Is it time now to take away a Presidents pardon power?

[duforsure]

Before its abused even more allowing a criminal President to be above the rule of law, and escape justice?

[Celerity]

1. it would take a Constitutional amendment, which will never happen

The pardon power of the President is based on by Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution, which provides:

The President ... shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of impeachment.

[duforsure]

2. I know it would take a lot to get it done,

But its exposed how corruptly it could be abused, or allow a President's criminal actions could be promoted knowing he can escape criminal consequences, or another Presidents use of it for political gains. After corruption of our government has been exposed we need to change loopholes and laws that will put them above thee rule of law, or it'll breed more corrupt people to run for that office .

[Celerity]

5. It is not possible to 'corruption-proof' the US Constitution

It has too many fatal flaws in it that rely on 'good faith actors'.

You now are seeing the structural weaknesses exposed by the rise of a non-good faith Party.

The Rethugs have gained the system to a large degree over the past 56 years, from the bottom up, local to state to federal. All branches. It will only get worse I fear.

The largest imminent danger is that a Rethug Congress in 2024 will refuse to certify enough states' slates of Electoral College if a Dem wins, thus throwing into the House, where they will have enough state delegations (it is basically impossible to pull them under 26 now, the minimum needed, and they will likely have more than 26 anyway) where they will elect the Rethug.

Many constitutional experts and lawyers have been saying this, but little talk if it on here.

[duforsure]

8. You're right,

But not a reason to do nothing when corruption is exposed, and roadblocks could be enacted . When it gets bad enough things will change, for the better, one way or another.

[Celerity]

12. Well, we are trying, but the system is too gamed, has too many blockages and choke

Last edited Sat Sep 25, 2021, 12:27 PM - Edit history (1)

points. Also, the very nature of the Congressional districting (and simply some States as a whole) as it is now in place (and will only get worse) means that our Democratic Caucus has many, many moderates, who are terrified to go hardcore on the Rethugs as they are in swing districts or States.

By our nature, Dems generally hew to the principles of fairplay and an abundance of caution when it comes to the rule of law. I see so so many people everywhere who think the Rethugs will eventually come around to reason and fairplay. They are NOT going to. That Party is dead and buried.

They literally want to kill and/or destroy and/or enslave and/or permanently neuter their opposition and those that they see as 'the other', 'the enemy'. They have been scientifically indoctrinated now for what will be 60 years come 2024. The last 35-40 years (rise of Reagan and hate radio, then Fux News in 1996, my birth year) at a very high level, and the last 15 or so (come 2024) at hyper-saturation levels enabled by the rise of social media, especially 2015 onward.

[StarfishSaver]

21. True a out "corruption-proofing" the Constitution

As long as human beings are involved, there's always the chance that corruption could ensue .

The solution to that is to be more responsible about whom we entrust power to.

[Cattledog]

3. Nope.

It would never happen. It would take a constitutional amendment to do so.

[duforsure]

4. What if Liz Chenney republicans joined in?

At some point more in the republican party will reject these extremists in their party, and they will come to their senses. There will be changes on many things when this happens , and for the good of the country. Her power is growing, and she will help expose many in her party for their crimes. More will be joining her side.

[Celerity]

6. You will never get 2/3rds of Congress NOR 38 states to agree.

You need both (unless you have 34 states propose a Constitutional Convention, which is a nightmare in and of itself), and neither will happen.

[True Blue American]

11. At this point they may

Be able to get the votes. Many Republicans are ashamed of what their party has become.

Even fake good ole boy Kennedy said he would vote to raise the debt ceiling. They do not want to see the country destroyed economically.

[Celerity]

13. Zero chance of a Constitutional Amendment passing on this.

Both Parties would have huge blocs opposed to it.

[Tomconroy]

7. I think we just need to take a way TFGs pardon power by

Not electing him.

[StarfishSaver]

22. This

The power isn't the problem. The problem is the country was too sloppy about whose hands we put that power into.

[True Blue American]

9. It needs to be limited.

There are discussions on that right now. A President should never be allowed to pardon his fellow crooks! Reagan did that, too. Of course he did not remember due to Alzheimer’s.

[onetexan]

10. Agree.

[FBaggins]

14. Impeachment/removal is a much lower bar than limitation by amendment

If you can get the second then why didn’t you use the first?

[StarfishSaver]

24. Excellent point.

[Bluethroughu]

15. Yes.

I believe it should go to Congress for approval. Rump auctioned off pardons, if that's not pure corruption what is.

[Demsrule86]

16. No, it can't be taken away first of all...

[Hotler]

17. Need to remove the unwritten professional courtesy of new presidents not

point fingers at past presidents for their crimes and malfeasance. This business of not pointing fingers (calling for investigations) for fear that some president might point fingers a them is BS. Don't be a crook, fascist, rat fucker, war monger, etc and you have nothing to worry about. Suck it up, Scrutiny comes with the job.

[sarisataka]

18. Are you concerned that Biden

Is going to pardon trump? Because your question is certainly written that way.

[duforsure]

19. No , but,

It could be corruptly used by either party for financial, or political gains, putting them above the law. I also want them to have consequences instead of hearing a what's good for the country bs excuse.

[StarfishSaver]

20. No.

The ability to pardon is an important and very valuable power and has almost exclusively been used for good, with very few exceptions .

We can't let Trump's abuse upend the whole system.

Also, it would take a constitutional amendment to remove it. If the country found the will to amend the Constitution, there are plenty of other areas I would want to fix before messing with the pardon power.

[UnderThisLaw]

23. Some questions

seemed designed to get certain responses. And responders.