We need to have an honest discussion about the obesity epidemic in the US--especially kids

[crimycarny]

There was a headline today regarding a 10-year old girl, Theresa Sperry, who died of COVID after only 5 days. The article stated that Theresa was a healthy child with no underlying conditions. I have to admit one of my first thoughts was "but was she obese"? Most of the younger children I've read about who are dying from COVID are obese. It's an epidemic but I don't feel like we talk about it enough because it goes in the category of "fat-shaming". If someone has a heart condition, is it "heart health shaming"? If someone is immunosuppressed is it "immunosuppression shaming"?

When I was growing up there would be maybe 1 overweight child in my class. Now it seems to be at least 50%.

I know a lot of this has to do with kids staying indoors and playing on their smartphones, online games, laptops versus years ago when kids would be outside playing all day until they heard their parents calling them home for dinner. Eating healthy is expensive, getting kids to exercise isn't as easy as it sounds--organized sports is one way but it's not always accessible or affordable.

I don't know what the answer is but it needs to be addressed as these kids are being set up for a lifetime of health issues. Michelle Obama tried, but there needs to be a much larger and concerted effort if we're going to turn things around.

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/health/vp-nw-coronavirus-teresa-sperry-suffolk-20211004-75dz3bppmrb7zi467vbjyt7gji-story.html

[jimfields33]

1. I'd not guess obese at all.

The poor girl died and the last thing we should discuss is her looks.

[cinematicdiversions]

100. No-one is discussing her looks. They are discussing her health.

The fact you feel that obesity is about looks is the heart of the reason so many children and adults needlessly die prematurely. (Not to mention the crippling pain and other health issues related to obesity).

We need to get past the superficial and admit that being obese is an unhealthy state that requires correction.. It is not about fashion or looks.

[jimfields33]

107. Actually stupid corona killed her.

She’d be alive today without that horrid virus.

[crimycarny]

115. She'd also most likely be alive if she didn't have a big risk factor

Which is obesity. Obesity is one of the biggest risk factors for severe COVID in kids. Pediatricians estimate 80% of children hospitalized are obese.

So what about the next virus, or the next? Do we keep kids in a hazmat suit so they never get sick or do we help them get healthy?? I prefer to help kids get healthy so they don’t have to die early.

Return physical fitness classes back to schools. Provide healthy lunches versus the starchy crap provided currently. Invest in our kids health.

[jimfields33]

120. Oh goodness. The poor family.

This is the last thing they need. Stunned!!!!!

[DeeNice]

165. OP is not suggesting targeting this bereft family.

They are talking about opening a substantive discussion about what is in and of itself a continually worsening national health crisis.

[obamanut2012]

184. I'm also just shocked

[Blue_true]

153. If you look at the pictures of kids that have died from COVID,

one common factor is all of them looked obese.

It is not an issue of looks, it is an issue of health.

[Phoenix61]

2. Part of the issue is food deserts.

Areas where grocery shopping is done at the Dollar General. Eating healthy can be done on a budget but it takes cooking from scratch and access to fresh vegetables. I saw a special on tv years ago and a cardiologist was saying he was seeing people in their 30’s with hearts of 70 year olds. He was very concerned about the trend of younger and younger people have cardiovascular disease.

[malaise]

30. It is both diet and lack of exercise

We ate a lot of sugar as kids(my mother and dad's oldest sister made great deserts- cookies, cakes, pastry and ice-cream) but we also ran up and down both our yard and the neighborhood. We played lots of sports, climbed fruit trees and had a great time outdoors.
This pandemic has made it worse for the kids - they are at home eating snacks and not exercising enough.
One more thing - when we were kids dad would bring home a huge bar of Cadbury's chocolate and everyone got some of it - now each child eats a whole bar of chocolate.

[crimycarny]

49. High fructose corn syrup is the worst

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100322121115.htm

We ate a lot of sugar as kids too, but that was before high fructose corn syrup which is so much worse for you. As you wrote we also ran all over the neighborhood for hours.

And sizes have gotten way bigger. Remember the movie "Super Size Me"? That was an eye-opener. The guy who was eating that diet had to stop as his kidneys were being severely affected.

[malaise]

59. Valid point

and of course nearly all of the the goodies we ate were home made without all that really unhealthy stuff.

[Aristus]

116. His liver suffered much worse.

He consumed so much High Fructose Corn Syrup in the form of Super Size soda that he contracted hepatic steatosis, or fatty liver disease. Fortunately, the condition is reversible if one cuts off the offending agent. The liver is incredibly good at recovering from disease.

The good news is that, since 2010, consumption of High Fructose Corn Syrup has decreased dramatically, probably because medical providers like me are telling our patients how bad it is for them.

[Happy Hoosier]

136. Plain ole sucrose has almost as much fructose.

Eating added sugar is terrible for you, period. Yes, we can metabolize it, and we can do it fine for a while. But in the 70’s we began replacing healthy fats in food with sugar. All because of Ansel Key’s bullshit idea that fats cause heart disease. They do not. At least fats other than oxidized Omega-6’s.

[crimycarny]

139. Remember "oleo"?

Thankfully I never substituted margarine for butter. Not so much for health reasons, even though that was the thinking at the time, more because I thought margarine tasted horrible. I also never stopped eating eggs.

Hoosier? I grew up in Speedway.

[Happy Hoosier]

160. Used margarine for YEARS

Ate low fat... got fat anyway!

Back to using good ole (incredibly delicious butter now). Eating low carb and (almost) no added sugar and my health is vastly improved!
I've been to Speedway many times. I live up in Muncie!

[crimycarny]

180. Ball U!

My brother graduated from Ball State. Got a ton of “Ball U” tshirts, etc.

Yep, all the “Low fat” food with whatever artificial stuff they put in is horrible, plus it’s just awful for your body in general.

[Happy Hoosier]

182. Go Cardinals!

My wife is a professor there!

[Blue_true]

155. You have a point.

Excess sugar, whether it be sucrose, honey, fructose, glucose can lead to skin surface ailments in people. If the skin surface is freaking out, imagine what is happening inside.

Something interesting that I learned. The difference between honey and sucrose is that glucose and fructose in honey are not bonded to each other predominantly. Sucrose is a complex molecule formed when glucose and fructose combines. The bond in sucrose may cause the body to metabolize it differently from honey or high fructose corn syrup.

[Happy Hoosier]

161. I've been trying to learn as much about sugar as I can...

The current emerging consensus seems to be that too much of sugar of any kind is bad, but fructose is the worst because the body just basically turns it into fatty deposits in the liver if it can't eliminate it.

Ugh. I remember my Mom (who was a diabetic) eat "frookies" (cookies sweetened with fructose) thinking they were good for her because it didn;t raise her blood sugar.... while all the while it was killing her liver.

[Blue_true]

170. Wow.

My Mom was diabetic also. Like yours, she ate the early “diabetic” food, which honestly was trash when compared to what is available today.

I try to forgo sweets (all forms) as much as possible and cook from scratch. I could get better on cooking from scratch, but as things are, I don’t use sweetened, processed food much at all. I do have sweets binges, but I keep them to a day or two every 2-3 months. Our bodies do need sugar, just not nearly as much as the average person consumes.

[Happy Hoosier]

183. BTW, you don't need to consume sugar.

Your liver is perfectly capable of creating sugar from proteins and fats. In fact, if you consume ZERO carbohydrates, you will STILL have a basal blood sugar level because your liver produces it in a process called gluconeogenesis.

When I get a hankerin' for sweet, I use Erythritol.

[canetoad]

104. I don't agree with the food deserts theory

It's a nutritional knowledge desert.

I didn't think so at the time, but being born 9 years after the end of WW2, meant my parents, grandparents all lived with rationing and make-do. (I was born in the UK)

As I grew up, there was no such thing as comfort food. We got what my parents could afford. (And liked it )

[Phoenix61]

108. You may not agree but it's the reality for a lot of

people. Wal-mart, Dollar General, and Family Dollar didn’t exist when your grew up. Small, private grocery stores did. Your parents and grandparents had access to fresh food. The more urban an area is the more likely it’s a food desert.

[Phoenix61]

177. I don't believe I mentioned anything about

urban or rural. Urban areas tend to have public transportation while rural areas rarely do.

[cinematicdiversions]

196. Food desert though is really an incorrect term

Realities people have a transportation issue not a food desert issue. Nobody is claiming that rich people in Weston Connecticut live in a food desert even if they're all tens of miles away from the nearest grocery store.

Food desert simply about people who don't have proper transportation to a grocery store.

Again the focus needs to be on transportation issues not food supply issues.

[Phoenix61]

199. I can't imagine hauling groceries for a family of

four on public transport, can you?

[crimycarny]

118. That's a very good point

So much of the obesity has a link to poverty. In my nice little suburban bubble I’ve got 5 grocery stores within a 3 mile radius. Easy for me to dash to the grocery store and grab as many fruits and veggies as I want. Not so in many areas. The closet place to get food is a 7-11 or dollar store.

Access to healthy food is not the same for everyone. And that is why those accusing me of fat shaming or blaming those kids who are obese are wrong. I GET that the solution isn’t easy and it’s not the same for everyone. It’s not a level playing field...not even close.

[Bettie]

3. So, what's your plan

shame the fat kids until they comply with your aesthetic of what a healthy kid looks like?

Or, shame their parents because their child doesn't meet your standards of "health" which really means "do they look fat to me"?

Take kids away from their parents because you don't think they are healthy simply by looking at them?

You can not tell someone's health status simply by looking at them. If the girl's doctor said she was healthy, she probably was.

Oh, I'm sure our society is moving toward all of these because you know, can't let people think for a second that they are ever good enough, unless they are thin...I mean, imagine, if fatties thought they deserved to be treated like human beings! The horror!

You know what will make kids fat? Dieting.

This is fat shaming.

[Phoenix61]

12. Childhood obesity is a serious health issue

for too many children.
“Until recently, young children and teens almost never got type 2 diabetes, which is why it used to be called adult-onset diabetes. Now, about one-third of American youth are overweight, a problem closely related to the increase in kids with type 2 diabetes, some as young as 10 years old.”
https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/prevent-type-2/type-2-kids.html

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/childhood.html
Children who live in areas that are food deserts, that lack safe outdoor recreation opportunities, that attend schools that limit recess and PE are at increased risk of obesity. No big surprise those environments are more likely in areas that have high rates of poverty. Just one more way poverty created health problems.

[Happy Hoosier]

138. Reminder: fat does not cause diebetes.

Hyperinsulinanemia does…. Caused by too many carbs in our diet… particularly sugar and refined carbs.

[Phoenix61]

144. Apparently not.

“While hyperinsulinemia is often seen in people with early stage type 2 diabetes mellitus, it is not the cause of the condition and is only one symptom of the disease. “

[Happy Hoosier]

147. I doubt that conclusion. So do a lot of experts.

What is their basis for that argument? What metabolic process do they propose?

Note that insulin levels drop in diabetics as the disease progresses because the pancreas is unable to produce enough insulin to control the glucose because the beta cells are “burned out.” Severe type ii diabetics may have low or even no insulin, but they all started with very high insulin before control of the glucose failed.

I’ll just say my personal experience convinces me… when I was diagnosed, my insulin levels were still high but falling. After a year of dietary intervention, my blood sugar levels and insulin response are normal. I am no linger insulin resistant.

[Tree Lady]

16. My plan would be take sugar out of all

Packaged meat, and have a low level that can be added to everything else.

[Blue_true]

156. How about people controlling how much sugar they consume?

Food without sugar and salt is nasty. Herbs alone simply don’t cut it.

The problem today is that everything is super sized. Try to find one of the old sized chip bags in a supermarket today. Everything is at least 3 times as large as it used to be.

I am an absolute sugar fiend. A person lays something sweet in front of me, I am going to eat a lot of it. That is why I regulate how much sweets that I buy for my home.

[crimycarny]

23. thank you for proving my point

That it's impossible to have an honest discussion about this without being accused of "fat-shaming".

Where in my post did I say we should fat shame? Where in my post did I say ANYTHING about taking kids away from their parents. Where in my post did I say anything about telling kids there aren't good enough unless they are thin? Where did I say ANYTHING about dieting? Dieting doesn't work, it just makes you hungrier and thinking about food all the time. Exercise and eating healthier foods is the only way but, as I wrote in my post, our current societal norms make that hard.

Your response was defensive, offensive, and WAY over the top. And that's why the epidemic will never end.

1) I don't blame the kids or the parents. As I said in my post, eating healthy is expensive. Not just buying the food but having the time to prepare it. Our lives are so busy due to it being almost a necessity now for both parents to work in order to afford housing and food that it's simply cheaper and easier to eat fast food or processed food.

2) Exercise. Only 8% of schools have a physical fitness program now. It used to be a requirement, now it's gone out the door. I can only assume budget cuts.

Obesity is listed as one of the top risks for dying or getting severe COVID. It's due to the fact that COVID enters human cells through ACE2 receptors which are very prevalent in subcutaneous fat. So stating that most kids who are dying from COVID are obese isn't some sort of insult, it's what doctors are noticing as well.

But outside of COVID, kids are developing Diabetes Type II at very young ages. We need to make it easier for families to eat healthy and we need to bring exercise program back into school.

[LanternWaste]

51. It's not difficult to separate the honest discussions from the less-than-honest.

See? You just proved a point too! (just to point out the petulant absurdity of that particular fallacy).

Also, learn the difference between a proof and evidence.

[crimycarny]

60. Not sure of your point

Not sure what you were referring to when you said to "learn the difference between proof and evidence?" What were you referring to?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

55. .

Exercise and eating healthier foods is the only way

Those things do make people healthier. But they don't necessarily make people thinner. So, which is more important?

[jimfields33]

110. I think had you started a generic thread on childhood obesity,

It would have been a great discussion. But to point out a young Hispanic girl who is not skinny and died was not the right way to go. Just my opinion.

[crimycarny]

121. I didn't even know she was Hispanic

Not that it matters but all I saw was a sweet young girl who died way too early. And that is what prompted me to post.

I disagree that having a “generic discussion” would have been been a great discussion because it would have been a dispassionate and abstract discussion with no sense of urgency for change.

Our kids are going to suffer if we don’t try to make changes to help them be healthy a priority. And to have that discussion after some precious 10-year old died seems like the right time to me.

(Also, I said nothing about the girl needing to be “skinny”. That’s your take, not mine)

[jimfields33]

122. Bottom line is you did start a discussion so that is good.

[Happy Hoosier]

148. Treat the cause of Type II...

Fat does not cause diabetes. Losing weight can help with diabetes, but not because of the fat, but because of the dietary intervention.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

79. Yep

I agree with you.
Dieting made me fat,psych meds like thorazine made me fat.
Being abused during gym class made me fat. Trauma made me fat. The chemical stew of pollution everywhere made me fat.

There are so many things in this world can make you fat that has nothing to do with willpower and choice.

I say love the body you have,because life tomorrow is not a given.

[Bettie]

98. And don't you wonder

why, when they say, "that girl is naturally thin!" there is never, ever anyone who figures that people can be naturally larger than average as well?

It just makes me so angry.

Gym class abuse: check, I'm not a hyper coordinated person and boy howdy did gym teachers let me know that, from day one of school. It caused me to detest physical activity, until I discovered dancing.

I am tall, have a large frame, was never going to be a tiny slip of a thing, but people kept telling me I was fat and needed to diet. So I did, from the time I was about 12 until about 35. In that time, I successfully dieted myself up from a size 16 to a much larger size.

But, was really triggered my anger was that this person looked at one photo of a 5th grade girl who is dead and basically said it is her fault because that person thinks she is too fat to have survived. One. Photo and somehow they "knew" that the kid was dead because of course, it couldn't be that she was the kid who walked the sick kids to the office as has been reported.

I am so tired after all these years of so many equating worth to weight...the less you weigh, the more you're worth.

That is bullshit.

Thanks for understanding, Panther.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

99. I went through some

Of the same shit you went through.

Gym at school and the years of torment it was has made me so self conscious that I detest exercise. It gives me major anxiety.

It doesn't help when Im walking outside trying to move that

Some assholes yell shit from thier cars
about my looks, weight and my gender. (I am transgender
/nonbinary
Even when I had not had the surgery yet I tried desperately to hide the chest,but dispite that some asshole would yell out from a car,"loookit them juuuuggss." I so wanted to kick that shitheads ass. They just zoomed away.

Then they throw shit from thier cars in my direction.

I hate to sweat. I hate when my skin touches my skin when I get hot.
I dispise hot weather and humidity. I just cant stand living in this body.

I hate this baggy loose skin flap that hangs off my waist from the weight loss,I wish I could cut it off,like now.

Just typing about this makes me feel like I want to die.

Its a feeling that feels bad I am not in any danger ok.

I'm gonna bring this up in therapy.

[Bettie]

109. I am so sorry this brought up those feelings

I wish I could give you a hug.

I also wish that people would just let others live their lives without constant pressure to conform to whatever arbitrary thing society has decided is the right thing at any given moment.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

158. Im glad you brought it up

All it means is I got body issues.

And yeah they hurt tremendously.

Its not your fault it triggered me. You had no clue I had triggers about it..
I actually appreciated what you said,because its the truth.

And I got a topic to bring up in therapy.
🐈

[crimycarny]

126. I NEVER said it was her fault!

Bullshit. Your anger and resentment are ascribing motives to me.

Pediatrician across the country are saying that 80% of kids dying from COVID are obese. CDC has been seeing an alarming upward trend in diabetes in younger and younger people. It’s a fact so what are we going to do about it to help? THAT is what my post was about.

You wrote you detested physical exercise until you discovered dancing. How would it be if public schools could offer a variety of choices for physical fitness including things like dancing? That way kids don’t have to be judged on the same activity. I run, but I’m as slow as molasses. I couldn’t pass the Presidential fitness test because of my slowness and it was tough seeing other kids breeze through it. I loved gymnastics but my parents couldn’t afford classes and they didn’t offer it in school. Imagine if they did? That’s the sort of thing I’m talking about.

I think the larger problem is lack of activity. I’ve gone on the record in multiple replies that dieting does not work (IMO).

[Bettie]

130. Leaving for a camping trip

but, maybe just oh, I don't know, not assume her health status based on ONE photograph.

You know nothing about her health, only that she doesn't match up to your aesthetic.

[crimycarny]

133. Again, stop projecting

Nope, wrong again. Your anger and resentment are clouding your ability to have a conversation. You are the one talking about an ideal appearance, not me. Based on what you relayed about your past trauma I can only assume you think everyone thinks the same as your tormentors.

Looking at the photo, Theresa was obese. Is it her fault? No. Does that mean she was not as good as someone who is thin? No. In fact she seemed like a remarkably kind little girl.

When you see pictures of starving children do you think “Well, I don’t REALLY know if they are that thin because they aren’t getting enough food. Also, I’m not going to judge their appearance based on some idealistic aesthetic.” Or do you think “I want to help that child?” Do you think “How awful that her parents aren’t feeding her enough?” Or do you think it’s not the parents fault and it’s a larger problem that you’d like to help?

If it’s the latter then why is it any different seeing an obviously obese child? I don’t blame the child, I don’t blame the parents, and I don’t think the child needs to confirm to some ideal. I see a much bigger problem that we need to address.

[crimycarny]

131. Yes, love the body you have

Some or misinterpreting my post as being about appearance. That is not at all what I mean. As I wrote previously I became anorexic when my fat phobic father made a comment about my 15-year old body developing a “tummy”. And I too was abused (not by my dad, a stranger). I was put on Prozac which made me gain a shit ton of weight and also caused seizures. Fun times.

What saved me was exercise. And it had nothing to do with exercise making me “skinny”, in fact running helped me eat and gain weight. The exercise made me feel more in control, made me feel better mentally and physically, and helped me maintain a healthy weight for me which was not some super skinny model.

Kids need outlets to help them take care of themselves mentally and physically. Making it easier for them to engage in physical activity is an important first step. How do we get there, I don’t know. Bringing Phys-Ed back to schools could help but we really need to INVEST in that. Don’t make it a “one size fits all” because you’ll end up with bullying. Give options, and don’t hire psychotic gym instructors either, which all of mine seemed to be.

[obamanut2012]

185. People are poor or having to work multiple jobs

People work FT and cannot afford health and dental for themselves or their kids. Low-nutrition food, including soda, is cheap and filling. Produce is not. Lean meat isn't. Good bread isn't. oatmeal is, but you cannot only eat oatmeal.

People, including on this board, have no idea of their privilege where food and health is concerned.

[msongs]

4. watch street films from the early 1900's and there's very few obese ppl, and by street

films I mean ones where ppl set up cameras on the street and showed passers-by, not hollywood type scripted films.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. And people live longer now. Amazing!

[msongs]

13. yes, overall medical care for all conditions has improved greatly. penicillin anyone? nt

[inwiththenew]

124. 1900s? Go look at film from the 1980s

I was watching on video about malls a couple months back and there was video footage of shoppers in the various malls during the mid 80s. This was like 1985 or somewhere around there. I was immediately struck with the fact that there were no obese people. Maybe a few overweight but nothing like what you see now.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. Everything You Know About Obesity is Wrong

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/everything-you-know-about-obesity-is-wrong/

About 40 years ago, Americans started getting much larger. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, nearly 80 percent of adults and about one-third of children now meet the clinical definition of overweight or obese. More Americans live with “extreme obesity“ than with breast cancer, Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s and HIV put together.

And the medical community’s primary response to this shift has been to blame fat people for being fat. Obesity, we are told, is a personal failing that strains our health care system, shrinks our GDP and saps our military strength. It is also an excuse to bully fat people in one sentence and then inform them in the next that you are doing it for their own good. That’s why the fear of becoming fat, or staying that way, drives Americans to spend more on dieting every year than we spend on video games or movies. Forty-five percent of adults say they’re preoccupied with their weight some or all of the time—an 11-point rise since 1990. Nearly half of 3- to 6- year old girls say they worry about being fat.

(snip)

The second big lesson the medical establishment has learned and rejected over and over again is that weight and health are not perfect synonyms. Yes, nearly every population-level study finds that fat people have worse cardiovascular health than thin people. But individuals are not averages: Studies have found that anywhere from one-third to three-quarters of people classified as obese are metabolically healthy. They show no signs of elevated blood pressure, insulin resistance or high cholesterol. Meanwhile, about a quarter of non-overweight people are what epidemiologists call “the lean unhealthy.” A 2016 study that followed participants for an average of 19 years found that unfit skinny people were twice as likely to get diabetes as fit fat people. Habits, no matter your size, are what really matter. Dozens of indicators, from vegetable consumption to regular exercise to grip strength, provide a better snapshot of someone’s health than looking at her from across a room.

The terrible irony is that for 60 years, we’ve approached the obesity epidemic like a fad dieter: If we just try the exact same thing one more time, we'll get a different result. And so it’s time for a paradigm shift. We’re not going to become a skinnier country. But we still have a chance to become a healthier one.

[crimycarny]

33. Right back at you...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6887808/

Yes, you can be "overweight" and be fit. Notice the word "fit". Even the article you posted mentions "unfit skinny people".

Stating that people who are overweight can be fit doesn't negate the fact that we have an obesity problem. Maybe people would be more comfortable with the term "fitness" problem (which is absolutely true). Portions of food are bigger, soda and so many foods are made with high fructose corn syrup, our schools have gotten rid of most physical fitness program (only 8% of schools have physical fitness requirements now). And participating in organized sports has become astronomically expensive.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

38. BMI is junk science, but okay!

[crimycarny]

44. ok, so the NIH lied then

And all studies that show an alarming trend in severe obesity are lying.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

50. I mean...if you use a junk science ruler to measure something, why should I care what your findings

are?

[crimycarny]

56. So you don't think the rise in diabetes is real then?

https://consumer.healthday.com/encyclopedia/diabetes-13/misc-diabetes-news-181/type-2-diabetes-and-kids-the-growing-epidemic-644152.html

https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/news/20210825/young-people-diabetes-rising

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0824-youth-diabetes.html

Is the CDC junk science?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

64. I'm sure it is, but it's more of a result of nutrition and activity than BMI.

Recently, some researchers are starting to posit that Type 2 causes kids to gain weight, and not vice versa.

[CrackityJones75]

105. Been T2 Diabetic for 18 years.

Been T2 Diabetic for 18 years. I have never been fat. Certainly never obese.

Diabetes has fuck all to do with being fat to begin with in my case. I have known a lot of people who got fat post T2 diagnosis. I have known a lot of people who were fat when they got diagnosed as well. Many if not all weren’t always “Fat”.

I am 5’ 10.5” I weigh 168 lbs. And I have been a T2 diabetic since 2003.

[crimycarny]

119. There is a unequivocal link between diabetes and weight

There is study after study that links the rise in diabetes (Type 1 and 2) to obesity and lack of exercise. Can you get either and not be overweight? Of course you can. It’s always been that way. But how to explain the astronomical rise in diabetes in the past several years? And in younger and younger ages? Obesity and lack of exercise.

[CrackityJones75]

123. Been diabetic for 18 years

Yer not going to tell me anything I don’t already know. You also might want to start reading some more leading edge info on diabetes. I read everything. I am not saying there isn’t a link between obesity and diabetes. One can definitely lead to the other. But that doesn’t even begin to tell the story.

I am not sure how much you read about the subject, if you are a diabetic, have had in depth years long conversations with multiple endocrinologists, nutritionists, primary care teams, diabetic nurses, and a whole host of other outlets like I have but stating that there is a “link” is both a “No shit?” statement and a complete over simplification worthy of a loud sigh and a facepalm. Maybe you are an expert on the subject I don’t know, but honestly…. Why isn’t every fat person a diabetic? Why are there skinny diabetics? Why are some things more problematic for some diabetics than others? Why are some things less for others?

The problem of obesity (and also diabetes) is a very complex issue. Of course kids need more exercise and activity. That is again a “no shit?” statement. But again there are a LOT more factors that play i to the rise than just fat kids don’t exercise enough. Also Type1 diabetics in kids aren’t usually fat kids. Not the many I have observed. Many are otherwise completely healthy average weight (if not skinny) kids who do not put out insulin. An immune system response to the cells in the pancreas that put out insulin isn’t going to be improved by gym class. They may eventually get fat without treatment. The same can be said if Type2 diabetics who are sadly often only diagnosed after they have accumulated weight and being diabetic for a number of years. You do NOT necessarily get diabetes BECAUSE you are fat. In either case.

[crimycarny]

128. This is devolving into a conversation about diabetes

Versus the need for children to have access to things that can help them develop a healthier lifestyle. Physical activity being the most important IMO.

As for my own personal experience with diabetes. My FIL had Type 2 diabetes and died from complications which caused kidney failure. He was skinny as a rail his whole life. My husband was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes 6 years ago and was able to reduce his A1C from 13 to 6 by starting and maintaining a consistent exercise program (versus his previous exercise program of coach potato). He was probably about 40 lbs overweight at diagnosis. Close to the same weight now but the exercise seems to be key for him keeping his A1C down. All 5 of his sisters have Type 2 diabetes, all are sedentary and overweight, one sister is in stage 4 kidney failure (early 40’s). My cousin was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes at age 16, she is now late 60’s. She recently had to have her foot amputated due to complications after years of fighting her battle with diabetes. She will most likely lose her other foot in the near future. She is not, and never has been, overweight.

So, yeah, I have some experience with diabetes and I know it’s complicated and not solely about weight. That was not my point about kids and obesity. Diabetes is just one of the risks associated with sedentary and obesity. Heart disease, high blood pressure are two others. You can also have heart disease or high blood pressure and not be obese. That doesn’t negate the fact that maintaining an active lifestyle and a healthy weight (note I do not say a “skinny” weight) will reduce your risks of all of those 3 assuming no genetic or other factors.

[Happy Hoosier]

181. There is also an unequivocal link between bleeding and cuts

That doesn't mean bleeding causes cuts.

We need to look at the biochemical mechanisms.

Obesity and diabetes have the same root cause in most people: too much insulin. Insulin doesn't just tell cells to accept glucose, it also inhibits lipolysis (the breaking down of fatty acids for energy), and inhibits the uptake of leptin, the hormone that tells you are full.

Constant high levels of insulin mean that cells become insulin resistant and the pancreas begins to "burn out," being unable to produce sufficient insulin to control blood glucose. This is why very serious T2 diabetics can have unexplained weight loss. As their pancreas, insulin levels drop and their body can actually begin lipolysis. But by the time you get there, your pancreas is in a bad way.

Lots of studies now show that diets which lower insulin levels lead to effective long term weight loss, even without ANY additional exercise, and even when the dietary change is not aimed at weight loss, but diabetes control and reversal.

I'm an example of this.

[Happy Hoosier]

179. And I think this is almost 100% correct

High insulin levels make weight gain SO easy, and carb-rich diets, especially those lacking fiber, encourage overconsumption.

[Happy Hoosier]

168. Don't mistake correlation for causation

Remember that most physicians are clinicians.... they apply research to clinical practice. The NIH is packed with physicians.

Nutrition and diet science is notoriously hard and much of the data is poor quality observational data. Most of the evidence is for correlation, rather than the root cause. But there IS root cause data out there, and it is swimming against a 50-year tide of common paradigms.... many of which are unsupported by direct evidence, and without even a plausible biochemical mechanism. We need to look at the work of metabolic researchers to really start to understand this. There is a large body of evidence building, with more every year.

[obamanut2012]

186. BMI is literally junk science

You have elite athletes, probably 15% BF, who are considered OBESE per their BMI.

[Happy Hoosier]

149. Obesity is only a problem....

… when accompanied by chronic disease. We need to treat the actual disease… then in many cases (my own for example) the weight will resolve itself. And if a person is fat and metabolically healthy? Then it is not am issue.

[Zeitghost]

6. Unfortunately

Nobody wants to have that discussion. It's easy to point at "them" for not getting vaxed or not wearing masks. It's a lot harder to look at all of us on both sides and point out that the obese are taking up a lot of much needed health care resources and are contributing to the death tolls at a much higher rate. It's been a huge issue for decades and COVID made it much, much worse.

As you mentioned, a girl with a clearly visible, serious health issue is called healthy by the media that is too afraid to speak the truth. That poor girl was killed just as much, if not more, by the actions of her parents/guardians than by anything else and we can talk about that in a manner that doesn't shame the child.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. Weight is not a reliable indicator of health.

[Zeitghost]

10. You can spin it how you want

I'm among those who need to lose 20 pounds but is otherwise healthy, I understand those stats.

If you are 40, 50, 60, 100 etc. pounds overweight, as millions of Americans are it is absolutely a reliable indicator of poor health.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. Yeah, it's not spin.

Correlation is not causation. Carrying extra weight can certainly cause some issues -- stress on joints, for example. But it is not an indicator of someone's metabolic health.

[Ms. Toad]

17. Really.

I just got done riding 150 miles on my bike over 2 days.

Here I am on day 2, my 65th birthday, obese, at roughly mile 110



My (unmedicated) blood pressure is 114/60, and I have no calcification of my arteries. I do have two kinds of cancer (breast - the 5th in 4 generations, so hereditory), and sarcoma (unknown cause; strikes all ages, weights, gender, etc)

I'm at least 40 lbs overweight, and the only health issue I have that is nominally related to weight is diabetes. But it's the same diabetes that my skinny-as-a-rail grandfather passed on to every single descendant who is my age or older - regardless of weight (the split among descendants is about 50-50 overweight v. skinny-as-a-rail).

[Casady1]

34. How many hours did it take you to ride

75 miles? Also how hilly?

[Ms. Toad]

65. Ride time was roughly 14 hours

On my road bike, on a ride of this length, my average speed was betwen 13 and 14 mph (over a mixture of hilly and flat terrrain).

This year, my average speed on Day 1 - 10.14 mph; Day 2 - 10.6 mph average. I was hoping for 11+ day 2, but I was babying a sore achilles tendon.

According to my computer, roughly half of the miles were uphill, the remainder were downhill. Average uphill grade on day 1 was around 3%, about half that on day 2 (although my computer ate some of the grade data for day 2). So rolling hills the first day for part of the ride, and pretty flat the second day.

On my 15 mile commute to work I've got some half-mile long, 5% plus grades. Roughly the same average speed (10.21 mph), but with more variation in max/min speeds.

I lost 3-4 mph in 2012 when I had to switch to a recumbent with a smaller wheel diameter (less distance per stroke). The switch was due to vertigo in 2012-13 which made it unsafe for me to ride on the road without being able to stop with both feet flat on the ground.

[crimycarny]

39. My husband "cured" his diabetes by exercising--he is still "technically" overweight

Everyone is going off the deep end about my post being meant to fat shame. If we can't talk about it honestly then we'll never address it.

What you say is absolutely correct, it's far more important to exercise than worry about weight as the sole indicator of health.

My husband was one of those people who, in his youth, could eat whatever he wanted and never gain weight. He had the worst diet ever, if I had eaten the way he did I'd be 800 lbs. Eventually, though it caught up to him.

I made him go get a physical about 6 years ago and his A1C was 13! The doctor wanted him on insulin immediately. He refused and started exercising. He hated it at first but eventually came to realize how much better he felt after. After just 5 months his A1C was down to 6. He is still the same weight as when he was when diagnosed with diabetes, but the exercise is keeping his blood sugar in check.

But---we are in a situation where he can afford both the time and $$ it takes to exercise (got a nice road bike, we live in a safe area, yada yada yada). Not everyone is in that situation and that's what I'm saying we need to change.

[Ms. Toad]

80. Exercising has no impact on mine.

What does impact it (keeps it under control) is limiting carb intake. I can consume 21 net carbs in a 2-hour period (regardless of how much I weigh) and keep my A1C between 5.7 ("normal&quot and 6.1 (pre-diabetes).

It doesn't cure it - it's just a management tool.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

87. I do carb management too

It keeps my blood sugar levels in the 80's and 90's for most of the time.dont excersize much because of trauma growing up around execise and triggers.

Because of the stress my blood sugar raises because of cortisol.

My family has a streak of diabeties in it..

But I manage it.

[Ms. Toad]

97. Mine raises due to stress, as well.

I had to fire my first breast cancer team because they elevated both my blood pressure and blood glucose.

[crimycarny]

137. Ugh..my husband lives on carbs

I’ve tried to get him to limit his carbs but he has a sweet tooth. I’m just grateful that in his case he can control his A1C with exercise. I’d be pulling my hair out otherwise.

When I made him get tested for diabetes he was super annoyed with me and thought I was crazy. But I saw the signs. He was thirsty all the time, he couldn’t sit through a movie without having to get up to go pee. And headaches, backaches, fatigue.

After he was tested the doctor wanted him to come in for the results. He was convinced it was all a waste of time and he was fine. On the way to the doctor he drank a 16 ounce can of (regular) coke, ate 6 mini chocolate donuts, and ate a snack size bag of potatoes chips. This was a typical in-between meal “snack”. When he found out his A1C was 13 he was shocked. He went from being annoyed with me when he left to walking in the door and telling me he was going to update his will. I told him it wasn’t a death sentence, just a warning sign for change.

Anyway, it was the shock he needed and he immediately started exercising that day. Started walking and could barely make 1 mile. Built up to 5 miles. Graduated to bike riding. He is so much healthier today than he was 20 years ago! And happier too.

[Ms. Toad]

146. Yay!

Mine's never been that high (I know it's never been above 8, the highest I recall is 7.3). I had none of the classic symptoms - but I can now tell when my blood glucose is approaching 140 by how alert I am. It's subtle enough that I never would have caught it, but for diagnosis and then excessively testing and tracking in the 1st year post diagnosis.

[Casady1]

20. It is amazing

How people will justify weight.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. Almost as amazing as how people want to vilify it.

[Zeitghost]

27. Indeed

Last edited Tue Oct 5, 2021, 10:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Despite a countless number of published medical studies that show losing weight leading to better health outcomes. It's (almost?) as crazy as the anti vaxxers and their arguments are just as silly.

What does science know: "My super skinny uncle died of a heart attack"
What does science know: "I'm 5'10" 275 and my blood pressure is perfect"
What does science know: "My vaccinated grandpa died of COVID"
What does science know: "My unvaxed buddy barely had the sniffles"

I really see little difference between the two.

[Celerity]

69. +1

(and this is pre pandemic, where people put on even more weight)



https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-02-27/us-obesity-rate-passes-40-percent







The Pandemic Has Worsened the U.S. Obesity Epidemic

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2021-09-15/the-pandemic-has-worsened-americas-obesity-epidemic-report-finds

[Happy Hoosier]

169. Welll... maybe..... but not always?

According to the work work of people like Dr. Robert Lustig, about 80% of obese people are metabolically unhealthy. OTOH, about 40% of "normal" weight people are metabolically unhealthy. As he puts it, there are more metabolically unhealthy skinny people than metabolically unhealthy fat people. So weight on it's own is not the issue.

We have to look deeper than symptoms towards root causes that can be acted upon. Fortunately, people like Lustig are doing that. We just need clinicians to listen.

[Casady1]

25. One thing you don't see

Are really fat people living into their eighties

[WhiskeyGrinder]

28. I've seen quite a few, but of course anecdotes aren't data.

[Casady1]

32. The other thing you don't

See is really tall old people. The cut off is 6’3”. After that height you also have a shorter life. Something to do with the heart and size. Most of the time it is short skinny people living a longer life.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. We should really do something about tall people.

[Casady1]

36. Just saying

It is weird. You also see it in basketball players. The really tall ones wear out faster during the games and need more rest.

[obamanut2012]

187. Jesus, Whiskey, this thread

I wrote a huge post full of actual medical info on this, and said fuck it. I will leave you to soldier on.

JFC this biard nowadays.

[Sapient Donkey]

142. My grandpa was a big fat guy who lived into his mid-80's.

I don't think he would have argued that he was healthy, though. I don't think he drank or smoked. At least not that I can remember.

[forthemiddle]

125. It's not an indicator of health

But it is a scientifically proven co-morbidity of Covid, which is what this conversation stemmed from.
I am 50 pounds overweight, and I am pretty fit(I walk daily, ride bike, and go to the gym) but I’m not denying that if I get Covid, I could be in a lot more trouble, than if I was thin.
I think people are being hypersensitive, and unfair to the poster. There is no doubting the fact that children are heavier than they were 40 years ago. The question is what, should be done?

[DET]

42. We Need To Do Better

That girl never had a chance. Her parents are huge; the father appears to be around 400 pounds. Don’t think I’m going out on a limb to speculate that they are not healthy. I’m guessing that there is not a lot of healthy food in that household. The mother is a school teacher, so they aren’t uneducated and they probably are not poor.

We are too fat as a nation, and our kids are too fat. There are a lot of reasons for that, not all of which are within our control, but we need to take responsibility for this situation and do something about it.

[crimycarny]

53. Yes--some of the responses here are what I expected

The knee-jerk reaction is to call those bringing up this issue "fat shamers".

Kids aren't just overweight, now we're seeing many who are obese. Do I blame the kids? Of course not. Do I think they are "lazy", no.

But somehow we need to be able to acknowledge this as an issue so that we can address it. Bring physical exercise back to the forefront in schools. Make it easier (and cheaper) to eat fruits, vegetables, whole grains, etc.

[Johnny2X2X]

127. Agree with you, no one will discuss it

In general obesity is a health problem, but we can't even agree on that here because people want to point out exceptions to that rule.

The fact we can't even begin a conversation about the obesity epidemic on DU, which has a lot of liberal and open minded people, tells you we are nowhere near close to even understanding the problem.

No one is fat shaming anyone by saying the obesity epidemic is something we need to address in this country.

But I don't think using the one girl as an example is productive either, she died of Covid, end of story. Doesn't mean we can't talk about childhood obesity though, just seems unnecessary in the context of covid right now though.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. Is there an obesity epidemic? Or are more people falling under made-up rules standards based on

a small population of adult males?

[enough]

11. Sorry, not possible apparently. NT

[Casady1]

15. Look at pictures of the fat man in the circus

From the old days. It’s like every guy today.

[obamanut2012]

188. Yeah, you just proved what I was wondering about some of your posts

What you just posted is 100% noit factual. At all.

[joetheman]

18. Michelle Obama already tried this. Same anti-masking parents went crazy with FOX News. nt

[Throck]

19. Pre Covid, a neighbors kid age 16 died in his computer chair.

Way too much game time. Over ate, no exercise, total basement recluse. Blood clots.

[Zeitghost]

21. A simple glance at this thread and others

Will tell you exactly why we can't talk about this issue. You have people, who despite mountains of scientific evidence that clearly shows losing weight leads to better health outcomes, deny science because they don't want to look at their own issues with an honest eye.

Can you be overweight and otherwise healthy, yes. You can also be un-vaccinated and not get seriously ill from COVID. But the numbers on both issues are crystal clear.

[Casady1]

41. People

Take it personally.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

57. Losing weight more often leads to gaining weight back and then some, actually.

If you want to look at the science.

[crimycarny]

70. Not if you lose the weight by exercise

Losing weight by dieting almost never works, I agree with that completely. The key is increasing your metabolism which diet does the opposite of.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

73. "Increasing metabolism" with exercise is a myth. You can tweak your metabolism a little bit,

and cardio exercise certainly burns calories, but it doesn't make your metabolism faster. Adding lean muscle can boost your basal metabolism, but you also need to eat more to add lean muscle.

And we still haven't cracked how to keep it off. 15 percent of people who lose 10 percent of their body weight keep it off after five years. Better to focus on building healthy habits than worry about the scale.

[obamanut2012]

190. Right?! It is literally the opposite of what the poster said

Weight is made in the kitchen.

[obamanut2012]

189. No, it is literally the opposite

You are so incorrect.

You cannot exercise bad health or weight away. That is made in the kitchen. It is CICO. Period for weight. Exercise is a tool, but it is not THE tool. You can lose weight and have a low BMI (because BMI means nothing) eating fast food and watching TV. CICO with decent foods, moderate exercise, and occasional treats will get someone to lose weight and be fit.

BMI means nothing.

Yes yes yes, I know alllll about your husband. He and six other people are an exception somehow.

[Casady1]

71. And your point is?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

77. Why bother losing? Going up and down is harder on your metabolic health than carrying extra

weight and building good habits such as daily exercise and eating the foods that are right for you.

[Casady1]

81. Generally speaking

Is it better to be reasonably fit ? Let’s say 5’10 170 lbs or 5’10 and 210 lbs?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

82. You're talking about weight, not fitness.

[Casady1]

83. Yes

Which is it? Which would you rather be. Both have medium frames.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

90. It's a ridiculous question that illustrates the issue.

Because there are *so many more* variables than weight, many of which are better indicators of health than the number on the scale.

[Casady1]

92. What would you rather be

Simple question

[WhiskeyGrinder]

95. It's not though.

[Casady1]

96. yes it is

you just don't want to answer it,

[WhiskeyGrinder]

111. I don't, because my answer isn't one number or the other.

All I know is that as someone who *is* 5'10", my fitness goals are much easier to reach when I'm closer to 210 than 170.

[cinematicdiversions]

101. They are honestly no different than the anti-vaxxers,

It reminds me of those that defended the bathroom protestors of Kyrsten Sinema. When one asks how this is different than those lunatics threatening school board members instead of intelligent discussion, you get shrieking right out of Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

[betsuni]

22. I saw a documentary about childhood obesity a few years ago.

A chef taught the families how to shop and cook meals at home instead of depending on junk food. Everyone in the family felt much better on a healthier diet, and all the obese children lost weight, some more than others. But then at the end the documentarians went back after a year and all the children had gained back the weight. A very difficult problem. Processed food is addicting. Thank you Michelle Obama and all the chefs and food people who try hard to make children healthier.

[obamanut2012]

191. That was in WV in a very poor area with very low employment

And little healthy food options.

It was Jamie Oliver. I watched it, it was great, but not even the local schools had the money to feed the children in a healthy way. It is about money. You can educate, but if you are not helping people's finances, it means nothing.

[Sympthsical]

24. I am so glad you posted this first

I saw this article this morning and debated posting it for precisely your reasons. However, I was about to leave for campus for the day and wouldn't be able to respond. Didn't want to post and run.

But.

I swear, I kept reading "perfect health" in that article, over and over. As if the people knew she was definitely not and completely overcompensating. I kept reading this phrase again and again, and I thought, "What is going on here?"

Then I saw the pictures.

"Surely someone somewhere in this article will say something." Newp! They let that one go.

That child was not "perfectly healthy."

That child was crazy obese.

And, as we know, obesity and Covid do not mix. The last study I read said something like 78% of all Covid deaths are accompanied by obesity.

It is absurdly irresponsible to run that "perfectly healthy" line so many times in the article I read (I believe it was CNN.com). I get wanting to be sensitive to the parents. They lost their little girl. But at some point, sensitivity is trumped by medical and scientific honesty. How many people have died of Covid so far?

And we're still beating around the bush with this one?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. Weight is not a reliable indicator of health.

[Sympthsical]

40. No, but amount of body fat percentage and fat distribution are

And thousands of scientific studies have teased this out over time.

I consider the "healthy at any size" people very close kin to global warming deniers.

The science is very clear. Obesity causes many problems. Pre-existing problems are often massively aggravated by obesity.

And the stories, "I'm 50 lbs overweight, and my numbers are ok!" are, for me, like watching people who say, "How is global warming a thing when we had such a pleasantly cool summer?" Sure, it's fine for you. But in aggregate, it's a problem that needs addressing.

We just pretend along with this one because it's a problem that a lot of people suddenly find they can't point fingers at others about.

I don't do science denial.

[grumpyduck]

45. I just did a google search for "death rates due to obesity"

and a number of articles came up, one being from WHO. The numbers are there. And sure, not everyone who is "overweight," whatever that means, dies from a cause related to "being overweight."

I tend to agree that we can't, as a society nowadays, have a serious conversation about what is a health problem -- probably pushed by makers of processed food under the label of "convenience" -- and not an issue of personal worth. Kinda like Covid has gone, in many circles, from a serious health problem to a political issue.

[Sympthsical]

54. The "weight is not a reliable indicator" stuff comes from BMI

BMI is honestly an inaccurate way to measure things. If someone's six feet tall and 225 lbs, they're obese under BMI categories. Ok, but what if they have high muscle mass and do cardio five times a week? Maybe their actual body fat is 15% - not 30%. Compare that to a person at the same height and weight who does nothing and actually is at 30% body fat? Yep, here comes the diabetes risks. Yet both will have the same BMI.

People used BMI for so long, and once it got debunked as being an accurate measure of health, people just ran with that. I mean, it's still on the NIH website. "See? Weight isn't an indicator!" It's not. But amount of body fat? You betcha. Risks go up accordingly.

BMI should only be used as a verrrry rough guide. Of course you have to tailor it to what actual shape people are in.

But on average, for Americans, we don't have an epidemic of people with 30 BMI running marathons.

People try to confuse the issue with this. It's deliberate.

But science is science at the end of the day.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

47. .

No, but amount of body fat percentage and fat distribution are

They're actually not. BMI is junk science.

I consider the "healthy at any size" people very close kin to global warming deniers.

You sound fun.

Obesity causes many problems. Pre-existing problems are often massively aggravated by obesity.

There are definitely things that carrying extra weight can exacerbate -- joint pain and arthritis is a common one, of course. But when it comes to metabolic health, it's not a cause.

And the stories, "I'm 50 lbs overweight, and my numbers are ok!" are, for me, like watching people who say, "How is global warming a thing when we had such a pleasantly cool summer?" Sure, it's fine for you. But in aggregate, it's a problem that needs addressing.

Many, many other indicators -- grip strength, how often you exercise, your vegetable intake -- are more reliable indicators of health than a number on a scale.

We just pretend along with this one because it's a problem that a lot of people suddenly find they can't point fingers at others about.

I don't know what this means.

[Sympthsical]

58. I'm not defending BMI

Because it is junky. The amount of fat someone is carrying is far more indicative.

But denialism is denialism. And honestly, I'm good here. It's a waste of time to entertain it any further.

[crimycarny]

43. No it's not

And being super thin can be just as bad. I suffered from anorexia as a kid so I am the last person who wants to "fat shame". That's why this is such a delicate subject (just look at the replies).

But in general most who are overweight also aren't fit. Exercise is missing from our lives, especially kids.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

48. If kids exercise and are still fat, what then?

[crimycarny]

63. I guess we'll know when that happens

You keep talking about "fat", that's all you are focusing on.

1) There is a difference between fat and obese
2) Let's focus on the exercise part first. I would highly doubt kids who exercise will still be obese (grossly overweight, not just overweight by some chart).

[WhiskeyGrinder]

68. .

1) There is a difference between fat and obese

1) What's the difference? Why worry about one and not the other?

2) Let's focus on the exercise part first. I would highly doubt kids who exercise will still be obese (grossly overweight, not just overweight by some chart).

Grossly overweight by what chart? And if they still are, then what?

[crimycarny]

72. Nothing I say is going to matter

You're dead set on focusing on BMI and other deflections.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

78. Weird, I feel like the people who are So Concerned about childhood obesity are the ones

focused on BMI and other deflections. If they gave a shit about kids' health they'd focus on those healthy habits and not be obsessed with making assumptions from a child's appearance.

[crimycarny]

84. Didn't I write several posts about the importance of exercise?

Who mentioned BMI? Oh, that would be you. Who talked about the need to focus on healthy habits and exercise? Oh, that would be me.

Instead of being so angry and defensive, maybe try to see past your anger and do some work to help kids get healthier? I volunteer with Special Olympics as my way to make sure those kids get a chance to compete in a sport---kids with Down's syndrome tend to struggle with being overweight so getting them involved in a sport not only helps them make exercise part of their routine but also helps them build self-esteem. Lots of local programs out there you can get involved in if you're not already. Volunteer to be a coach for a local sports team.

Put your money where your mouth is and stop obsessing about BMI.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

88. I mean...you started this thread with "obesity" in the title. The modern concept of obesity is based

on BMI. You mentioned exercise levels and food accessibility, but the OP was centered on a concept of a number or size, not an ability or access.

Instead of being so angry and defensive, maybe try to see past your anger and do some work to help kids get healthier?

Uh...what makes you think I'm angry?

Volunteer to be a coach for a local sports team.

Already put my time in for many years, thanks!

Put your money where your mouth is and stop obsessing about BMI.

I'm not obsessed about BMI. I am, however, very interested in getting other people to stop focusing on the concept of "obesity" at the expense of ability, metabolic health, rewarding habits, personal fulfillment and joy.

[crimycarny]

93. I mentioned obesity

You jumped on the BMI train and there was no stopping it.

Nothing in any of my posts talked about focusing on weight at the expense of ability, metabolic health, rewarding habits, personal fulfillment and joy. In fact, ALL of my posts mentioned the importance of exercise and healthy eating. I even wrote--in reply to you in fact--that dieting doesn't work and metabolism is key. But you brush over that and continue to interpret what I and others write to fit your narrative.

And this is why we can't have a sincere discussion.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

94. .

Why is metabolism key? What is it key for?

Funny, we keep agreeing that building new habits around exercise and eating is important. I’m just curious if it’s possible for people to talk about that while divesting entirely from discussing how someone looks in a photograph, how their genetic makeup might influence their body, or what a scale says when they step on it.

[obamanut2012]

192. Because BMI is how we state medically if someone is obese or not

It literally cannot tell us that. Yet, that is the standard YOU used yourself. It is how people say someone is obese.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

37. Everything

Has sugar in it. Also its high carb.

I cut real sugar out of my diet along with the carbs that go directly into the bloodstream.

I lost 50 lbs.

There are too many processed carbs and too much sugar in everything.

And food companies like big tobacco need to be investigated. Who knows which chemicals are added to food they sell. They are probably adding ingredients that make sugar and high carb stuff addictive.

[Sympthsical]

46. Refined, processed sugar is highly addictive

This has been known for some time. It's even more crazy addictive than nicotine. Just watching a young child's body react to it tells you all you need to know. Like watching a miniature bender.

I just use splenda for most things. Coffee and tea. But also things like ice cream. Make my own with splenda, cream, then various flavors.

Fortunately, the market for low carb has come a long way since keto and similar started being a thing. I get keto bread from costco. It tastes like bread, but it's pretty much mostly fiber. Peanut butter toast and a cup of tea with splenda. Nomnom snacky times.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

75. Cant do splenda

Got allergic to it in a weird way

I had a two inch wide strip of raw irritated skin around my neck.
And it caused me to feel scary depressed.

I use stevia for most stuff.

[crimycarny]

85. So true

I tried to go sugar free and it is almost impossible. I had no idea how many foods have sugar added. Even Bacon! (Yes, I know I shouldn't eat processed meat but I like my occasional sin).

Eliminating sugar is also supposed to greatly reduce your risk of Alzheimer's.

[ananda]

52. When I was little, we were outside playing as often as possible.

We loved it and organized our own active games.

As we got older, we joined organized sports, all of us.

As I got into my forties, I noticed that neighborhoods
and parenting styles had changed drastically. Hardly
any kids played outside the way we did.

It was weird, but I think the cause is rooted in both
parents working so that younger and younger kids are
put into childcare or pre-school... not getting nearly
as much exercise as us freerange kids did.

[malaise]

62. THIS

Very important

[meadowlander]

91. Also the news media makes parents terrified to let their kids out the door.

If they aren't abducted, they'll be hit by a car or shot.

Sadly, too many kids live in neighbourhoods where that is probably true.

And surprise, surprise, the neighbourhoods with the worst obesity epidemics are also the ones with the fewest parks and other places that kids can safely exercise.

[MichMan]

171. When I was young, we walked or rode bikes everywhere.

My parents weekends off did not revolve around what we wanted to do as kids. Other than isolated requests, we were generally left to engage in our own outdoor activities. We were expected to get ourselves to any extra curricular school activities by riding a bicycle.

Now I see parents driving their kids everywhere. They drive them a couple blocks away to sit in the car and wait for the school bus. They drive them from door to door through the subdivision for halloween. (we live in a very safe rural subdivision)

[Celerity]

61. The Pandemic Has Worsened the U.S. Obesity Epidemic

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2021-09-15/the-pandemic-has-worsened-americas-obesity-epidemic-report-finds

[Dorian Gray]

66. People should eat well and exercise

sometimes they don't.

Don't see why we have to shame a ten year old the day after she dies because she was overweight. Should not have been a death sentence.

[crimycarny]

113. I'm not shaming her

Nowhere in my post did I say this child’s weight was her fault. I mentioned this in the much larger context that this has become a big problem in our country and it needs to be addressed or more children will die.

Whether or not it “should” or “should not” be a death sentence is irrelevant. Obesity is listed as a significant risk factor for severe COVID. That’s is simply a fact.

[Dorian Gray]

159. A lot of people

are pointing out that people die with obesity. This serves two purposes: a) If you're not obese, you don't have to worry. She had a pre-existing condition. b)Gives cover to those who are anti-vaxx/anti-mask. Seee... it's only obese people who are dying. THey're responsible for their own health. Not our problem.

There are societal reasons why weight in incrementally increasing in the USA, and addressing it as a system would be great. Sure. But it's not an immediate response that will have an effect anytime soon.

It is well known that weight is a factor in risk of severe outcomes from Covid. So what does pointing out this one child's body weight do for anyone other than to etherize her and make people feel better about their chances?

[Tomconroy]

67. For whatever it's worth the CDC does say that

Obesity is one of the factors that can put you at risk for serious illness from Covid. This applies to both adults and children:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html#:~:text=Similar%20to%20adults%2C%20children,from%20COVID%2D19.

You have to scroll way down.

[ecstatic]

74. I think the experts aren't presenting the public with all the options

People are forced to rely on random quack doctors to get information. However, one thing I stumbled on accidentally is intermittent fasting, or some version of it. I started to fall into a routine where I'd be super focused and working marathon hours and maybe eat a light dinner due to running out of food and/or not feeling like cooking. Then other days I would stock up on groceries and damn near binge.

Over a period of time--maybe months or years (it's kind of a blur now)--my metabolism changed and I went from someone who couldn't eat a donut without gaining 2 lb to someone who could eat whatever the hell I wanted to with no consequences. My metabolism changed to the way it was back when I was a kid. Now I can eat anything I want with no dieting or unintentional intermittent fasting.

There's a doctor who talked about this concept and how intermittent fasting activates a "skinny" gene. But you'll never hear concepts like this discussed in health class. They just show you the ridiculous and unrealistic food plate diagram that is nearly impossible to follow. They don't take into account how carbohydrates affect the appetite or cravings, etc.

All of that said, weight does not automatically equate to good health. I'm just now starting to take my nutrition more seriously. Today was the first day in probably more than 10 years that I've managed to drink 64 oz of plain water with no extra sweeteners added.

[crimycarny]

89. I've tried not eating after 6 pm

When I tried fasting during the day, all I could think about was how hungry I was. My sister mentioned not eating after 6 pm. Since I usually get up around 8 am, that means I'm fasting 14 hours. It seems to be helping and I lost about 5 lbs. Feel way better in the morning too.

[canetoad]

106. For years I've eaten once a day

Around 4-ish. It's bullshit to consider yourself as 'fasting' if you're not stuffing your face every ten minutes.

Ask yourself why some (I'm one) challenge the habits of having three, four meals a day. Medieval serfs did not have 'breakfast' or lunch for that matter. Hunter gatherers communal meal would have been at the end of the hunting/gathering day.

Dont kid yourself that food manufacturers even WANT you to be healthy. They want to sell more product. Obesity is excellent for short term profit, especially when the subjects are addicted to the cheapest, most empty of all calories - corn syrup.

Your'e on the right track crimycarny but your need to ditch the conditioning that tells you to eat three times a day and when you do, look for satisfaction in carbs and sugar.

[crimycarny]

143. I don't eat three meals a day

The most important meal for me is breakfast. Throughout the rest of the day it’s just hit and miss. I nibble more than sit down and eat a “meal”. I don’t really think about food much UNTIL I tried to fast and then I thought about it all the time, lol. So I went back to eating my biggest meal in the morning and then just nibbling throughout the day but nothing after 6 pm. Had to throw out my Extra Toasty Cheezits to achieve the “don’t eat after 6” thing though. Dang those are good.

[obamanut2012]

193. Eating right before bed is perfectly fine

Junk science as much as BMI is.

IF is literally only CICO. You can eat every two hours and have the same amount of kcal than if you did IF for 14 hours. IF also does the opposite for some folks: it makes them eat more.

[moonscape]

76. I have been intermittent fasting, eating in

a 4 to 6-hr window, both to lose weight and for general health. Was struck by someone in a forum saying they are trying to do 12-hour fasts. I thought, ‘isn’t that like normal eating?’ before realizing it no longer is.

When I grew up in the 50’s we ate whole foods, 3 meals, and did not snack. The idea of having dinner then snacking before bedtime was foreign. TV dinners were a laughable novelty. Processed snacks now are their own food group. Carbs were perhaps 10% of our diet in the 50’s vs 40% or more today and they are addictive. Mfgs engineer foods to be that way. When I went through my I’m-over-this-cooking-thing period, I used to buy such healthy looking frozen foods at Costco (bulked up my freezer!) which was great until I started actually reading the labels. Yikes!

Tough stuff. No way to turn back the clock to a time when food wasn’t so highly processed, so am bereft of ideas much less answers.

[slightlv]

86. I agree, childhood obesity is worse than when I was a kid (I'm 65)

but I WAS one of those fat kids. I was a premie, born at less than 4 lbs, went home at 5 lbs. Failed to thrive; dropped to 3.5 lbs. Allergic to milk; put on Soylac and I guess never looked back. My dad was a child of the Depression. They never had enough to eat, nor of anything else. While I was a twin whose twin was absorbed, my Dad's twin died in a house fire. After that, Dad was farmed out to whatever family member would have him until he was old enough at 17 to enlist in the military. He met and married my Mom when she was just 17 (and I was soon thereafter on the way). Daddy would give you the shirt off his back if you need it, even if it was the last one he had. He cooked like a chef, and he fed anyone and everyone, even the squirrels, the birds, and any strays that looked like they needed food. He wasn't a "hugger"... he wasn't raised that and never saw much demonstrations of affection. Cooking and feeding his family, especially was the way he showed his love.

I was the first born; the apple of his eye, especially since I had such a rocky start in life. My IQ was 156 and I excelled at all things mental and intellectual. My AQ (athletic quotient) had to be 001. I could ride a bike without falling off, but that was about it. And, like most humans, I enjoyed doing things that I excelled at -- hated things I couldn't do well. I loved taking tests, I enjoyed debate, poetry club, psychology, anthropology, polysci, but you know what? That meant hours in the library, studying -- which I adored. Didn't help the weight come off.

Intellectually, I thought I knew what to do. I tried "dieting"... I tried "lifestyle changes"... I got a 2nd job and worked to buy a bicycle and rode it religiously every night for 3 hours up and down the hills of Atchison. I cut my calorie intake and upped my intake of water. I even tried some of the fad diets when everything else failed. By this time, I was a teenager and I really, really wanted a boyfriend as the hormones started to kick in. But I had two things against me. First, my body was failing to look like those insane basketball girls and second, most of the boys hated it that I knew more about more subjects than they did! ARGH! I cannot tell you how many times I contemplated if I just wasn't cut out for this world and would be better off not being in it. Worse, I felt like the only one feeling this way. But then, Daddy would be there with a piece of fresh baked cherry pie and loving words. Mom would chide me that I'd destroy all the hard work I'd done all week. I knew she was right, but... I just want to feel something "nice."

I'm 65 now. I've got fibromyalgia, spinal stenosis, lupus, one hip replacement, and another to come soon. I've ridden motorcycles most of my adult life and I grabbed all the gusto I could for as much as I could my adult life. For most of that life I've spent it trying to lost that last 10-20 pounds that never would go away, no matter what.

I blame the soylac I was raised on. I blame not be breastfed. I blame the chemicals in the earth, air, and sea. I blame the chemicals in the foods. I REALLY blame the corn that's in everything, especially the HFCS. I blame all the different kinds of sugars. I blame all the different kinds of technology that's made our lives so much easier, without corresponding ways to make movement easier and more enjoyable, especially for those of who live with pain as we try to move. I blame the doctors and Big Pharma for not coming up with something NON Addictive for relieving the pain that comes from movement besides pain pills. And then scream at us for taking them, or take them away from us we're addicts.

I'm really not blaming anyone else. I ate the crap. And, crap it was. My family was poor. My father was raised poor during the depression. During the war he was stationed in Italy, Germany, some parts of the middle east-african area. He learned to cook and omg, could he cook. And he passed the gene on to me. I'm grateful. I've learned to substitute ingredients.

Thanks to my ailments, or maybe some god's evil sense of irony... now that I'm old and can't move much anymore... and am no longer any danger to myself or some good looking guy... I now weigh a sum total of 91 pounds soaking wet on a good day. Oh, to have been this way at 20, or 30, or even at 40. The trouble I could have gotten into!!!!!!!

I guess all I'm saying is, obesity is such a multi-faced problem. It's really not just a matter of calorie in/energy out. It's more than that. All these systems in our body are interconnected. They've even discovered are gut flora are connect -somehow-. And I figure about the time they find a non-addictive pain med is about the time they'll find a pill to really help obese people.

Cause you know what? It'll be a self-reducing profit margin. And big pharma ain't gonna want neither of those pills on the market for long!!!

[CrackityJones75]

102. I mean the things you point to are... Simplistic

I mean the things you point to are… Simplistic. At best. And that isn’t a rip on you. At all. That is the nature of where we are at today. The web of things that have created where we are is deep. It is food systems, it is health and beauty lies and industry. It is germ theory. It is school programs. It is socio economic realities of access and knowledge. Education systems carved a d hollowed out. It is losing the knowledge if how to eat from generation to generation. Strike that, not how to eat. How to live. How to survive. How to have happiness. It is industries built up around massive health crises such as diabetes and the threat of tackling that problem and the outcome of what that would mean for said industry. It is decades and decades to the point of centuries of compounded wrong decisions and evil greedy manipulations of solving the issue of how to feed people. To offer them “choice” and do it under capitalism. Unraveling all of this pits conspiracy against reality and it gets cloudy where they overlap.

And then I stop and I think about goldfish and supposedly how they will not over grow their bowl. Maybe that’s how all of this works. Maybe we do this shit to ourselves as a species to keep our effect on our bowl limited as much as possible.

[canetoad]

103. Crimy - Ima give a rec

Even before I've read the thread; you are brave to bring it up and it needs to be said.

I hope you are not trashed too much for your views - off to read thread now.

[crimycarny]

114. Thank you

I knew I would get some push back for posting this but childhood obesity has been a growing problem and if we can’t talk about it in an honest and compassionate fashion we will never be able to address it.

As I suspected, many who don’t like my post are accusing me of “fat shaming”, blaming the child for being overweight, being insensitive, etc. None of that is true and my post and replies don’t reflect that either.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

112. What causes obesity & overweight?

Several factors can play a role in gaining and retaining excess weight. These include diet, lack of exercise, environmental factors, and genetics. Some of these factors are discussed briefly in the following section. The National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute offers more information on the causes of overweight and obesity.

People gain weight when they eat more calories than they burn through activity. This imbalance is the greatest contributor to weight gain.
---------
Research shows that genetics plays a role in obesity. Genes can directly cause obesity in such disorders as Prader-Willi syndrome.

Genes also may contribute to a person’s susceptibility to weight gain. Scientists believe that genes may increase a person’s likelihood of having obesity but that outside factors, such as an abundant food supply or little physical activity, also may be required for a person to have excess weight.

https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/obesity/conditioninfo/cause

Years ago, my old country doctor told me the best way to stay healthy as I aged was to keep moving, keep moving.

[Act_of_Reparation]

117. Weight gain/loss is a function of calories gained vs. calories spent.

There are some confounding, developmental factors, but you're never ever going to escape thermodynamics.

If you burn more calories than you ingest, you will lose weight. If you ingest more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. If children are heavier these days, it is very likely more a matter of lowering activity levels and increased portion sizes. With regard to weight, what the kids are actually eating probably doesn't matter all that much.

[crimycarny]

129. 100% agree

And that is why I think exercise is the #1 most important thing to help maintain your health. It’s not just about weight as some seem to think I’m implying. Is about blood pressure, heart health, blood sugar, etc. Exercise can let you get away with a lot of “sins” (for lack of a better word). Even in alcoholics their livers can be largely protected if they are avid exercisers (vigorous exercise).

If I had to choose one thing to change in order to help kids stay healthy it would be to find a way to incorporate regular exercise into their routine. But unless the public schools provide that, or we invest in public parks and gyms that are accessible and free to underserved areas, I don’t see much changing.

[Happy Hoosier]

135. That last sentence is completely wrong.

Yes, we can’t escape thermodynamics, but a calorie is not a calorie. Foods that cause a massive insulin response promote rapid deposition of fat. What does that? Carbs, particularly refined carbs and sugar. Further, insulin inhibits the uptake of lepton, the satiety hormone.

In short what one eats matters a lot, because it can affect how satisfied one feels, and therefore how much one eats. And if insulin levels are hight, excess calories are readily stored as fat, instead of up-regulating metabolism.

[Act_of_Reparation]

163. I was imprecise in my meaning.

What I mean to say is I think the biggest factors contributing to childhood obesity are portion sizes (which can be shown to have increased significantly over the past fifty years or so) and decreased physical activity. Of course diet matters, but I don't think you can point at one type of food in particular and say "that's why kids are fat these days".

[Happy Hoosier]

164. I still disagree to an extent.

Physical activity matters, of course, but based on the latest research, it's maybe 10-20% of the problem.

Kids do eat too much, but why? Not all foods are equally satisfying. Carbs do not trigger nearly as much of a satiety response as fats, for example, so people on a high carb diet tend to eat more just on that fact alone. In short, I think we CAN point the finger at carbs.... especially simple carbs and sugars. We eat WAY too much of them.

Here's another issue: We eat too often. When we snack all day long, we never give our bodies a chance to lower its insulin levels and trigger lipolysis. If our body never metabolizes fat for energy, it just gets stuffed into adipose cells. The evidence for this is becoming overwhelming.

[Act_of_Reparation]

166. There are some social/evolutionary factors to consider as well.

When I was a kid, I was told to finish everything on my plate, and if I didn't I was guilt tripped into it. "Don't you know there are kids starving [wherever]?" I can't speak to what things are like today, but at one point there was tremendous social pressure to avoid wasting food.

There's also biology. Most animals will eat as long there is food in front of them, regardless of whether they're hungry. This is an evolutionary adaptation that works great when food is scarce, but is dangerous when it is abundant.

As far as physical activity is concerned, I agree that it isn't as important as diet. I've lost significant amounts of weight dieting without increasing my activity one iota.

[Johnny2X2X]

174. I cannot agree more

I have felt this in my own dieting habits. Eliminating carbs and sugar completely changes my appetite.

I think the idea that we have to eat a lot every day to not feel hungry comes from these dietary choices. We simply don't need that much food a day, but we're consuming foods that trigger overeating just to feel satisfied.

When you get off sugar and carbs, it's amazing the difference in what your body is telling you about eating. On sugar and carbs, my body says eat or you're going to feel icky and hungry, eat or your blood sugar will make you feel awful. Off them, your body says eat when you're hungry, but a much smaller meal will sate that hunger and you'll be fine without food for much longer.

I don't like breakfast, never have. But I forced myself to eat in the morning because I'd feel sick without food. Now I drink a cup of coffee for breakfast, that's it. And I eat a small lunch at noon. That's what my body says it needs.

People listen to their bodies without any regard to the fact that your body is lying to you if you're eating the wrong diet.

[madville]

132. I saw an interview with the parents

They were obese as well. Not getting into the argument about being both healthy and obese, waste of time.

The undeniable fact is that obesity is a proven risk factor that increases the possibility of COVID hospitalization and death.

Was she “perfectly healthy” as the mother put it? Maybe, she was still young enough to have not developed any obesity-related conditions yet.

Did her obesity make her COVID infection deadly? Very likely.

It’s a shame they won’t let kids under 12 get vaccinated, that probably would have protected her and she’d be alive today.

[Happy Hoosier]

134. Obesity is not a disease.

We do not have an obesity epidemic. We have a Type 2 diabetes epidemic. And what causes type II dianetes? Hyperinsulinanemia. And what causes too much insulin? Too much sugar and carbohydrate intake, especially refined carbs.

We must drastically reduce the percentage of our calories that come from carbohydrates, in particular, sugar.

[crimycarny]

140. CDC defines obesity as a chronic disease

But I get what you mean.

It’s shockingly hard to go sugar free. Sugar is added to EVERYTHING. I never realized this until I tried to go sugar free for 2 weeks. It’s in tomato sauce, bacon, dairy products .. everything. So I did my best to get as little sugar as possible, but my choices were extremely limited. Shocked me.

[Happy Hoosier]

145. I was diagnosed with Type II about a year ago...

My HbA1C was 10.6.

I researched this hard. The CDC may call obesity a disease, but it isn’t it’s the body’s repose to metabolic dysfunction.

Yeah, it’s hard to go completely sugar free, but I have found success by avoided added sugars at least. And in general, I avoid carbs, and limit myself to 20 net carbs a day.

It works. My Type II has been reversed… completely normal blood sugars…. HbA1C of 5.0 on my last test.

And oh by the way… as of this morning I have lost 140 lbs. 110 of it in the last 14 months.

[Celerity]

141. Obesity is a complex disease involving an excessive amount of body fat. Obesity isn't just a

cosmetic concern. It's a medical problem that increases the risk of other diseases and health problems, such as heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure and certain cancers.



https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/obesity/symptoms-causes/syc-20375742


https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/business/ama-recognizes-obesity-as-a-disease.html

The American Medical Association has officially recognized obesity as a disease, a move that could induce physicians to pay more attention to the condition and spur more insurers to pay for treatments.




https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/about-obesity/index.html

[Happy Hoosier]

150. With all due respect...

Obesity is a so-called “risk factor” but it has NEVER been shown to be a cause. Most often obesity is a sign of metabolic dysfunction…. It is caused by the same things that cause diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, etc. saying fat causes diabetes is no more correct than saying bleeding causes cuts.

Our knowledge about nutrition and metabolism has expanded a LOT over the last 10 years… and the medical establishment is struggling to catch up.

[MissB]

151. I'm going to chime in awfully late to the thread (long)

Last edited Fri Oct 8, 2021, 10:58 AM - Edit history (1)

I only raised two kids. Both Dh and I have family members that run the gamut from healthy to obese. I’ve struggled with my weight over the years but tend to stay in the normal size clothing range.

I think the obesity issue is so multifaceted that it’s hard to nail down the One Thing that will truly make a difference.

We raised our kids (now early 20s) to be active. They played outside as toddlers. Our neighborhood is safe.

We love to bicycle. The kids went on annual multi-week bicycle trips with their dad (father/son bonding time) in the summer. We could afford to supply them with appropriately sized bikes and helmets, adding bicycles to the pile of bikes in the garage as they grew. We could afford for Dh to take a vacation with them via bicycles.

We went camping a lot in the summer, which meant hikes. We could afford camping gear such as tents, pads, sleeping bags, cooking gear, and time off from work.

I come from a long line of cooks. My mother’s version of canned food was stuff that she preserved in jars. I’ve kept that skill and added gardening. We always have fresh vegetables in the summer. I can afford to take the time to plant seeds, water the plants and spend time in the garden. I never really worried about the grocery bills because we could afford our groceries and I had and still have excellent access to grocery stores.

As the kids got older and started school, our little public school system doesn’t have a cafeteria to produce food. I mean, the facilities are there but our neighborhood just isn’t into cafeteria style food. We rarely have students eligible for free or reduced lunch and we don’t take federal funds for lunches. Lunch is available to purchase- you get a menu before the start of each month so you can choose which days you want lunch. Lunches were catered from local restaurants. On average, the lunches were $6 or $7 per kid each day, and you paid for the month in advance. We could afford to do so, but my kids preferred home packed lunches for the most part, choosing one to three days of catered lunches a month. The sandwiches or salads or burritos or whatever were really good stuff- like things I’d choose for lunch, not fast food style. They could get milk or water. That’s it. No vending machines.

The school still has a PE teacher, and the kids get multiple recesses a day, including a half hour at lunch that is separate from the time they eat lunch.

The high school is similar in terms of lunches but the vendor brings in a lot more daily variety. There are no off campus lunch options nearby. Those kids pay each day.

We let the kids do whatever sports they wanted to try, and they seemed to try them all. Soccer was popular in grade school and cross country/track ruled during their high school years. Elementary sports were $350 each term and high school sports were over $400 each term. That’s per child. We could afford it. Our school had a no-cut policy. If you wanted to participate then you were on the team.

I personally think that as a country we can attack the obesity epidemic if we had the will. But it’s currently easier to be healthy if you’re middle class or upper middle class. Being poor limits your choices greatly.

My kids are skinny/in shape. They both just ran a 50k race that took them up the sides of hills and mountains through brutal terrain. If we couldn’t have afforded all the stuff I listed then I think they’d have been bigger.

[crimycarny]

157. Agree with all you said

We brought our kids up very similarly and, as you point out, so much of that was we had the means to do so. We could buy the bikes, pay the fees for soccer/basketball/baseball organized sports, had the time to take the kids on camping trips, etc. All of that isn't nearly as easy, or downright impossible, for many. That is why obesity is so closely tied to poverty.

I don't know the answer, it's so complicated and it will cost money. I don't know if we have the will in the country to make the investment we would need to in order to try and turn things around. I wish we did.

[Stuart G]

194. If it was ...."EASY" to deal with .."Obesity",.. it wouldn't exist..NOT EASY...VERY COMPLICATED..

....OBESITY & OVER WEIGHT PROBLEMS IN THE U.S.A. DEAL WITH A NUMBER OF VERY DIFFICULT PROBLEMS...

The list is endless...from family issues, to sugar issues, to school issues, what you like to eat & not eat.....and............
..........so on, and on, and on, and on...and on...

I was once obese...70 pounds over weight....I lost the weight and kept it off till today.....I got pictures of the.." Big
Stuart"...and the ......"Normal Stuart"......Kept the weight off for 40 years......

It is a very complicated and difficult to understand problem.....Very, Very, Very, Very ...."Complicated and difficult .....................
to grasp the entire entire problem as it exists in the ....."Real World"........................................................
So, I will give you a problem in history that is similar.....

Of course, many will disagree with this comparison....but that is up to you..............So, here it is, a simple question......

....................................What caused World War II?...................................................(just 5 words)...simple enough...

................How long to you have to answer that one....perhaps a college class on...World History - 20th Century...
will explain it....Maybe 2 classes back to back on World War I and World War II ...WHY? Because the two are related and one
(WWI) caused the other...(WWII)....................................................and...............................................................

the problem of obesity and .over weight issues are similar....very complicated and very difficult to understand................

When you start to study the issue, right here in the U.S.A.....RIGHT NOW...2021.....You will be overwhelmed with ........
information about this, and that, and that and this.........and more and more and more........so....GOOD LUCK....
YES.....I HAVE STUDIED THIS, HAD IT, AND BEAT THIS....and...IF IT WERE EASY,...IT WOULD BE ...EASY!!!!

.....................................LAST 3 WORDS ON THIS ONE.........................................................................

...............................................IT AIN'T EASY!!............................................................................

[Blue_true]

152. I saw a picture of the girl that passed. She looked obese. nt

[Celerity]

198. She was. nt

[maxsolomon]

154. When it comes to Covid vulnerability, it's basically too late.

If you are obese, you're already at greater risk, and you (likely) aren't going to lose enough weight to change that risk in time. Covid is here now, the risk is now.

All the more reason to get kids under 12 eligible for jabs.

[Happy Hoosier]

162. Correlation not causation...

I've gone over this before. It's not being fat that puts you at risk, it's inflammation. COVID kills through an inflammatory response. Fat, on it's own, does not cause inflammation. Many obese people (but not all) are in a constant inflammatory response state caused by insulin resistance.

And here's the thing... dietary interventions can counteract inflammatory conditions in WEEKS. Sometimes in DAYS, long before there is significant weight loss.

[Marthe48]

167. Being outside isn't healthy like it used to be

We've watched our grandkids since 2009. When my kids were young, they were outside all day, but it didn't get as hot, and the air wasn't as polluted. When my grandkids were young, I'd let them play on the walk in front of their house, and I'd sit just inside the open door. After 20 minutes, they'd have enough of the heat and come in. Now, they mainly stay in when I watch them. It is too hot even in the shade.

Their Mom is a renal dietitian and promotes healthy eating for all of us and is a goldmine of good ideas. The kids have limited access to junk food and restaurant food, and are developing good eating habits, but if you put an apple and a candy bar side by side, guess what they'd pick first?

There is a lot of psychology behind feeding people, which I think we all know. I really like to cook and bake, and it has been hard to accept that I can't feed the kids the way I'd like to. I have found alternative things I can take as treats. It was rewarding to me to give them homemade cookies. Their Mom makes wonderful bakery for them, so I accept that giving them things she doesn't want them to have in excess is much better for their health. When I had them at the public pool this summer, I was pleased that they looked healthier than many of the kids there.

I was that 1 fat kid in the class when I was growing up, and I've battled weight my whole life. Things are better now, because I understand that if I want to meet my goals, I need to eat healthy food. My goal 2 years ago was to get my sugar under control. I've done that and lost weight. My overarching goal is to all of my grandkids graduate from high school. I am their last living grandparent, and I am doing everything in my power to be there when they achieve that goal. My grand daughter asked me if I'd be there when she graduates from college. She is my dear little smartypants

[Zeitghost]

195. I don't know about other locations

But air quality here in CA has improved immensely since I was a kid in the 80's. And while climate change is a real issue, I'm not sure if being a degree or two hotter on average has had that much of an effect on outdoor play. I'd say TV, video games and cell phones have a lot more to do with that, along with kids being in afterschool programs and day care as more families have moved to dual income in order to stay afloat.

[cinematicdiversions]

197. Overall the environment is much better than it was 40 years

In terms of Air and water quality.

[GumboYaYa]

176. "Feed the gut and protect the liver" Robert Lustig

The CPGs have taken all the fiber out of food via processing and loaded it up with sugar, including lots of high fructose corn syrup. The sugar in our diets has cranked up our mitochondria to dysfunctional levels and is causing metabolic disease. Our bodies don't know what to do with all the energy we are feeding them so they store it as fat. But the really bad fat is the fat around our livers. That fat is correlated with metabolic disease. Skinny people can get metabolic disease too. Obesity is just a symptom of the disease, not its cause.

By taking the fiber out of food we have taken away the food for the beneficial bacteria that help keep our system in balance.

Not all calories are created equally. Doctors are waking up to the reality that what we eat is more important than how much we eat. https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/advance-article/doi/10.1093/ajcn/nqab270/6369073

Exercise and a natural, whole foods diet can reverse metabolic disease. If we focus on getting rid of metabolic disease, obesity will take care of itself.