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Wed Sep 29, 2021, 11:08 AM

Natural COVID-19 immunity is powerful -- but kind of irrelevant

Good piece for the vaccine hesitant and those who wonder why they should get vaccinated even if they've had COVID, and for Republicans who keep complaining about why natural immunity doesn't get credit.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/574284-natural-covid-19-immunity-is-powerful-but-kind-of-irrelevant

"Over 43 million Americans have reported cases of COVID-19. Many of them likely have some amount of natural immunity, and this kind of immunity can be quite protective, even without vaccination. Why does it seem that scientists are ignoring natural immunity in the national discussion of vaccine mandates and vaccine passports?

Natural immunity can, indeed, be powerful. Even before vaccines were available, individuals who recovered from COVID-19 had detectable T-cell responses, and reinfections were rare, at least prior to the emergence of the aggressive Delta variant.

However, the scientific community strongly recommends vaccination even in people who had COVID-19 infection. There are very good reasons for this. Every component of the immune response to the SARS-CoV-2 virus improves after vaccination, including antibodies and T-cells. In those with prior COVID-19 infection, vaccination can elicit important cross-variant neutralizing antibodies. And clinical protection improves after vaccination in people who had prior infection: In a recent study, people with prior COVID-19 who received even one vaccine dose had half the risk of a breakthrough infection than unvaccinated people with prior COVID-19. So, vaccination even helps those with prior COVID-19 (and everyone they interact with). "

Importantly

"Not everyone who has a case of COVID-19 will have natural immunity. In a recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study of those with prior COVID-19 infection, 36 percent did not form any antibodies against the virus. This is in stark contrast to antibody formation in 100 percent of (non-immunocompromised) people who receive even one dose of an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna), as impressively reported in the large vaccine trials. So, from a practical perspective, if a business or school is trying to figure out if someone is safe to be around, they can rest quite assured that someone who shows them vaccine proof is safe, but it would be nearly impossible to determine if someone with prior COVID-19 is safe. Beyond the logistical issues of proving that a person had prior COVID-19, how can they prove they're in the 64 percent who have some natural immunity?"

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Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply Natural COVID-19 immunity is powerful -- but kind of irrelevant (Original post)
LymphocyteLover Sep 29 OP
genxlib Sep 29 #1
tblue37 Sep 29 #5
LymphocyteLover Sep 29 #14
Walleye Sep 29 #2
vanlassie Sep 29 #3
LymphocyteLover Sep 29 #13
Johnny2X2X Sep 29 #4
genxlib Sep 29 #7
Johnny2X2X Sep 29 #8
Mad_Machine76 Sep 29 #6
Johnny2X2X Sep 29 #9
Mad_Machine76 Sep 29 #11
Caliman73 Sep 29 #10
Mad_Machine76 Sep 29 #12

Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 11:50 AM

1. I think there is another important point related to this

I hear a lot of complaints about vaccine mandates not including allowances for people who already had it.

But if the mandates provided a waiver for anyone who had previously had the disease, then idiots would be out trying to get the disease.

I can see it now. The equivalent of chickenpox parties to pass it around so that they meet mandates without actually getting the shot.

That would be a terrible (and stupid) unintended consequence.

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Response to genxlib (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 01:47 PM

5. Early in the pandemic there were stories about groups of young men who did just that--covid

parties to get infected.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-hospital-died-covid-party

Texas hospital says man, 30, died after attending 'COVID party'
The man, 30, told his nurse, 'I think I made a mistake'


https://www.foxnews.com/us/tuscaloosa-covid-parties
Tuscaloosa students throwing dangerous 'COVID parties,' city councilor warns:
She fears guests at future parties may not be aware of the true intention of the gatherings and could possibly be exposed to the virus.


College students in Alabama who contracted the coronavirus have been attending COVID-19 parties over the past few weeks as part of a game to intentionally infect others, according to a city council member.

Tuscaloosa City Councilor Sonya McKinstry told ABC News that party organizers are purposefully inviting guests who have tested positive for COVID-19 with the goal of infecting each other for money.

"They put money in a pot and they try to get COVID," she told the news outlet. "Whoever gets COVID first gets the pot. It makes no sense. They're intentionally doing it."

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Response to genxlib (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:14 PM

14. good point

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 12:14 PM

2. I just keep thinking of how many times I have caught the common cold, a coronavirus

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 01:31 PM

3. Also, tons of people "say" they had it in the earliest months.

They have no proof and they are probably wrong.

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Response to vanlassie (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:12 PM

13. Yup, exactly the problem

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 01:43 PM

4. Hear here

Important article.

So this latest wave has peaked, you wonder if it's because between the vaccinated and those with some natural immunity we're approaching the magic number(whatever it is) with some immunity.

55% fully vaccinated, 64% with 1 shot. Although only 13% of the population has tested positive, it's likely it's double or triple who've gotten Covid. Erring on the side of a lower number, say it's double, that means 1/4 of the population not vaxxed has some immunity because they've had Covid. So we're approaching 75% with some immunity, maybe more. Eventually we're going to hit a number where community spread is very low.

I'm hoping there won't be another spike after this one, but realistically, there will be a smaller surge this Fall/Winter in the North.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 01:56 PM

7. I agree with you in general

But there is likely a lot of overlap in that number. I, for one, am a double dipper having had both the shots and the virus.

I think there is a lot of regional variation as well since the hot spots tend to be lower than average on the percentage of vaccinated.

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Response to genxlib (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:02 PM

8. That's why you only take those who are unvaccinated

36% of the population has has no shots, 1 in 4 of them is 9%, 1 in 3 is 12%. Eliminates any overlap.

So we're approaching 3 in 4 people with some immunity.

I agree that there will be great variation across regions. Even if the country hits 75% with some immunity, there will be Red States that are barely at 55%.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Original post)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 01:54 PM

6. Somebody needs to share this with Tucker Carlson

He is ALWAYS ranting about "natural immunity" and how people whom have had it shouldn't be required to be vaxxed.

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Response to Mad_Machine76 (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:04 PM

9. FOX in general been saying this for months

And the biggest problem with it is that most of these Right Wingers who think they had it didn't. I don't know of any anti vaxxer who hasn't said, "well, in early 2020, I got this really severe cold and missed 3 days of work, I'm sure now it was Covid, natural immunity!"

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:28 PM

11. Right

He was also basically saying that people in the military shouldn't be forced to get vaxxed because they all have magical natural immunity (somehow).

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Response to Mad_Machine76 (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:12 PM

10. Assuming he says anything in good faith... spoiler, he doesn't

Carlson is not a stupid man. He only plays one on TV.

He understands the situation. He is not arguing his points in good faith. They are likely not even truly his points. He is an evil little bastard that says what he says for two reasons. 1. He gets paid 2. He will say anything to destabilize the Democratic run government to further his White Nationalist ambitions.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:29 PM

12. Yup

He is now openly talking about "Replacement Theory". Gregg Abbott is too weak/ineffective on immigration for Carlson and he has taken to taunting Abbott on his show (I listen to a podcast that debunks him on a weekly basis)

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