Just to update you Re: My wife and Sen. Kelly's involvement

[AZLD4Candidate]

I can sadly report that his office did the absolute bare minimum work.

They went onto the NVC website, submitted a email, waited two months for them to reply, then sent me the NVC's form letter.

It's the exact same thing that happened to me. One would think that an elected official would have more sway and pull than to use the same avenues that regular people need to use.

I will assume Sen. Kelly's office will do what Raul's office did. . .consider this matter closed and ignore my requests for help from now on. Sen. Kelly's office is as bad as Raul's, and Sen. Kelly proved to me he also doesn't care when the the US Government abuses its citizens.

With that, I thanked DFW for trying and helping, but I know now what I need to do. There is no more hope for my case. I am officially ending my campaign at this moment.

His Southern Arizona leader lied to me when he said he would do everything to reunite my family and his head of constituent services is lazy for doing the bare minimum work.

Tonight, my wife's grandmother went into the hospital for the third time in two months. The only thing that got her through her grandfather's passing was me being there with her. She spent all night sobbing that she needs me, but knows I need to support my family so I am waiting for job offers before I go back.

I have to go to work in 2.5 hours and I am in absolutely no condition to go to work today. I don't know if I can put on a big fake smile and teach today. I am so dead and lifeless right now. I literally care about nothing.

[Meowmee]

1. That is terrible

I am so sorry. I hope maybe there is still a way to turn things around for you.

[AZLD4Candidate]

2. It's over.

In the span of four months, I have lost my family emotional (my parents and brother. I will not explain that in public because, since I was running for office, conservative lurkers have sent things to my principal about posting here and how I should not be teaching children) and lost the ability to bring my wife here.

I have been sitting at my desk, staring into the darkness for an hour now. I literally feel like I have lost everything.

[Meowmee]

53. I wish I could help

I do not have the power to do that unfortunately.

We also have had and are dealing with a lot of trauma and injustice. We are doing our best to bring accountability.

[hlthe2b]

3. I'm so sorry--even more so that I have no inside knowledge nor connections for you.

Keeping my fingers crossed that somehow someone will be able to help.

I know that is cold comfort, but many are behind you here.

[AZLD4Candidate]

5. Do you know how close I am to completely melting down?

I have to teach today and I know I can't keep it inside and hide it. It's now 18 months.

[hlthe2b]

7. Please focus on hope. Focus on the many you know and will never know who somehow

have gotten through their own devastating setbacks--only to eventually have things work out for reasons they could never predict at the time.

Only by (metaphorically) putting one foot in front of the other and continuing the fight can this happen. And by surviving this struggle you become an example to inspire others.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. I am sorry for your struggle.

[Haggard Celine]

4. I'm sorry to hear.this.

You're family's been through a lot. I hope you can find some place in the world where you can provide for them and y'all can love each other and prosper. Wish that place had been Arizona, but apparently it isn't in the cards, at least not for now. Keep your chin up. Hopefully soon you'll be reunited with your wife and y'all can deal with this together. I think it will be easier when you have someone to share your problems with, and it might even help you find a solution, maybe something that hasn't occurred to you yet, but with time will become obvious. Take care, and best of luck to you and your family.

[AZLD4Candidate]

6. People coming on J1 visas that started after me are here before my wife is here

I fully understand why people hop the border, and I live 23 miles from the Mexican border.

[Haggard Celine]

8. You're wife is Chinese and living in China, right?

I don't know why she can't come over here and claim refugee status like a lot of the people who are crossing the border. China has a terrible human rights record, as everyone knows. I'm sure her human rights are violated on a regular basis. Between being a refugee and being married to a citizen, I don't know why they would deny her entry. But I don't know all the rules; I know things must be more complicated than that. Anyway, I just hope y'all find a place where you can be free and happy.

[AZLD4Candidate]

10. Because she would lose access to going back and seeing her family

They would ban her from that and, if you know the culture, her parents are beyond important to her. I told her she would never have to sacrifice her family to be with me. It would be a deal breaker on the marriage if I did, and I won't put her in that position.

As for her human rights, after being there for 13 years, hers were never violated by anyone at any time.

[BlackSkimmer]

11. Am I misreading when you say 13 years? She's been there all her life, right?

[Celerity]

36. I think they meant that they (the OP) had been in China for a total of 13 years nt

[BlackSkimmer]

42. Yes, that makes more sense. nt

[NurseJackie]

9. Chin-up! Thinks will get better. Just keep trying. You've got this! 👍

You can do it! You're stronger than you realize!

Things may look dark and hopeless now, but it won't be that way forever. 🌈

Stay strong and keep the faith. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. 🌞

Don't let them get you down. 💑

Together you'll figure out something.

Good luck to you with your future endeavors.

[BlackSkimmer]

18. I see what you did there.

[Elessar Zappa]

12. So sorry to read this.

I know nothing I say can help you or ease your grief. I wish your elected Representatives had done more to help you. Actually I do have one possible suggestion. My Senator is Martin Heinrich and he personally helped me with a Medicaid/Medicare issue. Even though you’re not a constituent of his, perhaps you could contact him? Anyway, best wishes for you and your wife in the future.

[AZLD4Candidate]

13. My uncle tried to use Warner's office to help me, but Warner directed him to Sinema or Kelly

No Rep or Senator will help an out of state or our of district American. They will direct you to your state's members.

[Devil Child]

14. Lashing out at those who displayed kindness to do work on your behalf

Is not a good look. Trashing of Sen Kelly is way off base.

Good luck on your next effort.

[AZLD4Candidate]

15. Thank you for your opinion. Walk a mile in the shoes I've walked in for 18 months

and them come back to me with your haughty and rather rude reply.

The next time I see someone trash Sinema or Manchin, or when you do it, I'll remind myself to repeat your words.

Please don't speak to me again.

[Tommymac]

21. Sorry Dude, I agree with Devil Child. Don't trash Democrats who are good people.

You have shown your true colors here in this OP. I've followed your plight - yes dealing with the bureaucracy is difficult. Sometimes takes years to cut the red tape. Been there done that.

Suck it up. I'm glad you are not running for office - you have shown here you do not have what it takes in my opinion.

Regardless, good luck. And no worries about me ever speaking to you again - I'll never see what you post. No reply needed as I will not see it.

Have a good day.

[BlackSkimmer]

23. This.

[AZLD4Candidate]

26. When it separates your family, please let me know how you react, then teach me.

Have a wonderful day

[NurseJackie]

16. You're correct.

Lashing out at those who displayed kindness to do work on your behalf
Is not a good look. Trashing of Sen Kelly is way off base.

You're correct. I'm sure it must be frustrating and a big disappointment... but it's most likely that the person tasked with this job ran into the same roadblocks that the OP did, rather than negligence or incompetence.

Additionally... if there were any follow-up efforts that could be made at a later date... it's highly unlikely that taking this aggressive and insulting approach with his staff is something that would motivate anyone to take a special interest in the situation, or to devote any additional time and effort (other than whatever the minimum perfunctory and cursory efforts are required by law.)

The "well may have been dry" today, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be productive in the future. No need to fill-it-in and abandoning it completely. This may be a source of help or a resource for advice and guidance that could be used in the future. Giving them the middle-finger in such a public way would really make it awkward (or impossible) if a follow-up request needed to be made.

Never burn bridges that may be needed in the future... that's good advice that was given to me. I recall wanting to give a previous employer the middle finger after my 2-week-notice and while I was walking out the door. I recall another time wanting to quit right there on the spot. --- But I knew that behavior like that would follow me, and I wouldn't be able to use those employers as a reference. (And as it turns out, even though I hated the job at the time... I got good referrals from them.)

In any case, I think that the comments directed at you weren't appropriate but revealing and could have been easily anticipated nevertheless.

[obamanut2012]

52. Yeah, I agree

Surprised I had to scroll down so far to see this.

[AJT]

17. I take it that moving to China is out of the question?

[AZLD4Candidate]

30. No, it's not. It's what I need to do. I have property there and a valid, easily renewed visa

to start there. All I need is to find a position there to work and I am set.

One way ticket, 14 day hotel quarantine, 14 day in house with my wife quarantine.

[AJT]

41. I'm so sorry if it comes to that.

[Hortensis]

55. :) And you have a plan. Good. The second quarantine especially

sounds like something to look forward to for both of you. Then you'll have nice life with family in China while bureaucratic problems bringing your wife back to the U.S. are worked out. Hopefully, any issues with China's recognition of your marriage, and then return to the U.S., will be easier to resolve there too.

So most of those terribly stressful uncertainties are revolving into your plan. Need that new position to settle that, and hope you quickly find one you want. And eventually back to resume your interrupted plans here.

[lark]

19. So sorry the government is so fucked, and the world is so fucked right now.

So sad you and your sweet wife have gotten caught up in this stinking mess. My heart breaks for you both.

[AZLD4Candidate]

31. This is all at the feet of Trump and his anti-Chinese, xenophobic "extreme vetting" nonsense

You know: China virus, Wuhan Flu, Kung Flu. . .and his embedded minions in law enforcement and immigration/border patrol heard the dog whistles loud and clear.

"Extreme vetting" was a license to destroy, and it has destroyed unless you are "good" white from places Trump liked.

[Wingus Dingus]

20. I take it you are going back to China then? If you do, is there a way to

do a complete do-over on the marriage and certificate in such a way that it's recognized here? It sounds like an administrative snafu caused the marriage certificate to be denied in the US. Maybe you could arrange something else that will be recognized by the US? Can the embassy there help?

[AZLD4Candidate]

32. I'm not divorcing my wife to start this over again. Going back means I never do anything like this

again.

Four days after we got married in 2014, I went to American citizen services at the Shanghai consulate to register the marriage with the Department of State. She has that stamped and notarized certificate with her.

The DHS (who runs the CBP) didn't care in February and denied her entry.

NVC was given both documents for her green card, and they said the marriage was "suspicious" and "fraudulent," even though the Dept of State in Shanghai accepted it and we sent them the documentation to prove it.

[Wingus Dingus]

39. Well, I didn't necessarily mean divorce, I meant just try to track down where it went wrong

in China and start the process over? And see if the embassy/consulate there can examine the certificate and any other documents and determine if they can be reissued, corrected, re-translated, re-stamped--maybe they can suggest something, I don't know. There has to be some basis for determining it was suspicious/fraudulent, and some way to address or appeal that. That "fraud" word, fairly or unfairly, is probably why no one is going to stick their neck out for you in the US (lawmaker-wise), and it may be due to a factor you can't correct--but there's no reason to give up if you believe there's truly an error on the bureaucracy side of it, or if more documentation or a re-do of the process can help. I can understand being bitter and having no fight left, though. Good luck whatever you decide.

[NurseJackie]

46. That's a very logical and reasonable suggestion. Others have offered similar advice.

Unfortunately, the response has been along the lines (and meaning) of "I shouldn't HAVE to do it and therefore I won't do it". That attitude might work with waiters and DMV clerks, but it's really not going to get very far with government workers... especially when it deals with immigration... and especially not with China because there are strict quotas on reunification visas. But if she had a tourist visa or a student visa and had gotten married here in the US, I believe that there was someone else who had described how that type of visa could be updated because she was already here.

But, again, he shouldn't HAVE to do that (even it it may work, he ought not HAVE to do it) or something. All I know is that a little sweet-talking and appreciation and sympathy shown to the over-worked civil servants goes a long way. Being confrontational and generally unpleasant with gov't workers will seldom (if ever) produce the desired results.

[NurseJackie]

45. If it means success, why not?

It's just a formality. It's just a stupid hoop that someone is making you jump through for no good reason. But it's your choice. you can stand firm and fall short of your goal. Or you can just do whatever it is they're asking you to do... personal pride be-damned... just so that you can stroll over the finish line.

If you're not willing to do that, then you're at a permanent dead end. The bridge is washed out and you're not moving any further forward. (There are alternate routes and shortcuts and methods available... but you have to be willing to play the bureaucratic games and do what's necessary, no matter how stupid or redundant or idiotic or offensive or time-consuming or expensive or insulting it may be.)

[shrike3]

22. I am very sorry, sir.

I wish I could do more than just tell you I'm sorry.

It'd be nice if people stopped kicking this man when he's down.

[Devil Child]

24. The OP invites it with the interwoven undeserved bashing of Sen. Kelly.

One would think that an elected official would have more sway and pull than to use the same avenues that regular people need to use.

A Democratic candidate(now former) for office is expressing surprise while directing anger towards Sen. Kelly for not bending the system to his needs no matter how understandable his situation may be. What you see as kicking can be seen as pushback against a very false narrative that has no business of setting in, Sen. Kelley did not "fail" the OP.

[NurseJackie]

25. "Sen. Kelley did not "fail" the OP." --- Absolutely right.

Sen. Kelley did not "fail" the OP.

Absolutely right. Based on what I've been reading, the OP wants to be moved to the head of the line, but the Senator's office "failed" to do that. I believe that visas under the family reunification act have a quota and thus a waiting list of about 12 years. Jumping to the head of the line is impossible and unfair to others.

A better solutions might have been to bring her here under a tourist-visa (or student-visa) and then get married in the US. Afterwards ask for a change of status to the green card. I believe that one or two other people suggested that, but the suggestions were quickly shot down with the explanation that he shouldn't HAVE to do such things. --- So, the refusal to do such things (ie: whatever the stupid bureaucracy and department of redundancy asks for) means that they'll take the long way rather than jumping through hoops, regardless of how stupid or insulting or "unnecessary" it may seem.

[shrike3]

35. And stomping on him while he has difficulties is helpful how?

And in terms of Sen. Kelly, what difference does it make? There will be no long-term impact on Sen. Kelly's career.

[NurseJackie]

38. Nobody is doing that.

But I encourage you to view the OP's public facing DU-journal and it's easy to see several other times that this topic has been brought up. The hostility displayed toward Senator Kelly's staff is almost identical to that which was hurled at people who offered suggestions, or who asked questions in order to get a better understanding of what was happening. Almost without fail the "how dare you?" accusations began to fly along with "I shouldn't have to do that" (implying, of course, that if he thinks the request or procedure (or action or paperwork, or redo, or form, or fee) is unreasonable and redundant or bureaucratic or political... then by-george, he simply wasn't going to do it.

There will be no long-term impact on Sen. Kelly's career.

Who claimed otherwise? But it's certainly wrong to shit all over someone who's trying to help because they couldn't jump him to the head of the line, when everyone else must wait their turn.

[shrike3]

40. People have been kind of stomping on him, IMO

I've followed this issue, I know what he said. Look, bureaucracy is maddening, and as I told him down thread, this is probably not the place to be venting. I'm hardly an expert but it seemed like he may have violated DU's Terms of Service.


"There will be no long-term impact on Sen. Kelly's career. Who claimed otherwise?" In that case, I'm rather puzzled. What difference does it make, if he criticized Sen. Kelly?

"But it's certainly wrong to shit all over someone who's trying to help because they couldn't jump him to the head of the line, when everyone else must wait their turn." It's also wrong to shit all over a man who's got to leave his own country just to be with his wife.

[NurseJackie]

43. Nobody is doing that. But what you are seeing is a bit of push-back.

What difference does it make, if he criticized Sen. Kelly?

I don't have time to explain it to you, but if you think about it, I'm sure the answer will come to you.

Look, bureaucracy is maddening,

That's a weak excuse for taking it out on people who reach out to help.

It's also wrong to shit all over a man who's got to leave his own country just to be with his wife.

Nobody is doing that. But what you are seeing is a bit of push-back.

What difference does it make if people criticize bad behavior. In the end, I believe that those who do so have probably done the someone a great favor. It just make change how one approaches civil servants. I think it's highly likely that gov't workers are much more likely to want to make an extra effort and go above and beyond to help someone who's appreciative and likeable... someone who understands that THEIR bureaucratic job isn't easy and that immigration isn't as "simple" as getting a driver's license at the local DMV office. If someone wants help from the person behind the counter, they typically have much better results if they don't start off with an attitude. That approach will likely make the civil servant (or immigration official) put forth only a perfunctory effort, the bare minimum, only what's legally required.

[Hekate]

56. Very well stated, Jackie. Kindly, as well. nt

[AZLD4Candidate]

27. Again, when this happens to you family, tell me how you react, then teach me your ways

Their actions were to use the NVC public inquiry email system, promise me updates every two weeks, ignore emails, and not pick up their phone when I called.

I can be a bit upset with that since it is their job to respond to constituent needs.

But, I guess, as one DUer said, don't have problems in odd years. Only in even ones when people need to vote.

But your flippancy is duly noted.

[BlackSkimmer]

28. There were many good suggestions in your last thread.

Every well-meaning DUer who made a suggestion was accused of rudeness by you.

And now, you’re doing the same to good elected Dems. I don’t get it.

[shrike3]

34. One post on one website is going to doom Democrats?

I don't get it. I doubt Sen. Kelly will even see this post. And I doubt it will have any impact whatsoever on his career.

[BlackSkimmer]

48. Where did I say anything about "dooming" Democrats?

That’s some creative reading!

[shrike3]

33. Um -- what difference does it make?

You think this is going to kill chances for Sen. Kelly's re-election, when that time does come?

One post on one website, that most of Kelly's constituents are likely never going to see. Really? You think Sen. Kelly isn't criticized regularly, for good and also for bogus reasons?

Again, what difference does it make?

[AZLD4Candidate]

29. I've noticed that's the American way

Laugh when the fail even if they try, bully people to believe your way, and kick them as hard as possible when their world collapses.

It's in our ways these days: Chexsystems denying people with "bad" credit to open bank accounts, leaving them at "fee factory" places like Netspend, Title/Payday loans for people who lie hand to mouth, denying simple basic rights to parolees or ex-felons even though they served their time, etc.

It's been part of the culture since Nixon and with every passing generation, it gets worse.

I sort of accept it. Members of my family have stopped caring and have kicked me over this, why wouldn't people behind a fake user name do it?

However, with you, Shrike3, I thank you for your emotion and I wish there were more to be done. But it's over. I need to go back to her.

[shrike3]

37. Sir, I realize you were venting; maybe others didn't get that.

That said, this kind of forum is not the place for venting, I'm afraid. Especially given DU's Terms of Service.

All you can do is remember next time, don't vent here. Especially in regards to elected Democrats.

I understand WHY you did it, and I'm not judging you.

The only advice I can give you how is, don't look back. Your life is going to be elsewhere. I'm sorry about that, but there's so little in life that we control. Live your best life, wherever it may be.

[BlackSkimmer]

44. Good post.

[MustLoveBeagles]

51. Thank you

The lack of empathy is disappointing.

[George II]

47. There is a backlog of 469,000 visa applications.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-backlog.html

[AZLD4Candidate]

49. Under US State guidelines, IR Immigrant Visas for American's spouses are pushed to the front of the

line. FB visas come second, and non-immigrant visas come third. As I said J1 non-immigrant visa applicants are done and over before IR immigrant visas even get a chance.

[NurseJackie]

50. But they don't see your marriage as being legitimate or valid.

Find out what it would take to please them, then do that.

[DFW]

54. With all the despair the "no news" has brought so far

I can understand that the ones (in AZ and China) going through this are being put through an emotional ringer. I guess I bear some of the blame, having tried to use what contacts I had (pretty much Mark and Gabby) to get something in motion.

Not ever having had to walk a mile--or even an inch--in the shoes of someone being put through this, it is not my place to offer judgment. I probably would have packed my bags and left long ago, although the prospect of earning my living by playing my guitar on Chinese streets with my hat out would have probably stopped me cold in my tracks.

The only one ray of hope I can offer at this point is to point out that Mark DID call me early on with a progress report. This now going back over a month, but he had taken the trouble to research the case, with all its ups and downs and mistakes made (inexcusable treatment of the wife in Seattle airport detention being one of them, but not the only one).

If the case had been deemed hopeless, Mark would have called me to tell me that. Of that I am certain. As one who has been called on to jump through the bureaucratic hoops to acquire EU residence with a work permit (to do my US job, no less!), and pay German taxes on top of US taxes just to get NOTHING in return, I have been in the trenches. Nothing like AZLD has gone through, but fighting a government bureaucracy in ANY country bigger than Liechtenstein is an uphill battle where the end of the fight must seem like the peak of Mt. Everest seemed to Edmund Hillary when he started out from the foothills.

But maddening and lonely as it may seem, and it definitely does, and probably will for a while to come, I will not believe that Mark's office has given up until he tells me so, and he will, if it's the case. He is not the kind who gives up easily, and he may be covering his bases for when he has to confront some bureaucrat who tells him, "well, you first should have done this and that," so that he can say, "well, as a matter of fact, we DID do all that, and it led to nothing, so now YOU do something unless you want to see your name in an angry letter on my letterhead to your superiors." I don't know how all this works in this kind of case, but I DO know in general that even when it DOES work out, if it concerns a government, it takes about twenty times as long as it should.

Remember Bill Clinton's comment when he said he found out his foundation could get the same charitable work done using 4% of the available funds for expenses, whereas when he was in office, the government agencies ate up 25% of the funds for expenses. When asked why there was such a difference, he answered, "because we were STUPID, that's why!"

When dealing with the government--especially one full of useless Trump appointees--you are going to run into a lot of indifference and a lot of stupid. I can't blame someone for losing faith or losing hope, and it sure isn't my place to tell someone in AZLD's position to keep on holding on. I have a support system in place in case something like that happens to me. He does not. We can lend a sympathetic ear, but we don't have the power to move the unmovable bureaucratic mountain.

The one thing I would hold on to is that Mark has NOT said he has exhausted his possibilities. If he calls and says that, THEN it's time to give up. The despair is big, and it is powerful, but it only wins when the last line of defense collapses. Until Mark calls and says so, it just hasn't happened--not yet, anyway. "Hurry up and wait" is about the MOST maddening piece of advice anyone can receive. It's what my wife received when she was diagnosed with "the murderer" form of cancer that practically no woman survives. We just were in physical and emotional limbo, and that was for less than a week, and we were both in the same city. The cancer specialist finally announced that he thought she might be that one patient in ten thousand that survived the "murderer," and now, five years later, she still is.

I understand the despair, but I wouldn't give in to it until Mark calls with the bad news..IF he does. If he doesn't, then he hasn't given up. That may be NO comfort. With all the cyclone of work going on in the US Senate at the moment, it should come as no surprise if Mark (and every other Democratic Senator) is concentrating on saving the country first. But that doesn't mean this case has been tossed into some waste bin.

I perfectly understand giving up at this point. But I wouldn't. I know, I know--that's easy for me to say.

But it's the ONLY thing I can say.

[Hekate]

57. DFW, you are a good egg...

Thank you, on behalf of a great many of us.

[renate]

59. Thank you so much for these details!

Last edited Tue Nov 9, 2021, 03:33 AM - Edit history (1)

As a person admittedly completely naive to the ways of Washington, I would assume that the real issue is a flaw in the filing or a mischaracterization of the original paperwork concerning the marriage. Whoever’s fault that is, it’s not Mark Kelly’s, and my other assumption is that even a senator can’t say “my constituent’s friend wrote to me and therefore I am now not only ready but actually able to command that standard immigration procedures be rendered null and void.”

If the paperwork were considered legit, as it absolutely should have been, the process should rightly be straightforward, and I am furious that some bureaucrat’s error is leading to this heartbreaking result. But even a senator can’t break the rules. Mistakes were quite clearly made but they were made quite a few steps ago, not by the OP but by some nameless and faceless person who is the real cause of all this pain.

Like you, I really hope that the source of this nightmare—the flaw in the handling of the paperwork—can be rectified and that this story is not over.

[JI7]

58. It has always been difficult to bring spouses to the US

I would say if you can get them here in 2 years that would be lucky.

Senators can't really do much unless there was something like a health condition or political threat involved.