Incarcerate Steve Bannon

[H2O Man]

One of the most interesting and important discussions going on in this country has to do with if the Department of Justice will prosecute those ignoring subpoenas from the Congressional Committee investigating the January 6 insurrection. I was pleased to hear President Biden say that they will prosecute. This is a good thing, as prosecuting people like Steve Bannon is essential.

Yesterday, my little sister contacted me about this. She had read where some people were expressing doubt that Attorney General Merrick Garland would pursue the criminal referrals. She asked me about the process -- both the history and how it might unfold in the current situation. I said I wanted to look up some information on the history before the Committee votes on Tuesday to bring it to the full House.

A short time later, my little sister told me that she had read a "tweet" by Jill Wine-Banks that gave her confidence. I noted that Jill is brilliant, and always an important source of accurate information. While I've seen others express pretty much the same thing, I put a lot of trust in the Watergate Girl's opinion.

At the same time, I know that some in the media will try to add drama to what is happening, when no more drama need be added. A Department of Justice official says that the DOJ will evaluate any referral, and decide to either pursue it or not. In a very real sense, he was saying the correct thing -- a president should not influence DOJ policy on legal matters. Trump was correctly attacked for doing exactly that.

Apparently, Rep. Ted Lieu expressed some frustration that the DOJ and justice system is moving slowly on action against those defying subpoenas. But this is not a "controversy" that some media attempted to portray. It goes to the full House for a vote, before sending the referral to the DOJ. Steve Bannon's will be the first actual referral to the current DOJ. We all recognize that the Trump DOJ was corrupt, likely criminally so in several instances. But it's a different playing field for Bannon, with no Trump to pardon him.

Rep. Lieu discussed proposals to increase Congress's ability to enforce subpoenas without involving either of the other branches of the federal government. A person can agree or disagree with parts or all of the proposals he spoke of. In evaluating such things, one should keep in mind that there are both positive and negative potentials with such changes -- and with not changing.

Since the issue of people failing to honor their legal duty to appear before the committees that haved subpoenaed them during the last administration, and at the start of this one, it should concern all of us. As citizens who recognize that our opposition wants to deny us our rights -- starting with the right to vote and have all votes counted -- we should be informed about the process that begins to unfold tomorrow. I am sure that there are others here who are better informed than me, but I still wanted to share a link to a site I find helpful:

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/RL34097.pdf

It is a report on by legislative attorney Todd Garvey, that provides a good amount of information. Garvey has served in that position in the American Law Division of the Congressional Research Division since 2009. I found some of the most important and interesting information started on page 34. Most of the past cases involve a conflict between Congress and the Executive branch, for only an administration can claim executive privilege.

The Biden administration is not attempting to cover-up for the Trump cult. Donald Trump has no legal status that allows for executive privilege. Steve Bannon was not part of the administration at the time in question. Not to mention that claims of executive privilege tend to admit that the January 6 insurrection was a White House operation.

[spanone]

1. K&R

[H2O Man]

3. Thank you!

[spanone]

10. Thanks for the link!

👍🏼

[Silent3]

2. Incinerate Steve Bannon

There, I fixed that for you.

[H2O Man]

5. Much better!

Thanks for that! (The dog rushed over to check on me when she heard my outburst of delight when I read that!)

[iscooterliberally]

12. Make sure you have a hazmat team in place first.

That could easily cause a super-fund site if it goes unchecked. It might take weeks to put the fire out.

[Traildogbob]

31. Yes

That pus filled bag of slim that gathers at the bottom of a land fill will blow up like propane and whale oil.

[DBoon]

20. expose him to sunlight

that usually works with vampires

[lagomorph777]

47. Oooohhh, burn!

[caraher]

81. I misread it exactly this way at first

[malaise]

4. Great post

Get thee to the greatest page RFN!

[H2O Man]

14. Thanks!

You might like a project that I inspired on another political forum that I inhabit. Another of my sisters sent me a "letter to Santa" that I wrote when I was six years old, which was a giggle. But yet, it reminded me of the republican wart on Christmas, and the nation's need to remove those warts. So we are sending "letters to Santa" to the Department of Justice, noting that the only thing we want this year is for Bannon & Co to be prosecuted for failing to show up to testify to the Committee about his role in the January 6 insurrection.

[Saoirse9]

15. I love it

If you send me an address I will send a letter.

[Saoirse9]

6. I hope this will give people hope

It did me. I can’t see any scenario that would allow Garland to sidestep this referral.

But what about Bannon waiting out the clock? Dragging this out until the last possible moment?

[H2O Man]

16. Good question.

Bannon is hoping to run out the clock on testifying. He can't run out the clock on being prosecuted by the DOJ. He doesn't have a valid defense for fighting it in court, either.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

44. Hasn't Bannon been in Europe and Brazil the past 18 months or so...

... I am a bit worried that once the heat is on and they get close to him, he has a plan to skip the country. Brazil? Hungary?

[lagomorph777]

49. If (IF) he's under indictment, could his passport be flagged/pulled?

[onecaliberal]

7. K&R

[H2O Man]

19. Thank you!

[ripcord]

8. He will probably get away with it

The Fast and Furious case where Holder refused a Congressional subpoena wasn't settled for 7 years and Trump's cronies know how to drag things out.

[H2O Man]

23. Respectfully disagree.

There are significant differences. Holder was part of a sitting administration. Bannon was not part of the Trump administration at the time. Second, if we do consider the Holder case, we see that in 2014, U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson's ruling expanded what the DOJ needed to turn over -- all "non-privileged" documents, rather than the "predecisional and deliberative" standard. She also said the contempt charges were "entirely unnecessary."

President Biden's administration is not claiming privilege. And it won't work if Bannon et al claim that Trump actually is still president. The quality of the lawyers looking to be associated with the Trump cult in a losing case has deteriorated, so we can't rule such an attempt out completely. But the Department of Justice has a much, much better hand to play.

[sheshe2]

9. Ha! Love your lol last sentence 😊

[H2O Man]

27. Thank you!

That seems to be their only way of claiming some executive privilege, doesn't it? Must be someone like Rudy or Sidney Powell advising them. Or could it be someone of lesser ability? Is that even possible?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

11. My dear H20 Man, thank you for your clear and necessary words on this subject!

It's not an easy task to write this well on this complex topic.

I thank you!

[malaise]

24. WaterMan really has a gift

my Dear CaliforniaPeggy

[H2O Man]

34. He also has

an extraordinarily fat head. We must use care not to further inflate it!!!!!

Thank you!

[malaise]

35. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

[H2O Man]

33. Thank you!

It's possible to compare writing skills with the ability to tell a story with a photograph of the moon. Just my opinion!

[empedocles]

17. A political trial can be a very complicated trial

A major consideration in prosecutions for the Dems, is to open with a very clear win. Dems, interested in politics, may see bannon as an obvious crook, so just get on with jailing bannon.

It is important that the general, less interested, public see the prosecution as necessary, not just a mostly political move.

This was very well done with the prosecution of trumper manafort. The prosecution was narrow, cut and dried, involved flat numbers, and limited, [to the dismay of aggressive Dems at the time] - but resulted in a clear guilty verdict won by the prosecution. Pretty well accepted by the general public.

Bannon will very likely be prosecuted, but, hopefully imo, first a smaller bananna in the crooked bunch.

[H2O Man]

37. Absolutely!

You hit the nail on the head right there! The republicans will continue to make this sound "political" -- prosecuting tourists to soil Trump's sparkling reputation. So it is essential that it be presented not only as a criminal prosecution by the DOJ, but part of exposing the attempt to overthrow the rule of law with an insurrection. Thank you very much for your post!!!

[empedocles]

39. My point, is about 'when' bannon gets prosecuted.

Preceded by clear, and hard to dispute, manafort type proceedings. Guilty pleas to prison sentences, are welcomed.

[YoshidaYui]

18. WHAT ever the penalty for Insurrection

what ever the PRISON time..give it to him. The Full extend of the law. Throw his ass in prison and throw away the damn key.

[H2O Man]

38. Yes!!!

Bannon doesn't want to testify, because his crimes will be fully exposed. That would lead to his being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And that leads to a long incarceration.

[lagomorph777]

51. Yup - no deal without major prison time.

Give him a break (say, life minus one week, instead of life times two) if he provides really juicy evidence against Turd.

[BComplex]

21. If they do not incarcerate him, it tells me that they'll never hold trump accountable either.

If you're above a certain status, justice doesn't apply, it appears.

[H2O Man]

40. It frequently doesn't.

You are exactly right: too often, there are several tiers of "justice." No question about it. And I agree that if Bannon isn't held to account, that will mean Trump skates.

Your post reminded me of something from many decades ago. I worked briefly in an industry, before getting hired in human services. My father was a supervisor in the plant, though I did not work under him. After my first week, while we shared some beer, Dad asked me what I would do if it were up to me to improve production? I said fire one-third of the workers, because they spent more time avoiding work than doing any. He said the key was to identify the lazy bastard that others considered a "leader," and then the others would get to work. I think the same general thing applies with prosecuting Bannon.

[BComplex]

54. Your dad was spot on!

If they don't go after him, everyone else will be entitled to skate.

[Tommymac]

22. Bannon is continuing to instigate an Insurrection by his most recent comments.

He needs to suffer the full weight of the Law ASAP.

If he does not appear before the Committee he needs to be arrested and charged with Incitement to Insurrection under existing Law.

Thanks for posting this.



P.S. Make him take a shower and put on clean underwear too.

[H2O Man]

41. Thank you!

Exactly -- Bannon thinks that there will be an uncivil war, in which the white nationalists will obtain total control. Thus, while he looks like Otis from the Andy Griffith Show, he thinks more like Charlie Manson. He has moral rabies.

[PurgedVoter]

25. Without better explaination, I think this puts Garland in a very interesting position.

Garland is delaying response to a subpoena from a Congressional Committee investigating an insurrection. The only explanations that I can come up with for his delay on this are compromat or loyalty to a cause that does not respect our constitution or democracy.

I suspect that history will put his name beside Steve Bannon's and cast similar shade on Garland's reputation.

[H2O Man]

42. The House is voting

to send the case to the DOJ. It would be difficult for Garland to delay a response to that which the DOJ is yet to recieve.

[Bev54]

26. I really hope they lock him up until his trial, after all he has some rich friends

with yachts that can sail him away.

[H2O Man]

43. Great point!

I've been thinking about that, too.

[KS Toronado]

28. Your last sentence is very insightful and true

Why does one need executive privilege for something they had nothing to do with?

Not to mention that claims of executive privilege tend to admit that the January 6 insurrection was a
White House operation.

[H2O Man]

48. You know?

Bannon, as a private citizen, was coordinating between the White House and mercenaries -- current and former military and law enforcement attempting to overthrow our government -- and he pretends he thinks that is privileged. That would extend an executive branch privilege to a past administration -- something definitely not found in Constitutional Law. It can only backfire.

[KS Toronado]

55. We all know he's going to jail for a long tiiiimmmmeeeeeee

unless he pulls his head out of his or Qrump's @ss, and that's very doubtful.

[Moostache]

29. OK, I have to admit to a very dark thing just now...

I misread the thread title as "Incinerate Steve Bannon"...and I did not immediately recoil from the sentiment.

[H2O Man]

50. Ha!

Post #2 suggests that, too! Another case of great minds thinking alike, the two of you! (I did not recoil at the thought, either!)

[kentuck]

30. They would like to make it about "executive privilege" rather than the attack upon our Capitol...

... in order to obfuscate and confuse the common people.

They would much rather talk about the movie that was playing, rather than who burned down the theater.

[H2O Man]

52. Right!

They know they have the ability to incite the cult by presenting an "alternative reality." And that the cowardly republicans in the House and Senate will play along. This alone shows why it is essential that we maintain control of both houses of Congress in 2022.

I like your theater reference. Bannon is indeed a James Holmes-like character, who considers himself to be the Joker in "The Black Knight Rises." He wants to burn the theater.

[Pepsidog]

32. Bannon must be held accountable.

[H2O Man]

53. Definitely.

"But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!" -- Amos 5:24

[panader0]

45. Yes, yes and yes.

One of my concerns is will the full House have to vote on every one of these scumbags who will
resist a subpoena? I understand that the DoJ, and justice departments in general, have specific
protocols for moving ahead, but are all those truly needed? Justice delayed is justice denied.
And nine and a half months since 1/6 seems delayed to me. By the time all of this moves forward,
it is history already. As many DUers that have a greater knowledge of the law have said here, patience
is required. I'm running low on patience. Obviously, the repub strategy is to delay and with trump's case
going to the same Supreme Court that he poisoned, this process could take literally years. That is
unacceptable. The midterms will have come and gone by then.
The few glimmers of hope seem to not be enough to shine the necessary light.

[H2O Man]

61. I hear you!

The federal government moves slowly by design, with extremely rare exception. And it is its slowest when there is a conflict between two branches, especially when the disagreement is brought to the third branch. Since most of those conflicys are between the executive and legislative branches, and the judicial branch is generally hesitant to get involved if there is the possibility of a resolution outside of court. But that isn't the case here -- the executive and legislative branches agree on the House Committee's need for access to information to fully investigate the January 6 insurrection. Hopefully that translates into a quicker process in this instance.

In my opinion, for what it's worth, both patience and impatience are needed. Patience with the process, and impatience with those attempting to subvert the investigation. I am confident that we will see some very good results in the next few months. But that impatience is needed for proper preparation for those mid-term elections.

I also think pressure on the republican party is especially important. Trump recently threatened that republicans won't vote in 2022 and 2024 if his big lie isn't continued. Translated from the tongue of the sociopath, that threat was aimed exclusively at those republicans who do not worship him on bended knee. He will endorse cult members in primaries against the non-believers.

[lagomorph777]

46. "claims of executive privilege tend to admit that the ... insurrection was a White House operation"

Holy moly I never thought of it that way!

Thanks for that perspective!

[H2O Man]

63. Right.

It's hard to understand the privilege claim in any other context. But it is also hard to believe anyone would think that is a good defensive tactic. It's enough to make you think that they are still taking legal advice from Rudy and Sidney Powell!

[ancianita]

70. Well...

the thing I also just learned is that the slower grand jury system can direct its search to Trump after Bannon has to appear with NO lawyer and tell the truth. So there's a really non-politicizable way to have the grand jury make its own criminal referral to the DOJ to arrest Trump.

This particular route, the criminal referral, I now realize, is the better route even if it's the slower one.

[H2O Man]

77. Yes, exactly.

Add to that the fact that federal judges tend to recognize that federal grand juries can be viewed as part of the judicial branch, and thus respect their needs for access to information. We are on the right track.

[Mr.Bill]

56. If Bannon is arrested and charged with a crime

he should be held without bail because he has already shown he will not show up in court.

[H2O Man]

64. Definitely!

No question about it. I agree 100%.

[malaise]

65. He will be

Take that to the bank

[H2O Man]

68. I agree.

[malaise]

71. On this vote 9 ayes 0 nays!

Oh Yes!

[H2O Man]

78. Beautiful!

[malaise]

66. He will be

Take that to the bank

[ancianita]

57. Thanks for this. I've just learned that the civil referral gets better, faster results than

the criminal referral.

With the criminal referral, its grand jury process and trial process take much longer than a civil referral process would.

In the civil referral, the inherent contempt vote by the House has the Sergeant-at-Arms arrests Bannon, brings him before the Jan 6 committee for immediate questioning, jailing him if he refuses to answer. Answer the questions, get out of jail.


The Democratic House should vote wisely, move quickly, or the public won't trust the process.

[H2O Man]

67. Right.

The federal courts prefer that they not be put in the position of resolving these conflicts between the executive and legislative branches. The good thing here is that there is no such conflict involved ...... it's a guy who wasn't in the administration at the time in question. And now Trump filed a pathetic case against the committee. The Constitution does not grant executive powers to ex-presidents.

[Blue Owl]

58. K&R

[H2O Man]

69. Thanks!

[FakeNoose]

59. As usual, I wait to read your post and then I know what to think about something

I know that probably sounds sarcastic - but I'm being honest. I'm no legal expert, and I try keep my mouth shut until I hear from people who know more than I do.

Thank you Mr. Waterman! I've learned a lot today and this is a great post.

Respect, sir!

[H2O Man]

72. Thank you!

That is very kind of you! And it didn't sound sarcastic -- you are always a polite friend on this forum. I always appreciate your opinions on DU, and respect your thinking.

[Texaswitchy]

60. What are Democrats waiting for?.

It is now or never time.

This is reason my Grandkids are in Canada now.
Their Mom feared for their future here.

So some spine Democrats.

[H2O Man]

74. We all wish that

the process moved along quicker in these cases. But when there are cases that potentially involve all three branches of the federal government, it is not designed to move at a fast pace. I think the House Committee is doing well now -- since the process at this time involves the work of lawyers who have prepared the referral to the DOJ.

I note that in 2001, my friend Rubin Carter urged my sons and nephews to move to Canada. He offered to help set me up at the time. Rubin said that the empire was crumbling, and we needed to consider leaving. We did consider it, but decided this country was worth fighting for.

If I thought the Committe was dragging its feet, I'd be the first one to say so. I'm prone to expressing my distrust of Manchin, for example. But I'm satisfied with the pace the Committee has set. More than satisfied, really.

[malaise]

62. Benny Thompson speaking now

It's a shame that Mr Bannon has put us in this position

[H2O Man]

75. Thanks!

I'm going to watch the news when my supper is ready.

It is a shame, but it is Bannon who will pay the price.

[bucolic_frolic]

73. "executive privilege tend to admit that the January 6 insurrection was a White House operation"

Yup. There it is. Nailed it. Could be viewed as a subtle admission or confession of responsibility.

[H2O Man]

76. Seriously.

What the heck are they thinking? It's like a "when keeping it real goes wrong" skit.

[Kid Berwyn]

79. 2020 wasn't a trial run. It was a Bannon Putsch.

“All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. Just understand this. All hell is going to break loose tomorrow. It’s gonna be moving. It’s gonna be quick," said Bannon on his podcast January 5, 2021

… BONUS SITUATION…

“If Bannon knew, so did Trump," tweeted Harvard constitutional law professor emeritus Laurence Tribe.

Source: https://www.yahoo.com/now/bannon-says-viral-hell-quote-224500776.html

[H2O Man]

80. Exactly right.

Bannon was working as a go-between for some in the White House and some of the mercenaries in the white power movement. That includes communications with Trump on their plans. There is zero chance that Trump would not demand to be the head of the operation inside the White House. That isn't his style. More, his speech that day documents that he was fully aware of the plan.

[argyl]

82. Excellent observations, as always.

Bannon's an excellent start. There are dozens who need to need to be jailed for long periods. None of this slap on the wrist BS.

I'd like to see The Odious One indicted before year's end.

And one prick that really chaps my ass is Louis de Joy. He ordered millions of dollars of valuable USPS equipment destroyed to increase The Dotard's chances of winning, slim as they were. If he hadn't done that Joe could have beaten him by nine or ten million instead of the measly 7.5 million he got.

And hell, Stephen Miller should go ahead of him. Little kids are a lot more valuable than machinery.

I could go on and on but I don't have the time.

Anyway, an excellent analysis which is the norm for you.

[H2O Man]

84. Thank you!

Louis de Joy needs to be incarcerated. His destructive actions were, exactky as you note, to increase Trump's chances in the election. He sought to prevent citizens from exercising their right to vote. There need to be consequences.

I would be willing to let Stephen Miller make a choice -- either a long prison term, or serve as my son's sparring partner for a week.

[DownriverDem]

83. As long as folks know

there is a process. All I seem to see is complaints without regard to how it all works.

[H2O Man]

85. Right.

I understand why some people are impatient. But I also understand that there is a process, and the Constitution requires that process to unfold at what appears to be at a slow pace. Those who are impatient should direct their energies -- in my opinion -- in making sure the cult does not regain power in 2022. Seems the best option right now to me.