Disappointed in 'The Squad'.

[Drunken Irishman]

AOC said this vote was bullshit tonight.

Well I think her voting against her party, and her President, was bullshit.

If it weren't for 13 Republicans, these Democrats would have killed the bill:

Bush
Omar
Bowman
Tlaib
Ocasio-Cortez
Pressley

[dsp3000]

1. Did Jayapal vote for the bill? I hope she did

I found her to be very reasonable in all of her interviews

[Drunken Irishman]

2. Yes.

[Hekate]

21. I think Pramila Jayapal has a future. She has said the Progressive Caucus is 96 members...

She heads it. She held them together tonight, all but The Squad, which now appears smaller in scope and influence, doesn’t it?

[pnwmom]

57. I really like her. n/t

[nolabear]

77. We're so proud of her here in Seattle-land

She’s progressive but works like mad for progressive causes with grace and without rancor. She’s smart, patient, and manages to represent w/o grandstanding. Her money is where her mouth is. I’ve got a lot of hope for her future.

[Dorian Gray]

80. Sounds like

i need to pay more attention to Jayapal. Great that she's had such influence while working with the progressive caucus.

[dsp3000]

97. I like her progressive flavor way more than the squads.

Agreed she seems much more effective and her messaging is on point.

[JohnSJ]

23. Yes, because she thinks long term.

[PatSeg]

111. Yes, I've found her to be very reasonable lately

In order to be a good progressive, you also have to be realistic and pragmatic, otherwise you never accomplish anything except for a lot of aspirational rhetoric.

[George II]

160. Yes. The only Democrats who voted against the bill (and their constituents) are in the OP.

[brooklynite]

3. Didn't see that coming....

[Drunken Irishman]

6. Right?!?

But props to Pramila Jayapal - she stepped up.

[Hortensis]

157. Maybe let her know it's the "stepping up" part that gets her props.

I noticed that her first threat to kill the bill was signed on to by 30 members of the @100-member CBC, the second 20 (10% of the Democratic caucus), and at the end after another failed threat blocked by Pelosi she joined the others to step up, leaving the 6 who refused.

Agree that amounts to performing better at the end than the 6, but bottom line she caused real harm and obstructed passage without achieving any legislative gain. Pelosi won, but it cost us.

Cheers from those for whom obstruction alone is enough shouldn't be sufficient reward to encourage repeating it. Which is why I suggest letting her know.

The Hll yesterday afternoon: Jayapal threatens to sink latest Pelosi plan on votes

[VarryOn]

5. OK. Republicans are now only 99.99992% bad! Nt

[In It to Win It]

7. The bill passed so there's not much disappointment to go around from me

It’s on brand for them.

[Drunken Irishman]

8. I wish we could show a united front.

[Salviati]

20. Tell that to Manchin and Sinema

[sheshe2]

30. Tell it to the six that voted no.

[Orsino]

251. These are not the same thing.

Manchin and Sinema are deliberately torpedoing democracy. The Squad are pushing us toward more, and knew the bill would pass without them.

[Drunken Irishman]

31. I have made a ton of posts shitting on both of them for that reason.

[OnDoutside]

100. But then how often has Manchin voted against the Dems when it counted ? That's the difference, not

too often.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

9. They didn't sink it

I don’t much respect their votes, but they’re playing to their base without killing the bill.

[FoxNewsSucks]

10. Right. I'm ok with their no vote.

Now let's see Manchin & Sinema live up to the deal to pass the BBB.

That's the bill that will bring the most benefit to Americans.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

13. I think they will

It’s going to be ugly along the way, but it will pass. I don’t think they want to be the pariahs who killed Biden’s agenda. They’ll weaken it, but it will pass.

[FoxNewsSucks]

16. That's the problem.

It's already been weakened twice.

Why the fuck to progressives, who are on the side of everyday working Americans, have to give in AGAIN??? Fuck conservatives and their demands. We needed Biden's original 6T proposal.

[Fiendish Thingy]

24. BBB is DOA. Nt

[wellst0nev0ter]

34. There's almost no need to pass BBB

House killed the only leverage they had, which is why the Squad voted no.

All we've seen is fuckery from the bad actors in our caucus, why will the future be any different?

[nvme]

69. This vote should have happened sooner.

We need to look at the long game. This bill should have been law back in September. We would have had some legislation to show to the rest of the country that we could get shit done. But NO, Instead we got the fuckery of our extremes. They squabbled and made us look impotent. if this would have become law then, it could have been used to support those who ran on Tuesday. They could have paraded around and say " Look Democratic members can get some shit done."
Instead we have The squad and Manchin and Sinema Jacking the Presidents agenda and weakening our party.

Listen if we get shit done and pick up 2 in '22 for Senate then we can send the extremes packing, but until then we have to have to bite the bullet and get shit moving.
Biden is slipping because of the extremes are stalling the progress.

[wellst0nev0ter]

71. Exactly

And now we caved to to the extreme wing of the Democratic party and the goops. Without the BBB, the progressive base that is actually active in getting out the vote will be demoralized and will likely sit out, unless we wave around another boogieman.

[Celerity]

87. IF the BBB is completely killed off or is dramatically further slashed even more, there will be a

significant number of posters here who will have to eat crow. For all our sakes, I hope they do not have to do so.

Another misdirection I see being played now, ex post facto, is that this somehow shows the BIF should have been passed months ago. This is revisionism, as even though the BBB is still far from guaranteed, there have now been more promises made about it than there had been made up until yesterday.

[Demsrule86]

174. I disagree...had we passed it in september or October, we might have won Virginia...it was always a

a bad idea to try to hold one bill hostage to a different bill...we never had leverage. And I expect that the bill won't have every goody I want...but we can build on it. I hope it passes.

[Celerity]

196. and I disagree with you, lol, so nothing new here to see

we never had leverage

of course we did, not anywhere remotely near total, but certainly more than we have now

I expect that the bill won't have every goody I want.

of course it won't, it has already been ripped and stripped by Manchin and Sinema in the Senate

and I suspect more shredding to come, especially now as there is no real leverage left at all

and (I am not as negative as some are on this at all) there is a chance (hopefully a small one) that it (the BBB) does indeed get fully buried and killed off, in which case we are toast come 2022 midterms, especially if Manchin and/or Sinema also block the voter protection bills by refusing to allow a carve-out on the filibuster

IF the BBB is totally scuppered and doesn't pass, then 90% of Biden's initial new spend agenda proposals from the two bills is GONE, done, dusted, $5.55 trillion torn up and binned out of $6.1 trillion between the two bills, include a HUGE number of Biden's key, vital centrepiece programmes and campaign promises, That is basically unrecoverable from come November 2022.

I would NOT want to be the person or persons who would be responsible for that. They will go down in history as the most profoundly hated Dems since the old Dixiecrat segregationists. I do not think even Manchin remotely has the jacobs for that, (same for Sinema, minus the jacobs reference, lol) thus my somewhat positive hope for the BBB.

[George II]

164. 215 of 221 Democrats voted for the bill and voted for progress. Who/what is this "extreme wing"...

...of which you speak? That was a pretty broad-based vote last night. Even more than 80 members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus voted for the bill. That's not "the progressive base"?

[Hortensis]

44. Their followers always always seem to be, and I don't understand.

They never have come through on their big threats to vote against Democratic legislation, even when they can, even when they claim it's terribly important that they do, a matter of great principle, for the people.

I'm left to guess they either don't really oppose any of it or are unwilling to pay the cost of coming through for supporters they convinced their opposition was meaningful.

This is a pattern all through their short careers. So obviously, yes, most of those they put this on for are still okay with it. Fwiw, they'll change their schtick if people get tired of it.

Me, I wouldn't settle for less than the real thing. And I never have.

[mcar]

48. Their base doesn't need infrastructure?

[dsc]

115. actually no, they largely don't

since public transit gets a pittance out of this, if you are carless then you got not much. Add in that these people live in big cities which already have broadband and they are seeing appropriated money that was supposed to go to them cut, to pay for stuff for rural people.

[karynnj]

122. Removing lead pipes alone is a big, very needed deal

Not all infrastructure is roads.

[lapucelle]

261. NYC is getting $9,000,000,000+ for mass transit as well. N/T

[Demsrule86]

175. Everyone needs infrastructure and plenty of folks in New York have cars...and the pot holes are

legendary.

[lapucelle]

257. "New York To Reap Billions Of Dollars For Mass Transit In "Monumental" Infrastructure Bill"

lNew York To Reap Billions Of Dollars For Mass Transit In "Monumental" Infrastructure Bill

For the New York City region, the bill could be transformative, said Carlo Scissura, president and chief executive officer of the New York Building Congress. Among other projects, funding will go to building the extension of the Second Avenue subway line, the revitalization of the Port Authority bus terminal, upgrading the subway’s signals and improving trip times, and bridge and road upgrades for Long Island and Westchester.

https://gothamist.com/news/new-york-reap-billions-dollars-mass-transit-monumental-infrastructure-bill

[mjvpi]

59. Pelosi can count votes. She let these six vote for their constituents because she knew........

….that she had the votes to pass it. It never would have made it to the floor if she didn’t. You’re looking at a win-win. The progressives represent a large part of the Democrats and enough were allowed to make their point without killing the bill. It’s called politics and Pelosi is as good as it gets.

[Mister Ed]

88. That's my belief. n/t

[MichMan]

90. Everyone was adamant that both bills were going to be passed together

Yet, the BIF was passed first which was exactly what the speaker said many times wasn't going to happen.

[Celerity]

112. It is, at the end of the day, a $1.75 trillion roll of the dice. Plus a good chunk of our chances in

2022 and 2024. The other monster parts that can affect those chances are the voter protection bills.

Manchin alone (let alone Sinema or the 7 to 12 House centrist renegades) can bring both the BBB and voter protection (less chance the House members play with that of course, they are all on board with those bills) to their knees (and thus crush our chances).

[Deminpenn]

91. Exactly

Thank you. As Katie Porter said, the bill wouldn't have come up for a vote if Pelosi didn't have the votes locked down.

[OnDoutside]

93. While you are correct, this is a horrible reflection on those 6, and an indication that they aren't

mature enough for national politics.

[betsuni]

94. +1

[Kahuna]

142. + Another. nt

[Demsrule86]

177. +1

[George II]

163. Their base?

The Bronx (which is represented by two of them) infrastructure is falling apart - bridges, roads, subways
Michigan - ground zero for lead pipe water systems
St. Louis - another city that's falling apart
Boston - ever drive on the roads around the city?
Minneapolis - another city with major infrastructure issues

So what is their base?

All six represent districts in cities with major infrastructure issues.

Yes, "they" didn't kill the bill but they voted with 200 republicans (including the likes of Buck, Gosar, Gohmert, Greene, Gaetz, McCarthy, Jordan, etc.) and they voted against their own party's best interests.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

165. Loud angry rose Twitter is their base

But I agree with your point. They should have supported the President, but at least they didn’t sink it.

[George II]

171. Ah, I see. Yes they played their base in spades. One thing they accomplished is that they gave....

....what has been described here as the "extreme wing" of the party (i.e., the moderates) an excuse to vote against the BBB with less incrimination.

"They did it, why not us?"

[electric_blue68]

239. I'm part of their base, and sometimes you have to choose pragmatism...

maybe they'll finally repave the Washington Bridge which goes from Washington Hgts to western Bronx.
Ugh...bumps, and even jolts at times - esp on a bus with worn shocks. Decades of that!

Amongst other roads, bridges, and subways! ❤️


And scew Manchin, and Senima!

[lapucelle]

256. LaGuardia airport (one of only two airports in NYC) is located in NY-14

The 10 Worst Airports in the U.S

1. LaGuardia Airport, New York City (LGA)

PROBLEMS: Where do we start?

In a rare display of bipartisan agreement, leading figures from both the Democratic and Republican parties—former Vice President Joe Biden and President Donald Trump, respectively—have separately singled out New York’s decrepit and overcrowded LaGuardia Airport as among the world’s worst.

https://www.frommers.com/slideshows/848240-the-10-worst-airports-in-the-u-s

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New York To Reap Billions Of Dollars For Mass Transit In "Monumental" Infrastructure Bill

https://gothamist.com/news/new-york-reap-billions-dollars-mass-transit-monumental-infrastructure-bill

[George II]

259. I'll never forget her first significant vote, about a month into the session....

It was a funding bill that, if it failed, would have shut down a number of Federal facilities and departments. A couple of points:

1. She voted Nay because it contained funding for ICE, which it didn't.
2. If the funding bill failed, it would have closed LaGuardia Airport, one of the biggest employers in the district, and would have closed dozens if not hundreds of peripheral businesses (shuttles, restaurants, taxis, buses, airport food service, fueling, etc.)

Even if only for a few days, it would have been devastating to local businesses and thousands of workers. The people in north-central Queens were very concerned about the impact on their local economy and livelihoods.

These are facts, not opinion.

[betsuni]

260. +1

[Tommymac]

229. [phone] This is what Democracy Looks Like.

Thy all knew that t hey could safely vote no to play to their districts.

If needed, they would have ALL voted Yes. I have no doubt.

Welcome to Sausage Factory Land.

This happens ALL THE TIME in Democratic legislatures, past present and future. It is what Democracy Looks like.

The Squad plays the compromise game...not like Manchin & Sinema who play The Game of Obstruction.

[Scrivener7]

238. I am one of their base. They're not playing to their base.

[Dorian Gray]

243. I have to agree here

there is nobody in AOC's district who doesn't believe that we need better infrastructure. Voting No on this is stupid.

[betsuni]

244. She said: "I'm aware that I represent a lot more people than just the folks that live in my pocket

of Queens and the Bronx." Justice Democrats supporters nationally, probably.

[Dorian Gray]

245. She was voted into office

to represent the needs of her local constituents.

It's obvious she's looking toward something more than that.... but Northern Queens and the Bronx really need infrastructure repair, and I think her vote on this represented what she wants to be and not the need of the people who voted for her to serve their needs.

[betsuni]

246. Yes, I don't think fundraising should influence votes.

[Silent3]

11. If they did so as a protest, knowing the bill could pass without them...

...I don't blame them.

Given what they wanted out of BBB, and what Biden himself ran on, and what we could easily afford by raising taxes on the rich and corporations, and all the good the original BBB would have done for this country, I don't blame these Democrats one bit for expressing that a lot of us feel betrayed and that our trust has been abused.

The BBB bill as it shakily remains standing, watered down so very much from the original plan, is already a betrayal of what had been agreed on months ago. With BIF getting passed first, more betrayal is almost certainly yet to come.

I have no anger against these progressives. I do say fuck Joe Manchin and fuck Kyrsten Sinema.

[FoxNewsSucks]

17. That is exactly right.

[Bettie]

116. This

So, whenever a right-leaning Dem votes no on something, I hear from all the usuals that "Pelosi gave them permission to do that, because they need to do it for their constituents".

But when a progressive does it for the same reasons, even when the bill passes, they are true evil, worse than any Republican. WTF?

Of course, those same individuals are always 100% in support of Manchin/Sinema and the group of conservative Democrats who, unlike progressives, voted against Nancy Pelosi for speaker.

[Demguy81]

135. Agreed, truly disgusting and enraging.

The bill passed, it was never in doubt. This fuckery started today with the group of six conservative dems again trying to stall BBB.

But, even after the bill passes, we get disingenuous people on here and elsewhere gloating and saying "We're truly disappointed in the squad", while full well knowing that if the roles were reversed, they would be understanding why a particular member voted no.

It's really starting to sound like "the uppity black and POC members in the squad didn't know their place"

[Demsrule86]

178. That is very disingenuous and no one said anything close to that...

The fact is this...when the president says vote for a bill and he is in your party, then vote for the damn bill.

[Calista241]

121. Pelosi ignored the informal "Hastert Rule"

I think its only the second time in her speakership that she’s done so. Where the speaker brought a bill to the floor without it have a majority vote from her own party.

[dsc]

143. No she didn't

the Hastert rule was that any bill would have majority support of the majority party.

[Hotler]

130. I agree. nt

[Ohio Joe]

131. Agreed - nt

[George II]

176. How could they know it would pass without them? Who knew in advance that 13 republicans would.....

....vote Yea?

Congress isn't a place for "protest votes". I truly hope their constituents watched what happened.

Those six represent five of our major cities, all with crumbling infrastructure - roads, bridges, flooding subways, etc.

Protest vote or not, they did not vote with the best interests of their constituents in mind.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

12. Thank you to the 13 GOP congresscritters who voted for this bill

Link to tweet

[Hekate]

27. Thank you

[wellst0nev0ter]

36. Yes, let's hand it to the goops

Thought this was supposed to be DEMOCRATIC Underground

In b4 flood of tweetposting.

[NurseJackie]

155. Those who came-through deserve our gratitude. Those who betrayed President Biden...

... deserve nothing.

In b4 flood of tweetposting.

[wellst0nev0ter]

158. I don't give goops any credit

They wanted to limit Biden's agenda, and they won.

Meanwhile, Democrats do an end zone dance in their own end zone.

[NurseJackie]

173. Lulz. We did it! Time to CELEBRATE, baby! Woo hoo! Yeah!

They wanted to limit Biden's agenda, and they won.

Ridiculous. No they didn't. Lulz.

Meanwhile, Democrats do an end zone dance in their own end zone.

I've never seen so much pouting and sour-grapes in all my life. The only ones dancing in their own end-zone are the ones who did nothing to make this a reality. They weren't even there to carry the ball. Over the last nine months they were given many opportunities, but every time someone fumbles and dropped the ball. Voting WITH the Republicans is helping them to move the goalposts. Wanting the "impossible" is a noble goal, but abandoning what's actually possible (and shitting on one's own teammates out of spite) is deserves to be sent to the showers. We needed to put some points on the board and WE DID IT (in spite of those who did everything they could to stop it from happening.)


We did it! Time to CELEBRATE, baby! Woo hoo! Yeah!

[wellst0nev0ter]

182. Sure thing, keep celebrating till the midterms

Remember how the Rescue Plan rescued the Democrats this week? That's how it's going to be

[NurseJackie]

185. Haaa!

That's what y'all wanted... but with the teamwork of people who ACTUALLY CARE about the country rather than themselves... this was nothing-but-net... and it's going DIRECTLY to Biden's desk for his signature!!

[wellst0nev0ter]

194. The Squad wasn't going to vote for a McTurtle-backed bill

But sure, have your little victory. We earned it

[NurseJackie]

199. No... only the ones who supported it actually earned it.

We earned it

No... only the ones who supported it actually earned it. The rest are eating sour grapes along with their whine and cheese... instead of celebrating a great achievement.

THANK GOD FOR NANCY PELOSI and FOR THE REPUBLICANS WHO ALSO VOTED FOR THIS BILL!!

[wellst0nev0ter]

200. I see we ran out of files in our gif folder

Keep thanking the goops. I'm sure they won't gut the bill once they return to power.

[NurseJackie]

204. No. Why did you ask that?

I see we ran out of files in our gif folder

No. Why did you ask that?

I'm sure they won't gut the bill once they return to power.

Oh they'll certainly try. But it's harder to take something away than it is to prevent it from happening in the first place. Once these measures are in place, we can more easily add to it and tweak it.

But, there are some who want everything and want it now. Or they'd rather have nothing at all. This is the Veruca Salt political philosophy, and it's doomed to failure. But the Republicans love it when factions of the Democratic party try to hold things hostage and force bills to fail. Thank goodness reasonable minds prevailed!

GOD BLESS NANCY PELOSI and the REASONABLE REPUBLICANS WHO SUPPORTED THIS BILL!! :patriot


"I want it NOW!"

~ Veruca Salt

See, the "nothing" part is what the Republicans want too. Why? Because it's easier to leave NOTHING as NOTHING rather than trying to "gut" something that people have had a good taste of.

Meanwhile, we still have politicians who make political decisions that can be described as follows.

-- "My family is hungry."
-- "Here are some hamburgers and fish-sticks."
-- "We want steak and lobster!"
-- "Sorry, there's no steak and lobster. Would you like some hamburgers and fish-sticks?"
-- "NO! How DARE YOU?! We'd rather have NOTHING instead of that garbage!"
-- "Okay, suit yourself."
-- ...
-- ...
-- "My family is hungry."

[wellst0nev0ter]

215. Typo

:patriot --->

[NurseJackie]

217. 🤣😂🤣😂

:rolf:

[Nixie]

38. Rec this post. Thanks to Pelosi for doing the right thing.

[NurseJackie]

186. I have ZERO respect for anyone who voted against this.

There was no reason for that.

[Nixie]

233. Same here. Zero respect, and now we see how shallow the

whole exercise was. This was major legislation ready for passage MONTHS ago, and this is what we waited for?? It’s just unbelievable.

[betsuni]

242. +1

[niyad]

39. So liz voted "no"?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

42. I saw a Dave Wasserman tweet that most of the 13

Were retiring or being redistricted out.

[Cha]

52. Thanks for that.. yeah

they're repubs but they did the right thing when others couldn't be bothered.

[Frasier Balzov]

46. Liz Cheney might view Trump as a danger to democracy.

But she's not a Democrat.

[LenaBaby61]

81. THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

[OnDoutside]

95. And that's ok.

[Tomconroy]

72. Yes we do owe the brave Republicans a vote of thanks

They are going to catch a lot of flack from you know who.

I figured there had to have been some holdouts that Congress woman Jayapal couldn't control. This vote would have happened a while ago except for this group. They don't understand the first rule of politics: If you are going to pass something you have to have the votes.
Grow up!

[PatSeg]

114. Exactly

If you want to serve in congress, you need to get used to the fact that you won't always get exactly what you want and something is better than nothing. This is where experience is very beneficial.

[LonePirate]

14. I hope you reserve some outrage for the conservative Dems who will kill BBB in two weeks.

The Squad may have voted against BIF but it passed. The same cannot be said for BBB which is now as dead as the dinosaurs.

[mcar]

49. "Corporate Dems?"

"conservodems?"

Who are they?

[live love laugh]

56. I'm curious too.

[lapucelle]

103. One moderate Democrat voted against the Biden bill yesterday.

Jamaal Bowman is a Moderate Liberal

[mcar]

105. Ahh, does that make him a "conservoDem?"

[lapucelle]

107. He's to the right of JHosh Gottheimer.

Josh Gottheimer is a Moderate Liberal

[mcar]

108. Interesting.

[lapucelle]

109. But Gottheimer did not vote with Republicans against President Biden's bill

like Bowman did.

[mcar]

110. Hard to imagine why any Democrat would vote against it

despite all the doom and gloom around social media.

[NurseJackie]

225. I think it's because some people want Biden to fail. If failure can be arranged...

... then they'll be able to say "told you so" and "if you'd only done it OUR way, none of this would have happened". (It's a very cynical philosophy... one that Michael Moore is famous for.) They know that the only real "power" they have is to serve as spoilers to punish Democrats for not being sufficiently pure, or because the majority of Democrats are reasonable enough to know that NOBODY ever gets EVERYTHING they want, and that there's always going to be some compromise.

At this stage, I think it's important for the Biden administration to get some points on the board. Even with its imperfections, we can always fine-tune it and improve things later.

The same thing happened with the ACA. The far left wasn't happy, but the middle left understood that it was better than nothing. It wasn't "Medicare for All" but it was much better than what we had. (And I still hear grumblings about it... from the impatient ones... who think that even with the ACA, "nothing" would have been better than what we have.)

-- "My family is hungry."
-- "Here are some hamburgers and fish-sticks."
-- "We want steak and lobster!"
-- "Sorry, there's no steak and lobster. Would you like some hamburgers and fish-sticks?"
-- "NO! How DARE YOU?! We'd rather have NOTHING instead of that garbage!"
-- "Okay, suit yourself."
-- ...
-- ...
-- "My family is hungry."

[mcar]

226. I well remember the ACA battles

and the far-left's smug "catfood commission" and "Kill the Bill" nonsense.

It led to the infamous shellacking in that year's midterms.

[Cha]

170. Oh Wow.. who knew? Wonder how Eliot

Engle's old District feels about that? No infrastructure needed there?

TY!

[electric_blue68]

240. Is there a website for this diagram/graphic? 👆

[lapucelle]

249. On The Issues

https://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I work in education, and NYS US Government teachers frequently use this website to help high school students (who will soon be voting) become better engaged in the process and more informed about politicians who are currently serving, candidates on the ballot, and issues to consider.

Jamaal Bowman graphic:



Jamaal Bowman is a Moderate Liberal

https://www.ontheissues.org/NY/Jamaal_Bowman.htm

Jamaal Bowman details and explanation of graphic placement:
https://bit.ly/3ke24oe

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here's the congressman that Bowman replaced, so it's easy to understand some people's disappointment.



Eliot Engel is a Hard-Core Liberal

https://www.ontheissues.org/NY/Eliot_Engel.htm

Eliot Engel details and explanation of graphic placement:
https://bit.ly/3CST7I7

[electric_blue68]

252. Thank you - I'll take a look...

🤔 about 15 yrs ago a music site in it's off topic politics section with the majority of fans being liberal to progressive had an interactive 4 catagoy chart something like -
Libertarian, Authoritarian, possibly Liberal & Conservative where you could determine by a question list where you stood on the chart.
I don't think it had the option of seeing politicians were, but they may have given their own lists.

Interesting stuff. 👍

[electric_blue68]

253. Woah! That's one of the most Dense sites I've ever seen!

After looking at it I clicked on "grids" which seemed a natural place to start, but nothing showed up that looked like that.

I guess I'll have to fuss with it more, unless you have a pathway through the site to get me to where I can pull up these graphics?

Thanks again.

[electric_blue68]

255. Ah, TY, I will try again. 👍

[Drunken Irishman]

33. Well considering I've spent the last week doing just that...

...I am not a hypocrite.

But the BIF wouldn't have passed tonight had it not been for Pramila Jayapal - and if it didn't pass, nothing was going to pass.

[Celerity]

84. many here will not do it, they will (as they almsot always do) hold a meaningless protest vote that

stopped NOTHING from passing (in terms of the BIF), up and use it as cudgel to prog bash, whilst dismissing a failed (or further gutted) BBB as 'no big deal' (if that indeed is the nightmare outcome) and insist that we are cruising for a huge Blue Wave in 2022.

I know the last part to already be true as I have had that exact thing claimed to me for months now by a handful of posters here.
(and what was claimed was based on a complete fail on BBB, not simply further reductions, with a complete fail being called no big deal at all, which is just crazy)

Some even said that the BIF was the far more important bill (lol), even though the BIF has been slashed by almost 80% in terms of new spend, down to only $55 billion or so in new spend per annum (which is less that 1 PER CENT of what was spent by the federal governate in 2020), and is almost all massive long term projects that will have extremely little impact on the vast, vast majority of individuals before the 2022 midterms.

[honest.abe]

92. I think you are wrong.. BBB will pass before Thanksgiving.

It might get a bit more tweaking but it will pass.

[Mz Pip]

126. Not mutually exclusive

Plenty out outrage to go around for both.

[Decoy of Fenris]

15. If they voted "Against" the bill, they would have killed it. "NV" is not "Nay".

Knowing it would pass without them, they pulled a "Protest vote" that didn't actually go against the bill; If they wanted to, they could have Nay-voted and killed it entirely.

The only thing they voted "Against" was procedure, not the bill itself.

[MichMan]

18. How so?

The makeup of the House is 221-213

Since 6 Democratic representatives voted against it, that left 215 yes votes from the Democrats. Add in the 13 Republicans and that is how they got to 228 yes votes for the bill

[Decoy of Fenris]

22. I read the wrong roll call apparently. :/

I found out in another thread, and apparently I was reading a roll call from another vote that was around the same time, showed six NVs from the Squad, rather than Nay votes. Unfortunately I didn't know what the technical designation of the Infrastructure vote was, so couldn't look for it directly, and mistakenly assumed this vote with a -very- similar outcome was it.

My mistake, and just a reminder that I should leave most research to others.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

19. That was this afternoon

They didn’t vote in the procedural vote, they voted nay for BIF.

[Decoy of Fenris]

25. Yup, I read the wrong roll-call.

Still, I'm fine with a protest vote IF they knew it would pass. Glad it did, it's about time we started moving forward again. It's been almost a year of stagnation.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

29. It bugs me but I understand it

I can think of Manchin and Sinema votes against the caucus that didn’t affect the final count as well.
Manchin’s vote for Boof-Boy for one.

[Decoy of Fenris]

37. Exactly. That's why I can't really get worked up about their vote.

If they knew for a fact that it was going to pass, and that functionally their votes didn't matter, they can vote however they want to pass whatever message they wish.

IMO, there's no shame in sticking to your convictions/ideals so long as progress isn't hindered in the process. I think it will remain to be seen what the potential fallout re. the BBB this vote will have, but no one knows the future. At least we're getting -something-, even if it means we may lose other things.

[NurseJackie]

181. The "message" they're sending is one that SHITS on the Democratic party and Biden's agenda.

So much negativity! It only reinforces the divisions and distrust and suspicions. What useful purpose does it serve? It's just another example of how people are oddly willing to do and say things that create an atmosphere of fear and hopelessness and negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

Call it what it is. This is just another form of voter suppression.

[NurseJackie]

198. Nobody is saying that

But I see the world as a function of things that -CAN- happen, not things that -CANNOT- happen;

Then what good purpose does it serve for anyone to try and stop progress. Like it or not, this is progress. This is more than we had yesterday.

And those who say 'NO WE CAN'T" and "Just wait one more election cycle!" can fuck themselves raw.

Nobody is saying that. What we're saying is something is better than nothing. And those who intentionally shit on the party and disparage Democrats and who actively try to sabotage progress are engaging in their own form of voter suppression.

Mature and rational and reasonable people understand that politics is the art of doing what's possible. We can always fine-tune later... but having something now (no matter how imperfect) is better than the NOTHING that others seem to prefer. Fact of the matter is that there's ALWAYS going to be compromise. Nobody EVER gets everything they want. And having a temper tantrum in an effort to prevent EVERYONE from getting something more than what they had is ridiculous.

THANK GOD FOR NANCY PELOSI and FOR THE REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED FOR THIS BILL!!

-- "My family is hungry."
-- "Here are some hamburgers and fish-sticks."
-- "We want steak and lobster!"
-- "Sorry, there's no steak and lobster. Would you like some hamburgers and fish-sticks?"
-- "NO! How DARE YOU?! We'd rather have NOTHING instead of that garbage!"
-- "Okay, suit yourself."
-- ...
-- ...
-- "My family is hungry."

[Decoy of Fenris]

202. "My family is hungry"

"Okay, here are some burgers and fish sticks, but you only get 1/4th of a burger and 1/8th of a fish stick".

I'm not an "All or nothing" guy, but speaking as someone who has been homeless, I know when I'm getting fucked over. Someone says "Oh, I'll get you this!" and then the shopkeep says "No, you're only going to give them FAR LESS than what they need because reasons."

I'm fine with the BIF. And I'm fine with the BBB as it stands. But I know when I'm getting fucked over; At least have the common fucking courtesy to give me a fucking reacharound while you're fucking me over.

[NurseJackie]

205. Nice try. But still... better than nothing.

[Decoy of Fenris]

206. I won't argue that. "Something" is better than "Nothing". Barely.

Though it may seem otherwise, I promise we're not on different sides to this.

[NurseJackie]

207. Defending and making excuses for those who vote for and who prefer NOTHING...

... means that we're on "different sides". There are no two ways about it.

[Decoy of Fenris]

208. Good thing there's no one who prefers "Nothing" other than Manchinima. n/t

[NurseJackie]

211. The votes say otherwise.

[bigtree]

218. they don't matter unless they actually block the legislation

...they're as inconsequential as the progressive legislators intended.

[George II]

222. If there were no republican votes or just one republican vote it would have been blocked....

The vote was 228 Yea, 206 Nay.

With one republican vote it would have been 216 Yea, 218 Nay.

It was that close.

They not only voted against the bill, the best interests of their constituents, and the Democratic Party, but they voted against their own Congressional Progressive Caucus Chair. In fact, the Whip of the CPC voted against the wishes of her Chair and the vast majority (85 of 91 House members) of the CPC.

[NurseJackie]

223. No... they're shitting on the Democratic party and telling voters that the Democrats "failed them".

What they're doing is engaging in voter suppression. They're trying to kill-the-moment and be a wet blanket on what is a fantastic achievement! They're sowing seeds of discontent. They're pouring gasoline on the sparks of distrust and resentment. So much negativity! What useful purpose does it serve? It's just another example of how people are oddly willing to do and say things that create an atmosphere of fear and hopelessness and negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

Break out the CHAMPAGNE... not the sour grapes!

[bigtree]

228. bull

...this is sophistry. Not one bit of your screed was ever uttered by any of the progressive members who lodged a protest vote.

"insert ridiculous, childish gif here"

I suppose you believe everyone who has ever placed a protest vote which didn't tank a bill was 'shitting on the party?

Yes? No, just progressives?

[NurseJackie]

230. Their meaning is clear.

Not one bit of your screed was ever uttered by any of the progressive members who lodged a protest vote.

This type of hair-splitting indicates an argument that's already been lost. Their meaning is clear. And the results are predictable. We've seen this before. The same thing was done before/during/after the ACA.

"insert ridiculous, childish gif here"

I haven't personally insulted you. Why do you feel it's appropriate to try and insult me?

I suppose you believe everyone who has ever placed a protest vote which didn't tank a bill was 'shitting on the party?

This isn't about me. Why engage in this type of idle speculation?

*** END TRANS ***

[bigtree]

231. your gifs look intended to ridicule and mock

Last edited Sun Nov 7, 2021, 12:12 AM - Edit history (1)

...but you think you're the one being insulted?

Now I'm laughing.

[NurseJackie]

235. I'm laughing too!

...but you think you're the one being insulted?

[George II]

237. What was the point of "protest" votes? What did that accomplish, anything?

[George II]

234. How did anyone know that anyone else's votes would block the legislation? Until the vote....

...was closed anyone could have changed their votes.

[George II]

201. "Liberepublicans/Conservadems", "so-called "Democrats" "? Are you insinuating they're NOT Democrats?

[Decoy of Fenris]

203. Yes.

On Edit: Because I'm sure someone's fishing for an Alert, I want you to know this: There's such a thing as right-wing Dems. There's a time and a place for them, but this ain't it.

[George II]

216. Last night all the left, center-left, center/moderate, center-right, right, and "right-wing" Dems...

....voted for the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill.

[Skittles]

26. I wish she would learn to pick her battles

she's still young

[moondust]

32. I doubt they would have let it fail.

Enough would have probably changed their votes if necessary to save it. As it turned out there were enough yes votes to allow them to register their "neutral" opposition to some of it.

Maybe.

[Drunken Irishman]

35. I don't know. AOC sounded very angry that it was going to pass.

[Cha]

41. Too bad

[betsuni]

43. What did she say? Why angry?

Do you think they didn't want it to pass?

[Tree Lady]

60. I think she is afraid that the other bill

Won't pass now because they have nothing to hold over everyone.

[betsuni]

61. Thanks!

[Demsrule86]

183. They never had anything to hold over anyone...and both Nancy and Joe knew this in the end.

I think they made a good faith effort but when it became clear that it wasn't going to work...they pulled the plug. I hope we get a good compromise BBB bill.

[Drunken Irishman]

65. The Squad has always wanted to use the BIF as a carrot to get BBB passed.

They felt if they passed the BIF, Manchin would have no reason to support the BBB. I get their concerns but the status quo was NOT working. Neither side was budging. Because there's enough votes to pass BIF without their support, that seemed to be the reasonable next step and now they will work to get BBB going. But Manchin made it clear he was not going to support the BBB until they passed the BIF.

[betsuni]

67. Thank you very much.

[wnylib]

75. AOC is smart and talented, but I think she has

some political maturing to do in order to accomplish the things she wants to do.

[Demsrule86]

180. There is nothing wrong with being in the House...many have made a career out of it...

[Cha]

40. I expected it .. so

not "disappointed"..

Squad voted against giving help to the Capitol Police, too.. who helped save lives.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

45. There was another vote this week where they were the only Nays

Don’t remember which, but I think it was police related.

[GoCubsGo]

98. Yep. nt

[Kahuna]

161. Same. nt

[mcar]

47. Agreed

[krkaufman]

50. "If it weren't for 13 Republicans..."

… the 6 Democrats in question likely would have voted differently.

[wellst0nev0ter]

51. Twitter pundits predicted this would happen months ago

Link to tweet

Face it. Democrats allowed themselves to get played.

[Celerity]

82. I said the exact same thing on here back then too, that the Rethugs best chance to fuck us hard on

the BBB to help pass the massively gutted (almost 80% of new spend ripped out now) BIF, as

most all of the BIF is long term huge products that will have very little impact on individual people before the 2022 midterms,

the BIF's overall new spend (the new spend is a TINY $55 billion per year, less than 1% of what was spent in 2020 by the federal government) contains so so little that if it was a Rethug bill they would voted for it anyway. The Rethugs will DEFFO take credit for the BIF passing, even if they voted against it. They did the exact same thing with the Covid bills.


AND it then takes away all the leverage to get the BBB (which they DO HATE) passed, or if passed it likely will be even more gutted than it is atm. I can see it ending up closer to Manchin's TRUE wish, a $1 trillion topline, as a real possibility now (or is not that low, at least further cuts to some level).

[wellst0nev0ter]

83. Pretty much gave a gift to the goops

Some goops can claim to be bipartisan and win races while other goops can say they stopped wasteful D spending.

Meanwhile, progressives are left with nothing but demoralized spirits.

And as you know, conservadems don't care about progressives until it's time for them to vote. Then they'll whine about how progressives fucked them over with low turnout.

Can't have anything to do with torpedoeing Biden's agenda

[Celerity]

86. as someone (you maybe?) pointed out earlier, Dave Wasserman said that the vast majority of the 13

Rethugs yes votes are either retiring or are being redistricted out, so, as usual, the 13 Rethugs will pay little true cost for those yes votes (and many of the rest of the 200 Rethug fuckers will still claim credit for the parts of the BIF they like, even though they voted against it, lolol) They did that same shit with the Covid bills, they are shameless, focused, disciplined, brutal, and cutthroat power seeking fascists who toy with us so so often, even when they are in the minority.

[SCantiGOP]

53. They wouldn't have killed the bill

Every one of them would have voted for it if their vote meant the difference in whether it passed.

[Tomconroy]

74. A few would have voted against it.

[Demsrule86]

190. I hope that is true.

[Kablooie]

54. If we get something now there will opportunities for more later

If we get nothing now there will be no more opportunities ever.
The country will be handed over to the GOP, perhaps permanently.

[MN2theMax]

55. There was a deal!

The progressives only leverage to get any sort of BBB deal was to vote on both bills together so the conservadems would not be able to get their favored BIF without also passing BBB. That enough of the progressive caucus voted for the bipartisan bill to get it passed, without getting the part of the bargain they were promised. Well I just feel that they should be praised for putting dem agenda before what they believed. And now they are getting slammed here for a few token votes against this reneg on the deal they had agreed to.

I don’t fault the progressive caucus AT ALL. They put country/party above the principles they embrace. They should be praised. I sincerely worry that this rushed vote has doomed any form of the BBB bill.

[Budi]

58. K & R Thank You! Knew it would Pass somehow.

Because Pelosi lives by the rule, 'count the votes'.
Nothing is brought to the floor unless she has the votes.

Biden & Pelosi knew earlier today, when the final yes vote was secured.
Biden made the announcement & Pelosi called the House to order.

It came swift, by the book, and it wss DONE.

THAT IS HOW SPEAKER PELOSI RUNS HER HOUSE.

Congrats! 💙

Madam Speaker & her House Democrats, President Biden & their dedicated staff will all sleep peacefully tonight.

Beautifully accomplished. WOW.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

62. This amuses me

Link to tweet

[Cha]

64. YES.. THIS! LOL@ Kinzinger!

TY!

[LetMyPeopleVote]

188. Adam had fun with MTG

Link to tweet

[Cha]

195. Rt TY Yes he is! Thank

Goodness he's out there calling her on her shit.

He's got Thousands of LIKES, too!

[greenjar_01]

63. There's a big fucking surprise

[MFM008]

68. we screw ourselves

with a stick of dynamite somehow every time.

[Grokenstein]

70. Good job giving those 13 Republicans an opportunity to look good there, Squats.

Not to mention proving that Biden CAN "reach across the aisle."

Very progressive, much smart, wow.

[unblock]

73. do people here really not understand the way congressional votes work??

in this case, the whip counted the votes and informs party leadership, in this case speaker pelosi.

when pelosi knew she had the enough votes to pass, she got the word out to the democratic caucus.

when the speaker has a margin of error, i.e., more than enough votes for passage, this gives her tokens to pass out to those reluctant to vote for the bill. these may be congresspersons in red districts who need to seem conservative or these may be progressives in very blue district who want to be seen as pulling the party to the left. or it may be people planning for a senate run or something.

whatever the reason, there is often a small number of congresspersons who want to vote against a bill even if they would have supported it out of loyalty if their vote really had been needed. fortunately, sometimes it's not needed, so pelosi can hand out these a few tokens to let these people vote against the bill knowing that their vote isn't going to pass anyway.

politics being politics, the speaker will usually extract some kind of favor or exchange for these tokens.

note in particular that many of the progressives did vote in favor of the bill. pelosi didn't have enough tokens to allow them to all vote against it.


now, do i know that this happened in this particular case? no. it's true that sometimes congress persons just plain don't support a bill and they're fine killing it even if it goes against party (manchin being the obvious example). but i do know that what i described happens all the time and that a democrat killing a bill because it's not liberal enough doesn't actually happen very often.

[budkin]

76. DING DING DING

You win.

[radius777]

78. Exactly, the Squad had to vote no

in order to save face (and make a moral stand) for the Left and the progressive caucus, which mainly voted yes. Ro Khanna and the progressive caucus said they are disappointed but trust Biden and this vote is what he wanted, and that they're taking a leap a faith that the BBB will be passed.

[OnDoutside]

101. Not quite, it would usually happen to reduce your sides majority. She had no guarantee that those

Republicans wouldn't stick together at the last second.

[unblock]

159. They can halt the vote to allow time for democrats to switch their votes

There are often deals done during the vote count itself

[OnDoutside]

166. It's a very risky strategy in such partisan times, on such a crucial vote.

[unblock]

192. Note that the final tally was not razor thin

I think pelosi left herself a margin of error just in case.

But pelosi knows power and deal making and she wouldn't pass up an opportunity to use the power of a vote "spare" votes.

[OnDoutside]

221. While I agree with you about her, I doubt she had much control over what the "squad" did.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

113. This.

[Arazi]

120. Yup. Agreed

But this takes away an excuse for the daily hate-fest on progressives

[The Mouth]

129. LBJ was the all-time master of this

when he was Senate Majority Leader.

He even stated that if the votes weren't very close, then we weren't asking for as much as we could get.

[jcgoldie]

138. Of course but the outrage here is all about...

… shifting blame from the 2 senators who have been obstructing Bidens agenda from the beginning over to progressives who were allowed to vote their conscience after the bill was assured of passing.

[Dorian Gray]

79. The only one who disappoints me

is Pressley. I like her and thought she could be reasoned with. I guess I should pay more attention.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

85. Rep. Omar's Statement on the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill

Rep. Omar’s Statement on the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill
November 5, 2021
Press Release

Link: https://omar.house.gov/media/press-releases/rep-omar-s-statement-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill

Main points...

“From the beginning, I have been clear that I would not be able to support the infrastructure bill without a vote on the Build Back Better Act. Passing the infrastructure bill without passing the Build Back Better Act first risks leaving behind childcare, paid leave, health care, climate action, housing, education, and a roadmap to citizenship.
----
My community cannot wait any longer for these much-needed investments that will be delivered through the Build Back Better Act. I cannot in good conscience support the infrastructure bill without voting on the President’s transformative agenda first.”

“And for those reasons, I voted NO on the infrastructure package.”

If the BBB passes relatively unscathed, the Squad will have learned a good lesson on trusting our leadership.

KY

[JoanofArgh]

89. They'd rather have likes on Twitter and

Instagram, basically. They voted in league with the majority of Republicans.

These 2bills should never have been linked in the first place. It was an absolutely horrible strategy when the Senate is tied and we only have a piddling 5 seat advantage in the House.

Thanks to the Congressional Black Caucus for dealing with reality and demanding these bills be unlinked.

[Champp]

96. Glad for the President, sad about the Squad

I'm all for the squad, but at this time they made dumb votes.

[OnDoutside]

99. To put it in context, these six stood on the same side as MTG, Gohmert, Gosar and McCarthy. Let that

sink in. An infrastructure bill that will benefit all Americans, and they voted NO.

The vast majority of the Progressive Caucus clearly took the view that they had the assurances of President Biden, that BBB will follow. They had used the leverage of both bills going together, and I agreed with that. Clearly Jayapal believes that there is agreement on this, but these six wouldn't back her. If Manchin and the other conservadems ratfuck them in the next week or so, it will kill any co-operation over the remaining 12 months, so there comes a point where you either back your President or the question has to be asked what's the point having them there ?

Is what they did any better than what the likes of Rand Paul or Thomas Massey do within the GOP ? Fundamentalism is the danger.

[PatSeg]

124. "What's the point having them there?"

If they aren't part of passing legislation that helps the American people, then what is their purpose? For that matter, do they have any idea how congress actually works? We have such slim majorities in congress and if god forbid, republicans take back power in 2022, we won't get anything done for at least two years. We have to get what we can, while we can.

[OnDoutside]

144. I agree with you, although I would put it down to ideology, and

can you imagine if Nina Turner had won ? The irony is that Bernie Sanders voted for this bill yet it was beyond them.

[PatSeg]

145. Oh my, the thought of Turner in the House is a nightmare

I was thinking the same thing about Bernie Sanders. He is an idealist, but he is also a realist. He knows what needs to be done. Some is better than none and in this case, the "some" is a hell of lot. If Democrats would go back home and start selling this accomplishment to their constituents, we might be able to win more seats come 2022. They need to stop underselling Democratic accomplishments.

[OnDoutside]

148. 100% agree.

[Demsrule86]

187. I live in 11 Ohio...and I thank God we dodged that bullet. She is awful... and a member and

founder of the People's Party...not a Democrat. She used a People's Party heading when she Announced she was running and asked for money...she didn't get a wooden nickel from me.

[PatSeg]

197. Yes, you really did dodge a bullet with her

I can picture her now sucking all the energy out of the room on a regular basis and the MSM would love it. That woman needs to find a different career path. She is not cut out for politics and she is not good for the Democratic party.

[Demsrule86]

102. Yes....sad. I am pleased that Katie Porter

Voted for the president’s bill. We need to keep her… get her re-elected.

[NurseJackie]

104. I have ZERO respect for ANYONE who voted against this.

AOC said this vote was bullshit tonight.

She actually said "bullshit"? Seriously?

[Peacetrain]

118. This!!!

[PatSeg]

119. Jesus, does she have any idea how legislation works?

How are Democrats suppose to sell their agenda and accomplishments to the voters if fellow Democrats call historic legislation "bullshit"? We already have messaging problems. Republicans must love such comments.

[NurseJackie]

136. Shitting on the achievements and accomplishments of Democrats is...

Shitting on the achievements and accomplishments of Democrats is a form of voter suppression. The smears and attacks only serve to create an atmosphere of negativity: Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

I'm sick of that type of behavior!

[PatSeg]

141. Very well said

All Democrats need to be out their in their states and districts selling this infrastructure bill to their constituents. It really is huge and all this whining and negativity will end up costing us elections down the road. Two of the biggest problems Democrats tend to have are poor messaging and voter apathy. I agree that apathy is essentially voter suppression for Democrats.

There is too much at stake, we cannot afford this kind of petty political gamesmanship.

[Cha]

167. Good Question!

[bigtree]

134. so you don't know how bills are organized in the House?

...and are completely unaware that none of those progressives would have actually stood in the way of passage?

Hard to believe you don't know how this process works.

[NurseJackie]

151. I can't be sure of that.

none of those progressives would have actually stood in the way of passage?

I can't be sure of that. Nobody can.

Whatever the message was that they were trying to send only tarnishes themselves. That type of petty stunt diminishes whatever stature they had, or hoped to have among their colleagues and in the eyes of the public.

In the end, it serves no good purpose. It only serves to reinforce the divisions and resentment... and to increase the level of distrust and suspicion.

Hard to believe you don't know how this process works.

Hard to believe that anyone doesn't realize that those who refused to support this were taking a great big dump on the Democratic party. It was an unmistakable "fuck you" to Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the party.

It's just another example of how people are oddly willing to do and say things that create an atmosphere of negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

Anything that depresses voters' desire to participate is just another form of voter suppression. Shame on anyone who refused to support this bill!

[PatSeg]

168. Exactly, the negative publicity

of Democrats opposing a groundbreaking, historic bill could adversely affect voters in 2022. If Democrats don't believe in the bill or think we are just "settling", then why should voters think it is a big deal?

[NurseJackie]

179. This is the narrative being pushed because some folks WANT the Democrats to fail...

... it's only through failure that the most extreme can say things like "Look! If only you'd done it OUR way, then we wouldn't be in this mess!" --- Good lord, spare me!

This is the exact same thing that that shitty oaf Michael Moore does. He plays both sides, but he's always making the WORST and DIRE and NEGATIVE predictions. 1) His "predictions" are self-serving and self-fulfilling. By getting everyone to believe it, he effectively suppresses the vote and helps to bring about the failure he's predicting. 2) If the worst happens (ie Trump wins) then he steps up and loudly proclaims I TOLD YOU SO... then proceeds to lecture everyone on how we should have listened to him.

But more often than not, his predictions are wrong... and he never says anything again. His DEMONSTRABLE WRONG predictions are forgotten (kinda like that fraud Sylvia Browne) but his faithful followers always point to the occasional prediction that ended up being right and he's held up as some sort of modern day political prophet.

Michael Moore's doom and gloom is VOTER SUPPRESSION. And those who complain about his WONDERFUL ACHIEVEMENT are also guilty of VOTER SUPPRESSION!!

So let me just repeat this point: What useful purpose does it serve? It's just another example of how people are oddly willing to do and say things that create an atmosphere of fear and hopelessness and negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

[PatSeg]

193. You nailed it in regard to Michael Moore

I just can't listen to him anymore. The negativity and self-promotion is appalling. He used to make some really groundbreaking films, but this is not the same Michael Moore I remember. He should have just stuck with his excellent documentaries from the early 2000s. Now it feels like the world has moved on without him and he is no longer relevant.

More people need to learn to leave their massive egos at the door, if they truly want to make a meaningful difference in the world.

[bigtree]

213. It's hilarious how critics have fallen back on bad 'publicity' as their complaint

...all the while working to make as many people aware of the protest votes as they're able.

No one cares about protests against a bill that passed, except, maybe, people looking to slam progressives.

Here's Manchin, STILL refusing to commit to vote for Biden's BBB. He'd kill it if he could, but progressives...

[bigtree]

210. the bill passed, so all of the 'taking a dump' invective is false

...the no votes were cleared in advance, otherwise the bill wouldn't have been put up for a vote by the Speaker. Everyone knows this.

Silly to pretend otherwise. President Biden wasn't the least bit bothered by the protest votes. I'm certain he's made more than a few in his legislative career.

[MineralMan]

106. Pure Political Theater!

They knew it would pass, so they made their little political statement.

Personally, I think it is a petty little piece of political theater, but that's exactly what it was. The "squad" wanted to send a message. I guess it got sent, but to no particular benefit for progressivism at all.

It was a useless gesture that hurts them more than anyone else.

[PatSeg]

117. Yes, totally useless

It got them a few minutes of media attention, but not particularly the good kind. Governing is serious business that affects the lives of many people, often in profound ways for decades to come. It is no place for political theater, especially when so much is at stake. I think that some are so immersed in DC that they don't see how huge this bill is historically even without the BBB bill.

[Owl]

125. Agreed. Totally useless.

[MineralMan]

128. Exactly. The real problem, I think, is that

the bill and its impact on the nation is forgotten by some, in their zeal to make some sort of political point. All too often, things do not get done because some legislators are posturing rather than considering what is needed in the country.

I wish our legislators would act with the benefit of the people always as their highest priority. Sadly, that is often not the case.

[PatSeg]

132. Yes, they get so involved in their political posturing,

they no longer can see the forest for the trees. I think it must be easy to lose your perspective after awhile in the DC bubble. Plus they have so many people stroking their egos, they forget it isn't about THEM, it is about the people who elected them. One of the many pitfalls of political office.

[bigtree]

137. this is the first protest vote you've witnessed?

...there have been countless protest votes over the history of the House which don't impact final passage of legislation.

Almost always, and certainly in this case, those legislators would not stand in the way of final passage if their votes were actually needed. That all part of whipping votes, and both conservatives and progressives in our party have advantaged their individual politics this way for decades when bills are considered and passed which don't comport with some legislators' politics. Both conservatives and progressives have done this.

Again, there's no indication these progressives, who had already said they support the legislation, but opposed taking that vote last night in defense of leverage for passing BBB, would have voted the bill down, would have even been allowed to. Speaker Pelosi made the vote possible with this arrangement.

It's a cheap shot to complain about some supposed 'zeal to make a political point.' Politics isn't a zero-sum enterprise, and there's always more at stake than meets the eye.

Besides, none of this would have transpired without the continuing obstruction of Manchin who wouldn't allow the bills to be voted on together, and insists on keeping his epic political pout going even longer.

[PatSeg]

169. We have slim majorities in congress

making the "protest votes" game risky when it comes to public perception about Democrats and this administration. We still have much to do and we cannot afford to lose seats in 2022, which could mean we would also lose the White House in 2024. Democrats need to start fighting smart and remember the consequences if we don't hold onto power. The future of democracy is literally at stake.

[bigtree]

209. you should know well that no one 'risked' anything last night. Those protest votes were worked out

...in advance with the Speaker. She doesn't put bills on the floor which she knows won't pass, and this was no exception.

People making accusations against these SIX progressives like seasoned political watchers should know well these inconsequential votes are cleared in advance.

[PatSeg]

224. Oh, I know what you are saying

but unfortunately, there are a whole lot of people who do not. They see the Democratic party in disarray or settling for less, even though the bill is a major achievement. The perception with many potential voters is disunity, people often looking for a reason to give up on politics.

Yes, the bill did get passed, but not everyone understands the process and right now, Democrats need to work on their image before the mid-terms.

[bigtree]

227. I'm always non-plussed at public complaints about Democrats

...complaining about their imagery.

The 'Dems in disarray' narrative began before anyone had time to even sit down and talk to each other.

It's the end result that people measure our Democrats by, not the political noise in-between (which no actually hears except those of us weird enough to follow things closely).

[Nixie]

232. Sorry, but this has been going on since August, so that's

how long we’ve seen the threats of “inconsequential votes.” Now we know never to go down that path if we have to wait months just for this shallow exercise. Wow, a Democratic President has to hold his breath for months just to get anything done…for this?? Lesson learned not to bother.

Thanks for confirming waiting on this result wasn’t really necessary. Biden should have had this win months ago.

[George II]

236. Bottom line, they voted against the best interest of their constituents. They are....

...representatives, they represent those constituents.

The six who voted Nay last night represent people from some of the poorest and run down areas of our cities - the Bronx/Queens, Boston, Detroit, St. Louis and Minneapolis.

In 2021, with what's going on in this country, especially with the run-down state of our infrastructure, this is no time or place for "protest votes".

This is what happened in the Bronx just a few months ago, the home borough of two of the six:

This was in Minneapolis about 10 years ago:



There are other examples. Is this a time for "protest votes"?

[betsuni]

241. "I'm aware that I represent a lot more people than just the folks that live in my pocket

of Queens and the Bronx." AOC explaining her vote. Who is she representing then?

[Wounded Bear]

123. I'm not. It's politics...

Pelosi whipped enough repubs to allow the Squad to 'vote their conscience.'

I can live with it.

[Generic Brad]

127. The "C-Squad"?

I'm all for idealism. But it was go time and they didn't move forward. That's how a politician relegates themselves to the back bench.

[iemanja]

139. What does C refer to in your post?

[Decoy of Fenris]

147. "C-squad" definition:

The group of (usually young freshmen) cheerleaders who are rejected by the Varsity squad as well as J.V. More times than not are found to be flanting themselves. Although they are left in the stands at Football games , they see themselves as hot shit for wearing the outfits. Posing as those older than they are ; an insult to be referred to as one.

Flanting: Basically and obviously a mix between an ant and a fly.



An insult, nothing more.

[iemanja]

149. a sexist insult.

[Decoy of Fenris]

150. Not my place to judge that, I'm just a dude who can Google. n/t

[Generic Brad]

153. I was on the C squad in boys basketball

So clearly you have a vastly different interpretation which is not the definition I was using.

[NurseJackie]

156. You're being falsely accused of sexism in an effort to silence you...

... unfortunately, that tactic is ineffective when used in that manner. Even worse, it's like "crying wolf" and over time, it dilutes the effectiveness of being able to call-out and point-out ACTUAL sexism. I can only assume (and it seems logical) that they saw the letter "C" and incorrectly assumed it was a reference to the c-word.

[iemanja]

212. Excuse me

I was responding to the definition about the cheerleading squad. If that is not what the poster meant, that he didn't. I responded to the only definition of C squad that I was given because the poster who used the term decided not to respond directly to my question.

You don't get to decide what is sexism for me. If the comment had been about the cheerleading squad, it would have been sexist. I accept the posters point that it was not.

By the way, perhaps it doesn't matter to you, but I am the poster formerly known as BainsBane.

[NurseJackie]

214. I think you called it wrong this time, old friend.

[iemanja]

219. I responded to the point about the cheerleading defintion

had the poster been invoking that definition, it would have been sexist. I take his word that he was not.

[NurseJackie]

220. Okay.

[Decoy of Fenris]

162. Did it occur to you that you weren't "In" on the insult?

All four years of my high school were Varsity in various sports, and even as a sheltered, overly-religious, overly trusting and overly friendly child, I knew "C-squad" was an insult.

[Generic Brad]

152. Not the A or B squad

If you all thought it meant something else - that's on you.

[Decoy of Fenris]

154. "C-squad" is common slang as an insult. Has been since I was in school in the 90s. n/t

[bigtree]

133. most progressives voted for the bill

...but Manchin and other 'moderates' haven't yet committed to BBB.

But this nonsense about 'would have killed the bill' is misinformation. Profound ignorance of how the House whips vote, at best. Speaker Pelosi knew how many votes she needed, and progressives were allowed their protest vote, just like myriad others have been allowed their protest votes (which are known to be offset by other votes) for the virtual entirety of the history of the House.

No progressive held up the vote, or prevented passage. That's not the case with Manchin et al. They're still actually blocking passage of BBB.

[helpisontheway]

140. Sick of them..nt

[msfiddlestix]

146. ✔️✔️✔️

[634-5789]

172. Yes.

[BlackSkimmer]

184. Disappointed.

Not in the least surprised.

[Jose Garcia]

191. No one should be surprised

[Sgent]

247. This bill sucks

billions of dollars for new transportation infrastructure and none for reducing transportation emissions. Assuming the reconciliation bill passes, both bills together are good, but that's an assumption that can't be made currently.

For many of those under 30-40 unless they currently are not eating or are homeless (which this doesn't fix), climate change is the #1 economic issue.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

248. Reserving judgment to see if conservative Democrats will honor their pledge

to vote for the Build Back Better Act later, which has all those nice things in it that regular working folks really need and want.

If they don't, then AOC nailed it.

[Orsino]

250. As with our own votes at the ballot box...

...there are various reasons to vote for or against legislation, especially when one has calculated that it's going to pass or fail with or without one's help.

Romney's vote to impeach wasn't a sudden conversion to supporting the rule of law, and the Squad's protest votes weren't an indication that they hate America. The big money that buys lockstep on the GOP side of the aisle doesn't quite work as well over here. Democracy's messy, or an inexact science, however you want to put it.

Nuance, folks. With-us-or-against-us became a joke in the Bush era, and we shouldn't hide behind it now.