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Mon Oct 4, 2021, 10:29 PM

 

In case you missed it (I did): Jan. 6 panel will issue 'criminal referrals' for subpoena defiers

The committee investigating the Jan. 6 insurrection and former President Donald Trump’s effort to overturn the 2020 election will issue “criminal referrals” to witnesses who refuse to obey subpoena deadlines, Chair Bennie Thompson said Friday.

“The committee will probably for those who don’t agree to come in voluntarily, we’ll do criminal referrals and let that process work out,” Thompson told reporters at the Capitol.

In a brief interview, he said the panel had on Friday begun interviewing people who volunteered to cooperate with the investigation. Additional subpoenas would be coming out shortly, he said.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/01/bennie-thompson-jan-6-panel-subpoena-514940


By "criminal referrals" he means that the committee will cite the recalcitrant witness(es) for Contempt of Congress and refer the matter to the U.S. Attorney for criminal prosecution.

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Reply In case you missed it (I did): Jan. 6 panel will issue 'criminal referrals' for subpoena defiers (Original post)
StarfishSaver Oct 2021 OP
AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2021 #1
Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2021 #10
jpak Oct 2021 #2
bamagal62 Oct 2021 #3
Effete Snob Oct 2021 #4
Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2021 #8
OAITW r.2.0 Oct 2021 #5
malaise Oct 2021 #17
malaise Oct 2021 #18
sheshe2 Oct 2021 #6
Silent3 Oct 2021 #7
Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2021 #9
StarfishSaver Oct 2021 #11
Silent3 Oct 2021 #15
Effete Snob Oct 2021 #16
Effete Snob Oct 2021 #19
Silent3 Oct 2021 #22
Effete Snob Oct 2021 #23
Silent3 Oct 2021 #24
monkeyman1 Oct 2021 #12
StarfishSaver Oct 2021 #13
monkeyman1 Oct 2021 #14
Effete Snob Oct 2021 #20
Kingofalldems Oct 2021 #21
Effete Snob Oct 2021 #25

Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Mon Oct 4, 2021, 10:32 PM

1. In before...

The "Garland won't do anything" crowd arrives...

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Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 4, 2021, 11:47 PM

10. Too late. "The Garland won't do anything" crowd, as you say

arrived before the paid lobby! It's a good day!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Mon Oct 4, 2021, 10:35 PM

2. Lock em up

Yup

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Mon Oct 4, 2021, 10:40 PM

3. And how long will that take?

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Response to bamagal62 (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 4, 2021, 10:46 PM

4. Been nine years since this one


Republicans have also made criminal contempt referrals when it was their turn in power.

They did this nine years ago, when Eric Holder had enough of their Fast & Furious nonsense:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/06/28/155928783/house-set-for-vote-on-holding-attorney-general-holder-in-contempt

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Response to bamagal62 (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 4, 2021, 11:42 PM

8. What? It's October! Of same year! Jeez. Only been 9 NINE months!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Mon Oct 4, 2021, 10:49 PM

5. Methinks this is going to be a seriously BFD.

And if you lie under oath, I think they will criminally prosecute for that as well.

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 07:58 AM

17. It's going to be very serious

Let's go Dems!

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Response to OAITW r.2.0 (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 07:58 AM

18. It's going to be very serious

Let's go Dems!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Mon Oct 4, 2021, 11:22 PM

6. Oh Snap!

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Mon Oct 4, 2021, 11:38 PM

7. So, how long will the Justice Department drag out pondering whether to prosecute...

...and, if and when they get around to prosecuting the contempt charges, how long can the people charged drag out that fight in court?

This mess can probably only be fixed by Constitutional amendment, which probably means it'll never get fixed at all.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #7)

Mon Oct 4, 2021, 11:44 PM

9. Yup!

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 12:13 AM

11. Speaking of dragging

 

Where are the subpoenas?!? We DEMAND subpoenas!!! You're never going to subpoena them!!!

{We just issues subpoenas}

So WHAT?! They're not going to show up. Where are the contempt charges?!?! You'll never charge them with contempt!!!

{Anyone who doesn't show up will be charged with contempt of Congress}

So WHAT?! You'll never enforce contempt charges!!! We DEMAND that you enforce them!

{We'll refer contempt of Congress charges to DOJ for criminal prosecution}

So WHAT?! It will only get dragged out in court. We DEMAND a constitutional amendment!




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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 02:42 AM

15. I didn't cast any doubt on the already-issued subpoenas...

…, on the likelihood that Congress will file charges for contempt as needed, or even in the idea that the DoJ will (in the fullness of time) prosecute for contempt.

My well-founded concern is the alacrity of the DoJ and how badly the courts will be abused to play for time and try to run out the clock.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 07:54 AM

16. It doesn't matter

You don’t understand how this works.

It doesn’t matter what YOU say. Someone else said something else. Therefore YOU are a hypocrite for saying something different than what someone else said.

That’s how bunker mentality works. Anyone who sees things differently from you is part of a hive mind of others who all think the same thing. So if any people among those others differ, then they are all hypocrites and goal post movers because they do not all agree on exactly the same thing.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 08:03 AM

19. Oh, and here's your answer

Last edited Tue Oct 5, 2021, 09:15 AM - Edit history (1)

Since you only got a personal attack so far, your answer is here:

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R45653


"Congress’s ability to issue and enforce its own subpoenas is essential to the legislative function
and an “indispensable ingredient of lawmaking.” That said, the prevailing enforcement
mechanisms of criminal contempt of Congress and civil enforcement, both of which rely on the
assistance and participation of the other branches of government, have certain drawbacks that
arguably limit their effectiveness in ensuring timely compliance with congressional subpoenas by
executive branch officials.
"


These referrals have been made before. Nothing has ever come of them, so there is no answer to your question. That’s why you only got a personal attack instead of an answer.

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Response to Effete Snob (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 02:07 PM

22. Which is why I'm a bit despondent about success, soon or ever

If I had my way (which I won't ever have), I'd amend the Constitution to put a strict time limit on appeals of Congressional subpoenas, force courts to take any appeals on a speedy emergency basis, and give Congress its own small police force to arrest and detain those who evade subpoenas, and to confiscate subpoenaed evidence.

To prevent abuse of this power members of Congress would be subject to criminal consequences for abusing their subpoena power, but THAT would be the battle that could be allowed to drag out in court for months or years. In the meantime benefit of the doubt goes to Congress, testimony and evidence would come first, with no more delay than a month, and with any disputes and possible penalties wrapped up later.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #22)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 02:22 PM

23. The OP is a little misleading, though


The actual article has the chairman saying to reporters:

"The committee will probably for those who don’t agree to come in voluntarily..."

The word "probably" got lost somewhere on the way to DU, and it's not as if the committee has discusses, let alone resolved, to do so.

It's really just a hypothetical at this point.

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Response to Effete Snob (Reply #23)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 03:37 PM

24. Sad. Even more lame. n/t

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 01:10 AM

12. bet one referral gets within a 24 hr pick-up just to get the ball rolling !

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Response to monkeyman1 (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 01:38 AM

13. Yes. I'm sure they have already coordinated strategy with DOJ and have this all gamed out

 

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 01:47 AM

14. once they start getting picked up , maybe it might get their attention !

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 09:10 AM

20. You're "sure" of this


Wow, you must have some really good sources of information, in order to be sure.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Tue Oct 5, 2021, 09:37 AM

21. Interesting thread.

And very revealing.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Oct 8, 2021, 11:28 AM

25. In case you missed it...

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