10-Year-Old With COVID Dies After Mom Given Choice to Amputate Limbs or 'Let Him Go'

[ecstatic]

A 10-year-old boy passed away on Wednesday after a two-week battle with COVID-19 and complications from the virus.

Zyrin Foots, a 10-year-old boy from Texas, developed Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome (MIS-C) after contracting COVID-19. A rare condition, MIS-C causes inflammation in children's organs, including the heart, and the inability of Foots' heart to pump blood caused him to develop gangrene in his legs.

Gangrene causes body tissue to die and can be fatal if left untreated, and the treatment can result in the loss of a body part. Ashley Engmann, Foots' aunt, told KTRK-TV that doctors gave her sister, Foots' mother, a choice. She could amputate his arms and legs, which would give him a 25 percent chance of survival. Without the amputation, Engmann said the 10-year-old didn't have "any chance to live."

Foots' mom made the difficult decision to "let him go," according to Engmann, because she saw it as the most "humane and compassionate thing she can do for her child."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/10-year-old-with-covid-dies-after-mom-given-choice-to-amputate-limbs-or-let-him-go/ar-AAPzfrK

This is absolutely horrifying. I can't imagine what that mom must be going through right now.

[AllyCat]

1. 25% chance of survival WITH amputations.

Cannot imagine being in her position, but completely support her decision.

Heartbreaking. All because the MAGAts cannot conceive of protecting the public and actually BEING "pro-life".

[joetheman]

47. Does the family have a GoFundMe page? How do I or we start one? nt

[NurseJackie]

55. I imagine that a close friend or family member would be the one to do that.

[LisaL]

66. Family already has a go fund me.

NT

[ecstatic]

84. Yes:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/zyrins-funeral?qid=b4f8b164e0387f001a324c143c013371

[frogmarch]

2. Why was the mom given a choice?

Because it was a matter of life and death, couldn't the doctors have just gone ahead with the amputation?

[ecstatic]

6. I agree.

I don't think she should have been asked to make that decision.

[Wingus Dingus]

7. No, I don't think they could have.

I would have gone ahead with the surgeries, but that's a horrible choice she had to make, I hope she can find peace with it.

[LiberatedUSA]

8. That is a good question.

Do they normally give choices in life or death situations or do they normally just act to save and go from there? Like would they ask the family of a car crash victim in the ER, “ok, we could save them, but they’ll be paralyzed. Pull the plug?”

[whopis01]

81. If the patient is able to make decision then they have to give them the choice

In this case, the mother is the guardian and is responsible for making those decisions for her child.

In the example you gave, if the family member had medical power of attorney, then they could refuse the procedure on behalf of the injured relative. Typically spouses automatically have medical power of attorney, but other family members would not in the case of an adult.

This doesn't mean that the doctors have to seek out a family member in order to get consent. But if a guardian, or other person with medical power of attorney is objecting to the procedure, then they can't proceed with it. So in the case of a sudden, traumatic injury, there is much less chance of someone else being present to object to the procedure than is the case with a disease that is progressing over a longer period of time.

[Crunchy Frog]

105. If the treatment is that extreme and the likelihood of survival that low.

I think the guardian should be allowed to make that choice if the child isn't able to express an opinion.

I honestly don't know what I would do.

[LiberatedUSA]

107. It certainly is no way to live. N/t

[mucifer]

9. You can't do surgery without parental consent unless you get a court order. Considering the

poor prognosis I am glad no one tried that.

[soldierant]

57. THIS

[Rebl2]

118. Exactly

[marybourg]

11. Because he was a minor, the parent was given the choice

that an adult would have been given for himself. Nobody would amputate all four of a person’s limbs without asking the person if that’s what they want. Here, the parent stood in for the child to make the decision

[malaise]

14. As hard a decision as that was

I would have done the same

[sinkingfeeling]

19. I agree.

[Fla Dem]

35. Yes, as would I. If they said survival was at least 75%, maybe would feel different.

But for that poor 10 year boy to lose all his limbs and probably be very health compromised IF he survived, would have been cruel to him.

[malaise]

37. Precisely - not for 25% chance of survival

Last edited Fri Oct 15, 2021, 02:38 PM - Edit history (3)

Still that must have been a very painful decision

[ShazzieB]

63. I absolutely agree.

I would have made the same choice, and my heart goes out to that mom.

25% chance of survival? Yeesh.

[Mariana]

98. And what kind of survival?

The story doesn't address the issue of brain damage, but I suspect it's likely.

[stopdiggin]

121. that's where my mind went too

suspect that there are other potential long term consequences involved here. So - a 25% shot at - a pretty crappy outcome.

[obamanut2012]

49. I would have too, Malaise

As hard as it is, sometimes the loving thing is to say goodbye and let go. The parents did the best and most loving thing they could for their little boy.

Tragic.

[marybourg]

53. Me too.

[wryter2000]

70. Same here

Amputate his limbs and watch him die of something else? No thanks.

[calimary]

75. Yep. Just imagining myself in her place for a moment.

What kind of life could a previously normal and active ten-year-old expect to have with multiple amputations? One amputation? Perhaps of a leg? I’d imagine the mom would have sadly and reluctantly approved. I know from 40+ years of personal experience (not me but someone near and dear) that a leg amputation, at least “BK” (below the knee) need not hold anybody back.

But more than that? A second limb? That’s awfully hard. Although people do recover and carry on. Max Cleland lost both legs and an arm in Vietnam. He went on not only to recover but thrive, even campaigning for, and winning, a seat in the United States Senate. He became an inspiration and a role model for pretty much everybody, about pretty much everything. Lost re-election to an able-bodied waste of turd manufacture (Saxby Chambliss) who had no business even being in the Capitol building, much les in Senate chambers. On two legs.

But ALL FOUR? Max Cleland was at least old enough to have served in the military. He’d enjoyed a normal non-handicapped life into adulthood before calamity struck.

But THIS kid? Could he have made an adjustment this big? Had he been into sports? Was he physically active?

What a nightmare for that mother. And how does SHE adjust to this? A decision SHE had to make. Every mother expects her kids to outlive her. A little bit of her, deep inside, will likely always be at war with herself over this, for the rest of her life. And there will be people who can’t - or worse - won’t understand. I feel so bad for her. It hurts me just to think about her and where she is in a moment like this. Her son’s suffering is over. Hers has just begun.

[malaise]

78. But it's not only the amputations

Last edited Fri Oct 15, 2021, 06:20 PM - Edit history (1)

It's the reality that even after those amputations, the poor child has a 25% chance of survival. This is a perfect example of 'do unto others what you'd have them do unto you'.

[calimary]

94. YES!!!!!

And I hadn’t even added that in, but it absolutely IS a factor.

What kind of life would that little boy have?

And to that question, one is forced to add “… and for how long?”

Just AWFUL! OMG that poor mother. At least a little bit of her will be struggling with this for the rest of her life.

[exboyfil]

13. I hate to be a cynic but maybe the insurance wasn't that good

If they had gold plated insurance, then the doctors might have pushed more?

Just speculating.

A 10 year old child with a 1 in 4 chance seems like something that would make more sense for surgery than a lot of the end of life stuff on Medicare that will extend another few weeks or months to a 80+ year old.

[ecstatic]

32. It sounds like he wasn't given the correct care from the start.

How did the doctors allow the heart failure to go untreated to the point where his limbs developed gangrene?! The medical community was made aware of multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children at least 18 months ago.

[Fla Dem]

39. I would not like to think that as a Black child he did not get the appropriate treatment.

I would not want any child not to get the best care possible.

[LisaL]

59. And? Being aware and being able to cure are two different things.

You are making assumptions without evidence.

[ShazzieB]

64. Amen to this.

[stopdiggin]

122. 100%

we could stand to tamp down on the 'outrage factor.'

[KT2000]

62. Remember the actor

who had his leg(s) amputated. He was on a ventilator but that was not enough to get oxygen to his legs. He died anyway but after month of suffering.
I think this is part of the illness - inflammatory syndrome and clots beyond the scope of blood thinners.

[LisaL]

65. Yes, he still died even after an amputation.

Nick Cordero was his name.

[wnylib]

76. That's the nature of multi system inflammatory syndrome.

It is very rare. It can develop very quickly. It can be stopped in some cases IF it is recognized very early, but early symptoms are mild and don't seem threatening. Once it progresses, it is not reversible, as far as I know, unless new treatments have been developed since I first learned about it.

This affects mainly children. Only a few have survived. Nobody knows yet why some children who get covid also develop this syndrome.

Even with good covid treatment, a child can develop MSIS as a result of covid.

[catrose]

115. I read just a few days ago that it's showing up more often in kids with Covid

[wnylib]

123. I guess that's not too surprising, unfortunately, since

so many more children are getting infected now than when the pandemic started. I first heard of it early in the pandemic when NYC and the rest of NY were getting hit so hard.

[jimfields33]

79. I would never put my kid through that especially with only a 25 percent chance

Screw that. Poor mom did make the right choice.

[flying_wahini]

51. Not without permission. He was a minor.

[LisaL]

58. Because parents normally make health care decisions for minor children.

NT

[LisaL]

68. Really?

You think doctors should be able to amputate child's limbs (all of them) without parental permission?

[plimsoll]

74. Well, they asked me for my wife.

I'm not sure they have too, but they ask before amputation. Some people opt not to as you can tell. But this was last ditch probably, I think the unstated truth was that the amputations probably wouldn't have made any difference. In addition to the Covid related organ problems gangrene often leads to patients going septic. So %25 of making it through the night?

I feel for the mother. With adults you probably know the other persons wishes. This is ending theirs and yours at the same time.

And this, a child who could not get the vaccine is why adults should get it. Not be forced to through mandates, but because people who don't have options can get sick and die. I see I said adults, my bad, people eligible for the vaccine. I suspect all the adults did so.

[Botany]

3. Go get the fucking shot

[Fla Dem]

38. 10 years old. No shots available yet.

[Botany]

43. But if the grown ups in Texas (and across America) had gotten vaccinated and everybody had ....

... masked up there is a very good chance that young man would not have gotten the disease. The delta
variant wave is the result of idiots who thought that they knew more science and medicine then the likes
of Dr. Fauci so they became hosts and incubators for the new strain (delta) of the virus.

[USALiberal]

41. NOT ELEGIBLE!

[Botany]

45. The only "good" that might come from this tragedy is that maybe when the vaccine is available to ...

.... 5-11 years olds in a few weeks more people will make sure their kids get it.

[GoCubsGo]

48. And, put on a goddamn mask.

[Jerry2144]

4. IT makes me more angry

At Fux "News", The repugnant Republicans, and their ilk and the whole MAGAt crowd. This child did not have to die. If those FiretrUCKING Asswipes would just realize how bad their selfishness is and how much harm it causes to others, then maybe this child could have avoided getting exposed. THe rest of his community could have been protected by vaccines and maybe he would never have seen the virus.

I wish the mother could successfully sue Fucker Carlson for being the primary cause of her son's death

[soldierant]

61. My sentiments exactly -

and I'm a bit surprised not to see more people feeling the same.

It's quite possible tht, in Texas, it would have been impossible to keep a 10-year-old safe from CoViD without a lockdown - and I can see that may not have been possible - But I can't help feeling some anger.

[jimfields33]

80. We have no idea of the families politics. And we don't even know if

The parents were vaccinated. Stories always leave out pertinent information.

[Jerry2144]

93. Correct but

The child was too young to be eligible for a vaccine. He has to rely upon everyone else not being a carrier so that he is protected. And that is the source of my anger- those people who could be vaccinated and wear masks and social distance but do not do any of that. If the virus would only infect those people and never infect anyone else who can’t be protected, then it would be different.

That child, and the millions of other children and vulnerable people, is exactly why I am vaccinated, wear a mask, social distance, and minimize unnecessary trips into public spaces

[jimfields33]

100. I totally agree. We've always has selfish people

Now they cause death. Terrible!

[Wingus Dingus]

5. Yikes.

[Doodley]

10. This is the result of Republicans asserting their rights to be unvaccinated, and Texas is soon to

have the highest number of covid deaths in America.

[sarisataka]

18. Are the family Republican?

I don't see it mentioned in the article

[lagomorph777]

26. In Texas, it doesn't matter. The kid was living in a COVID death zone, unprotectable.

Maskless mandates, not eligible for a shot, jammed into maskless schools. Kids are sitting ducks in 3rd-world countries like Texas and Florida.

[sarisataka]

34. I had forgotten

The child wasn't eligible to be vaccinated regardless of if the family wished him to get it or not. They have been talking so much about younger ages lately I was having wishful thoughts.

[BlueLucy]

12. I support the mothers decision

25% survival with surgery not to mention the many surgeries, infections, and complications that could happen leading to death after surgery.

[LakeArenal]

16. Paraplegics live full and rewarding lives

I would not have made that choice.

But it’s the mother’s decision. I hope she can live with it. Especially watching Special Olympics.

Would the woman be able to decide if her child in Utero had developed such a condition as a child born without legs?

It’s such a dark hard decision.

[Vinca]

20. They wanted to amputate both the legs and the arms. I can imagine living as a paraplegic,

but not this horrible situation. What an awful choice for the mother, but given the odds of survival and the best outcome I think she made the right decision.

[LakeArenal]

23. Oops. I thought legs.

Sometimes there is no good solution

But my question still stands. If this was the womb...?

[Vinca]

31. Exactly. No choices there according to the Republican Taliban.

[Mariana]

110. If this was in the womb, she would have the choice.

In most states she would, at any rate. For the time being.

[hedda_foil]

21. Arms AND legs. Not paraplegic but with no limbs at all.

[LakeArenal]

25. Yes as I've been told.

[yardwork]

27. He had a 25% chance of living after amputation of both arms and legs.

And imagine the life of pain and additional surgeries even if he had lived. I would have made the same choice as the mom. Poor child. Let him pass in peace.

[LakeArenal]

85. There is no wrong choice in this.

I just think there wouldn’t be a choice given if it was in a womb.

[lagomorph777]

28. But quadriplegic? And probably dead, regardless? I'd make the same choice for myself.

[LakeArenal]

86. I never said it's a worse choice.

[Whatthe_Firetruck]

72. Legs AND arms ...

...Woulda made the kid a quadriplegic. I have seen relatively healthy quadriplegics be okay, typing or painting with stuff in their mouths, but this kid most likely would have severe health problems.

Then there's the care. Someone like this needs it round the clock, and if your family isn't well-off or have gold plated insurance, that's usually the mom. And if she has other kids, what of them? Will mom have any time for them? What about mom and her needs? Attendants can do it in shifts to get a break or respite, but a parenral caregiver has to be there 24/7. I don't know their situation.

I understand her choice, difficult as it was.

[LakeArenal]

87. Never said I don't understand her choice.

[wnylib]

83. Quadriplegic, not paraplegic.

Yes, even quadriplegics can live full and satisfying lives. But this child would also have had chronic kidney disease and eventually kidney failure, plus lung and heart disease and very likely some cognitive brain damage, plus continued possibility of blood clots and strokes as a result of the multiple systems failure that led to the need for a decision. And that's IF he beat the 25% odds.

If his parents are not rich and if they don't have a top of the line insurance policy, the child would probably not have received the follow up care necessary to sustain life, or to treat the multiple system diseases adequately, or provide him with artificial limbs (if possible in his case), or a motorized wheel chair, home hospital bed or any of the other multiple devices, medicines, and home nurses that he would have needed. The child would have vegetated and died young in the end.

She made the best decision that she could in the circumstances.

[LakeArenal]

88. Yes as I have been told seven times already.

I made an error on plegic. I never dissed her choice.

[wnylib]

89. Sorry. Did not see the other replies

while I was typing.

[LakeArenal]

90. No worries.

[Hekate]

91. In utero?I'm sorry, but that is such a false equivalency.Plus it is a LONG way from long-haul COVID

… to imagining performance in the Special Olympics as a quadriplegic with all 4 limbs gone.

25% survival rate means everything inside is pretty much wrecked. As a mother myself I would decide to simply allow my child to stop suffering.

[LakeArenal]

92. Please read previous. I erred in plegic.

I wish this woman the best. Not the worst.


Maybe you can’t see it but I find an equivalency in if it was not born some PTB would leave a woman no choice but to bear this child.

[Hortensis]

97. Horrible decision, but the choice was not between living without limbs or death.

She was at least spared the burden of even briefly facing that decision. If the authorities in hospital and government believed the surgeries could give her child a viable chance at life, his mother would not have been offered this final choice.

The choice was whether to amputate when it was believed by the experts that this last, desperate effort to save his life would fail. She was allowed that choice because she was his mother and for her own sake, so she could know she did everything possible, and she chose the most "humane and compassionate thing she could do for her child."

[LakeArenal]

99. Yes no argument.

[Hortensis]

103. Sure. Some assumed she got to say if he'd live or die, is all,

no doubt too horrified to think the rest through. He was a happy, beautiful boy in his picture.

[LakeArenal]

104. It makes it hard to believe a benevolent deity somewhere.

[Hortensis]

111. Yes. I'm just enormously grateful that this virus has mostly

skipped children (though I'm no more likely to thank a diety than the virus. )

I just looked up the figures again, Lake, and was glad to see that, even with increased rates of infection in children, fewer than 700 have died since the beginning. This is compared with roughly 50,000 deaths of children from all causes during the pandemic. This little boy basically was struck by virus lightning.

And his mother also, who I rather like to think is finding some comfort in belief in a benevolent diety.

[LisaL]

112. Parental consent would be required for surgery.

NT

[Hortensis]

113. Sure, usually. If a parent refused life-saving surgery,

of course, legal alternative to parental consent would be obtained.

[LisaL]

116. Sure if the hospital felt that amputating all four limbs was

in the child's best interest, they could have gone to court.
Without hospital going to court, mother gets to decide whether to do the surgeries or not.

[Hortensis]

17. That poor mother, and her beautiful child.

Some of the most dreadful things that happen to people happen to their children. I'm glad she has family to help her.

[sarisataka]

22. Terrible choice to have to make

I will not second guess the mother's choice while comfortably sitting in my chair.

[yardwork]

24. My heart goes out to that mom and the rest of his family.

COVID-19 is a cruel disease.

[Deuxcents]

29. A most difficult decision

I hope this mother has all the support she needs as this is most definitely a life changing experience. Not one can say what they would do if confronted with a choice like this. I do hope that if I’m ever in such a position as this child was in, my family would have mercy n let me go.

[leftyladyfrommo]

30. Talk about Sophie's choice.

[Mz Pip]

33. How awful

Good thing the Texas pro-life crowd didn’t get wind of this and start protests demanding the child be kept alive at all costs against the mother’s wishes. What a circus that would have been. Terry Schiavo all over again.

Hopefully, the mother will be able to grieve in peace. What a horrible choice to be forced to make.

[wcollar]

56. Pro-Life?

Have you seen anything about Texas "Pro Lifers" that makes you think they would give a good God Damn about any child once it's out of the womb?

[Crunchy Frog]

106. If they can interfere in someone else's life and exercise power over them,

they will do it, I believe.

[lindysalsagal]

36. Proves the "life at conception" argument is an excuse to control women's lives.

NOT at attempt to preserve life.

[ShazzieB]

67. Ya think? 😉

Of course we both know the answer to that!

[calimary]

101. Yep.

[Ilsa]

40. The mother has my deepest sympathies.

I hope she can get the counseling and comfort she needs right now.

I hope everyone in Texas hears this story.

[Mysterian]

42. If there is a god, it is an evil and hateful god

There is far too much pain in the world for it to have been created by a benevolent being.

[ck4829]

46. No, certain segments of humanity created this pain

Government ignored the pandemic, it valued "owning the libs" as a higher calling.
The same government decided to disregard anything pandemic-related, since Obama created all that jazz.
Trump originally saw the pandemic as a "war" when it became an issue that affected everyone but, in typical Trump fashion, got bored with it in about 2 weeks
The state of Texas where this happened has shown breathtaking incompetence on this issue
And our healthcare system as a whole, I bet if we got away from it being profit-oriented and more aimed at therapies and cures regardless of money of patients or money in the bank of institutions, I bet we have medical technology that would replace the boy's heart function or limbs.

[Crunchy Frog]

108. Or an indifferent one.

[joetheman]

44. My heart aches so much for her. The very thought of having to make this choice is making me ill. n

[calimary]

95. It's every mother's nightmare. Every father's, too.

This one cuts deep.

[flying_wahini]

50. I think she did the right thing. So horrible for them all to go thru something so terrible.

[progressoid]

52. OMG. This is awful.

I can't imagine what she's going through.

[madaboutharry]

54. I would have made the same decision.

May he Rest In Peace. I hope his family will be embraced with love and support.

[Skittles]

60. anti-vax, "pro-life" folk DO.NOT.CARE.

nope

[samnsara]

69. the strength that mom had...amazes me!

[LittleGirl]

71. My sincere condolences to the boy's family.

Just heartbreaking.

[Patton French]

77. Unthinkable and horrific (n/t)

[Hekate]

82. Pass gently, little guy, & may Mom find peace. COVID complications are horrific ...

… and what happened to him is a known complication.

With only 25% possibility of survival after even extreme mutilation, and with 100% certainty of extreme suffering — as a mother I would have made the same decision.

[Greybnk48]

96. How horrific. The mom made the right choice.

25% of survival even with quadruple amputation? That poor kid, and that poor mom (and dad, and family).

[Dorian Gray]

102. Jesus fucking christ.

that poor baby.

[BadGimp]

109. My heart goes out to the family...

[BeckyDem]

114. I will never understand those who underestimate this virus.

Never.

[PatrickforB]

117. For a child, waking up knowing he will have to

spend the rest of his life with only a torso, would be a fate worse than death.

To me, it is quality of life, not life itself, that is sacred. That is why we have do not resuscitate orders and living wills. This is why several states allow assisted suicides in cases where there is a terminal diagnosis with growing agonizing pain.

Prayers with that mom.

[LisaL]

119. People can live a successful life after amputation of all four limbs.

In this child's case, he likely had damage to his other organs. We know his heart was damaged. If the heart wasn't pumping blood well, his brain could have been damaged as well. If he survived, his life would most likely be extremely difficult.
I think this was the right decision, to not continue to let him suffer.

[PatrickforB]

126. Yeah, it was the right decision. Nothing good about it, though. That poor mother must be devastated.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

120. Pro-birth Texas makes it obvious

That already born children are not worth saving, no matter what.

[orleans]

124. what an absolute nightmare -- even beyond nightmare. nt

[ismnotwasm]

125. Had a patient with all limbs amputated due to sepsis

She’s studying to be a lawyer.


But not every person or situation is the same, and I wouldn’t presume to judge that mother.

[dalton99a]

127. Kick