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Tue Sep 28, 2021, 11:21 PM

People who 'can't fit into jeans they wore aged 21' risk developing diabetes

People risk developing type 2 diabetes if they can no longer fit into the jeans they were wearing when they were 21, according to one of the world’s leading experts on the disease.

And if people discovered they could no longer fit into the same-sized trousers then they were “carrying too much fat”, Prof Roy Taylor, from Newcastle University, said.

The participants, who had type 2 diabetes despite having a “normal” body mass index (BMI), managed to cut the levels of fat in the liver and pancreas, and the activity of the insulin-producing cells in the pancreas was deemed to be restored.

Taylor, the principle investigator, said: “Doctors tend to assume that type 2 diabetes has a different cause in those who are not overweight. What we’ve shown is that if those of normal weight lose 10 to 15% of their weight, they have a very good chance of getting rid of their diabetes.”

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/27/people-who-cant-fit-into-jeans-they-wore-aged-21-risk-developing-diabetes


This is excellent news that people with Type 2 diabetes can reverse the disease even if normal weight by losing an additional 10 to 15%. Plus of course, it helps with everything else, from cancer to heart disease to joint health.

A Type 2 Diagnosis is much worse for you than AIDS nowadays, as the Lancent pointed out a few years ago. But it doesn't have to be slow decline to the loss of limbs, blindness, then death.

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Reply People who 'can't fit into jeans they wore aged 21' risk developing diabetes (Original post)
cinematicdiversions Sep 2021 OP
brewens Sep 2021 #1
cinematicdiversions Sep 2021 #3
multigraincracker Sep 2021 #16
meadowlander Sep 2021 #2
Otto_Harper Sep 2021 #4
Luciferous Sep 2021 #34
njhoneybadger Sep 2021 #5
Demovictory9 Sep 2021 #14
bluewater Sep 2021 #50
CrackityJones75 Sep 2021 #6
Ms. Toad Sep 2021 #9
Sibelius Fan Sep 2021 #7
lindysalsagal Sep 2021 #54
Spider Jerusalem Sep 2021 #8
herding cats Sep 2021 #10
multigraincracker Sep 2021 #17
qazplm135 Sep 2021 #11
multigraincracker Sep 2021 #18
qazplm135 Sep 2021 #33
ProfessorGAC Sep 2021 #53
RobinA Sep 2021 #55
renate Sep 2021 #12
Hekate Sep 2021 #13
LeftInTX Sep 2021 #15
multigraincracker Sep 2021 #19
634-5789 Sep 2021 #20
hlthe2b Sep 2021 #21
alphafemale Sep 2021 #22
WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2021 #23
Ilsa Sep 2021 #24
WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2021 #25
oregonjen Sep 2021 #44
uponit7771 Sep 2021 #45
Johnny2X2X Sep 2021 #26
ananda Sep 2021 #27
Johnny2X2X Sep 2021 #28
Klaralven Sep 2021 #29
MineralMan Sep 2021 #30
radical noodle Sep 2021 #31
Zeitghost Sep 2021 #32
Mossfern Sep 2021 #35
ismnotwasm Sep 2021 #36
inwiththenew Sep 2021 #37
Happy Hoosier Sep 2021 #39
Happy Hoosier Sep 2021 #38
GumboYaYa Sep 2021 #40
Happy Hoosier Sep 2021 #42
Mosby Sep 2021 #47
GumboYaYa Sep 2021 #49
Happy Hoosier Sep 2021 #51
GumboYaYa Sep 2021 #52
bullwinkle428 Sep 2021 #41
Tree Lady Sep 2021 #43
Mosby Sep 2021 #46
greenjar_01 Sep 2021 #48

Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Tue Sep 28, 2021, 11:25 PM

1. I'm wearing a belt I had 42 years ago in high school. I just got down to that size.

I don't have any jeans from that far back, but do from the early 90's. I was pretty slimmed down then too. I picked the right time to lose a bunch of weight.

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Response to brewens (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 28, 2021, 11:29 PM

3. I am in the same boat. Lost a ton of weight since Feb of this

year. About twenty pounds away from my high school weight.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 04:23 AM

16. Weigh the same as I did when I graduated from high school

53 years ago. However I have a very different shape to my body now.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Tue Sep 28, 2021, 11:28 PM

2. Fortunately I put on all my weight in my teens

so I'm probably only a size or two up from where I was at 21.

Literally every single other person in my family besides me has diabetes no matter what they weigh so I'm not holding my breath I'll be spared. I'll just be happy to stave it off until my 70s.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Tue Sep 28, 2021, 11:36 PM

4. I can still wear the jeans I wore when I was 21

One pair per leg.

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Response to Otto_Harper (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:33 PM

34. 😂

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Tue Sep 28, 2021, 11:50 PM

5. I can fit in them but the waist is four inches lower.

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Response to njhoneybadger (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:17 AM

14. lol

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Response to njhoneybadger (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 30, 2021, 11:03 AM

50. +1000 lol

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Tue Sep 28, 2021, 11:52 PM

6. Having been diagnosed for 18 years

Having been diagnosed for 18 years as type 2 diabetic I can say this is the dumbest fucking article I have ever read regarding diabetes. I have read a lot of stuff but this one is just tops for simplistic bullshit.

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Response to CrackityJones75 (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:50 AM

9. Agreed - its nonsense.

My spouse who weighs around 115 at 5'2 has diabetes that is worse than mine - her A1C is regularly over 7.0 (on the maximum dosage of metformin). She lost about 20 lbs right after diagnosis and has maintained that loss. My mother who has lost 25% of her body weight since diagnosis has an even higher A1C on the same dose. Her father was skinny as a rail had diabetes (as does every descendant my age or older - regardless of weight).

My weight fluctuates a lot - and is way too high at the moment (I'm formally obese on the BMI scale), but my A1C (on the lowest does of metformin) is regularly 6.3 or below.

The advice in the article is based on nonsense that blames diabetes (both cause and inability to treat) on fat people's supposed inability to control what they eat. That way the big national groups (and doctors) don't have to accept any responsibilty for the challenges of managing the disease.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:27 AM

7. Not to brag, but I can still fit into the socks I wore in high school,

and I’m 67.

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Response to Sibelius Fan (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 30, 2021, 02:02 PM

54. What a braggy-bragger you are!

I love droll.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:33 AM

8. I can't fit into the same size trousers I wore at 21 because I was probably underweight back then

I was around 135/140 lbs at 6'0" and am now around 165 or so (35 pounds lighter and four inches taller than average among men my age, according to this).

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:55 AM

10. When I was 21 I weighed 100-103 pounds.

I wore special extra slim jeans for juniors in a size 00. I'm 120 lbs now and wear a size 3. I was too thin then, and I've learned to be healthier now. My A1C is excellent.

Headlines like these are dangerous. I understand a lot of folks get bigger, I did, too. It's just not always an unhealthy thing.

Also, my husband just hit the threshold for type 2 by the barest margin. He's obese but has lost 23 lbs by eliminating his refined sugars and exercising since his diagnosis. The doctor says by his 3 month check he expects he'll be below the threshold again. He will not be close to the jean size he wore at 21.

Everyone is still individual and a different medical case.

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Response to herding cats (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 04:35 AM

17. Everyone is different, true.

But, I think everyone, large, small, old, young could benefit from the recommended diet for diabetics. Refined carbs are killing us.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:55 AM

11. This is nonsensical

I was 135 lbs at age 21 and 5-11.
I'm supposed to be 135 lbs at age 51?

That's a pretty impossible standard.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 04:41 AM

18. When I was 18 I was 6'3' and 198 lbs.

By the time I was 25 I was 250 lbs. Now at 71, I''m back to 198. 3 months ago, due to covid I was up to 221 and now back to 198. It does require some work.

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Response to multigraincracker (Reply #18)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:32 PM

33. My point is everyone is different

6-3 and 198 isn't underweight.

5-11 and 135 is.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 30, 2021, 12:50 PM

53. Agreed

I got married at 23. I weighed 138# and had a 29" waist, maybe 30 depending on brand of pants
42 years later I'm a 32 or 33 and weigh 165#.
At my physical last year I had an A1C check because both of my parents & both of my grandmothers had diabetes.
My A1C was 1.5.
I've gained 27 pounds in 42 years and am not diabetic, but I have no shot of wearing the size pants I used to.
Could I be in better shape? Yes.
Are there some pounds I could shed? Yes, again.
But, this makes me such an outlier to this conclusion, it calls into doubt the whole premise.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 30, 2021, 02:44 PM

55. I Was

110 at 5'7" when I was 21. It was totally normal for me, but I looked too damn thin. I'm now 63 and I could stand to lose a few, but no way do I want to weigh 110 at this age. Skinny older women look awful in my opinion. I'd have to starve to get back into my size 3 jeans.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 01:16 AM

12. Oh, bullshit

It would be WEIRD for a person to maintain their 21-year-old weight.

Even my super-skinny mom couldn’t fit into clothes she wore at 21 and she absolutely needs to gain weight.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:13 AM

13. Uhhh, no. At 21 I was working my way thru college on a very tight budget. My ribs showed.

These one-size-fits-all statements are dumb.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:33 AM

15. I weighed 100 pounds when I was 21

I had three kids since then and never lost the flab. I now weigh 110 pounds.

I'll be 65 in a month. I'm not at risk for diabetes. I have flab, but no signs of diabetes.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 04:44 AM

19. No one in my family has or had diabetes.

I think diabetes is like diarrhea, it runs in your genes.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 04:46 AM

20. I was 21... 49 years ago. Meh.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 05:30 AM

21. A really simplistic standard. In my teens, anorexia/bulimia among teen girls was epidemic.

And given the rapid emergence of celebrity culture driving impossible standards that fully extended into my 20s.

So all those women who finally got to a normal weight in their 30s are projected in this ridiculously simplistic metric?

There are some similar issues for men.

Simply saying gaining weight that puts one's BMI into the overweight or obese range in the decades from young adult to middle age increases risk for type II diabetes is accurate, understandable, and appropriate messaging. No cutesy attempts to compare one's jean size during a time when many are unhealthy to begin with.
https://www.bmi-calculator.net/

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 05:40 AM

22. They would be 3 or 4 sizes too big.

Birth control hormones, at least in the mid eighties did not agree with my body.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 06:35 AM

23. What did participants do to lose eight, how quickly did they lose it, how long have they kept it

off, will they have to make more changes to keep it off (and if they do, do they know that), and how do we know the changing number on the scale is what made the difference, and not the changed behavior of participants?

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 06:38 AM

24. My hips didn't finish developing until I was closer to

26. The spread from left pelvic bone to right wasn't done at 21. Weight change by only a few pounds; was still skinny, but hips changed and I looked less like a boy from behind.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 06:39 AM

25. Great example of how medical science ignores huge swaths of the population in favor of white men.

All sorts of crazy shit happens to a body in pregnancy, childbirth and menopause.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #25)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 06:00 PM

44. This!!!

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #25)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 06:03 PM

45. ****THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾**** I was no doubt shorter at 21 vs 29 !!

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 06:59 AM

26. Lots of anecdotes

A reminder, 43% of the adult US population is obese and 74% are overweight. Weight is a huge health issue and the country is suffering.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 07:01 AM

27. Oh please. Can anyone past a certain age fit into jeans they wore at 21?

I know I couldn't, and I'm not even close to getting
diabetes.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 07:04 AM

28. Lots of anecdotes

A reminder, 43% of the adult US population is obese and 74% are overweight. Weight is a huge health issue and the country is suffering.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 08:10 AM

29. During WW II, Type 2 diabetes disappeared in London

England does not produce enough food to feed itself, and shipping was restricted by U-boat warfare. Imports of sugar from the Caribbean were scarce.

Strict rationing was in force.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 08:14 AM

30. That's probably an overstatement.

In reality, few people can fit into the clothing they wore at 21 as they age. I certainly can't, but I'm not obese at all.

This is sort of an alarmist statement.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 08:24 AM

31. This is unrealistic for many women

whose shape changes after childbirth. I weigh a little less than I did in high school but my hips and waist have spread out a bit through the decades that followed.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:57 AM

32. The headline is a bit excessive

But the core message, that those with diabetes need to lose weight, even if not obese, is spot on. Even carrying around an extra 20-25 lbs is extremely unhealthy. It's a message many (most?) don't want to hear, as evidenced by many responses here, but it's the truth.

Anybody that has type 2 diabetes should look into Dr. Jason Fung and his work on fasting.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:42 PM

35. About 5 years ago I was at my high school weight

My husband, my friends and even my doctor told me to put on a few pounds because I looked emaciated.
It does depend on where you carry your weight as well. Mine is in my legs and rear end - at my HS weight, one could count my ribs all the way up to and including my sternum - my face was practically skeletal.

I'm a bit heavier but healthier looking now.
My blood tests confirm that I'm healthy.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:42 PM

36. This is NOT sustainable

The participants, who had an average BMI of 24.5, followed a weight-loss programme that included a low-calorie liquid diet for two weeks – where each day they were consuming only 800 calories a day through soups and shakes.


It’s well documented that weight loss can reduce risk of diabetes though. This hyperbolic crap is annoying

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:45 PM

37. Too many people in this thread are caught up in their own personal reason why this doesn't apply to

them. Look, you know what the thrust of this thing is about. People are carrying too much extra weight. Now you could not fit in your 21 year old jeans and still be healthy for various reasons but in general people are carrying around way too much extra weight. It's not healthy and it leads to all sorts of problems later in life if not dealt with.

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Response to inwiththenew (Reply #37)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 01:02 PM

39. Please look at the actual research

And understand what the actual mechanisms of chronic disease are. Fat is not the primary cause of them. Rather the problems thatr cause them also tend to make us fat. We need to treat the right disease, which in this case is insulin resistance.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:58 PM

38. Horse shit.

More bad science.

There is LOTS and LOTS of work on this in the 10-15 years.

Insulin resistance causes diabetes, not fat.

Being insulin resistant also means you are more likely to gain weight, because insulin resistant people have hyperinsulinemia, and insulin is the hormone that signals the body to store excess calories as fat.

This doc needs to read the actual endocrinological work being done.

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Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #38)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 01:11 PM

40. Not visceral fat, but ectopic liver fat is highly correlated with insulin resistance

Skinny people can have fatty liver disease.

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Response to GumboYaYa (Reply #40)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:31 PM

42. And what causes fatty liver?

Insulin resistance. And lots of fructose.

They are correlated, but the fat itself is NOT the cause. It is a co-symptom in many cases (but not all).

When the body is insulin resistant, the pancreas has to produce more and more insulin to control blood glucose levels. Insulin is also the fat storage hormone. So the body is converting glucose to triglycerides, and even the liver is storing fat.

You are correct that skinny people can have fatty liver. That is because they are insulin resistant.

It is also possible for a fat person to be metabolically healthy.... with normal insulin and blood glucose levels. Acording to Robert Lustig, a UCSF professor who has done a tone of research here, about 20% of "obese" people are metabolically healthy. And about 30% of "normal weight" people are not.

In any case, it's important we pursue root causes and not try to treat disease by trying to treat correlated symptoms.

We've been trying to treat T2 diabetes for DECADES by getting people to lose weight, but that's the wrong end of the stick. What WORKS in reversing T2D is severe carbohydrate restriction... either through a very low carb diet, or a very low calorie diet (either just a straight-up diet, or with bariatric surgery... which has its own risks). Both can reverse T2D, but the VLC diet is much easier to maintain than severe caloric restriction without surgery.

In the last year, I've lowered my A1C from 10.6 to 4.8 with a VLC diet. It also happened to result in 136 lbs of weight loss so far. Because what it was treating (elevated insulin) was also keeping me heavy.

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Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #42)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 06:46 PM

47. +1

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Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #42)

Thu Sep 30, 2021, 11:00 AM

49. I agree 100%.

Last edited Thu Sep 30, 2021, 07:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Bob Lustig is a personal friend and scientific advisor to me. I am reading his book Metabolical right now. He goes much deeper on this subject in his book.


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Response to GumboYaYa (Reply #49)

Thu Sep 30, 2021, 11:23 AM

51. That's awesome!

I'm quite impressed by his work. I've read his book and watched a ton of his lectures. If you see him, tell he probably saved my life and improved it's quality.

I also really like Phinney's work.

It's really changed my life!

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Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #51)

Thu Sep 30, 2021, 12:17 PM

52. Bob and I diverge a bit in our thinking

I get the impact of fructose, but I also think any overabundance of sugars regardless of type can lead to mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress and all the bad stuff that happens because of that. I put a bit more emphasis on exercise in my perspective than Bob does, but we are in vehement agreement that we need processed food out of our diets.

The mini med school lecture where he goes through the chemistry of sugar synthesis is fantastic.

I will pass your message on to him.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 01:47 PM

41. That literally describes 99.9% of the entire population. I'm naturally tall

and lean, so I was skinny as a rail in high school and college, and I believe I wore a 29" waist at that time. Got into adulthood, and eventually began gaining weight before realizing I needed to get a bit more serious about taking care of myself.

Spent more time at the gym, and have been a cyclist for several years now. I probably look better physique-wise at age 57 than I ever have in my life. I even managed to achieve some abdominal definition! I weigh around 152 lbs. at a hair over 6 feet tall, and I still have to wear a 31" waist when I purchase jeans.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:34 PM

43. I was 105 then no way! 😛

I am on a sugar detox now my doctor asked me to blood sugar getting higher and blood pressure.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 06:44 PM

46. That's just stupid

I can't wear the same watch I owned in my 20s. It's not because I got fat.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 06:50 PM

48. 32 x 32 21 to Infinity

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