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Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:39 AM

Do I have this right?

The Republicans raised the debt ceiling EIGHTEEN TIMES for Reagan, THREE TIMES for Trump and pushed through a 7.8 TRILLION DOLLAR tax cut for mega-corporations and billionaires, but now will not raise the debt ceiling for President Biden because to do so would be "financially irresponsible"?

The GOP wouldn't be THAT shameless------unless they thought they would be allowed to get away with it.

42 replies, 6250 views

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Arrow 42 replies Author Time Post
Reply Do I have this right? (Original post)
Atticus Sep 2021 OP
mnhtnbb Sep 2021 #1
MiniMe Sep 2021 #2
gab13by13 Sep 2021 #3
Crunchy Frog Sep 2021 #12
BootinUp Sep 2021 #28
left-of-center2012 Sep 2021 #16
gab13by13 Sep 2021 #18
left-of-center2012 Sep 2021 #22
OrangeJoe Sep 2021 #37
SoCalDavidS Sep 2021 #4
happy feet Sep 2021 #14
JustAnotherGen Sep 2021 #5
BlueJac Sep 2021 #6
mitch96 Sep 2021 #8
underpants Sep 2021 #7
ffr Sep 2021 #9
greblach Sep 2021 #10
Crunchy Frog Sep 2021 #11
Jakes Progress Sep 2021 #13
Hekate Sep 2021 #15
OldBaldy1701E Sep 2021 #17
Walleye Sep 2021 #19
MurrayDelph Sep 2021 #20
Caliman73 Sep 2021 #21
left-of-center2012 Sep 2021 #23
RainCaster Sep 2021 #24
FakeNoose Sep 2021 #26
CaptainTruth Sep 2021 #25
IronLionZion Sep 2021 #27
live love laugh Sep 2021 #29
Patton French Sep 2021 #30
Skittles Sep 2021 #31
Blue Owl Sep 2021 #32
Evolve Dammit Sep 2021 #33
Ford_Prefect Sep 2021 #34
Moebym Sep 2021 #35
Wolf Frankula Sep 2021 #36
diverdownjt Sep 2021 #40
Dukkha Sep 2021 #38
diverdownjt Sep 2021 #39
ananda Sep 2021 #41
jaxexpat Sep 2021 #42

Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:42 AM

1. Shameless? Republicans are lying, hypocritical a$$holes which makes it easy

for them to be without shame when they refuse to remember or acknowledge history.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:43 AM

2. And the debt that we will default on is the debt that tRump ran up

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:47 AM

3. Bring it up for a clean vote.

It will pass the House. All Democrats should vote for it in the Senate. If Mitch wants to filibuster it make them stand on the Senate floor and explain why Social Security checks aren't coming, make them explain to the active military why they aren't going to get paid.

This should be no big deal for Democrats, call for the vote. I can do without SS for a while.

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 11:31 AM

12. But Manchin and Synema say that we can't move to a talking filibuster.

It would destroy the current norms of civility and bipartisanship.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #12)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 02:47 PM

28. That was pretty funny

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 12:12 PM

16. If I remember correctly from the past shutdowns ..

Social security checks were not endangered.

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 12:42 PM

18. The effects can be delayed,

When extraordinary measures are exhausted, the Treasury spends its cash on hand. When that runs out — which experts estimate could happen in October — the U.S. government would not be able to meet its debt obligations and would go into default. This has never happened in U.S. history.

If the U.S. government cannot pay its bills, millions of Americans would be affected. Social Security payments would not go out; U.S. troops and federal civilian employees would not be paid. Veterans could see compensation or pension payments lapse. And millions of Americans on food assistance would see benefits stop.

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 12:55 PM

22. This ...

Social Security beneficiaries may breathe a sigh of relief to know that the program’s funds will still be there to pay their checks, regardless of what happens with the debt ceiling negotiations, according to Nancy Altman, president of Social Security Works, an advocacy group focused on expanding benefits.

However, there is the possibility that a government shutdown could delay how fast that money reaches people.
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen:
“Nearly 50 million seniors could stop receiving Social Security checks for a time,” Yellen wrote.

Social Security is “sui generis,” a legal term which means it is on its own, according to Altman.

“My reading of the law is that Social Security will not be affected and shouldn’t be affected,” she said.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/what-debt-ceiling-woes-could-mean-for-social-security-benefits.html

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Response to gab13by13 (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 25, 2021, 01:31 AM

37. What he said.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:50 AM

4. They Will Be Allowed To Get Away With It

That's why this country is FUBAR.

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Response to SoCalDavidS (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 11:46 AM

14. This!

The media won't promote messaging from Democrats like Warren who explicitly point out McConnell's hypocrisy in now voting to pay the bills run up by he and Trump.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:50 AM

5. It's a promise to pay

The debt ceiling is promise to pay for money already spent. It gives the USA credibility on existing debts.

They have convinced people that is to INCREASE our debt, when it fact it is the opposite.

The tax cuts and spending during the Trump administration is what we are talking about here.


Suspending or increasing the limit does not authorize any new spending.

But the GOP has told this lie since Reagan and here we are. This has nothing to do with the 3.5 plan.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:56 AM

6. Just trying to hurt Biden and this country

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Response to BlueJac (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 11:15 AM

8. Agree, own the libs and all that jazz.

I don't have any proof but there is a pattern I see of repukes running up the deficit and then the dems reduce it. Then with a big surplus (a la Clinton) the repukes run it up again. All the while railing against the Dems for not lowering the deficit that THEY caused. Biden turned the tables by out spending the repukes and dropping in THEIR lap if and when they get back into power. This is just MY observation. YMMV
McConnell is the devils spawn.. Power and money Power and money Power and money
m

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 11:01 AM

7. Mitch rushed a Handmaid onto the Supreme Court

This pales in comparison but yes that exactly correct.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 11:19 AM

9. The evil that lurks in the GOP is beyond measure. Their party platfor is just toxic on every level.

Here's to hoping that old Covid makes an example of him too.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 11:23 AM

10. I move we Pay our Bills...

simple...

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 11:27 AM

11. Yes, they've lost all shame, and yes, they assume that they can get away

with pretty much anything. We've trained them well.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 11:42 AM

13. republicans being republican. They buy, but they don't pay.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 11:59 AM

15. "The GOP wouldn't be that shameless" -- except they have no shame left at all

Not a shred

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Response to Hekate (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 12:35 PM

17. Nope. (n/t)

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 12:48 PM

19. We have to understand, they are not ashamed of their hypocrisy, they are proud of it

They want everybody and God to know just how hypocritical they are, in the name of what, Jesus I guess

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 12:51 PM

20. It's standard procedure for Mitch McConnell

Mitch wants the Democrats to have to carve out a filibuster exception so that if HE gets back in power, he can carve that sucker down to the bone, boil the bones into a foul broth AND blame the Democrats for starting it.

(See: nominee process, where after Mitch got Harry Reid to slap down Jeff Merkley's plans for filibuster reform by promising to only use it in "extreme situations," which Mitch apparently defined as "Democrats trying to get shit done," Harry created a carve-out for judicial nominees other than Supreme Court. And when he got the chance, Mitch blew up that exception AND blamed the Democrats)

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 12:54 PM

21. You have almost everything right.

Everything except the last part.

The GOP wouldn't be THAT shameless------unless they thought they would be allowed to get away with it.

The above is the part that isn't correct and maybe not for the reason you might think. Conservatives and the Republican party would absolutely be what we call "shameless". Their concept of shame is different from what liberals would consider shame. I would preface this with the obligatory "not all conservatives" but generally, as an ideology the purpose of conservatism is to structure society in a hierarchy with rich White men at the top and everyone else underneath in subservient roles. As such, anything in service to the vision is fair game. If conservatives can maintain power through democracy, they will do so. If they need to do away with it to do so, they have little problem doing so. We need to remember that the foundations of Conservatism were created in the defense of Monarchy, and while they no longer defend the institutions of monarchy, the ideology has not changed significantly. They still support RULE by inherent superiors. They have replaced Kings, Queens, and nobles with wealthy business people.

Liberals want to flatten society and will advocate for a generally equitable distribution of the benefits of society, we recognize that there are people who have specific needed talents and skills, but generally would reward that with perks, not by stating that those people are inherently superior and destined to be in charge. Liberals can be conflicted about aspects of society and their ideas. When we learn that a tradition or way of doing things is damaging others, we may feel torn and struggle with shedding traditions, but ultimately we respond to the new information and make the changes.

When "liberal ideals" fail or we fail to live up to them, we feel a sense of shame for our own failure or the failure of our ideals to help people. Conservatives, in my experience, do not feel that or if they do, they very quickly convert the shame into aggression and backlash. Whenever conservatism fails (which it does ... a lot) conservatives will blame the individual, the politician, anything except the ideology.

It is clearly the ideology that is a failure. If it wasn't a failure, we would all still be ruled by monarchs.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 12:56 PM

23. Social Security checks

Social Security beneficiaries may breathe a sigh of relief to know that the program’s funds will still be there to pay their checks, regardless of what happens with the debt ceiling negotiations, according to Nancy Altman, president of Social Security Works, an advocacy group focused on expanding benefits.

However, there is the possibility that a government shutdown could delay how fast that money reaches people.
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen:
“Nearly 50 million seniors could stop receiving Social Security checks for a time,” Yellen wrote.

Social Security is “sui generis,” a legal term which means it is on its own, according to Altman.

“My reading of the law is that Social Security will not be affected and shouldn’t be affected,” she said.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/what-debt-ceiling-woes-could-mean-for-social-security-benefits.html

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 01:24 PM

24. So cancel that tax break for the rich, and DOUBLE IT!

If the Dems want to have some spending money, the GOP has stated that they must be fiscally responsible. Too bad the GOP never followed their own advice. So turn the tax code back to 1950s when corporations & the rich all paid their fair share of taxes.
Let Moscow Mitch howl over that.

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Response to RainCaster (Reply #24)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 01:46 PM

26. This!!!

Thank you Raincaster, I came on here to say the same.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 01:40 PM

25. Glad to see you posting! And yep, you're right.

ReTHUGlicans will do anything to help a GOP POTUS, even if it hurts the country, but they'll do nothing to help a Dem POTUS.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 01:47 PM

27. Raising it for tax cuts and tremendous defense spending during peace time

is fiscally Republican. But raising it for rebuilding infrastructure during a pandemic is socialism.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 03:13 PM

29. Why doesn't this merit a press conference? nt

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 04:38 PM

30. Yes, unfortunately

you have it exactly right.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 08:56 PM

31. you left off DURING A PANDEMIC

but yeah, that is right

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 09:28 PM

32. Those fucking sacks of fuck can shove their hypocritical bullshit up their asses

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 09:35 PM

33. They count on an un-informed willfully ignorant public. And they are rewarded over and over. The

average American has neither the intellectual curiosity or the sense of civic duty enough to be even minimally informed.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:05 PM

34. There is no shame in today's GOP in either Senate or Congress.

Shame would involve awareness that they were doing something wrong. They do NOT believe anything they do is wrong. They fervently believe they were elected to defeat Democratic governance. NONE of them have the least idea how to constructively participate in Congress or the Senate. They only know how to damage the social contract implicit in the US Constitution.

This is NOT the Congress that passed the Civil Rights Act. There were conservatives in office then who saw the need to answer to a greater national need. I doubt you could find a dozen in either house who would do such a thing now.

My personal view of them is they should be arrested for treason. QED.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Sep 24, 2021, 11:27 PM

35. I made the mistake of reading comments under a Forbes Breaking News video

The video was of Marsha Blackburn calling the fear over what might happen to the economy should the debt ceiling not be raised "manufactured hysteria".

The comments are full of people who've bought into the Republican lies about the debt ceiling being an increase in spending. One user commented that the people of Michigan don't want this - apparently, he speaks for ALL Michiganders - and that the Democrats are out of control.

I decided to throw in my two cents because the comments that were supportive of Marsha Blackburn's views outnumber the critical ones. I don't expect I'll change any minds, but who knows?

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sat Sep 25, 2021, 12:59 AM

36. Time to abolish the debt ceiling

We came up with more than a hundred years ago, to persuade Congress to fund Wilson's war. Time to get rid of it. Put it in the garbage can with Prohibition, another stupid idea.

Wolf

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Response to Wolf Frankula (Reply #36)

Sat Sep 25, 2021, 06:52 AM

40. Use the same garbage bin we put the filibuster in....

And I know this is politically incorrect....but then take that dumpster fire and dump it in the deepest part of the ocean.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sat Sep 25, 2021, 04:08 AM

38. So they can find a ceiling but no basement

and will never hit rock bottom

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sat Sep 25, 2021, 06:49 AM

39. Spot on Atticus...

They're always using the double set of rules that the media let's them use.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sat Sep 25, 2021, 07:07 AM

41. You have it exactly right ...

as usual.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Sat Sep 25, 2021, 08:13 AM

42. Yep, we'd think the republicans live in an impossible dream world.

But then the electorate makes their dream come true again and again.

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