"I'm not ashamed. I never was. I'm what abortion looks like."

[kpete]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1445796797537046529.html
https://liberalsarecool.com/post/664590995073253376

[niyad]

1. Heartbreaking. The only thing with which I disagree is, "abortion is between a woman,

Last edited Sun Oct 10, 2021, 11:23 AM - Edit history (1)

her doctor, her family, and her god." Abortion is solely the woman's decision.

[PJMcK]

6. You're point is understood but consider this

The doctor will give the best (hopefully!) medical advice.

The family can provide emotional and perhaps financial support.

The god, (?), can provide spiritual and perhaps moral perspective.

In any event, it’s ultimately the woman’s decision. It’s not a judge’s or a white, male Texan’s or anyone else’s business.

[Arkansas Granny]

7. You are absolutely right. A woman may wish to consult with

her doctor, her family and her god, but the decision is hers to make

[Duppers]

8. Exactly!

[PatrickforB]

14. Yep. The woman's decision. She may get feedback and seek information from

a number of people but the decision is hers.

[jaxexpat]

44. Exactly, but never unsolicited "wisdom" from ANYBODY who has no uterus!

Family, doctors, clergy, even spouses; none of them has ANY meaningful place in the equation unless they, too, are women.

Chew on that, right to choose equivocators. You know it's true.

In fact, it's time for equivocators to take a seat on just about ALL the hot, and not so hot, button issues the GOP has parlayed into a "platform". It's way past the time for appeasement.

[thesquanderer]

10. I wonder if it is verifiable.

It is a powerful story, and makes its point regardless of whether or not it's an actual true story, but for a newspaper to publish it, even on an opinion page, the would probably need to confirm it is not fiction.

[sinkingfeeling]

11. There are thousands of women with the same story. They could

verify mine from 1977.

[dhol82]

62. Mine was from 1987.

[sarchasm]

3. KnR!!

[bronxiteforever]

4. Kick and recommend.

[Vinca]

5. And still the people who want to outlaw this seem to think it's a fun thing that women

just do on a Saturday afternoon in the same way they might go shopping for shoes. I had an abortion once, too. Fortunately, I was barely pregnant and it was a simple procedure, unlike the woman who wrote this piece. A stranger - be it an elected official or a busybody who thinks they have a cause - has no business making this (or any other) decision about what a woman can do with her own body. The same fools who want to outlaw choice display "My Body, My Choice" signs when protesting masks. Go figure.

[Joinfortmill]

9. Heartbreaking. What a brave woman.

[paleotn]

12. Evangelicals...Walk a mile in someone's shoes before making blanket judgements.

I think Jesus said that. If he didn't he should have.

[markie]

13. "I'm not ashamed. I never was. I'm what abortion looks like."

and there doesn't need to be justification for anyone... I've had 2 abortions... 1st, self-induced with herbs (before RoevWade), 2nd, legally in a doctor office... I'm okay with the abortions and I don't need to justify them to anyone

[drmeow]

17. Exactly

it is nobodies f**king business but yours!

[calimary]

61. THIS!!!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. I honestly do not care why anyone gets an abortion. Sharing trauma shouldn't have to be a

prerequisite for other people to see abortion as a right and a necessary part of health care.

[niyad]

21. Exactly.

[LittleGirl]

19. My nephew died in-vitro in '91

My neighbor was given this news at 20 weeks that her baby’s brain and skull didn’t develop. She waited until natural birth occurred at 8 months and has never forgotten it. That baby would be a teen now had it survived longer than 33 minutes.

[Dukkha]

20. "I begged to be put under"

I understand that part from my former wife who went through an abortion just before 4 weeks, as it was accidental and we were in absolutely no position to raise a child. She came out of the clinic feeling OK and said "I'm so glad I had health insurance that covered me being put under. The other girls there could not and it was pretty rough on them."

[LakeArenal]

22. The guilt and self-flogging lasts a lifetime.

Malicious men in suits add to the tragedy.

The questioning lasts forever. Daily even.

Giving a child up for adoption has many of the same guilt and self-recriminations. The thought of either is never a choice a woman takes lightly.

Certainly not as lightly as the men making the rules to control women in the worst decisions of their life.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. For some people, not others. For many people it's a pretty easy decision.

[LakeArenal]

24. I know of no one that thought it was easy.

No one.....

I’ve only heard male politicians address it like that.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. Are we talking about the same thing? Male politicians talking about how easy it is to decide

to get an abortion?

What I was saying is that I know of many people who found it easy to decide to get an abortion and have moved on unencumbered since then.

[LakeArenal]

26. I guess not. I don't understand how anyone moves on free of guilt.

I wish it was so easy.

Male politicians think women use it for birth control and inconvenience.
I think that’s specious. It may be that way for rich republicans. They are the exceptions that prove the rule.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

28. Some people do get abortions because it's inconvenient for them to be pregnant at that

time. Or just because they don't want to be pregnant anymore. And that's okay. Some people do so because of devastating health issues. That's also okay. Some people agonize over the decision, some don't. There's no universal reaction, although the majority of people who get abortions say "relief" is their primary emotion.

[LakeArenal]

34. Who are these women you speak of.

What type of relief do they feel?

Relief yes that there has been resolution but not relief they had an abortion or gave up a human for adoption?

Giving up parental rights either way is just not a decision anyone takes lightly.

I actually think taking either decision lightly is a bit cold and selfish.

[Demobrat]

39. I had an abortion.

Last edited Sun Oct 10, 2021, 03:32 PM - Edit history (1)

My reasons are mine. I felt a huge sense of relief. Relief that I didn’t have to go through with pregnancy and birth, or have an unwanted child.
Relief that I would not have to have the father in my life permanently.

Since then I have rarely thought about it. Only when the subject of abortion comes up, like now.

Then what I feel is gratitude that it was safe and legal for me, and a very strong sense that it should be that way for everyone.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

40. People who don't want to be pregnant anymore and then aren't.

They feel relief that they're not pregnant anymore.

Relief yes that there has been resolution but not relief they had an abortion or gave up a human for adoption?

Okay I think some of the difficulty we're having in communicating is that you're thinking both about abortion and adoption. People who are unexpectedly pregnant make one decision first: Whether to give birth or not. If they decide not to, they get an abortion. If they decide to give birth, they then have to decide whether to keep the child or give it up for adoption.

Giving up a child to adoption is much more fraught than getting an abortion. IMO, adoption is not "an alternative" to abortion.

Giving up parental rights either way is just not a decision anyone takes lightly.

Not everyone who is pregnant considers themselves a parent. I cannot stress how much the research shows that when people who don't want to be pregnant aren't pregnant anymore, they're relieved.

I actually think taking either decision lightly is a bit cold and selfish.

Just because a decision is easy for someone and doesn't cause them to suffer guilt, agony, indecision or difficulty does not mean they don't take it lightly. Most people who decide to access elective health-care procedures think about them carefully before they make their choice.

[jaxexpat]

45. I hear what you're saying, BUT, you know.

If you've got no uterus, your POV is irrelevant on this subject. Even empathy is inappropriate without invitation.

I'm not trying to bust your chops or put you down. I'm just pointing out how ingrained it is in our culture for men (I'm assuming you are male. If I'm wrong blame my chromosomes.) to opine on things that are solely a women's purview. It's not our finest trait.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

47. .

If you've got no uterus, your POV is irrelevant on this subject.

Even if I support any person getting abortion at any point in the pregnancy for any reason?

Even empathy is inappropriate without invitation.

What on earth does this mean, on a public discussion board?

(I'm assuming you are male. If I'm wrong blame my chromosomes.)

What would your chromosomes have to do with it?

I'm just pointing out how ingrained it is in our culture for men ... to opine on things that are solely a women's purview.

In this day and age, men can get abortions. I've helped them access abortion care.

[soldierant]

48. Perhaps, instead of talking about "the most difficult decision,"

we should be talking about "the most consequential decision" of a woman's life.

And I really do feel that any particular woman's surrounding the decision and the result are HER OWN just as her body is. Why are we even talking about it? Non-participants talking about someone else's emotions leads to talking about what someone SHOULD feel. I think that's off limits.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

49. But it's not necessarily "the most consequential decision." How can anyone say that for someone

else?

Why are we even talking about it? Non-participants talking about someone else's emotions leads to talking about what someone SHOULD feel.

Agree. Abortion for free, on demand, without apology, at any time.

[ShazzieB]

60. Thank you for your comments in this thread, WhiskeyGrinder.

I am one of those for whom deciding to have an abortion was a very clear and straightforward choice, and it annoys me when people opine about how it's "always" some huge, painful, and complicated decision. Because a) no, it's not, and b) it's quite possible to acknowledge that is IS painful and complicated for some people (and empathize with them) without insisting that it ALWAYS is that way, in every single case.

When people talk about deciding to have an abortion as if every single person's experience is always exactly the same as every other's, that negates the experience of everyone whose experience is different. If you claim it's always incredibly hard, you're negating my experience and the experience of every other person who had an abortion without agonizing or feeling guilty about it. If you insist it's a simple, unfraught choice for everyone, that negates the experience of everyone who found it to be fraught and difficult. None of this is fair to people who decide to have abortion. The truth is, we are all individuals, and no two people's decision making experiences are exactly alike.

What's more, the "abortion is always a difficult and complicated choice" trope often carries the connotation that people who are deciding to have an abortion deserve compassion instead of judgment BECAUSE it is of course such an agonizing decision that no one could be making such a choice "lightly" (whatever "lightly" means, and I'm pretty sure it means different things to different people).

This trope tends to be brought up in response to another trope common among those who don't approve of abortion, the "women want to be able to have abortions any time they feel like it because they are irresponsible and want to have all of the sex without any of the consequences" trope. That strikes me (and probably most if not all those reading this) as harsh and unfair. Unfortunately, the rebuttal tends to be along the lines of, "No, that's not true, because abortion is a haaaaaaard choice!"

The motivation for this rebuttal is all well and good, but the fact that abortion is actually NOT a hard choice for every person who is faced with an unwanted pregnancy sometimes gets lost in the desire to refute something that's harsh and unfair. Those of us who support the rights of pregnant people to make their own decisions about their own bodies need to be clear on the fact that that the ease or difficulty of making and acting on such decisions can run the gamut from agonizingly difficult to not terribly difficult at all.

Sorry to run on at such length. Sometimes I don't realize how much I have to say about an issue until after I've already produced a shocking amount of verbiage; at which point I have to figure out how to wrap things up in a coherent fashion. That's where I am with this right now, and it's getting late, so I need to bring this to a close, coherent or otherwise! On that note, I bid you adieu for now, realizing that I probably need to do some more extensive writing on this subject, in a format more befitting its complexity than a messageboard reply.

[LakeArenal]

57. What I have a problem with are things like "most" people think or do....

I have been told that you and I are discussing different things. If we are I’m not seeing it.

I certainly am not going to argue about my experience versus yours so I’ll stop now. It seems we can meet no consensus.

[Mariana]

29. The only reason someone would feel guilt

is if they believe that abortion is inherently A Very Bad Thing to do. Many people do not believe that.

[markie]

31. "The only reason someone would feel guilt"

is because others make them feel guilty...

[LakeArenal]

33. Great point Thanks.

[LakeArenal]

32. Hmmm this is just not my experience. Yours seems completely different.

I had to put a dog down. Although it had to happen I still feel guilty and think of it a lot. Im not ashamed of the things I’ve done but I have guilt. Because there is most always other options. The what if never goes away for me.

[sinkingfeeling]

63. I have no guilt about my decision to have an abortion at 9 weeks. I

shed a few tears the afternoon of it, but they were more for me than the fetus. I have rarely thought about the procedure since. The father stood by me and we had an on-again/off-again relationship for decades.
I have no regrets. No guilt, and definitely, no self-flogging.

[LakeArenal]

64. Great ... Easy peasy.

[sinkingfeeling]

66. I have never doubted my moral decision. Wonder what you would have done if

you knew your future child would be born only to die within minutes of a painful birth or condemned to live with extreme mental and physical mutations?

[LakeArenal]

67. You are the one who feels fine about it.

Feel fine about it.

It’s not a moral decision to me either. I don’t think your morals are good or bad regarding this.

It’s an emotional and medical decision to me. I don’t think god or morals have anything to do with it.

If I did I would not support your right to have an abortion.

[keithbvadu2]

27. Powerful!

[BeckyDem]

30. If a woman does not get to decide what happens to her body, she is not free.

[diverdownjt]

36. Absolutely correct and this is the

best description I have heard of reason's other than "I don't want that baby" for needed medical care of this type.
The medically necessary side of things must remain available for all of this....that happens thousands of times
a day here in the US. These idiot's just don't know what they are talking about.
The media needs to stop giving them every platform they want to spreading this shit around.

[BeckyDem]

37. Totally agree.

All these decades later and here we still are....exhausting.

[albacore]

35. We had a similar situation... son and daughter-in-law....

... and the description in the thread is accurate, but the reality is much much worse. The tears...from all of us involved....would fill swimming pools.
I never talk to anybody who is pro-forced-birth, but if I did, I'd have a hard time keeping my thumbs out of their throats when they prattle on about abortion being murder, etc.

[demigoddess]

38. what I don't get is--no exception for rape or incest!! If you are strong enough

to survive emotionally from giving birth to a rapist's baby, then there is the danger the child will find the mother later on and have to learn that they only exist because of a rape. What a burden to place on someone in this day and age. When it can be avoided. Such idiot Texas lawmakers.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

41. I'm as pro-abortion as they come and I don't understand this argument, tbh.

Why is finding out you're the result of a rape and your mother chose to give birth to you a burden? Something to "protect" someone from?

[Hekate]

43. What a very odd and detached thing to say

[WhiskeyGrinder]

46. Help me out. CW -- rape scenario.

A college student is raped by her boyfriend, finds out she's pregnant. Dumps the guy but doesn't press charges for any number of reasons. Ponders her choices -- she has resources, but knows abortion isn't the right choice for her. So she ponders whether to give it up for adoption, decides that's also not right for her. Her family is supportive, so she finds a way to raise her child with the help of family members, and after graduating sets out as a single parent. As the child ages, the mom explains in age-appropriate ways why the dad isn't in the kid's life.

We have no say in our ancestors. Why is this any more of a burden than "we got divorced when you were two" or "we're divorcing now"?

[Ilsa]

51. "with the help of family members and after graduating..."

You probably don't believe me, but many parents aren't supportive of a daughter who gets pregnant, and many times step mothers and stepfathers aren't either. There are parents who kick out their 14 year old kids for being gay. Others slut-shame their daughters even if it was stranger rape.

Another consideration is that the rapist may someday decide he wants into the child's life, and a judge with a warped sense of morality approves joint custody. That means that woman is forced to have her rapist in her life.

Now, do we have to go through a checklist of circumstances, or can we just leave it to the woman to do what's best for herself and her family?

BTW, I'm related to someone in the situation of being a child of rape. The family tried their best, but it took four decades for this child born of date rape to come to terms with it. Being born because of an act of hateful violence not as easy as you make it out to be. The premise of being born not of love, but hate, is a heavy cross to bear.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

52. I do believe you, because I know it happens.

People can be terrible when their kids get pregnant.

Now, do we have to go through a checklist of circumstances, or can we just leave it to the woman to do what's best for herself and her family?

I am always for the person who is pregnant to make the decision that is right for them. I was just hoping that someone could expand on the idea that "they only exist because of a rape" being a "burden," every time.

Being born because of an act of hateful violence not as easy as you make it out to be.

I am sorry to see that people are feeling things because of things I did not say. I don't think a person should feel like a burden because one parent was a rapist. My ideal is that if a person decides to carry a pregnancy as a result of rape to term, they have the support such that the offspring is not seen as nor feels like a burden. I don't think it should be an automatic assumption that they are, that's all.

[Ilsa]

56. Thank you. We can wish for everyone to be emotionally healthy.

It doesn't mean that there cannot be special circumstances, even genetic ones, that interfere. It's up to the woman to decide if her culture puts her and potential offspring at a disadvantage in the near future or much later.

We know now that children born to mothers who suffer trauma, like the Holocaust, are prone to having altered stress profiles. It's intergenerational trauma. There are genetic effects we don't fully understand yet. I wish for a mate's DNA to give my child the best shot at being happy. As a mother, I don't want to share my DNA with a rapist as we really don't know what they are passing on. As a person, I don't want the DNA of a rapist as part of my genetic makeup.

I don't know if I can further explain how repugnant it is, or how that might affect someone.

[ShazzieB]

58. I get it, Ilsa.

I never even thought about the implications of trauma or the DNA ramifications you mention, but I absolutely understand what you're saying and how that might feel. I can also understand how some women in that situation could feel completely differently, because humans are complicated creatures and we're not all going to feel the same way in a given set of circumstances.

All of this just underlines for me the need to make abortion legal, period, rather than defining certain conditions under which it is allowable. Any time you make rules about which abortions are legal (and which ones aren't), you set up a situation where someone other than the pregnant person gets to decide whether that person is going to be allowed to make their own choice. That is just not right, imo.

No one should have the power to make these decisions for someone else, imo. Especially not the government.

[Ilsa]

69. Amen. nt

[Demobrat]

68. My dad is a doctor

My dad is a fireman

My dad writes books

My dad is a rapist

This is why

[WhiskeyGrinder]

70. Lmaooooo

[Demobrat]

50. Can you not imagine what it would be like

to know you were an unwanted child? The unwanted result of an act of violence? That you were conceived and born only because your mother had no choice?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

53. But if the person who is pregnant decides with full support to bear and keep the child, is that

an unwanted child? Unexpected does not have to mean unwanted. I am not talking about kids who are born because their parent had not choice. I'm talking about kids who are born because their parents decide to bring them into the world, even if the conception was against their will. When those offspring are a result of active choices, are they burdens?

[Demobrat]

54. You are describing a rainbows and unicorns scenario.

In which case the mother’s CHOICE to bear and keep the child is all very well - for her.

That’s why it’s called choice.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

55. I mean, it does happen.

I realize I read the comment I responded to a little off -- they were speaking specifically about the Texas law, while the OP was talking about their own experience, and I was following the OP lead, rather than the Texas law. But it's important to remember that people who become pregnant as a result of rape can and do choose to bear and parent their kids, and it's possible to raise a kid without being weird about how they were conceived; the conditions of conception aren't an automatic "burden."

[LakeArenal]

65. Choice. Between woman and doctor.

[Hekate]

42. In the dark days before Roe, that & life of the mother,was the universal exception, as far as I know

The laws did enough to make an unwanted pregnancy a misery — but those circumstances would have been the final blows of brutality.

And now look at Texas — no exceptions. Prize cows have more value than women.

[NotANeocon]

59. Dr Tiller -

The one the sacred woman haters called "Tiller the killer" repeated this story several times a week for years until he was finally killed by a man who claimed superior ethics and morals. A man without a uterus need I add.