HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » My suggestion to Dems for...

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 06:56 AM

My suggestion to Dems for handling the debt ceiling: IGNORE IT

Continue government functions as usual. What's anybody going to do about it?

It breaks Federal law? So? The previous administration set precedent, over and over, for breaking law. We don't play that way, you say? Well, it's high time we do. Two can play that game, and it might just send the message to those other guys that laws should be taken seriously. In other words, doing it THIS time might be good for the long run.

22 replies, 1130 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply My suggestion to Dems for handling the debt ceiling: IGNORE IT (Original post)
Goodheart Sep 2021 OP
Patton French Sep 2021 #1
Goodheart Sep 2021 #6
hlthe2b Sep 2021 #15
Patton French Sep 2021 #17
Patton French Sep 2021 #18
mahatmakanejeeves Sep 2021 #2
Goodheart Sep 2021 #5
hlthe2b Sep 2021 #14
hlthe2b Sep 2021 #3
Goodheart Sep 2021 #4
mahatmakanejeeves Sep 2021 #9
hlthe2b Sep 2021 #11
no_hypocrisy Sep 2021 #7
Goodheart Sep 2021 #8
hlthe2b Sep 2021 #12
stopdiggin Sep 2021 #10
hlthe2b Sep 2021 #13
brooklynite Sep 2021 #16
FBaggins Sep 2021 #19
muriel_volestrangler Sep 2021 #20
meow2u3 Sep 2021 #21
mahatmakanejeeves Sep 2021 #22

Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 07:17 AM

1. I don't think we have control over that.

If there’s a default, the results happen. It’s not something that can be ignored.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Patton French (Reply #1)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 07:36 AM

6. Why would there be a default if you pay the bill without a declared "debt ceiling"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:33 AM

15. Where is the money supposedly coming from? We have to service the debt we already have!!!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/23/us/politics/debt-limit-fight-yellen.html
WASHINGTON — When Janet L. Yellen was Federal Reserve chair in 2014, she faced a grilling from Republicans about whether the federal government had a plan if the nation’s borrowing limit was breached and measures to keep paying the country’s bills were exhausted.

Ms. Yellen, appearing at a congressional hearing, outlined a dire scenario in which financial institutions might try to make payments that they could not cover, because the Treasury Department was out of money, leading to a cascade of bounced checks. She pushed back against the notion held by some Republicans that an economic meltdown could be averted, warning that there was no secret contingency plan.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hlthe2b (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 09:09 AM

17. Yes, exactly. (n/t)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 09:15 AM

18. As illusory as the concept of money is

It still has to come from somewhere. The whole thing is tremendously frustrating, especially when the other side games the system.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 07:22 AM

2. It doesn't work that way.

If you're stuck behind a paywall, log into your library account and read the article online. Most libraries get The Wall Street Journal. in print, so you can read an actual copy of the paper there too.

Sometimes people at DU report that they can link to the article from a tweet about it and read the whole thing. People also find that the story has been picked up by other news outlets. They search for the title of the article, and they find it at another source.

Best wishes.

POLITICS

How the Federal Debt Ceiling Works and Why It Matters

Congress faces a looming deadline to raise the debt ceiling and prevent a default on the national debt

By James Benedict and Kate Davidson
https://twitter.com/jamesgbenedict
https://twitter.com/KateDavidson
kate.davidson@wsj.com
September 24, 2021

Congress must reach a deal to raise the federal borrowing limit, or debt ceiling, before the government runs out of money to pay its bills by mid-October. The House passed a measure keeping the government funded until early December and suspending its borrowing limit through 2022, but the bill faces an uphill battle in the Senate.

The debt ceiling came out of the need to accrue more debt during the world wars of the 20th century, prior to which Congress had to specifically approve borrowing for each purpose. Since then, the limit has been raised or modified 98 times, according to the Congressional Research Service. Despite partisan disagreements, Congress and the president have never allowed the U.S. to default on its debt.

Create Your Free Account or Sign in to Continue Reading WSJ

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 07:35 AM

5. I don't follow your point.

Yes, I'm well aware of the statutory debt ceiling.

Let me ask you a personal question: do YOU, personally, have a statutory debt ceiling, or is your debt ceiling that to which you've already obligated yourself?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #5)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:29 AM

14. If I have no money and default on my debt, who the hell do you think is going to lend to me?

The SAME goes for the US! How can you NOT understand this?

Honestly, you sound similar to the teens I used to work with seeking to acquire their first credit card and having no idea whatsoever what a card limit and overcharges would mean.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 07:24 AM

3. Really? "U.S. default this fall would cost 6 million jobs, wipe out $15 trillion in wealth" WAPO

U.S. default this fall would cost 6 million jobs, wipe out $15 trillion in wealth, study says
GOP signals refusal to help Democrats raise debt ceiling, in opposition to President Biden’s spending plans
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/09/21/debt-ceiling-recession-/

The United States could plunge into an immediate recession if Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling and the country defaults on its payment obligations this fall, according to one analysis released Tuesday.

Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics, found that a prolonged impasse over the debt ceiling would cost the U.S. economy up to 6 million jobs, wipe out as much as $15 trillion in household wealth, and send the unemployment rate surging to roughly 9 percent from around 5 percent.

Lawmakers in both parties agree that the debt ceiling must be raised to avoid economic calamity, but their standoff over how to do so has intensified. Despite the national debt increasing by close to $8 trillion under President Donald Trump, Republicans have been adamant that they will refuse to help Democrats increase the debt ceiling, in opposition to President Biden’s spending plans.

The Treasury Department has said it will exhaust its “extraordinary measures” to pay the U.S. obligations sometime in October, giving lawmakers little time to act to head off calamity.



Sounds like a rational plan.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hlthe2b (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 07:32 AM

4. You need to re-read what I actually posted.

A statutory debt ceiling? Just act like it doesn't exist. Carry on as usual. The ACTUAL (vs. statutorily declared) debt ceiling would automatically become whatever we're obligated ourselves to. Send out the checks. Pay the bills. The US would not default, the economy would not suffer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:12 AM

9. You wouldn't happen to have been issued a driver's license, would you?

If so, did your instructors explain to you the concept of "stop signs" and "red lights"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:25 AM

11. THAT is so NOT true.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 07:40 AM

7. Tell that to democratic constituents who won't get their Social Security checks post-default.

They depend on that money for survival, among other things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 07:50 AM

8. What?

I specifically said carry on government just as usual. Checks would be sent. Obligations would be paid. There would be no default. The declared "debt ceiling" would be exceeded, but so what?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:27 AM

12. Where the hell do you think the money is going to come from? Someone has to fund the debt

and a default means bond-holders and international creditors will turn away.

You are sorely ill-informed on this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:17 AM

10. I'm stunned.

Your - argument - is straight up horse hockey.

No matter how many times you argue the contrary - there is simply no way to ignore the ceiling (and blithely go about our way) without major and catastrophic consequence. It's time to run this flag down the flagpole.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stopdiggin (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:27 AM

13. Ditto.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:38 AM

16. Any other laws we can ignore at will?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 09:30 AM

19. That's the second time I've seen that here. Hard pass.

No. Treasury is not going to break the law. And DOJ isn't going to let them get away with it because both are part of the same administration.

The next essential step would be canceling all elections - because few would ever vote for us again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 09:43 AM

20. On the whole, it's not "Dems" who control the bank accounts, and would face the consequences

of trying to pay out money from them that's not there. It's permanent government employees, who will follow the existing rules and laws. To "ignore" it, Dems (yes, actual Democrats this time) would need to pass new laws getting rid of the ceiling.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:22 AM

21. The debt ceiling is unconstitutional per the 14th Amendment

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/amendment/amendment-xiv


Section 4

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.


Repunks are actually questioning the public debt and the full faith and credit of the United States by blocking the debt ceiling legislation. They in rebellion against the Constitution, so let's treat them like the enemies they are and scrap the unconstitutional debt ceiling. This isn't a private credit card with a spending limit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to meow2u3 (Reply #21)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:45 AM

22. This is a unique interpretation. NT

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread