General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow the political world evolved to this point?
This is just my opinion.
In the 1980's, Ronald Reagan told us that the nine most terrifying words in the English language were "I'm from the government - I'm here to help you."
It seems to me that was the time the anti-government forces solidified in this country. It was manifested in the form of the "lower taxes" movement.
It became the mantra for the Republican Party. They were intent on dismantling the "high tax" rates of the New Deal.
Democratic politicians offered little resistance, and in some instances, assisted with the cutting of taxes on the wealthy. For a while, they pretended that 39% was the magic rate for most effectiveness.
The battle between the "haves and have nots" has been going on for most of recorded history. The wealthy and the powerful have never wanted to surrender their wealth or their power. That is a significant reason FDR was so hated by the ruling class.
When the Soviet Union collapsed, it was taken over by a few oligarchs, some of the wealthiest men in the world. Their goal was to open up the world so they could gain more wealth and more power.
In America, the tax rates grew lower and lower. Almost everything was paid for with deficit spending. At last report, more than 50 of the largest and wealthiest corporations in America paid no taxes at all.
What the Democrats failed to understand was that by surrendering the revenues for the maintenance of good government, they were also surrendering our freedom and our democracy. Reportedly, the actual tax rate has shriveled to about 11% for the top echelon of our society.
So the struggle between the rich and the poor has reached a new stage. The wealthy feel emboldened and democracy is threatened all around the world. America is ruled by money moreso than at any time in our history.
The lesson for the people is that the only way to maintain any leverage against complete control by the oligarchs is to have a fair and progressive tax system with a strong enforcement mechanism. We have lost that in America.
Just my opinion.
gab13by13
(21,337 posts)The super rich own the MSM. The super rich own politicians. We have working class people voting against their own best interests because they have been brainwashed. When we get Democrats who want to fight for the working class, because the propaganda is so intense we even have Democrats who vote against their own best interests.
Bill Clinton ran as a progressive and governed as a conservative and to some extent Barack Obama did the same although he used up his capital getting Obamacare passed.
kentuck
(111,094 posts)Or so they believe.
They may be right.
"Trickle down' will come to mean something very different from what we know now.
dlk
(11,566 posts)How can that much concentrated wealth not have a harmful effect on our democracy? And whatever influence they have, its all conducted behind closed doors.
if..fish..had..wings
(662 posts)Don't forget the tool of separating the working class:
black vs white
american vs immigrant
men vs women
union vs non-union
gab13by13
(21,337 posts)and now they have more weapons than newspapers, radio, and cable TV, they have social media where they infiltrate and keep people fighting among themselves. Who would have guessed in a million years that vaccines and masks that save lives would become a deadly political football.
Reason, common sense, and critical thinking are disappearing, especially when "they" gain control of education.
gab13by13
(21,337 posts)always had a big parade on the 4th of July, people came from surrounding towns. I remember back in the 70's, riding in the back of the same car were a Republican Rep. and a Democratic Rep. The goal that Republicans set in stone after Barack Obama became president wasn't just to obstruct everything that Democrats proposed but to demonize Democrats. Once the word Democrat becomes a vile word people don't need reasons why they oppose Democratic proposals.
Shermann
(7,413 posts)We really need a better slogan. "Pay Your Fair Share" will mostly resonate with the left. "Fair Share" is basically subjective when dealing with a progressive tax system. The right has been indoctrinated to believe they are already paying more than their fair share. Thus, they aren't going to trust a Democratic president to determine what fair means and subsequently increase taxes on the rich.
I propose a new slogan: we must "Fully Fund the Nation". This largely removes the subjective element of it. It is a more difficult mantra to brush off. We can compare taxes today as a percentage of GDP to times in the past when more infrastructure projects were being undertaken.
kentuck
(111,094 posts)"Fair share" is very subjective.
Ohioboy
(3,241 posts)"Fully fund" makes it about everyone, and doesn't accuse some of not being "fair". I like the way you think
ancianita
(36,055 posts)ancianita
(36,055 posts)the herd," but it also got tens of millions of survivors reading and thinking. The last election wasn't a record turnout for no reason.
Thanks for the post.
Upthevibe
(8,046 posts)I'd like a take-apart by the media (other than Free Speech T.V.) of so-called trickle-down economics.
THERE IS NO QUESTION that nothing trickled down! All we have to do is look at what the Millionaires and Billionaires are doing with their money (e.g. flying into space) and NOT doing for their employees!
What you're saying, Kentuck, is the absolute truth but it's not "sexy". We MUST change the messaging....
gab13by13
(21,337 posts)are using propaganda with the "cost" of Build Back Batter" but they gladly voted for 2 trillion plus dollars for tax cuts for the rich.
Propaganda has blinded working folks. The Build Back Better cost, which is paid for is over 10 years, while the tax cuts for the rich was over 2 years and is permanent, it keeps on costing money.
As I said, common sense and critical thinking have disappeared.
bucolic_frolic
(43,161 posts)if you didn't kowtow to their latest money and power grab, which became Newt's Contract on America. To me that was the real tipping point. Bill Clinton was a Democratic president in a Republican era, "allowed" to take office if he obeyed and to convince voters the system was not rigged. But is was. Obama was a great president in policy, decorum, popularity and tone. He was weak in realpolitik dealings with the GOP. It's like he was restrained in some way by Mitch. But Obama knew what was going on. He warned in 2016 we could lose our democracy. Can't ignore the zeitgeist by focusing on economics and fiscal concerns.
KS Toronado
(17,231 posts)and get our national debt under control.
gab13by13
(21,337 posts)is a tiny example of what Kentuck is talking about. The private sector is down to 6% unionized. Union workers walked off the set to protest, among other things, unsafe working conditions. Would this tragedy have been avoided with union workers on the job? The union workers were replaced with I guess scabs. The decline of unions has mirrored the decline of working class wages.
Septua
(2,255 posts)..but somebody keeps electing Republicans to run the country. And who makes up that electorate? The answer to that question is who voted for Trump in 2016? What were Trump's campaign points? "Build the wall", ban the Muslims and bring back jobs were the top three; at least, those were the three promises most of the rally-attendee-mentality types were hearing.
The pro White ethnostate bunch...the short-sighted, uninformed, selfish who can't accept the world has changed, looking for government leaders who promise they can reverse what can't be reversed.
kentuck
(111,094 posts)...willing to attain power and money by hook or crook, and you have an idea of how the power structure is set up in the world at this time.
CrispyQ
(36,464 posts)is a depressing statement on our fellow citizens. Trump's approval rating has always been & continues to hover around 40%, which brings to mind this 2018 Fintan O'Toole commentary about Trump & fascism, in the Irish Times:
Fascism does not need a majority it typically comes to power with about 40 per cent support and then uses control and intimidation to consolidate that power. So it doesnt matter if most people hate you, as long as your 40 per cent is fanatically committed.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-trial-runs-for-fascism-are-in-full-flow-1.3543375
Martin Eden
(12,864 posts)So, why haven't the Bush and Trump tax cuts on the rich been rescinded?
Answers to that question are complicated, the roots of which go much further back in our history than Ronald Reagan.
Just my opinion, but I think a big part of the problem is deep seated bigotry against immigrants who are different from the current majority. Germans, Irish, Chinese, and anyone of foreign religion or race have been discriminated against -- and the wounds of the tumultuous Civil War have never fully healed.
What does this have to do with tax rates over the last forty years?
The malefactors of great wealth have learned how to manipulate voters by triggering their deep seated bigotry and fears. The "Solid South" was a Democratic bastion until LBJ signed historic Civil Rights legislation. The flip from blue to red wasn't immediate, then Reagan with his Southern strategy and "Make America Great Again" sloganeering (yes, he used that phrase) rallied disgruntled Southerners to the Republican banner along with those gullible enough to fall for the shallow veneer of patriotism and Christian morality. The issue of abortion secured the White evangelical voting block.
All of this has become part of the "conservative" ideology which includes low taxes and antipathy towards our own government, which was the prime objective of the manipulative malefactors all along.
That's why the politics of the right is so heavily focused on culture wars -- that's what fires up their base and keeps them voting against their own best interests.
Firestorm49
(4,035 posts)Not enough police to deal with crime investigations, crime rising exponentially. Not enough money in city coffers to add resources?
Not enough teachers to educate our young demographic. No money to pay them better?
Roads, bridges, buildings in disrepair due to a lack of money.
This list could go on forever. And, it doesnt have to if the rich would simply pay their fair share, and not a penny more. Why do we have these problems? Answer -the scam called trickle down economics.
The rich need to be grateful for their wealth. The rich need to respect the low wage workers who make the very products that allow them another Gulfstream. The rich need loyalty the the country that allowed them succeed.
I have no problem with millionaires, billionaires or trillionaires. They built their success. If they cannot find it within themselves to part with their beloved money, then its time to enact strong Kennedy tax era laws to build back better again. Its that simple. You need infrastructure money? Youd have it. You want environmental form? Youd have it. You want more made in America? Youd have it if those scum sucking bastards just paid what all of the rest of us have to pay.
It can be done, but it would take balls the size of church bells (thanks, Dabney Coleman) to pry the money out of their grubby little hands.
Getting the rich to pay their fair share would solve countless problems, so why is it so hard to do?
kentuck
(111,094 posts)We have states in this country that hide the money of foreign oligarchs, in what they consider off-shore accounts. The corruption is very deep.
CrispyQ
(36,464 posts)But how do you get the people who benefit from that flood of money, to turn the spigot off?
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)while Reagan and Gingrich gave the party to the "just OK".
If I could control things, I would change the rallying cry to something on the order of "PAY YOUR FUCKING BILLS LIKE I HAVE TO!
GoodRaisin
(8,922 posts)They have the wealth, the courts, the politicians, the airwaves, and they are on their way to seizing complete control of our national elections.
Its evolved as you say. A few big events along the way, like the SCOTUS Citizens United ruling, like McConnells underhanded manipulation of the process for selecting the justices, are some of the final nails in the coffin of American democracy, with the national elections really only being the remaining nail.
Without a win on voting rights its pretty much over in my opinion. The irony is that either or both of 2 democratic shills are in position to provide the final blow. And, when/if they do, life in America is going to evolve into misery for many.
Poiuyt
(18,123 posts)around the world, but the incivility between parties was because of Newt Gingrich. At least Reagan could work with Tip O'Neil
malaise
(268,993 posts)was the first live new world order experiment. Now that they've fucked up the planet, they are trying it at home.
Response to kentuck (Original post)
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