UC Santa Barbara planned a dorm for 4,500 students with few windows and only 2 exits

[FelineOverlord]

What if there was a fire or gas leak?

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Link to tweet

[FelineOverlord]

1. UC Santa Barbara planned a dorm for 4,500 students with few windows and only 2 exits

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Backseat Driver]

7. Yikes...if you built it ("just so") they will come, and I will pay for it

So generous...

Reminds me that, when in the "old" neighborhood stomping grounds for other reasons, my dad would sometimes take us to walk around the Collinwood Memorial Garden, memorializing the dead kids in the historic fire (1908) that killed 172 elementary school children and forever changed public building safety and building codes across the nation...The school was rebuilt subsequent to the fire; but it too was also razed in 2004. The historic and plaqued memorial garden, I think, still remains.

https://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/collinwood-disaster-fire-safety

Of course, then there's this: Japanese capsule hotels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel

[PoliticAverse]

2. Munger is vice-chairman of mega-billionaire Warren Buffett's company.

‘Absolutely Stunning’

“We are deeply grateful to Charlie Munger for his vision, his leadership, and his commitment to creating a living and learning environment that will further support the academic success and personal well-being of our students,” said Chancellor Henry T. Yang. “His inspired and revolutionary design concept for our new housing project will benefit the students who live there, as well as our entire campus and the greater community. With an abundance of academic space that includes study areas, meeting rooms and lecture halls, and a wealth of social spaces that bring students together in community with one another, Munger Hall will offer an unprecedented residential experience.”

From: https://www.news.ucsb.edu/2021/020361/absolutely-stunning

[grumpyduck]

3. I don't get it. That rendering looks like the building has windows.

Besides, if planned as described, it would never get a building permit, especially in CA.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. The building has windows. The window opens on a common space that the bedrooms,

without windows, branch off of.

[madaboutharry]

4. It seems more like a prison for solitary confinement.

I anticipate students having nervous breakdowns and other serious mental problems from being cooped up and cut off from the outside world in windowless rooms.

And then there is the issue of an emergency, like a fire. Two exits in a building like that is insanity.

People need to see natural light, see nature - greenery, birds, the sun, the rain, breath fresh air - the things that connect us to the world we live in. Sensory deprivation is a form of torture.

[Submariner]

5. The Fire Department will not allow construction of this death trap

that would put his firefighters at risk trying to rescue 4500 students through 2 doors in an emergency.

This project is going no where.

[maxsolomon]

11. You can rest assured that if it is permitted, the FD approved it.

It's all about the size of the doors and access to rated stairs.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. That's What I Thought

I can't see a fire Marshall thinking limited egress and 4,500 people go well together.
At the very least, you'd think they'd demand emergency exits & fire escapes.

[genxlib]

15. Limited entrances

But there are many exits with isolated stairwells.

It is worth looking at the proposal to get a better sense of the building than what is described https://www.dfss.ucsb.edu/sites/default/files/docs/dcs/DRC%20Meeting%20Packet%2010.05.21.pdf

[ProfessorGAC]

17. See My Reply To You - Below

[genxlib]

14. There are two entrances

But lots of exits and various stairwells

[lindysalsagal]

35. Agreed. Even if built, it would fail the occupancy certification.

[Irish_Dem]

8. Most American oligarchs are more interested in vanity projects, not actually helping people.

[hunter]

9. Maybe they need psychological testing for those assigned to the windowless rooms.

Otherwise I foresee a lot of misery.

If I ended up in a windowless place like that I'd never sleep there. I'd rather live rough. I can't stay in a place that doesn't have windows I can open and climb out of. I don't care if it's the tenth floor, I want windows I can open.

My own college housing situation was never stable. At one point I was living in the garden shed of a crazy Vietnam war vet. I can say crazy because he sometimes described himself that way and I was a lot crazier than he was, which is why he took me on as some sort of project. That didn't end well. Anyone who knew me then is probably amazed I'm still alive. I really didn't get my head together until I was 25.

Another time I was renting a room in an apartment complex from a family who simply left town in the middle of the night while I was away staying up all night in the computer lab, which was my habit then if I wasn't out running. I ended up squatting in the empty apartment until the end of the school term, ready to jump out the window with all my stuff at a moment's notice.

My worst housing experience was when a young women who attended the fundamentalist Christian church of a housemate tried to kill herself in our bathtub. I was the only other person there and I still have nightmares about it. She later ended up marrying my girlfriend long before such marriages were recognized by law.

It took me nine years to graduate from college and I was "asked" to take time off twice. I often wonder how my unstable housing situations and the lack of effective mental health care services contributed to that.

[maxsolomon]

10. I object to the tripartite division.

My firm does a LOT of student housing up and down the West Coast, including in the UC System, and we're agog.

[genxlib]

18. By tripartite division

I assume you mean the single/8cluster/64cluster arrangement.

I am no architect but I am an engineer who has worked with plenty of Architects including on University projects.

I am curious as to your objections. I actually like the feeling of concentric rings where you can expand from private to intimate to social to community. I would have liked to live that way.

I know the place is really dense but I am also curious as a designer how much more space you would need to match the bed count. Knowing the efficiency of most dorms, it seems like it would take triple or more land.

All honest questions. Clearly, I am the outlier here.

[FelineOverlord]

20. I would absolutely hate it

Too big, and no window in my room?

And I’m paying thousands of dollars in room and board for that?!

I would have terrible claustrophobia. I also struggle with Seasonal Affective Disorder, and not seeing outside would drive me bonkers.

[genxlib]

31. I guess I am on a weird place on the chart

Most people are either anti-social introverts or social extraverts.

I am the strange crossover. I am a social introvert. Sometimes I need to be alone but much of the time I like being around people. Being an introvert, I am not always good at putting myself into social situations so I sometimes need a push to be around people because my default position of being alone is too easy to fall into and get isolated.

I could see where the lack of windows would bother people but I wouldn't spend excessive time in the room. I see lots of social spaces indoors and outdoors that would be better for me to hang out in.

I am the strange one on this one.

[maxsolomon]

23. No, tripartite is the "Base/Middle/Top" of traditional building form

I love good tripartite division, but there is no reason to build such a tradition-bound facade on a CA university campus in 2021.

I don't have the time or desire to figure out how much more area is required to match the bed count. Double? Probably at least.

I'm more curious to know WHY the University is allowing this design to go forward. Maybe they can't afford to look a gift horse in the mouth.

[genxlib]

12. I am going to be a dissenting voice here.

Having worked with a whole bunch of Architects, I will say politely that they are prone to drama. This guy grabbed his ball and went home but I know plenty of people like him.

I will say that as an Engineer and former college student, I would really like this building. Furthermore, as the father of a college student, I would like this building for my daughter better than anything she has access to now.

I suggest you actually look at the proposal on this document starting page 50ish https://www.dfss.ucsb.edu/sites/default/files/docs/dcs/DRC%20Meeting%20Packet%2010.05.21.pdf

First off, the building has two primary entrances but it has lots of exits. There are codes for such things and it will be fine.

I understand the lack of windows but I think that belies the way it should be used. They have single bunk rooms that should be for little more than sleeping and the most private of studying. Then I think of it as concentric circles of space and social activity; clusters of 8 around a living space and clusters of 64 sharing your own kitchen, game room and lounge. Then an expanded community to the whole building with a ton of different amenities and shared spaces of all kinds. I actually love this model as an ideal balance between privacy when you need it and community when you don't. My only complaint is that more of the common spaces need lounging furniture rather than dining type tables and chairs but that is a minor thing.

I know it is criticized as being a social experiment. Well I've got news for you; all college living is a social experiment. When my only child lived with seven people in a suite last year it was a social experiment. Being stuck in a double room where you never have the option of being alone is a social experiment. There are no ideal solutions but I like the ones that give kids the options for privacy while pushing for some degree of social interaction

Sure it would it be better if it spread out enough to allow each cluster to have windows. But clearly they are hurting for space and need the rooms. I can tell you that I would rather live in this on campus than be forced to be a commuter because there weren't enough beds available. We are dealing with that now because my daughter is being kicked off campus because they don't have any room for Juniors and Seniors. I would choose this for her in a heartbeat.

[ProfessorGAC]

16. Thanks

I feel better now that I see there are abundant emergency exits. My initial impression was the two ways in & out were all that were planned.
I'm still a bit uncomfortable with the notion of engineering behaviors. These are living quarters, not office space where efficiency & communication is mission critical. Making the rooms small to motivate gathering seems unnecessary, however benignly intended.

[genxlib]

19. I think referring to it as engineering behavior makes it sound more draconian than it really is.

I think of it as arranging spaces to maximize efficiency while encouraging students to interact with each other.

I feel like that is one of the more important things you learn at that age.

Colleges spend a lot of time and money trying to push that into dorms artificially with RAs and programs. I think this is just a physical form of that.

For colleges, it is about retention. They know that students that get properly socialized into a community are far more likely to stick around and ultimately graduate.

[ProfessorGAC]

21. I Get All That

But, we disagree on whether it's unnecessarily attempting to elicit behaviors.
And, we differ on whether living spaces need to be made more efficient. I don't see the benefit.
But, your points on all solid.

[Hortensis]

29. Thanks, genxlib. How is it that people could just forget buildng codes?

Our brains are marvellous mysteries.

But thank you especially for your thoughts about this design. They've very interesting. Way beyond the minimum needed to snag a mental foot here and there and plant it back on earth.

[maxsolomon]

25. Thank Christ we're "prone to drama".

The world is a more interesting, beautiful place because of it.

If you saw the floor plan you might change your mind. That is a view of ONE suite. There are 8 suites in a "house", and 8 "houses" on each floor. It is relentless.

If this 97 year old amateur wasn't GIVING this dorm to UCSB, it would be laughed out of the room.

[greenjar_01]

27. Architects are prone to drama

Bakers are phlegmatic in character
Professional golfers are known for their vituperativeness
Fork lift operators tend toward then melancholic
Plumbers are vengeful
County clerks have a reserve that's oft mistaken for feeble-mindedness
Etc.

[genxlib]

33. No offense meant. I love my Architect compatriots.

But I am an Engineer. We are bound by the secret Engineer handshake to rag on Architects. As I am sure is true in reverse.

I saw the floor plan

They are all in the packet in that link https://www.dfss.ucsb.edu/sites/default/files/docs/dcs/DRC%20Meeting%20Packet%2010.05.21.pdf

It is definitely relentless and high density.

But I also saw the floor plans of the roof and ground floor and there are tons of nice amenities and spaces available.

I would like to see it with every other "house" removed in lieu of a courtyard but I still don't mind the living arrangements. But I think we've established that I am strange that way.

[maxsolomon]

38. None taken.

We love our Engineers and wouldn't be successful without them.

It is often very difficult to make a objective case for the value of the subjective.

[MineralMan]

22. I don't really have enough information to make a judgment on this.

We have one paragraph tweets. We can't see the interior layout of the place at all. The description is just too thin.

I trust this will all be reviewed by many, many people before it is built.

On the other hand, I was a dormie in my freshman year in college. Three story brick dorms with two people per very small room. It had windows, though, and faced another dorm. The other dorm was a women's dorm. I met a person who became a girlfriend, because her room was directly across from mine. We kept catching each other looking across the gap at each other. That evolved into waving at each other and finally meeting one day.

There were no shenanigans involved. The blinds were closed, except when we were sitting at our tiny desks studying. That's how we met - studying.

So, I like the idea of windows, but it sounds like this building is open, except for the individual rooms. Lots of public spaces in it, set up for lounging and meeting and hanging out. It could be OK, actually, with residents using those little rooms as sleeping spaces, pretty much, with most of the time spent in the public areas. That's what I would have done when living in a dorm. We did that, anyhow, since there were big common rooms on every floor. That's where we hung out when not sleeping or studying. The actual rooms were too small for two people, so there was lots of incentive to get out of them whenever possible.

[genxlib]

34. If you want to see more

Try https://www.dfss.ucsb.edu/sites/default/files/docs/dcs/DRC%20Meeting%20Packet%2010.05.21.pdf

Pages 57 onward

I thought it looked much better than the description but I appear to be the only one who would want to live there.

[Hekate]

37. Clicking the source takes you away from twit & to the SB Independent article. The Indy is good...

They were good as a weekly before Wendy McCaw bought the daily SB News-Press and wrecked it, and since then they’ve proven their worth again and again, still as a weekly.

Anyhow, I was pleased with the source.

This sounds like a disaster in every respect, beginning with the lack of exterior ventilation to natural air and light (windows) and continuing to there being just two exterior doors for 4,500 residents. Those 2 details alone would be major red flags to me.

[greenjar_01]

24. Hot

[maxsolomon]

26. LOL.

[greenjar_01]

28. Haaaaa!

[Demovictory9]

32. little windowless prison cubes for sleeping. wording implies student would be out somewhere else

interacting most of the time

Link to tweet

[hunter]

40. Suicide cubicles.

There's no way in hell I'd ever put my children in a place like that.

How long before they have to install stainless steel toilets and mirrors?

I may be prejudiced. For a few years I maintained crappy student housing. It seems to me the quirky ad-hoc places suffered less abuse, maybe because the kids who lived there, even as renters, felt a certain sense of ownership about them.

And yeah, I've replaced too many smashed toilets, urinals, and mirrors. I've also covered blood stains on the walls with Kilz. The people I used to work for painted all the walls of their student housing the same color as Kilz spray primer. Paint touch-ups were easy.

Much like this:

[Hekate]

36. Only two doors? That thing is a goddam death trap.

[maxsolomon]

39. It has more than 2 exit doors.

I count 10 exit stairs in the floor plan. It will meet egress codes.

[Hekate]

41. Okay then