Biden needs a win.

[Drunken Irishman]

This infrastructure bill could be his presidency. I know it sounds like hyperbole but presidents need tangible things to run on for reelection.

I am a firm believer that if the ACA had failed in 2010, Obama is at risk of losing reelection. The ACA, as unpopular as it was at times, was still a rallying cry for liberals. In fact, it still is. The Trump attempt to repeal the ACA directly led to the Democrats taking back the House in 2018.

It was a huge piece of legislation that likely cemented his reelection bid since the opposing candidate's entire campaign was built on repealing it.

I really hope Biden can get this deal done - but to those who feel nothing is better than a significantly altered bill, I disagree only because I suspect if it doesn't get done, if it fails, that's going to be a cloud over the heads of Democrats in 2022 and 2024.

Could they overcome it? Absolutely - Clinton did when his healthcare fight bombed. But it will prove extremely difficult, especially now with how polarized the country is today.

[Beartracks]

1. For me, I'm not going to NOT vote for Democrats if they don't manage to deliver 100%...

... because I know that Democrats will keep pushing for that 100% in subsequent terms.

But, yeah, I see where you're coming from.

==========

[Wounded Bear]

19. I agree. Unfortunately millions of people don't...

and I'm talking about that big center part of the electorate that barely pays attention and when election day rolls around they remember simple things like "they didn't get anything done" and switch sides, ignoring the fact that the "side" they are switching too are the primary reason why nothing got done.

Again, I agree, if we don't get the bills passed we can kiss the House and Senate goodbye in '22 and probably beyond.

[Demsrule86]

22. The infrastructure bill will likely save us in 22 and we run on finishing the job by

passing reconciliation when we have a larger majority.

[Wounded Bear]

26. I've seen you posting that and I disagree...

Just the hard infrastructure bill won't do the trick. We need both. Hard infrastructure and a trimmed down version of the reconciliation bill would work.

For one thing, we absolutely need to extend the Child Tax Credit indefinitely.

If we don't get both, we probably won't expand our Senate majority.

[KentuckyWoman]

2. Biden has been at this a long time - he knows how the sausage gets made.

There is no way it fails. He'll end up getting half of what he wants passed. In the long view no one will remember the deal started at $3.5. What they'll remember is that he cared enough to get something done.

[PortTack]

3. This!!

[StarfishSaver]

9. This!

[luv2fly]

11. It started at 6

3.5 was a compromise.

[KentuckyWoman]

29. Yeah I know AND

Manchin and his Republican friends keep moving the goalpost and I expect Biden knew they would. Republicans already agreed to 3.5. I think the number we end up with will be closer to the 3.5 than half, but there will be provisions taken away, take out some salt, add more sage ...

When it's all done both sides will brag and both sides will whine. All we can hope is that ultimately America will win as a whole instead of just the already rich.

[qazplm135]

4. If progressives are disillusioned

It's not a win.

Stop thinking short term news cycle.

[Hoyt]

5. Getting nothing ain't progress(ive).

[qazplm135]

6. No it isn't

Neither is telling progressives tough luck while the moderate plan passes.

Both pass we win. That's it.

[OnDoutside]

8. But if they were to get it fully funded for 6 years instead of 10 ?

That would still be a win for progressives, in your view ?

[qazplm135]

12. Sure

Why not?

[Demsrule86]

15. And if nothing passes? We all lose....the midterms and maybe 24.

[qazplm135]

17. Then I guess Manchin and Sinema

Better get to work huh?

Bernie came out and said he understands it needs to be less than 3.5. sounds to me like a compromise shouldn't be that hard then to get there provided they are equally willing to do it, right?

You seem to place 100 percent of the burden to give on one side, why is that?

You also seem WAY more invested in one bill than the other when everyone else is invested in both bills, why is that?

Why are you so convinced both bills are going to fail if one isn't passed right now?

[Demsrule86]

21. Let me tell you something...they all better get to work, and I want the reconciliation bill to pass

but if the votes are not there...I expect all Democrats to vote for the infrastructure bill...and I believe there will be hell to pay if this doesn't happen. We will lose the midterms.

[qazplm135]

23. So you do value one over the other

Short sighted and if you think putting one side over the other is going to win us the midterms, you're wrong.

You clearly seem to think moderates matter more than progressives. Who do you think drives voter turnout? Who do you think is more passionate? How do you expect those moderates to win if pissed off progressives stay home?

How?

You want folks to be "Democrats" when one faction has skin in the game but not the other.

Where's your call for Manchin and Sinema to compromise? Why are you unconcerned about what happens if reconciliation fails?

[Demsrule86]

16. You get what is possible but refusing to pass a good bill because you are mad you can't get your

own way is foolish. There is no reason not to pass the infrastructure bill...and I hope no one liberal or moderate would do such a thing.

[qazplm135]

18. Lol

And refusing to debate a good bill and compromise on it until you get your own way is something I'd hope moderates wouldn't do and guess what, a MAJORITY of them aren't doing that, just a small handful.

You know very well the reason. You just care about one bill a lot more than the other. Biden cares about both and he's fine with waiting. Why aren't you?

[Demsrule86]

25. I care about passing something...If I were the head of the Senate and had absolute power...I

pass both bills...I want both bills passed. But we have to get something. And I don't understand how some don't see this...it is so clear. I don't know if it is possible to get reconciliation at this moment...I hope we can. But for fuck's sake don't blow up our midterm chances by not getting anything. There is good stuff in the infrastructure bill. Like the ACA it will be popular and we can come back for more.

[qazplm135]

27. Sigh

You don't really want both bills to pass. You want one bill to pass

BOTH bills have exactly the same bar to passing, factions on each side don't want the other side to pass the other sides bill until theirs is.

It's the same problem, yet you're only concerned about one bill not passing instead of both.

Our midterm chances rely on progressives turning out, yes or no?

[Sewa]

7. Lol more centrist doom n gloom

More scare tactics before a vote has been cast. What happened to the “I trust President Biden” mantra?💀🤙

[Demsrule86]

14. Something has to pass . You don't walk away from infrastructure for any reason period.

I hope both bills pass, but that may not be possible.

[qazplm135]

24. Both bills pass or no bill passed

So should be pretty easy to get the former.

[Hoyt]

28. Biden just said it ain't gonna be $3.5T (over 10 years). He gets reality.

[Demsrule86]

20. If some don't vote democratic...then the party will be forced to look for new voters,

and those who stayed home or voted third party will have less power... not more. We have to win elections period. This idea of message voting or staying home because you didn't get what was demanded as the votes were not there is bullshit. We wasted President Obama's entire presidency on message voting in 10 and 14. We lost a SCOTUS pick because of this. Holding Democrats 'feet to the fire merely breeds apathy in Democratic voters and multiple election losses.

I would have thought that most would understand this after President Obama was stabbed in the back in 10 and 14. I well remember those who favored no health-care plan if the ACA was all we could get...we should 'wait'. Well, they were wrong then and those who want to blow up the infrastructure bill if they don't get their own way are wrong now. It is always better to get something. And vote blue always...in every election or we will lose important policy and possibly our Republic.

[UTUSN]

10. Besides RIDDING us of Drumpf, his political wins have been LONG TERM

meaning the reevaluatipins will be favorable.

[Demsrule86]

13. You are exactly right...we need this bill. for both 22 and 24...and i swear to God, I will support

primary challenges to any who block the infrastructure bill and you all know how I feel about primarying sitting Democrats... the reconciliation bill was always iffy...we may need more Senators in order to pass it or perhaps we will pass one that spends less...but we need to pass something. And if only the infrastructure bill passes, I can live with that.

[peggysue2]

30. Americans need a win.

The environment needs a win. Education needs a win. Working men and women need a win. Struggling families need a win. The list goes on and on because the whole point of Build Back Better is bringing balance to the last 30-50 years when only the rich and corporate interests experienced mega-wins.

Yes, politically Joe Biden and his agenda need a positive outcome but this package is really for the rest of us, both an economic and morale booster after years of losing ground.

It's why the GOP is so against the legislation bc they know it will work and expose the lies they've been peddling:

Trickle down economics; small, non-existent government; anti-unionism; only the lazy are poor; and wedge issues, the cultural battles are what's keeping the US from being truly great.

The Big Lie has been supported, pushed into being by all the small, medium lies told over decades.

It's why every election is important, not simply the presidential elections but state and local races as well. We build a supportive army from the ground up and flush the nay-sayers; the anti-democracy jerks; un-American, flag-waving howlers and theocrats out of the system.

There are local, state races coming up in my new district in PA. I'll be out there casting my vote for a slate of strong Dems for the local school board, judges and township council members.

Because Build Back Better starts with me.

[Tribetime]

31. Thank you!