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Ralph Nader, Jill Stein, Kristen Sinema (Original Post) greenman3610 Oct 2021 OP
I was thinking about this while listening to Andrew Yang today Walleye Oct 2021 #1
I was a fan of Nader until 2000. electric_blue68 Oct 2021 #13
Yes LetMyPeopleVote Oct 2021 #2
The very definition of assholes PlanetBev Oct 2021 #3
The Green Party & their ilk have caused untold damage. They've extended Right wing minority rule The Polack MSgt Oct 2021 #4
Logging in just to Rec your post. Budi Oct 2021 #6
+1000000000000 betsuni Oct 2021 #7
I have strong feelings with respect to all three but I really feel strongly about Nader LetMyPeopleVote Oct 2021 #12
Absolutely right. The Polack MSgt Oct 2021 #15
They are no more progressives than the Trump rabble are conservatives. Hitch hikers. nt Progressive Jones Oct 2021 #16
There are a several treacherous individuals and politicians who come to mind... NurseJackie Oct 2021 #26
+plus a million. Those touting climate change now are very Nixie Oct 2021 #28
+1 sheshe2 Oct 2021 #32
Damn Straight.. Thank you for being Cha Oct 2021 #35
Racist left? Thanks for that bullshit. Nt JanMichael Oct 2021 #40
What? The concept of a Racist LEFT populist movement is a problem? The Polack MSgt Oct 2021 #42
Back at you. The Left fights Racism. The middle accepts it. Hurt. Nt JanMichael Oct 2021 #43
Hahahahahahahahaha The Polack MSgt Oct 2021 #44
Who swept the Southern Black vote in 2016 & 2020 Primary again? Budi Oct 2021 #46
And South Carolina, too. George II Oct 2021 #47
Yup. SCarolina chose their candidate & the primary was effectively o.v.e.r. Budi Oct 2021 #48
Populist Left dismisses "identity politics": economic class identity only. betsuni Oct 2021 #49
+++ The Polack MSgt Oct 2021 #51
This JustAnotherGen Oct 2021 #50
They obviously do not have "do no harm" as a tenet of their politics. Beartracks Oct 2021 #5
Fringe element performance artists. The Wizard Oct 2021 #8
The green party in the US is mostly a Scam and their goal is to help Republicans JI7 Oct 2021 #9
The "green" is like product labeling: "all natural" "fat free" "low carb" "low calorie" betsuni Oct 2021 #10
Perfect! NurseJackie Oct 2021 #27
+1 uponit7771 Oct 2021 #24
Start with President Al Gore - not Bush the Idiot King - and extrapolate from there. NBachers Oct 2021 #11
Gore would have got select Rehnquist's replacement LetMyPeopleVote Oct 2021 #14
The Greene party exists only to siphon off votes from Dem... brush Oct 2021 #17
Green party served its purpose...........for the Republicans. cstanleytech Oct 2021 #18
And what about Andrew Yang now??? Not Green Party per se......but still..... a kennedy Oct 2021 #19
When a different evolution from the Greens in Germany! DFW Oct 2021 #20
What I really want is a party that will take climate change seriously Withywindle Oct 2021 #23
And I'm sure Ralph Nader is very proud of himself. DFW Oct 2021 #25
....walked into a bar and...... KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2021 #21
Krysten Sinema didn't do her damage as a Green Withywindle Oct 2021 #22
I'm not so sanguine about Ralphie-boy's sincerity. JHB Oct 2021 #34
True, true Withywindle Oct 2021 #36
Lets face it...she became a Democrat so she could compete in elections. Demsrule86 Oct 2021 #37
That brings to mind, Nina Turner. sheshe2 Oct 2021 #45
I recall a lot of people here couldn't wait to send money to Stein in 2016 MichMan Oct 2021 #29
I'd be fine with multiple parties if we had a parliament system budkin Oct 2021 #30
I don't think Nader and Stein were Democrats or ever ran in the Democratic party as a Dem. Autumn Oct 2021 #31
No, she is not the same as Manchin as we have a good shot at putting a Democratin her seat Demsrule86 Oct 2021 #38
She is a moderate Democrat, not a Green . Just as Manchin is Autumn Oct 2021 #41
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2021 #33
Neither Ralph Nader nor Jill Stein are Democrats, but KYRSTEN (not Kristen) Sinema is. George II Oct 2021 #39

The Polack MSgt

(13,188 posts)
4. The Green Party & their ilk have caused untold damage. They've extended Right wing minority rule
Wed Oct 6, 2021, 11:43 PM
Oct 2021

And acted as the midwives for the Bush Era. They never blinked when it came to assisting Trump.

Every Green, every Hillary bashing DSA, every tool of the racist populist left and all their friends...

None of 'em will ever deserve to even smell the shit of an honest Democrat.

I can not over state my hatred of these "progressives"

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
6. Logging in just to Rec your post.
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 12:09 AM
Oct 2021

Last edited Thu Oct 7, 2021, 12:41 AM - Edit history (1)

And a big FkU to Mark Zuckerburg & his magic algorithum that made propaganda messaging, overnight trending, fake political celebrities out of nobodies with nothing to offer society nor the will to actually do so.

"Money & Media" brought us where we are today, & their agents of intentional chaos.

Thank you for your words of truth, the truth that Zuckerburg's FB algorithum buried under the propaganda that collapsed our country.


LetMyPeopleVote

(145,176 posts)
12. I have strong feelings with respect to all three but I really feel strongly about Nader
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 01:23 AM
Oct 2021

I will never forgive nader Rove funded Nader in 2000 and 2004 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html


Furthermore, Karl Rove and the Republican Party knew this, and so they nurtured and crucially assisted Nader’s campaigns, both in 2000 and in 2004. On 27 October 2000, the AP’s Laura Meckler headlined “GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads.” She opened: “Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president [Mr. Gore]. ... ‘Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of,’ Nader says [in the commercial]. An announcer interjects: ‘What’s Al Gore’s real record?’ Nader says: ‘Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken.’” Meckler’s report continued: “A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Nader’s speeches.” Bush’s people - the group sponsoring this particular ad happened to be the Republican Leadership Council - knew exactly what they were doing, even though the liberal suckers who voted so carelessly for Ralph Nader obviously did not. Anyone who drives a car the way those liberal fools voted, faces charges of criminal negligence, at the very least. But this time, the entire nation crashed as a result; not merely a single car.....

On July 9th, the San Francisco Chronicle headlined “GOP Doners Funding Nader: Bush Supporters Give Independent’s Bid a Financial Lift,” and reported that the Nader campaign “has received a recent windfall of contributions from deep-pocketed Republicans with a history of big contributions to the party,” according to “an analysis of federal records.” Perhaps these contributors were Ambassador Egan’s other friends. Mr. Egan’s wife was now listed among the Nader contributors. Another listed was “Nijad Fares, a Houston businessman, who donated $200,000 to the Bush inaugural committee and who donated $2,000 each to the Nader effort and the Bush campaign this year.” Furthermore, Ari Berman reported 7 October 2004 at the Nation, under “Swift Boat Veterans for Nader,” that some major right-wing funders of a Republican smear campaign against Senator John Kerry’s Vietnam service contributed also $13,500 to the Nader campaign, and that “the Republican Party of Michigan gathered ninety percent of Nader’s signatures in their state” (90%!) to place Nader on the ballot so Bush could win that swing state’s 17 electoral votes. Clearly, the word had gone out to Bush’s big contributors: Help Ralphie boy! In fact, on 15 September 2005, John DiStaso of the Manchester Union-Leader, reported that, “A year ago, as the Presidential general election campaign raged in battleground state New Hampshire, consumer advocate Ralph Nader found his way onto the ballot, with the help of veteran Republican strategist David Carney and the Carney-owned Norway Hill Associates consulting firm.”

It was obvious, based upon the 2000 election results, that a dollar contributed to Nader in the 2004 contest would probably be a more effective way to achieve a Bush win against Kerry in the U.S. Presidential election than were perhaps even ten dollars contributed to Bush. This was a way of peeling crucial votes off from Bush’s real opponent - votes that otherwise would have gone to the Democrat. That’s why the smartest Republican money in the 2004 Presidential election was actually going to Nader, even more so than to Bush himself: these indirect Bush contributions provided by far the biggest bang for the right-wing buck.

The Polack MSgt

(13,188 posts)
15. Absolutely right.
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 01:32 AM
Oct 2021

He was (IMHO) a GOP pry bar they used for stripping support from the Democratic party.

I also believe he knew and approved of what was happening - to paraphrase Paul Simon - "Still angry after all these years"

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
26. There are a several treacherous individuals and politicians who come to mind...
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 06:15 AM
Oct 2021

... but for obvious reasons, I'll just move on. Instead, I'll let you know that you've done an outstanding job at concisely summarizing how I feel.

Nixie

(16,950 posts)
28. +plus a million. Those touting climate change now are very
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 09:22 AM
Oct 2021

dishonest about Democrats if they don’t know Gore’s history and/or fail to mention him. They are the same people who need to explain to young voters how they got stuck with a 6-3 Supreme Court.

The Polack MSgt

(13,188 posts)
42. What? The concept of a Racist LEFT populist movement is a problem?
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 09:53 PM
Oct 2021

If that hurts you, I'm sorry, but you need that hurt

The Polack MSgt

(13,188 posts)
44. Hahahahahahahahaha
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 10:36 PM
Oct 2021

What ever. The "Left's" epic struggle against racism is why they are so universally adored by the generations of Americans who have actually suffered under racist policies.

If you...

Ya know what, fuck it.

Just block me cousin, because I think your point of view is un-assailable. So do you.

My voice has never removed graffiti from a brick wall and I expect it will never make you reconsider a single thing.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
46. Who swept the Southern Black vote in 2016 & 2020 Primary again?
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 10:50 PM
Oct 2021

The Democratic Middle.
That demographic has always known who has their back.
That's why the 2020 Primary was over early.

The Middle.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
48. Yup. SCarolina chose their candidate & the primary was effectively o.v.e.r.
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 11:10 PM
Oct 2021

#BothHRC&Biden&The Democratic Middle Won TheSouth.. & OBAMA, & Carter, & Clinton & every middle Democrat before them.

They didn't win it by being racist. 🙄


betsuni

(25,486 posts)
49. Populist Left dismisses "identity politics": economic class identity only.
Fri Oct 8, 2021, 12:14 AM
Oct 2021

The Populist Left, not the Left.

The ones who believe in economic class revolution, that the establishment uses gender or race identity to trick people into voting for Democrats (the establishment = the Democratic Party, called "corporate Dems" because "beholden"/corrupt). Black voters have been called uninformed, accused of voting against their own interests, having Stockholm syndrome (infamous DU post that was up for a few months). Democrats must be lectured about running only on identity and not economic policy: "It's not good enough for someone to say, 'I'm a woman! Vote for me!'"

They also believe Republican voters are voting against their own interests because of "economic anxiety" (not being uninformed, stupid, or brainwashed) and Democrats ignoring the white working class, paying too much attention to "identity politics." When the revolution comes, Republicans will join the 99% against the 1%. Republican voters think Democrats give all the attention and free stuff to minorities/immigrants ("Them" ) in exchange for votes and consider the 1% one of "Us."

Here's an example of the populist Left:

"What you got is an African-American president, and the African American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him as president. And that's kind of natural. You've got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help. But that's not important. You should not be basing your politics on your color. What you should be basing your politics on is, how is your family doing? In the last election, in state after state, you had an abysmally low vote for the Democrats among white, working class people. And I think the reason for that is that the Democrats have not made it clear that they are prepared to stand with the working class people of this country, take on the big money interests."

betsuni

(25,486 posts)
10. The "green" is like product labeling: "all natural" "fat free" "low carb" "low calorie"
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 12:42 AM
Oct 2021

Then you read the ingredients on the back of the package.

LetMyPeopleVote

(145,176 posts)
14. Gore would have got select Rehnquist's replacement
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 01:24 AM
Oct 2021

That means no Citizens United or Shelby County v. Holder.

cstanleytech

(26,291 posts)
18. Green party served its purpose...........for the Republicans.
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 02:05 AM
Oct 2021

All it really did is weaken the Democratic party as it split the vote.

DFW

(54,370 posts)
20. When a different evolution from the Greens in Germany!
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 03:04 AM
Oct 2021

Here in Germany, the Green movement started out as a purely environmental pacifist movement. It was a time when Germany was finally starting to feel a stirring of a true foreign policy identity, and not one always following the USA, who had evolved into the role of passive, benevolent, but still vigilant victor after World War II. One of the founders was, herself, half-American.

The Soviet Union quickly saw an opportunity for penetration, and successfully did so, but never got to complete their task. When the Soviet Union and their East German lapdog regime collapsed, their meddling came to light, and their loyalists within the Greens either disappeared or joined “die Linken,” or “the (far) Leftists).” What was left was a wing of the Greens called the “Realos,” or “the realists.” Instead of rigid ideology, they matured, gained some pragmatism, and in the past 30 years have even posted a Foreign Minister and a State Governor in the important economic powerhouse of Baden-Württemberg. With about 14% in the recent election, and the poor showing by the two major parties—neither even got close to 30%!!—they are a cinch to be included in the new government, too.

Of course, were he German, Al Gore might have been a Green, himself. The Social Democrats here never had anyone close. They remain a party of mostly life-long bureaucrats whose knowledge of anything in the real world comes from reading statistics or the internet, much like their center-right counterparts in Merkel’s party, the CDU. If the major parties don’t wise up, and the Greens do (they are not complacency-immune), they could easily find themselves the top vote-getters here within a generation.

Our Al Gores still have a comfortable place within our Democratic Party, which is why Nader was suspect in the first place. “No difference between Bush and Gore?” Do we really come across as THAT stupid?

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
23. What I really want is a party that will take climate change seriously
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 04:09 AM
Oct 2021

Right now. It is the most imminent threat to our whole planet. I want a party I can vote for (with a chance of winning) that will make that priority number one. It is my main issue.

If Al Gore had taken office 20 years ago, we'd be way ahead of where we are now OBVIOUSLY.

I'm disappointed that Biden isn't taking any real action to shut down oil and coal - but then I didn't really think that he would. I voted for him because I knew he would at least do more damage control than Trump would, and he has. My expectations are unfortunately low.

Al Gore was VERY different from Bush. If he'd been elected, we'd be in a very different world now. I honestly do believe the original towers of the World Trade Center would still be there (because he wouldn't have ignored that urgent memo in August), so the Afghanistan and Iraq wars might not have happened. Imagine what we could have achieved if we hadn't been forced to funnel money into Cheney's mercenary companies for all that time.

DFW

(54,370 posts)
25. And I'm sure Ralph Nader is very proud of himself.
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 05:41 AM
Oct 2021

I’ve never asked him directly, because whenever I run into him, I’m always afraid I’ll be so angry with his answer that I’ll do something that might curtail my liberty for a few years.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,490 posts)
21. ....walked into a bar and......
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 03:47 AM
Oct 2021

got promptly thrown out on their arse for being jerks.


I know the fantastic wit of DUers can come up with some great responses far better than I.

KY..........

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
22. Krysten Sinema didn't do her damage as a Green
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 04:00 AM
Oct 2021

She did it as a "Democrat."

I feel these are three different people with three different motives. Ralph Nader was sincere about Green policy principles (which I totally liked and agreed with in 2000. I knew he couldn't win though, so I voted for Gore)

Jill Stein is an anti-vaxx nut job who was never a serious candidate.

Sinema was Green in her youth, and now she's just a sellout.

JHB

(37,160 posts)
34. I'm not so sanguine about Ralphie-boy's sincerity.
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 02:34 PM
Oct 2021

He first ran in 1996. Then he dropped off the map for four years. Whatever he was doing, it wasn't sincerely organizing a political party or forming a liberal-left voting block.

Without action it's just words.

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
36. True, true
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 03:27 PM
Oct 2021

And my opinion of him certainly did take a plunge as he kept pushing it. He had just had more time to build up residual goodwill prior to that.

Demsrule86

(68,556 posts)
37. Lets face it...she became a Democrat so she could compete in elections.
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 04:22 PM
Oct 2021

I support her now as she is a Democrat and a member of our Party. But I do believe she will have great difficulty winning her reelection and think we should have a primary. It is my hope that Arizona will find a great candidate who can win.

This should be a warning to us...the next candidate that is a 'former' green should be looked at very carefully before he/she is chosen to run for an office during a primary.

sheshe2

(83,751 posts)
45. That brings to mind, Nina Turner.
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 10:37 PM
Oct 2021

She has stated she is not a Democrat and ran on our ticket in Ohio and lost. Perhaps not Green, yet campaigned for Stein a few blocks down from the DNC convention.

Who is Jill Stein? Nina Turner Attacked for Historic Support of Green Party Candidate

https://www.newsweek.com/jill-stein-nina-turner-historic-support-green-party-candidate-1615653

I am embaressed that one of my Senators endorsed her.

MichMan

(11,915 posts)
29. I recall a lot of people here couldn't wait to send money to Stein in 2016
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 01:06 PM
Oct 2021

Hope they feel proud that they enabled her antics

Autumn

(45,066 posts)
31. I don't think Nader and Stein were Democrats or ever ran in the Democratic party as a Dem.
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 01:38 PM
Oct 2021

Sinema did and is a Democrat and ran with their blessing. Sinema is a moderate Democrat just as Joe Manchin and others are moderate Democrats.

Demsrule86

(68,556 posts)
38. No, she is not the same as Manchin as we have a good shot at putting a Democratin her seat
Thu Oct 7, 2021, 04:24 PM
Oct 2021

whereas that is not possible with Manchin.

Response to greenman3610 (Original post)

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Ralph Nader, Jill Stein, ...