A Condo Board Fought a 9/11 Responder Over His Shoes. Now It Has a Bigger Problem: the DOJ

[Jilly_in_VA]

An apparently intractable conflict between a Florida condo board and a disabled 9/11 responder over him leaving his shoes outside his front door has become so toxic that the federal government has stepped in to try and resolve it.

Charlie Burge worked for the New York City Department of Sanitation for 35 years, first hitting the pavement in 1981 and eventually overseeing nighttime operations in North Brooklyn. On September 11, 2001, Burge ran across the Brooklyn Bridge to help out at the World Trade Center when he saw the buildings burning. He spent more than 400 days clearing debris at ground zero, then sifting through it at the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island—where the wreckage was being sent by the truckload—for victims’ belongings and human remains.

Burge was subsequently diagnosed with seven health conditions, including upper respiratory issues, gastrointestinal ailments, skin cancer, and PTSD, that federal officials have certified are related to cleanup work at the World Trade Center site. Sometimes he has difficulty breathing and swallowing, and now must always keep an EpiPen on hand for emergencies.

When Burge retired in 2015, he and his wife, Anna, moved to Florida. They planned to live out their golden years, peacefully, at the Links South at Harbour Village, a condominium complex in Ponce Inlet, south of Daytona Beach, where the couple had purchased an apartment seven years earlier. To make sure no irritants get trapped inside their home, the Burges don’t have curtains, upholstered furniture, any pets, or carpeting of any kind.

In order to avoid needlessly aggravating Charlie’s symptoms, the two began leaving their shoes in the hallway outside their apartment—on a doctor’s advice—to help keep out outdoor allergens like pollen, mold, dust, and grasses that could trigger respiratory distress. Their door is set back from the outdoor passageway by several feet, and the shoes were not in a place where they could block anyone’s path, they said.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-a-petty-condo-feud-over-911-responder-charlie-burges-shoes-now-has-the-doj-involved?ref=home
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Condo boards and HOAs = wannabe nazis

[secondwind]

1. Some folks just don't have anything better to do..........what useless existence.

[RKP5637]

2. This sounds way over the top by the condo board. I think many would make

an exception for this.

[Bev54]

3. That is a big problem with condo boards, it is those who want to dictate how

others live their lives, that sign up for the job, and usually have way too much time on their hands to make up rules. Too many of them are like nazis and dictators.

[jimfields33]

4. The rules are clear when you move in

However, perhaps a nice box the shoes could be kept in could pass the HOA board. It’s worth an ask.

[Demovictory9]

24. my thought also. I'd install a enclosed box INSIDE and store my shoes there. or plastic bags

or something.

[Ms. Toad]

37. Rules can't violate fair housing law.

Whether they are clear when you move in or not.

[jimfields33]

38. I totally understand and agree.

The HOAs have numerous lawyers pour over every word of the laws. I’m part of a 2800 single home gated community so the HOA is strong and enforced. However, this situation may be smaller HOA and maybe a box for the shoes could be a compromise.

[Ms. Toad]

39. I doubt it.

A box for shoes would look more like like someone permanently not quite settled.

The correspondence, and what they have demanded in terms of proof is wholly inappropriate. It's pretty clear to me they are not in a settling mood.

[jimfields33]

40. Could very well be true.

[snowybirdie]

5. I have similar

accommodations in Florida. Just wondering why they didn't leave shoes on their screened lanai outside? Or put up a small chest or shelf to hold the shoes more attractively? Seems like were not getting the entire story.

[greenjar_01]

6. The guy next door was on the Andrea Doria

[twodogsbarking]

7. When Karens unite.

This is what happens.

[womanofthehills]

8. Sounds like he had multiple chemical sensitivities too

Shoes are big for tracking pesticides (lawn herbicides) into houses.

Track-in and take-home of pesticides used outdoors can contribute to pesticide exposure indoors and can likely be reduced by such simple measures as removing shoes at door entries and

using

doormats.
• Once pesticide residues are indoors, cleaning may reduce levels. Bare floors are easiest to clean and, for carpets, vacuuming with a power brush in combination with steam cleaning may be an effective way to reduce pesticide residues by reducing dust accumulation. https://www.ncceh.ca/sites/default/files/Residential_Exposure_to_Pesticides_Toolkit_Oct_2011.pdf

[RAB910]

9. I have to side with the Condo board

Last edited Tue Oct 12, 2021, 02:51 PM - Edit history (1)

seems like Burge wants special privilege. Nothing is stopping him from putting a box just INSIDE his door to place shoes in

[MineralMan]

12. It seems to me like his "violations" do not rise to the level

where neighbors should be bothered by them, frankly. A little slack here is called for, I think.

[RAB910]

18. why? They have a specific rule about stacking crap in front of your door

if they make an exception for him, why shouldn't other people get the same exception? At that point, the rule becomes meaningless

[harumph]

23. A pair of shoes isn't exactly a "stack of crap."

If it were empty boxes or other debris interfering with the hallway - I'd take your point.
You seriously wouldn't grant these two an exception?

[RAB910]

41. it wasn't a "pair of shoes" they had a rack with many pairs of shoes

[MineralMan]

25. Yeah...I see where you are coming from.

Oh, well...

[Generic Brad]

26. One of the residents actually stacks crap outside his door. Literal crap.

The condo board president parks a baby stroller outside his/her unit according to the story. If those things can be done, the rule is not being evenly applied.

[democrattotheend]

57. Because it's required by the Americans with Disabilities Act

Under the ADA, exceptions to policies have to be made to provide reasonable accommodations, unless doing so would pose an undue hardship. I can't see how letting him put his shoes outside is an undue hardship to the condo association here. By your logic, places that have a no animals policy wouldn't have to accommodate service animals because it would be "making an exception."

[RAB910]

58. What exactly is his disability that says he MUST put his shoes outside his condo

rather than in a box inside his condo by the front door. Medically and scientifically speaking there is none.

[lagomorph777]

13. Glad I don't live in your neighborhood.

[RAB910]

17. I am glad as well

[marybourg]

15. I think you meant "inside his door". Yeah, I was wondering,

why couldn’t they have compromised on a covered shoe bin outside the door. He’s keeping a messy pile of shoes, not just today’s pair. But they make neat bins for shoes.

[Ms. Toad]

29. Messy pile?

The shoes are in the alcove by his door, stacked on a 2-tier rack designed to hold shoes.

Scroll down to the second image in the story.

[marybourg]

33. The picture I saw had no rack. Just 3 or so pairs of shoes

messily falling over each other.

[Ms. Toad]

35. Look again.

[marybourg]

36. Yeah, that looks somewhat neater. The picture I saw

was a tight shot of the door, with the shoes sloppily laying around. A rack is an improvement. A front-opening covered rack would be even better.

I wonder how he takes those laced-up shoes off and puts them on without a seat. Maybe he brings a chair out to do that. I mostly wear slip-ons to facilitate that procedure, but I also have a chair in my garage where I change my shoes. He has no garage of course. Or does he?

[fescuerescue]

52. oh the horror!

Yea. The Condo board definitely needs to fight that one to the Supreme Court.

Maybe appeal to the UN and get UN troops sent in.

[Hekate]

22. The point is: his doc told him to leave shoes outside. Really.

[RAB910]

42. The shoes could easily be placed in a container inside his condo

they don't need to be placed "outside" the condo. Frankly the idea that all sorts of airborne pollution is being brought in via shows is a bunch of BS, scientifically speaking

[Ms. Toad]

28. Inside the door brings the irritants inside the house.

The point is to keep them out.

Do you know any first responders with the kind of lung-related conditions this man has? I do, and he has nearly died a number of times (would have, but for his medical knowledge whichwas why he was a first responder in the first place).

The condo board is required to make reasonable accommodations for his disability. It is violating the law.

[RAB910]

43. first off the "irritants" brought in via shoes is negligible scientifically speaking

there would be no difference if he placed his shoes in a container inside his condo or leaves them outside the condo. However this guy wants special treatment because he claims to be a 9/11 first responder, so facts don't really matter

[Politicub]

55. Do these people walk around naked as to avoid contaminates on their clothes?

It sounds like someone is feeding the first responder a crock of garbage. Or, he's fortifying what his doctor is saying with bullshit from Facebook.

Communal living isn't for everyone in every situation.

It's like buying a walk-up, getting older, and then not being able to walk up flights of stairs to get to the front door. Sometimes where someone wants to live isn't compatible with changing needs.

[FSogol]

45. Special privilege? More like a reasonable accommodation. The ADA code should cover him which is why

the Feds are getting involved.

[RAB910]

46. It's BS. Shoes are not a signficant source of indoor air pollutants

nor would there be any difference in pollutant levels if the shoes were kept in a box inside the condo or outside the condo

[Maraya1969]

10. The next time I move I am setting up a way to leave my shoes outside or in an entrance

room. The more I think about the crap we step in all day and then walk it right into our houses the more it grosses me out.

And I've been to places where shoes are removed and it is really nice. In Japan we took our shoes off at the entrance of our hotel room and then when we went to the bathroom down the hall, (It was my Buddhist church's huge hotel that was being used for a world wide congregation) we again took our shoes off and put on the plastic sandals to go into the bathroom or shower room.

It made everything seem more sanitary.

[marybourg]

16. Why wait? It's easy to do. I've been doing it for decades,

everywhere I lived. I have outside shoes and inside shoes.

[Maraya1969]

19. That's a good point.

[JHB]

30. The Japanese term for that is "genkan", although they're not limited to Japan

[NQAS]

11. I have to admit I feel a little silly posting a comment on this. . .

Okay, Mr. Burge has severe allergies, maybe due to 9/11, maybe not, but still very severe. Sounds awful.

When he puts his boots on in the morning, does he do so in the hallway? Do the boots ever make their way into the house? If not, that's a seriously well-disciplined person. But if the boots come in to be put on, then his request unravels.

Some posters have mentioned a shelf. Sounds like a decent suggestion. What about an small box inside the apartment. Boots off outside the door, boots carried in and place in box by the door. I'm not an expert on allergens, but I would think that such a brief time in the open air by his doorway wouldn't be a problem.

And, what about this? Why not buy a top-end HEPA filter air cleaner? That, together with a box by the doorway, would seem to solve the problem.

They do seem to be discriminating against him, for whatever reason. The stroller left outside the door or the dog shit left outside, presumably to be picked up and disposed of later. If that goes on, then shoes shouldn't be a big deal.

I'm sure this kind of crap has gone on for decades. Heck, the BTK killer measured people's grass and fined people if it was higher than the approved limit. And maybe it's no worse than it has been previously. But the internet brings this sort of nonsense into our lives daily. So to say that we live in what I call a savage nation now, and we didn't previously, is probably wrong. But I'll say it anyway. We live in a savage nation. There is no shame, and intransigence and doubling down is the default response to everything. What sad little lives some people live.

[Captain Stern]

14. With HOA's, you pays your money, and takes your chances.

The rules are usually very clear, and you get to read those rules before you sign up.

If the rules are senseless (and they often are), then don't move in. Don't assume that there will be a board full of reasonable people that will look into the intent of the rule. That usually doesn't happen.

Here's why that usually doesn't happen....It's because usually the folks in a given community that would be great HOA board members have absolutely no interest in doing it, and the folks that are absolutely interested in being HOA board members are going to suck at it.

[Vinca]

20. After reading stories like this and the stories of the condo that collapsed

because repairs were delayed by reluctance to pay, I would never in a million years buy a condo. Too bad really. It would be a great option late in life.

[LeftInTX]

21. Geez us...That condo is crazy...I read the complaint from the DOJ.

Here are the shoes. (I was wondering how many were being stored outside the door, so I went looking)

The condo was trying to do an actual "disability determination" themselves which is a huge no-no...


[url=http://postimg.cc/SYMsWQR5][img][/img][/url]

[Hassin Bin Sober]

27. The guy clearly wants to use the hallway as a shoe closet.

He wouldn’t be the first and he won’t be the last. My neighbor used to do the same thing - she would leave her stroller in the hallway and pile shoes in the hallway and pile stuff she was planning on placing in storage but leave it there for weeks. No one bothered to say anything because we were too busy with life to argue with her. But she really took advantage.

He could very easily place a plastic tote inside his door. Good lord. The drama.

It’s a common area and his neighbors don’t want to see his shoe closet.

[Celerity]

32. to post a pic do not use the link button, that is only for embedding links in text

this yields



also, do not forget to trim the url if need be, as this old board software will display superfluous things (you see this all the time when people post tweets for example)

like this (they did not trim off the ?s=20)



cheers

[madville]

31. Why can't they place the shoes in an airtight bag?

And set them inside? Seems like that would be the simple solution. If you don’t like the HOA rules, don’t live in that HOA or petition the board to change the rules you agreed to.

[RAB910]

44. because he claims to be a 9/11 first responder and wants special treatment

[Jilly_in_VA]

47. Unnecessarily nasty n/t

[RAB910]

49. I am a 9/11 first responder

Spent the entire day on the Jersey City waterfront right across from ground zero (just a couple of hundred yards away) breathing in that nasty gray dust (late that night when I got home I blew my nose and got all that black stuff coming out).

Do you want to know how much I have tried to play on my status to gain privilege and advantage over others???


I have no use for people trying to play on being a first responder (sanitation is not a first response unit even) to game the system

[Jilly_in_VA]

50. You don't know

what he had to clean up. Try to have some sympathy. It doesn't say he's a "first responder", it says he was a responder. Big difference. It could be the way the news story is slanted. Even sanitation workers who were on the scene had a LOT of toxic shit to deal with.

[RAB910]

51. The DOJ lawsuit plays up his 9/11 response in a big big way

Here is the thing, the people on the pile were firefighters, rescue, police, and EMS, not sanitation. He likely did drive a truck that whole the debris to the Fish Kil site. I have seen pictures of the people sorting through the garbage. They were wearing suits, gloves, masks, and boots. So there wasn't any exposure there.

If you read the lawsuit by the DOJ it's one mention of 9/11 after another. It's not hard to spot the BS and the "I am a 9/11 responder give me privilege" game.

[Politicub]

56. Probably because he or someone he knows read a shitpost on Facebook about contaminated shoes.

And now that has become his truth.

I would also imagine he found a quack doctor to write him a note.

[xmas74]

61. My allergist recommends not bringing my shoes in the house

During certain times of the year. We live in a heavy agricultural area and between the nasty ragweed and the chemical pesticides sprayed on the crops he has said it's a good idea to not track in anything, as a precaution. I'm also supposed to shower at night and not in the morning. He said to try smaller changes and see if they help at all, along with my allergy shots and asthma meds.

A friend has it much worse, more like the gentleman in the article. She's retired Army.

[Politicub]

62. I'm sorry you have that condition.

It must be tough to take care of basic things without a lot of forethought.

Hugs to you.

[xmas74]

63. Mine isn't that bad

I get around. I just need to take simple measures.

[marmar]

34. Sounds like some crap the condo board in my complex would pull.

[Jilly_in_VA]

48. It wasn't a condo board, but

I dealt with a management company when I was a travel nurse in Alexandria, VA, in the apartment complex I was stuck in, that was just as bad or maybe worse. They had a myriad of RULES about what you could have on your balcony (every apartment had one) which I was not issued, BTW, and would send someone around every TWO WEEKS to look at the balconies and send out notes to say, "You're in violation of the rules because you have THIS on your balcony." Except how they did it was the person who looked at the balconies stood outside and COUNTED them and more often than not got the apartment numbers wrong. I can't tell you how many times in 13 weeks I got gigged for stuff on my balcony that I didn't even OWN, much less have on my balcony!

There were other inconveniences too, including the fact that the elevator was broken the last 4 weeks that I lived in my third floor apartment, including the day I was moving, and the fact that I could not adjust my thermostat at all and ended up having to have the screen door to my balcony and my bedroom window open in MARCH just to maintain a decent temperature. I complained so much to my recruiter that my company eventually called the management and canceled all future contracts.

Name of management company and complex will be furnished to anyone considering moving to or within Alexandria. Message me via DU Mail. I wouldn't want anyone else to have to deal with these people.

[Happy Hoosier]

53. Why not store them in a sealed box in the apartment?

I used to do that with my clothes I wore as a fire fighter.... so they wouldn't stink up the house after a particularly sweaty-sooty fire.

[Patton French]

54. In a recessed doorway..

..seems a silly thing to go off on him about, expecially given all his documented medical issues. Too much time on their hands.

[orleans]

59. i live in a condo and we have those hallway rules also

we also have a board & a management company

there was discussion regarding hallway shoes (shoes left outside the doors) and the biggest reason against that is that those shoes can be a TRIP HAZARD. if there was a fire, if all the electric went out and the hallways went dark anyone trying to get out of their door could trip over the shoes and fall. (in the case of the picture in the article, the shoe rack could get kicked in the dark/chaos, send a shoes flying into a pathway, turn the rack and create a more of a trip hazard.

ALSO, hallways are common areas and if someone trips and falls in the common area they could sue the association. (don't know how successful they would be; someone at my place did it when they tripped on a rug by the front door--and went to the hospital over it; don't know if they were successful or not)

i'm sure a lot of the condo people are more concerned about appearance rather than the possible injury factor but i imagine that by allowing for shoes (and there would be no guarantee they would always be kept safely out of the way) i would think it also has something to do with the insurance the association pays for. (our insurance company has a lot of rules/requirements we have to adhere to so that our the insurance rates are kept reasonable)

we've had young mothers asking if they can keep their baby strollers on the ground floor, under the stairs and were told no. instead, they have to either leave it in their garage or carry the stroller up the stairs. i don't see that as fair either--storing a baby stroller under the first floor stairs leading to the second floor is not a trip hazard for first floor residents--no one will be running under the staircase to exit the building in case of a fire.

i understand why this man wants his shoes kept out of his living space. if they could rig up one of those hanging shoe storage things (the kind that i have hanging in my closet) on that piece of wall next to their door then the trip hazard is eliminated. but will the board allow for that?

also, after reading the article i saw the man walks across a golf coarse to get to the beach, and mentioned how the grass there is chemically treated--and wants the chemicals to wear off his shoes rather than tracking them inside. i would recommend he find another route to the beach. and since their condo overlooks the golf course they might consider finding a new place to live where the smell of the chemicals aren't wafting up into their living space. (it drives me insane when our lawn mowing company chemically treats our lawns. it gives me a problem breathing and is terrible for wildlife and dogs who get walked. i've complained about it and suggested skipping chemical treatments but no one wants to see dandelions and clover--except for me apparently.)

[csziggy]

60. With his sensitivities, why move to a golf course community in Florida?

Florida has very high levels of allergens, no matter what part of the state you live in, and as mentioned in the article, golf courses are well known for the amounts of chemicals they use. His choice of location and residence do not seem reasonable for someone with the sensitivities his doctor has documented.

My husband's uncle had high levels of sensitivities that affected his health badly. He and his wife ended up moving to a community outside of Santa Fe, New Mexico, where no non-native plantings were allowed. With the desert air and native plants, he did very well for years. Unfortunately, in Santa Fe itself, the planting of non-native plants and pollution, he could not spend much time. His wife had to do all the trips into town for him. He'd changed his career from an attorney to a professional photographer and was noted for this wonderful images of the natural New Mexico scenery.

I'm surprised the man in the article did not get the same kind of recommendation from his doctors!