelming coverage, have done so in a particular way that is derisive of those following the story or who even express the horror that it occurred. ALongside comments that are incredibly dismissive of the victim, her family, her friends--as though the fact she was "pretty, young, and white" meant her outcome was meaningless and should not warrant any attention nor concern whatsoever. In fact, there have been posts that have said just that... that the poster didn't care about another woman missing of that description and denounced the poster for the OP.

This will be my only post to this thread as I do not want to add to the divisiveness that I fear will result. Having worked a number of years very early in my career providing healthcare at Pine Ridge, I am well versed and devastated by the issues among Native women and I see very similar issues with the lack of attention given to violence, murder, and missing black, Hispanic, and other women. My hope is that we will come together to address this issue for ALL women and recognize that all are victims who deserve our care and efforts.

This board can do a lot to educate and even motivate action. That is a good thing. We need to do so in a way to unite towards a common goal.

[StarfishSaver]

9. You haven't?

You seem to have missed them.

Some of the comments in this thread that completely deny the problem you claim has not been denied should help you understand what I'm talking about. https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215875792

[hlthe2b]

14. Not even in that thread. Enough divisiveness --when most (me especially) essentially agree with you

on the wider issue. I prefer to use this as a moment for positive forward movement on an important issue. If you want to discuss how to accomplish that, I would gladly join in that future thread.

[StarfishSaver]

16. How could you possibly not have seen what I'm talking about in that thread?

[hlthe2b]

18. Again, you can call out DUers or you can do something positive. I would help with the latter not

the former.

You say you are or were a "Hill" democratic activist. Use those skills to harness the energy and assistance of the majority of DUers who essentially agree with you. Start a thread to get ideas how to accomplish grabbing the attention of those who need to hear it (and are in a position to effect change in reporting policies, investigation priorities, and education to the issue to the wider populace).

Or just bemoan a handful who don't agree (or haven't yet acknowledged that they essentially agree) with you. That is YOUR choice.

[StarfishSaver]

20. Thank you for your advice on how I should use my skills

I will give it the consideration it merits.

[hlthe2b]

24. Wow. That says it all. Okay. Now I know, I guess. (and so, too do others)

[Hugh_Lebowski]

34. I agree with you ...

I've def. seen people justifying why this case actually deserves attention (or that it's at least understandable), but nothing I'd describe as "such vigorous and sometimes hostile and accusatory defenses" in the context SS is describing.

I think there's a pretty universal understanding here that Missing White Woman Syndrome is a 'real thing'.

[StarfishSaver]

44. You may not have seen it, but perhaps you didn't read all of the posts

If you had, you couldn't have missed it.

[LakeArenal]

30. Well said.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

50. OMG hlthe2b ! Bookmarked. What you have written is likely

To be the most accurate and insightful of anything I've ever read here.

I too have never read, since 2004, anything from a DUer (and supposedly there's tons of them that doesn't always side with justice and empathize with the plight of all who are oppressed.

Not to say there's not a bad apple out there once in awhile? Perhaps we should all make it a personal mission to find the couple bad apples out of 263,720 members?

I don't think it will happen, but totally agree that recommended doable action ideas would be much more welcome than preaching to the choir derisiveness.

[hlthe2b]

112. thank you, Laura...

The response to it was eye-opening, though.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

125. Yes! Yes it was.

[radius777]

126. Your argument sounds somewhat similar to the anti-Kaepernick

folks who kept imploring him to 'bring up real issues' and 'organize for action' instead of 'just kneeling'. An individual should have the right to bring attention to an issue in any way he/she chooses.

[hlthe2b]

129. So you are comparing my sincere atttempt for action to a racist anti-Kaepernick response?

Nice.

BTW, nearly all of DU was united in supporting Kaepernick's taking the knee on behalf of social justice-- as well. if you were here at the time, you would know that. I certainly was and did.

[EffieBlack]

130. I was here then. DU wasn't "united" in support of Kaepernick.

Plenty of people here criticized Kaepernick, many using the same argument you just did - that kneeling was antagonistic, counterproductive and, of course "divisive." He was criticized for inserting politics into sports (the polite version of "shut up and play",) and urged to use other, less divisive means to get his message across.

It is very common for people who raise issues that make some other people uncomfortable to be lectured this way about the "right" way to speak up or protest.

[hlthe2b]

132. I said the majority were and they were.

[EffieBlack]

133. You said "nearly all"

That wasn't the case.

And my point stands.

People don't need to be given instructions about how to raise or work on issues of concern to them. Your doing it to Starfish is exactly the kind of thing people did to Kaepernick, many of them doing it here on this board. It's nothing new around here.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

135. Best false equivalency of the day. Comparing posts

that harangue DUers with constant preaching to the choir to a silent kneel. Good one!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

136. Absolutely! Don't fall for revisionist history. Most of the

time it's accusing many.. but in reality that probably means none.

[boston bean]

7. Because going after the press for reporting on Gabby Petito helps no one.

In fact it hurts the cause to enlighten people of domestic violence.

What would be more beneficial would be to criticize them for not reporting on a similar story of a woman of color.

There are other problems with their reporting which is linked to sexism in who they report on.

But still it is an important story. I am grateful for the saturation even if flawed.

[StarfishSaver]

10. The comments I'm talking about are those that push back on those of us who do what you suggest

You should be familiar with them ...

[boston bean]

11. How should I be familiar with them?

[StarfishSaver]

15. I assumed you read the posts in the thread you so actively participated in

[boston bean]

51. Umm which one. My own OP?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

69. It's about you now BB! Lol. You don't read good:)

[Laura PourMeADrink]

139. So, it's ALL basically about imaginary " pushback" from

A forum of liberals? Interesting

[unblock]

8. i've avoided this story entirely, so pretty much the *only* part of this i've seen has been

exactly what you are asking for, tweets and quotes about how it's always a young white woman, and usually blonde.

totally agreed that it's yet another blatant bias in the media.


the bias aside, i just can't get motivated to particularly care about a single instance of a missing person. i mean, i care, but why should i care about that particular missing person any more than the thousands of others. oh, right, because she's young and white and female and probably from a somewhat-to-very affluent family. so, back to the bias problem.

our media sucks in many respects, and even those of us who realize it's a problem usually fail to appreciate how deeply flaws the media is.

[womanofthehills]

123. There has never been a case of an abused woman with so much video

I’m glad the news is covering this story big time because the social media kids are all into it and it might save some women’s lives. Young women need to see this story.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

138. Yes. Actually any woman?

[H2O Man]

19. Recommended.

Definitely an important OP about an important topic. I posted something related this morning.

[StarfishSaver]

21. Thank you.

[H2O Man]

39. I note that there are

a number of responses that provide solid evidence in support of your OP. They include from some people that I respect as intelligent, thoughtful individuals, providing documentation of how deeply rooted the problem is.

[StarfishSaver]

41. You noticed that, too?

This thread has proven to be very interesting. And you're right, it is deeply ingrained.

[Caliman73]

89. It is, unfortunately, deeply engrained, to the point that it eludes us.

As you said up thread, the idea that, "you aren't talking about me.." is a common reaction, shows the depth of the issue. When people discuss the topic of race, I will often say, "I am racist", mostly as a provocative statement, but also to say, while I am not a text book racist, I was brought up in a family, community, and society that instills in both subtle and overt ways, attitudes and biases about race, gender, sexual orientation, etc... I have heard the "n word" thrown out by family members, sexist statements about women, gay jokes, etc... It is difficult not to be touched by those ubiquitous attitudes and you have to actively seek out experiences to counter those narratives and get to know Black people, LGBTQ people, women, etc... as human beings. You have to actively fight the teaching. When you say, or think, "but I am not racist", to me, it is like closing yourself off from that experience, trying to hide it away. I prefer to say, "Yeah, I have racial, gender, and other biases. I know the stereotypes, but I am working real hard, every day to make sure they do not get in the way of me treating people with dignity and respect".

[H2O Man]

91. Extremely well said!

I hope that you make this into an OP, because you have the ability to communicate your message in such a clear, calm manner. I think it is exactly the type of message that benefits the members of this forum.

[StarfishSaver]

113. Exactly

We all have biases and prejudices. We can't help it - it's part of being human and being a product of the society we live in.

The He is not to pretend we don't have prejudices, but to be aware of them and work toward overcoming them.

When people say "I don't have a racist bone in my body" (then you're not human) or "I don't see color" (You don't? How is that possible?) or "I don't care if people are black, white,red, blue, purple" (when they break out the purple people, we know what time it is), that's usually a sign of someone who is unable or unwilling to be honest about their own view of the world.

[leftstreet]

22. LOL "vigorous and sometimes hostile and accusatory defenses"

Nonsense

I've seen nothing but the opposite here. Thread after thread criticizing the media for its coverage of the missing woman's case, where almost all DUers agree, but those who follow the case are put on the defensive to explain and apologize for the phenomenon.

[StarfishSaver]

27. You should stop laughing and actually read the threads you're commenting on

Because you apparently either didn't read them or completely missed what was in them.

[leftstreet]

28. Post them n/t

[StarfishSaver]

31. I linked to one of the threads above

Click on it.

[leftstreet]

32. That's it? That's all you have? I don't see your evidence n/t

[StarfishSaver]

36. LOL

Anyone who actually read the posts in the thread can see exactly what I'm talking about. You either didn't read the posts or you are being disingenuous for some purpose known only to you.

[leftstreet]

38. You should stop laughing and...

LOL You need to let this one go and admit it backfired

[StarfishSaver]

45. The fact that you disagree with me isn't anything close to a "backfire"

It's a clear sign that my aim was dead on.

[leftstreet]

46. It's not clear what you were "aiming" for

but looks like it failed all the same

[BannonsLiver]

23. The media gives people what they want.

It’s not a media problem. It’s a rotten people problem. The end.

[StarfishSaver]

25. Media gives people what the media think people want

And often what they think people want is skewed by their own biases.

[BannonsLiver]

33. LULZ

I guess some folks have never heard of analytics.

[StarfishSaver]

40. You think the media has done analytics testing whether its audiences want to see coverage of

missing Black and brown women vs. missing white women and, based on the results have consciously decided not to cover stories about Black and brown women - and you're arguing that this is proof that the media are completely free of racial bias?

I could respond with "LULZ" but not being 12 years old, I'll just shake my head and move on because you've proven my point.

[AZLD4Candidate]

66. No. Working in media, those in charge give people what they think will sell

They couldn't care less if people want it. With slick marketing and over-saturation techniques, they will force people to want it.

[StarfishSaver]

67. Exactly

And just as other biases come into play when making those decisions, racial bias is also a factor.

I don't understand why some people are so resistant to that simple fact, as if talking about it is a personal attack on them - or is "divisive" in ways that other criticisms aren't.

[Hortensis]

37. I noticed the previoius OPs criticizing news media's saturation coverage because

this poor dead white girl was white. But I didn't read the responses. I'm not exactly blind to the racial inequality aspects, and I'm very critical of news media. But I see this girls's death first and last through the lens of her and her own tragic death, while the unfairness of saturation coverage was completely evident, no new insights to gain about that. Also because I'm repelled by using serious issues, like racial injustice, as vehicles to express personal resentments that often have little to do with injustice to others.

I've read this OP, Starfish Saver, but I'm not going to read the responses to it either. You're discussing this media event through a racial injustice lens and are responding to what you see as defenses of media coverage. Since I skipped all that, I don't know if I agree with your accusations in this post, or how much. But I was thinking just the other day that discussion of racial injustice had dried up for a while. So there has been a vacuum of discussion about racial issues, and who better to fill it?

[Lulu KC]

42. Yes!

YES! Front page, days on end. I have not seen this coming up to jump in and keep wondering. I'll check out Twitter.

I got sucked into the Gabby Petito story last night after just seeing headlines all week. There were so many moments in the coverage (I think it was on CNN webpage) where I thought, "And if she--and her boyfriend--were Black?" They were having a physical fight and they both begged for no arrests from the police, and the police said, "OK, just calm down. No arrests, kids." ETC!

[mcar]

47. Someone in the media

don't recall who, said it best (paraphrasing): "Should we cover the Gabby Petito disappearance? Yes. But we also should be covering the disappearance/possible murders of all the young Black and indigenous women."

[ismnotwasm]

53. Well I'm fucking pissed

There is an absolute crisis of missing indigenous women; for that matter I can point to a current story where a mother is trying to find her black son. An attractive young man, as apparently from what I read here, attractiveness must be a thing.

This misdirected and focused attention we see is not only NOT OK, it leaves horrific situations unaddressed, with little to no media.

Racial bias in the colonized world we fucking live in, and I dare anyone to try and “prove” otherwise.

[mcar]

57. I love how people are saying "well, she's a social media influencer"

She had a YouTube channel that didn't have many viewers (it does now). I couldn't begin to guess how many young, attractive people of all cultures post on YouTube and TikTok.

[StarfishSaver]

58. "I dare anyone to try and 'prove' otherwise"

No need to dare anyone - plenty of folk are all to eager to try it with no prompting.

Like those who insist the lack of coverage of missing and murdered Black and brown women is not the result of any racial bias but because Black and brown women comprise a minority of the national population - as if percentage of overall population determines how much coverage minorities get in particular stories.

You know, the way the vast majority of stories about basketball only feature white players and don't ever cover any Black players because Black people are a minority of the U.S. population.

[ismnotwasm]

72. This is not an accessible article, although the book is available from 2007

Just to point out (as I’m sure you know) that this not new, and is an ongoing and continual problem. I am a feminist but white feminism can run this narrative as well, which is why I carefully vet who I read or listen to for bias. What happened to Gabby was heinous and deserving of attention, but this level of tongue hanging “episode of the kardashians” kind of attention is disgusting

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20461232

[StarfishSaver]

74. "When it comes to body counts, which bodies 'count'"

As we well know, the Black body has always counted less than white bodies in this country. And it is so ingrained and so much a part of our culture that not only do some people not see it, they deeply resent having it brought to their attention.

[ismnotwasm]

78. To this day. It is resented and we get our goddamn feelings hurt

Anything that challenges the view of “oh we do so much, we can only do so much” or “oh we’ve done enough” or “there is only one race, the human race” —such agonizing over rejection, still expecting Indigenous or black peoples to see us and hear us, because we don’t want to make more effort to see and hear very harsh truths.

[Cobalt Violet]

68. +1000

Some of these colonizers are even demanding we provide easy-to google info and serve it to them on a silver platter with a silver spoon.

[ismnotwasm]

75. Ugh.

The situation at the oil camps is particularly horrific because it gets no attention at all. Do you follow Modern_Warrior on social media? He is so good. He a no holds barred young activist with a fairly large platform

[Cobalt Violet]

80. yes, I follow him.

Yeah, the man camps are horrible. Genocide is what it is.

[Kaleva]

54. MSM is a for profit business and they'll cover what attracts viewers and thus increase profits.

Biases and excessive coverage of certain events in lieu of others is to be expected.

We'll see that affect what is discussed here at DU in GD. A kind of ripple effect.

[NewHendoLib]

60. this.

[StarfishSaver]

62. Do we have any evidence that missing white women attract viewers but missing Black women don't?

Even if that's true, at some point, the media has to take responsibility for shaping its coverage to suit racists. Claiming "WE aren't racist but our audience is, so we must give them what they want" is not a defense .

[Laura PourMeADrink]

77. Hmmm. Good luck getting NPR to admit catering to racists

Since they did a story on this. So did liberal leaning media outlets across the country.

[Kaleva]

79. If racism sells, even subdued racism, they'll use it.

The proof is by observing what they cover.

I'm not offering my opinion as a defense of MSM but just expressing my opinion as to why they provide more coverage of certain events or people then they do others. An informed citizenry is not the priority of MSM but satisfying the owner(s), shareholders and investors is.

Your comment:

"Do we have any evidence that missing white women attract viewers but missing Black women don't?"

The recent OP about the black mother trying to find out who killed her daughter that sank like a rock is evidence of this. It was posted yesterday and is already on page 4.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215876719

[StarfishSaver]

81. I don't think that's conclusive evidence, but it certainly is an interesting factoid

[Kaleva]

82. I'm expressing an opinion and I should have made that clear. It's just an opinion.

[StarfishSaver]

83. I understood what you meant

And your point was well-taken.

[AZLD4Candidate]

59. Pretty white women get interest. Minorities. . .meh

It's that institutionalized racism we hear so much about that the RW ignores as "fantasy."

[StarfishSaver]

63. Not just the RW that's ignoring it

Look around.

[AZLD4Candidate]

65. True. I haven't responded or paid attention to it once. I consider it the height of

voyeurism.

[Jon King]

61. Why couldn't the media tie in other cases to this one?

Makes no sense why CNN would not hook this case into 3-4-5 other cases of various missing people. The audience tunes in to see the latest here, during that story they also pick a few other cases out and ask the public for help in finding the person.

They get their ratings while also possibly solving another case.

[StarfishSaver]

64. Good question

Which highlights the falsity of the claim that the media's saturation coverage of this case has anything to do with a desire to draw attention to domestic violence.

[senseandsensibility]

70. You certainly have a point, although

once many years ago I criticized something Keith Olbermann said on DU and you would have thought the sky had fallen. Lol. But may I make a second point? Why the almost complete blackout on violence against women in general and how often they are murdered by their significant other? Superficial coverage like this does nothing to help any of the victims, regardless of race.

[StarfishSaver]

71. You are right

The media doesn't care about domestic violence. They care about domestic violence they can sensationalize. And they believe that pretty white victims are better fodder for that sensationalism.

[senseandsensibility]

73. Exactly.

Sadly, that is it in a nutshell.

[StarfishSaver]

76. But no racial bias in that determination at all

It's just ratings or there are lots more white women in America, or something.

[Mr. Sparkle]

84. I think its fair to say the missing person story blew up on twitter before the media covered it.

I wouldn't hang my coat on this story, to make that point.

[RestoRay]

85. This strident attitude of yours isn't going to convince people that you're right.

I posted an opinion, that since there are 76,000,000 more white women than black women in America(which is proven by the Census) most of the stories are going to be about white women. You say that this huge difference is irrelevant to media coverage and asked if I knew the number of victims for each race. I told you that I tried to find a source that showed the number of victims by race and could not find one, but I think that it would be similar to their population demographics. Since you were so convinced that my opinion was wrong, I asked if you could provide a source to the statistics. You kept insisting that the onus was on me to provide a source that I told you I couldn’t find. You then acted like you somehow won and now you’re started a fresh OP while still not backing up anything. And you’re accusing others of having a defensive reaction

To me, the amount of coverage is easily explained by the numbers. White women outnumber black women 5-to-1. 6.7% of the population just isn’t going to generate a lot of stories. I could be wrong about this, though and maybe if you tried to engage meaningfully you would’ve changed my opinion. But it seems to me that’s not your MO.

[leftstreet]

86. This "all missing women matter" seems kinda RW to me

Much like when Black Lives Matter is the subject - it gets hijacked by rightwingers with "but ALL lives matter"

ugh

The subject was a missing white female.

DUer's were (predictably) scolded for their interest in the case and/or their inability to control the vast media narrative.

It's weird

[StarfishSaver]

90. Except it's not the same

Saying "Black and Brown Women Matter" is the equivalent of saying "Back Lives Matter" in direct response to the consistent messages that we don't - Just as Black Lives Matter" was a direct response to consistent messages that they don't

But now that you mention it, the insistence that reminding people that "Black and Brown Women Matter" somehow means we're saying white women DON'T matter is quite similar to responding to "Black Lives Matter" with with cries of "ALL Lives Matter!"

[leftstreet]

97. That makes zero sense

But you have more special political skills than I do, so I guess it's just far too clever for me to understand

[StarfishSaver]

98. It makes perfect sense

So yes, maybe your assessment of why you don't understand it is correct.

[leftstreet]

99. Whatever you say n/t

[ismnotwasm]

87. You know

I find it very interesting that you find any part of this discussion amusing. Not surprising, just interesting.

[ismnotwasm]

96. I can make an argument

You really think population statistics are the entire story? That, in any discussion the sheer numbers of missing women, missing Brown and Black women, or Asian OR White women for that matter is in any way funny?

What is the white women population against all others? Around 60% and rapidly dropping, projected to be around 44% in 2060.

Anyway, here is just one of many articles

Left unaddressed, Missing White Woman Syndrome is a danger to all living minority people worldwide, as the possibility of being the victim of abduction or chance of disappearing exists no matter what gender or race a person is.5 Comedian Jon Stewart brought awareness to this issue in one of his routines by declaring that “TV: y (minutes of media coverage) = Family Income x (Abductee Cuteness ÷ Skin Color) + Length of Abduction x Media Savvy of Grieving Parents” is the official formula for the indication of how much media airtime a missing child might receive.6
Current laws and policies are evidently either mimicking or causing the lack of coverage of Black missing persons cases in main- stream media, and are thus failing at protecting missing Black girls and women.7 In order to both ensure that these suspect classes are equally protected, and remedy the lack of news coverage of Black girls and women, state legislatures must enact specific targeted laws and policies that allocate resources to the search and recovery of miss- ing Black girls and women and promote the equal protection of all missing persons.

This Note focuses on the racial disparity that is present in the investigation and allocation of resources in missing persons cases. This Note argues that the most beneficial remedy for the significant disparity that majorly effects missing Black girls8 requires the cre- ation of legislation at the state and local level. The legislation must be carefully and specifically written to create resources to aid in the search and recovery of missing girls and women of color. This Note will specifically discuss the underrepresentation of missing Black girls in American news media and discuss how the phenomenon of ‘Missing White Woman Syndrome’ has pervaded news media and negatively impacted the outcomes of missing Black girls’ and women’s cases. This Note analyzes existing law and legislation at the state and federal level and suggests frameworks that state legislatures should use in the future to address this issue.

https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1508&context=wmjowl

[StarfishSaver]

93. You've been here all of 26 hours

And you're already tone policing DU members. Interesting.

But to your point, let me explain it again.

Arguing that lack of media coverage of missing and murdered Black women is somehow justified by the low percentage of Black women as part of the overall population is a complete non-sequitur. We're not talking about coverage of Black women in general or white women in general - we're talking about coverage of a particular segment of society - women who are missing and murdered. The overall population numbers of women in America is completely irrelevant to the topic.

Using your reasoning, sports coverage should feature only white athletes because Black people are a small percentage of the overall population.

Of course, that would be stupid since we're not talking about the overall population but the segment of the population that plays professional sports. Given that Black athletes represent a much larger portion of that demographic than Blacks represent in the nation as a whole, it's appropriate for the media to give substantially attention to Black athletes, even though Black people represent a minority of the American population. Doing otherwise would be journalistic malpractice.

The same reasoning applies here. The overall population of Blacks versus whites in America is completely irrelevant to the topic of how the media covers cases of missing and murdered women. Just like The fact that white men make up a substantial portion of the American population doesn't lead us to we expect the media to cover substantial numbers of missing and murdered white men, you can't justify the lack of coverage of Black and brown women in this regard by pointing to the percentage of Black women as a percentage of all people in the United States.

If you really want to make a proportionality argument, you need to come up with some numbers related to the topic at hand, I. E., the numbers of women who are missing and murdered And what percentage of those women are Black and brown versus white. If you have those numbers and those numbers show that a significant number of those women are white and a significant minority of those are Black and brown, you may have an argument justifying the lack of coverage of the latter. But otherwise, your proportionality argument falls completely flat.

I hope that clears things up for you .

Again, welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

[RestoRay]

100. You need to show the numbers.

Again, I looked for data on this and couldn’t find anything that shows black female victims are more, less, or equal to the number of white female victims. Until you show something otherwise, I am going to continue to think that 60% of victims are white, 13% are black, etc. Because there is no way the numbers can be close with that big of a population gap.

Most of the murder stories I see are about white men(and men in general) because they are most of the murder victims. Men are overwhelmingly murdered compared to women, and most murder stories you see on TV are about men. I’m not sure what shows you’re watching.

[ismnotwasm]

102. Here.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/240396/number-of-missing-persons-files-in-the-us-by-race/

Also, men are overwhelming murdered by men.

I’m going to assume you can see the problem with these numbers, since you are obviously a numbers guy

[H2O Man]

103. But-but-but .....

that's not what Tucker Carlson says. Tucker points out that -- well, just read this person's contributions, and you'll know exactly what Tucker says.

[ismnotwasm]

106. Heh!

True

[Cobalt Violet]

88. Fragility its seem like to me. Normalized White Supremacy

I give you a lot of credit for dealing well with all these deniers coming at you. Even dealing with one of them is exhausting to me.

[spudspud]

105. +1 /nt

[dsc]

92. The disparity is clear and real

though I tend to think we shouldn't be really covering these missing person/murder cases as national news barring there being a national figure involved.

[TheProle]

95. Given the level of insight

that you obviously believe you have into the hearts, opinions, biases and motivations of others, perhaps a more productive approach would be for you to share with us your proposal for how we can (via representation, policy, the bully pulpit of public officials, public pressure, etc) level the playing field in terms of coverage. I don't think folks at DU would turn a blind eye to your suggestions.

But vulturing your own thread (30 of 94 responses are yours) and pouncing upon every nuance of other people's opinions to tell them how they are wrong, duplicitous or (by implication) racist really comes off more as lecturing and browbeating than it does productive discussion.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

109. +1

[leftstreet]

111. +1

[Nixie]

131. +1, and long-time DUers discussing domestic violence

against women don’t deserve to be shaded.

[hlthe2b]

134. +1

[mcar]

104. Daily Beast covering the issue

https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-gabby-petitos-case-says-about-copsand-us

While domestic abuse is freqeuently ignored, the disappearance and possible murder of an attractive young white woman often gains outsized attention.

...Gabby Petito’s hashtag was searched 268 million times on TikTok. In the same area that Gabby Petito disappeared, 710 indigenous people— mostly girls—disappeared between the years of 2011 and 2020 but their stories didn’t lead news cycles, internet sleuths didn’t clog Instagram and Twitter trying to solve the mystery of their disappearances. Personally, I find it more than a little infuriating that those 710 people didn’t get the same attention as this white, model-thin 22-year-old who’d been documenting her travels through Utah’s national parks in a white van with her boyfriend on Instagram.

While her story has resonated on many levels—to some she is an abused girlfriend, to others the victim of a serial killer of the kind you might find in a cold case podcast series (two newlywed women were murdered in Moab at around the same time as Petito came to town), and many of us see proof in this story of how police often don’t take domestic violence as seriously as they should.

[EffieBlack]

110. Yes

[Decoy of Fenris]

114. Honestly, the only reason this got traction at all is because of TikTok/Reddit/"The Internet".

I don't mean her individual Youtube or Instagram or anything; I heard about the case first on Reddit, where it exploded shortly thereafter. A few days later primetime media took notice. If anything, I wouldn't go blaming "The Media" on this; The Internet decided this story was newsworthy and interesting, and MSM just followed along afterwards. Can't blame them for following what's trending in society, really. They've done the same thing with movies, videogames and all manner of other Net-based pop culture.

ON EDIT: I mean, Gabby Petito now has her own subreddit with 100k followers joined in the past week. Hell, one of the reasons they found the body was because someone appealed to The Internet, and a Youtuber came up with footage, supposedly. The Internet has been one of the biggest drivers of this particular story from start to finish, IMO.

FURTHER EDIT:
Apparently AP wrote an article exactly about the internet's craze of this investigation.

"Gabby Petito story boosted by social media, true-crime craze"

https://apnews.com/article/gabby-petito-social-media-tiktok-investigation-d2e9a5d627c2f39b5633174239c3beaf

Jesus. Apparently TikTok has been -rolling- with this. 500 million views related to her. Yeah, I'd say it's not exactly "The Media" driving this one. More views than the entire population of America itself is a pretty staggering statistic.

[StarfishSaver]

115. The media would never have given this a chance to get traction if she weren't white

Why is it so hard for some people to acknowledge that racial bias is among the many forms of bias that shape media coverage? It's not as if anyone here is being accused of being personally responsible for the media's racial bias - why are people taking it so personally and trying so hard to make excuses for them?

When people accuse the media of other kinds of bias - for example, political bias - folks don't jump in to defend them or claim that they're just giving the audience what they want or that there are so many other reasons for why they report how they do, etc. But when we talk about racial bias, it's as if we've accused all white people of being vicious racists and some people feel the need to jump in and defend the honor of the media, when they do no such thing when other types of media bias are pointed out.

It's very strange.

[Decoy of Fenris]

116. I don't think the media would have given it attention at all, black or white.

My point isn't that the media is or isn't bigoted/racially motivated, my point is that the Media was largely disinterested until the case became an Internet phenomenon. Then, and only -then-, did the media start focusing on the case to the extent that we've recently seen. It wasn't even on the Media's radar until the Internet as a collective entity forced the issue. If anything, yes, I suppose you can blame "The Internet" for being racist or whatever you're on about, but generally speaking, Media follows fads and trends. Tide Pods, Pokemon Go, Gangnam Style, the Media is just a reflection of Society. In this instance, Society decided that it gave a shit about this one particular woman (and in various forms, the associated subcategories of abuse/domestic violence) and she became something of a celebrity.

I guess if you have to point a finger at anyone, just point at randoms on the Internet. They're the ones that decided this case was newsworthy, and the Media just went with the flow of what's popular.

[StarfishSaver]

118. I might agree with you if this were an aberration

But one of the reasons this is an issue is it's just the latest in a long pattern of media pouring attention onto missing and killed white women while virtually ignoring women of color in the same situation.

This can't be viewed in isolation.

[Decoy of Fenris]

119. That very well could be. That said, I think national media 'manhunts' are an aberration themselves.

150,000 people go 'missing' a year. How many do we hear about at the national level? Three, four? How many of the size/intensity of Gabby? Once every five or six years or so?

I agree with you in that the media's representation of 'Missing POCs' is skewed racially, but I also feel that you need to understand that certain "Missing white girl" cases have elements that catch the public's attention. For every "Missing white girl" out there, there's 50,000 more that go unseen/unnoticed at the national level. Same with Native Americans, same with Asians and Blacks, same with everyone of -every- demographic. There just isn't an interest unless there's exceptional circumstances that catch the public eye. In this instance, it was the highly-documented and highly-digital nature of the crime that resulted in it getting the attention it has.

Let me ask you a rhetorical, which you're of course free to not answer. If it were a black woman who'd gone missing, and had numerous Reddits spring up surrounding and devoted to solving her disappearance, and who had over half a billion TikTok searches about her, had a population equal to that of America focused on her story, do you honestly have any doubt that the media -wouldn't- cover such a cultural phenomenon? It'd be Media Suicide NOT to take notice to something of that magnitude, regardless of race.

ON EDIT: A shorter form of that question: If Gabby were black and ALL OTHER circumstances were the same, do you feel it wouldn't have garnered national coverage?

[StarfishSaver]

120. Great question. Thanks for asking it

I don't think the results would have been the same because I think the very same dynamics that lead media to ignore and downplay black and brown women would have been in operation throughout the process and a Black woman wouldn't have gotten the kind of social media attention that Gabby did.

[Decoy of Fenris]

122. "a Black woman wouldn't have gotten the kind of social media attention that Gabby did"

I agree with that, since the majority of social media -isn't- Black, not by a long shot. People tend to gravitate towards causes they sympathize/empathize with, or hit close to home.

Keeping that in mind, I'd ask you to reconsider my hypothesis of Social Media -causing- the Mainstream Media to focus on this particular case. This case took off by and large due to social media output; Does that make the Media's focus on it inherently race-based, or rather a function of a society that undervalues POCs (Not just Blacks) as a whole, on the global scale? After all, this particular case reached far beyond American borders; People in the EU, Oceania, the Balkans, even the Middle East and the Asias were interested in it. Does the Media seizing on the case represent a failure of the Media, given that they only had the choice to a.) Run with the story or B.) ignore the story, or is the Media just doing it's job in representing Society?

I'd posit that it's not the Media "Focusing on another missing white girl", but rather, Society as a whole placing far less value on lives they deem unworthy of the attention. And at that point, it's not the Media's fault by any stretch.


As an aside, I'm probably going to withdraw for the evening (long day), but thank you for the wonderful conversation. Very thought-provoking, and I defer to your experience and knowledge as a Black person over my own interpretations of the situation at hand. It's been a pleasure.

[StarfishSaver]

124. I agree that society "places far less value on lives they deem unworthy of the attention"

but vehemently disagree that the media plays no role in this or bears no responsibility .

The society as a whole not only includes, in large measure, the media, but the media is largely responsible for how society views and treats people within it.

One of the reasons society downplays and discounts the value of Black women is because of how we're represented - and often not represented at all - in the media. These media choices aren't unconnected to and aren't simply an innocent result of how society views us. Those choices more often than not play a substantial role in shaping how society views us.

[radius777]

127. +1. Social media is media driven,

and is in some ways plays even more to a white audience than legacy media does.

Many social media sites are cesspools where the comment sections openly celebrate white supremacy.

The fact that something blows up on social media does not prove it is somehow egalitarian or organic.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

137. Are you serious. This story ( mystery) is everywhere.

literally

[Decoy of Fenris]

140. It is NOW, but a few days before the Media made an issue out of it, it was a nothingburger.

"The Internet" changed that, and indeed helped locate the poor woman's body.

Prior to social media attention via TikTok and Youtube, it was functionally just another random, misc. Missing Persons case.

[betsuni]

141. With a brick?

[Decoy of Fenris]

142. Always, if you're into it. ;) n/t

[betsuni]

143. Democratic women don't like being told to "kindly go f--- yourself with a brick" for

no reason. No thanks. It's not funny.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511459520

[Decoy of Fenris]

146. See, thing is, I own what I write. I wear myself up front and with no delusions.

At that moment in time, your link details -exactly- what I was feeling. I own it, I respect it, and I cherish that response; Not necessarily for the message it conveys, but I embrace it as a part of myself as much as I embrace my anger or fear or sadness. You can link all you want in an effort to 'shame' me, but I feel none and never will. If I could put it as my signature without fear of being alerted nonstop for 'inappropriate signature', I would do so just to prove a point.

You consistently post both the link and the same three-word response to posts I make, but the blunt of it is, I don't care and never will. My experience, feelings and response are just as valid as your own, and your attempt to... do whatever it is you're doing when you scuttle along, reposting the same thing as if it matters... means nothing to me. It never will, because I know what I said and will say it again if the situation is ever the same.

Betsuni, the simple fact is, that little blue link, or anything you may infer from it, means less than nothing to me; it's a nonissue, not worth my time or effort. Something said years ago, but I felt it and I meant it, so I will never disown it.

I've no doubt this will be hidden, as I'm sure "Someone" is looking to bait me into an alert, but I need you to understand just how little this matters. Nothing said or done here will change what I've said in the past, and it won't change what I say in the future. You at the very least deserve the explanation I'm so graciously offering you, since you insist on trying to refight the primaries on any post of mine you happen to see.

Let me know if you need someone matching your proclivities regarding the masonry fetish. I know someone who can hook you up. I'm not that into it, but kinkshaming is for prudes and Republicans, and I'm neither.

[betsuni]

147. What was wrong with Hillary Clinton? She's a Democrat,

"little blue link" It's not about me.

[Decoy of Fenris]

148. I'm not so much into refighting the primaries. Sanders lost.

I explained myself very well in that little blue linkie of yours, go ahead and reread it. Could do you some good, I think.

[betsuni]

149. With a brick.

[Decoy of Fenris]

150. Exactly. No kinkshaming here. Whatever floats your canoe. ;P

[betsuni]

152. Why did you start it then? Why start with f--ing with bricks?

[Decoy of Fenris]

153. Again, I'd suggest you go back and reread the post in question.

Assuming you're posting in good faith, I'll explain it to you again, a bit slower this time:

Politicians who laugh at the notion of improving ourselves are contemptible. The thought of making ourselves better shouldn't -ever- make one giggle in glee with outright contempt and malice, as if we're less than human, worth less than the scum on the sole of their thousand-dollar shoes.

I'd be behind genuinely talking about this with you in DMs or in any other media, however you wish; I'm not a block of bedrock, uncompromising or unwilling to change, but I'm also unwilling to commit to a 100-post sidebar unrelated to the OP, however well deserved.

You got a problem, feel free to approach me in DMs; I invite you, and welcome it with open arms. But as far as this original thread is concerned, I'm done. Frankly, it's not worth any more of my time; My fiance wants my attention and she's more important than randos on the internet or four-year-old has-been Presidential losers who think Americans are scum.

Fire me a DM if you want to continue on this dialogue.

[betsuni]

155. "Politicians who laugh at the notion of improving ourselves are contemptible."

Link. What are you talking about?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

144. Sorry... You're very correct.

[Decoy of Fenris]

145. Perfectly fine, no worries. I'm generally on top of net trends.

I have the blessing/curse of way too much time on my hands (No job ATM) so my net presence is more up to date than it probably should be, i.e. I see things as they happen, rather than on the delay of the average modern Media. Hell, I knew about the Aussie earthquake before most Aussies.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

151. I hear ya. Totally agree. You can see it everyday if you just follow

Twitter for example. At first you think this couldn't be a big deal because I've got CNN on and they aren't talking about it. Those days are gone. Major news outlets are lagging to the power of the internet.

And it's extremely organic. If enough people care about a particular thing it will grow exponentially in minutes. That's what happened with this story. I think putting blame on any media biases that may or may not be true ( other than making money) really has nothing to do with it.

[Decoy of Fenris]

154. Quite so; The Media caters to what will appeal to the masses.

In this case, the masses cared about this particular story, and the Media followed. Using this particular instance -in isolation- to say "The Media is racist" is false, but as another upthread posited, a history of ignoring Native, Asian, and other POC Missing Persons is evident.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

156. No truer statement than that! The media cares about what will appeal to the masses

Begs the question should the media be telling us what to care about or should we be telling them what we do care about?

Perhaps it boils down to the pure definition of the words majority and minority?

I do think there was a time when the media played a much bigger role in defining majority thinking. When there were only three networks. And I think people were in awe of well-respected anchors. For some reason that clip of Walter Cronkite tearing up when John Kennedy got killed comes to mind.