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Mon Nov 8, 2021, 11:51 PM

The Squad defends infrastructure "no" vote, AOC fact-checks Biden claims

Axios via Yahoo

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) is trying to tweet her way out of her vote against the Democrats' $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill — even correcting President Biden's claims about its benefits.

Why it matters: AOC, the rest of The Squad and two other progressives were the only Democrats to vote against the bill. That prompted criticism from their colleagues and social media followers, since the road-and-bridge spending will so directly impact their constituents. Thirteen Republicans helped cover their lost votes.

“We did not fund the replacement of every child’s [lead water] pipe & we shouldn’t tell people we did," Ocasio-Cortez tweeted about Biden.

The other five Democrats who voted against have released their own statements and explanations on Twitter.

The placed blame on other factors — like the president, "corporate polluters," conservative Democrats, procedural issues and agreements, as well as a refusal to "choose" between supporting union workers or childcare and health care workers.

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Reply The Squad defends infrastructure "no" vote, AOC fact-checks Biden claims (Original post)
In It to Win It Nov 2021 OP
BGBD Nov 2021 #1
SCantiGOP Nov 2021 #2
Tomconroy Nov 2021 #3
Hoyt Nov 2021 #5
tritsofme Nov 2021 #12
betsuni Nov 2021 #13
Demsrule86 Nov 2021 #15
PatSeg Nov 2021 #59
Cha Nov 2021 #74
Bettie Nov 2021 #42
lame54 Nov 2021 #72
Sneederbunk Nov 2021 #4
Skittles Nov 2021 #6
Tomconroy Nov 2021 #18
jcgoldie Nov 2021 #34
Tomconroy Nov 2021 #36
PatSeg Nov 2021 #61
leftstreet Nov 2021 #7
PatSeg Nov 2021 #64
Tomconroy Nov 2021 #71
PatSeg Nov 2021 #80
CentralMass Nov 2021 #8
Demsrule86 Nov 2021 #51
Shellback Squid Nov 2021 #9
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2021 #55
PatSeg Nov 2021 #65
tirebiter Nov 2021 #10
Celerity Nov 2021 #11
LizBeth Nov 2021 #24
Celerity Nov 2021 #27
LizBeth Nov 2021 #28
Celerity Nov 2021 #31
Demsrule86 Nov 2021 #44
Celerity Nov 2021 #57
iemanja Nov 2021 #50
Celerity Nov 2021 #58
iemanja Nov 2021 #62
Nixie Nov 2021 #16
WHITT Nov 2021 #14
betsuni Nov 2021 #17
Sherman A1 Nov 2021 #19
luv2fly Nov 2021 #20
Scrivener7 Nov 2021 #21
luv2fly Nov 2021 #63
Scrivener7 Nov 2021 #79
Demsrule86 Nov 2021 #45
luv2fly Nov 2021 #66
Walleye Nov 2021 #22
LizBeth Nov 2021 #25
PatSeg Nov 2021 #67
Walleye Nov 2021 #78
Kahuna Nov 2021 #77
Johonny Nov 2021 #23
Hortensis Nov 2021 #26
ripcord Nov 2021 #29
Demsrule86 Nov 2021 #46
PatSeg Nov 2021 #68
Kahuna Nov 2021 #81
jalan48 Nov 2021 #30
mathematic Nov 2021 #35
jalan48 Nov 2021 #37
karynnj Nov 2021 #41
bikernks Nov 2021 #32
jcgoldie Nov 2021 #33
mathematic Nov 2021 #38
ProfessorGAC Nov 2021 #70
karynnj Nov 2021 #40
Demsrule86 Nov 2021 #47
jcgoldie Nov 2021 #54
karynnj Nov 2021 #39
Politicub Nov 2021 #43
jcgoldie Nov 2021 #48
Demsrule86 Nov 2021 #49
Politicub Nov 2021 #52
PatSeg Nov 2021 #69
iemanja Nov 2021 #53
Politicub Nov 2021 #56
iemanja Nov 2021 #60
Cha Nov 2021 #73
Happy Hoosier Nov 2021 #76
Happy Hoosier Nov 2021 #75

Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 11:55 PM

1. She cast the vote

 

now she has to live with it.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Mon Nov 8, 2021, 11:59 PM

2. I don't have a problem with their vote

A lot of folks here might disagree, but I feel certain each of them would have voted for the bill had their vote been the deciding vote.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:04 AM

3. The NY Times had the details in a story on exactly what

happened last Friday night. It was interesting.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:11 AM

5. +1. Think that is true in a lot of votes. You really have to be aware of situation.

 

I’m not a blind supporter of the “squad” or other groups, but don’t/hope believe they would have let BIF go down.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 03:58 AM

12. That doesn't help their case in my book. It instead demonstrates their opposition to BIF was cynical

and contrived.

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Response to tritsofme (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 04:07 AM

13. +1

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 04:19 AM

15. I have an issue with her vote...but I have a bigger issue with her putting it out there that Biden

is a liar...with the lead thing and other parts of her statement. Perhaps a primary is in order?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:31 PM

59. Yes, that jumped out at me

It is hardly healthy for an elected Democrat to accuse a Democratic president of being a liar. Disagreeing is one thing, but saying he is not truthful is another.

Add to that throwing around "Corporate Democrats" as a slur about members of the same party undermines Democrats and could cost us elections. The political inexperience and naiveté of some representatives couldn't be more obvious. You can "respectfully disagree" with a colleague, but leave the petty mudslinging to the republicans.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 02:49 PM

74. Thank You.. that's the point.. not

whether anyone has a problem with the vote.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:54 AM

42. I agree

but, there are some who spend a whole lot of time bashing her no matter what she does.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 02:20 PM

72. Way back when if you voted against the New Deal...

Today no one would give a shit "why"
Just that you voted against it
That's your legacy

They could have voted Yes and still point out the areas that need improvement

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:08 AM

4. The Squad thought they had Manchin/Sinema type leverage.

They didn't.

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Response to Sneederbunk (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:13 AM

6. they all like to call attention to themselves

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Response to Sneederbunk (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 04:51 AM

18. Yes. They don't understand that they didn't have the votes.

Something that was obvious since August.

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Response to Tomconroy (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:25 AM

34. They absolutely did understand exactly that

Which is why they were free to vote the way they chose to.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #34)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:38 AM

36. Then why did they waste everyone's time for three months if

They knew they didn't have the votes?

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Response to Tomconroy (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:32 PM

61. Good question

More air time on TV?

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:14 AM

7. The "squad" sure fizzled out

They come into office on a wave of hard work, small donations, and amazing grassroots support, worn shoe leather blah, blah, blah. But when it comes time to rally and excite those same supporters to stand up and behind them - nothing.

They tweet a lot about the unfairness of things and turn their designer gowns into memes.

whatever

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:37 PM

64. Ouch!

"Turn their designer gowns into memes." Too much social media performance art and not enough serious legislating. I couldn't quite figure out why that dress stunt bothered me, but you nailed it. What on earth did that accomplish?

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #64)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 02:19 PM

71. There is an image floating around that I can't reproduce. It's

From a party at Mar a Lago a week ago. Two women are wearing AOC dresses. One says: Be the Rich!
The other says: Marry the Rich!

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Response to Tomconroy (Reply #71)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 05:19 PM

80. Whoa!

Some people really don't get it.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:55 AM

8. Good for AOC and the Squad. I support them and what they are fighting for.

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Response to CentralMass (Reply #8)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:18 PM

51. I do not support their actions. AOC called the president a liar about the lead aspect of the bill.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:08 AM

9. ok, reality sets in, AOC needs to understand, "small steps"

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Response to Shellback Squid (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:33 PM

55. This 👆

Too many progressives either don't know how or don't want to play the long game. Republicans unfortunately do and that's why we're in a lot of the mess we're in.

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #55)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:40 PM

65. This

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 02:31 AM

10. They just legitimized voting against any or all of the Biden Agenda

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Response to tirebiter (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 03:28 AM

11. lol, no they didn't, they didn't block anything, it was symbolic protest vote, which happens all the

time.


Following your logic, every single one of the 14 Democratic Senators who voted against a waiver allowing Lloyd Austin to become Secretary of Defense also then

legitimized voting against any or all of the Biden Agenda


The waiver passed (69-27)





I never see the same claimed for Jared Golden, who has the lowest Biden score of ALL Democratic caucus members in either chamber



Among his multiple votes against Biden, Golden was one of only two Dems (the centrist conservative Ron Kind was the other) who voted against the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act (which passed 220-212)







What about Manchin?

He literally de facto blocked Neera Tanden's OMB head nomination when he publicly went on the record and said NO, he is opposing her officially


That was NOT symbolic, that directly caused Biden to withdraw her nomination after he could not find a Rethug Yes vote to count Manchin's 'No' stance.



and lastly

what about




the curtsy that helped kill off the $15/hr minimum wage





The last two, Manchin and Sinema, ARE actively against vast swathes of Biden's agenda, they have already, just on two of his major bills, ripped out $3.8 trillion (and counting, as that BBB is going to very likely getting shredded even more now that all leverage is gone) in new spend and vital, centrepiece whole Biden programmes

The same cannot be said of any of the progressives, who have been fighting for Biden's programmes for ages now, and have blocked nothing from passing at the end of the day.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 10:04 AM

24. I am so tired of these contrived symbolic votes, Sanders being a great fan of.

Then bash on Dems heads later or a lordly holier than thou fashion. His Iraq vote was merely a contrived symbolic vote being in a safe position to vote against it knowing the others had to vote it then in a manipulative way use it for 2 decades manipulatively bashing Dems. All his other votes with that war were with the group, but that one vote was a contrived symbolic vote because it was safe for him to do it. Pure theatrics and then we suffer the repercussions after.

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Response to LizBeth (Reply #24)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 10:18 AM

27. When you have a go at all the other Senators and House reps and not just your personal targets,

get back to me.

Selective outrage.

Also

His Iraq vote was merely a contrived symbolic vote


Do you have some evidence of this?

I would love to see it. (not being flippant)

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Response to Celerity (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 10:21 AM

28. Right back at you on the selective support.

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Response to LizBeth (Reply #28)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 10:57 AM

31. no, it is just that a certain group here goes after (and has since I joined in summer 2018)

the progs non stop, often falsely, and over time (and because I really love AOC except for her false labelling as a democratic socialist when she is simply a bog standard social democrat) I tired of seeing all of the disingenuous attacks on them, and decided to become a defender and a debunker (within reason), much to the chagrin of some.

I was (and still am) a huge Buttigieg supporter, I was the first poster in his primary group here on DU:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1293&page=4



Many of the red rose twitter people and other non DU trolls (fucking TYT were SHIT, they camped in South Bend for months and months and smeared him with local malcontents and nutcases and made up fake news) as well as some posters on here, (mostly long ago banned), viscously and falsely attacked him, so there is no love lost between me and them.

But AOC and Sanders never said anything over the top against him, they just disagreed on policy at multiple points, and I respected that. I always thought and said that Sanders was unelectable for POTUS, but he has many good ideas and certainly is not the great satan some paint him as.

I also do not think that AOC can win a NY Senate seat atm, nor NY Governor (likely ever, as that takes a different type of political animal than she is) and of course, she is far too young and inexperienced (even though she technically makes the age to become POTUS 99 days before the January 20th, 2025 swearing in date) to be elected POTUS any time soon. The country is still too reactionary to elect an AOC/Sanders type. It may be so for decades to come, but I love her in the House.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:08 PM

44. Manchin and Sinema have voted for all of Biden's legislation without exception and will IMHO

vote for BBB in the end. The same can not be said of all members in the squad at this point.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #44)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:56 PM

57. that is spin and false framing in regards to actual real impacts and you know it

Manchin and Sinema have massively gutted Bidens's agenda, $3.8 trillion and counting on just the BIF and the BBB, and Manchin forced Biden to withdraw Neera Tanden's OMB head nomination when he came out publicly as a No vote and Biden could not find a Rethug Yes vote to counter Manchin.

The progressives have not blocked anything or anyone from passing/being confirmed at the end of the day, and most certainly have not gutted Biden's agenda.

All you and a few others others do is to repeat the same old failed false framings and spin ad nauseum.

You really need some new material.


and will IMHO vote for BBB in the end


Manchin and Sinema had better or we are well fucked in 2022, if the BBB is a complete fail and doesn't pass at all due to one or both of them. At that point, it means they will have crushed over NINETY PER CENT of Biden's 2 bill agenda proposals. $5.55 trillion gone from Biden's initial 2 bill new spend totals of $6.1 trillion. Most all of his major centrepiece programmes from those bills gone, done, dusted.

Same for those two Senators allowing a carve out on the filibuster for the voters rights/protection bills.

If they do end up blocking it all (blocking both the BBB and all the voter bills), we are headed for a historic wipe out in 2022 and likely 2024, with a crazy RW white nationalist christofascist Congress and multiple State Houses and Senates and Governorships of the same ilk and bent firmly ensconced power. All that will be on their hands if they are indeed the ones who end up blocking it all..

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Response to Celerity (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:16 PM

50. Sinema and Manchin are trashed on this site on a daily basis

the difference is that they have few defenders, and certainly none who put their careers above policy, legislation, or the party.

I for one never even heard of Jared Golden before your post.

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Response to iemanja (Reply #50)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:11 PM

58. Nobody talked much about them until they started to be the chief obstructionist disrupters

of Biden's (and most all of the rest of the Dem Caucus) agenda. They have already had deleterious impacts, actual ones, such as a de facto blocking of a Biden nomination (Manchin with Neera Tanden for OMB head) and then, FAR more importantly, shredding off a combined $3.8 trillion (and counting) between the 2 infrastructure bills, shredding out vast parts of Biden's centrepiece programmes, and in multiple cases, the entirety of those programmes.

They have the potential to destroy our chances in 2022 (and thus likely 2024) IF they actually end up completely blocking the BBB and also refuse to allow filibuster carve-outs on the voter rights/protection bills. For all our sakes, the US and indeed the world's, let us all hope they do not go the full block route on the BBB and all the voter bills.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #58)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:35 PM

62. Of course

Obstructing the Democratic legislative agenda IS the issue.

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Response to tirebiter (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 04:22 AM

16. Exactly. And they've also put ideas into others heads that

their own “revolutions” are okay, i.e,, Sinema and Manchin. That’s probably just another way of saying what you said, but you’re exactly right.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 04:11 AM

14. YEP

“We did not fund the replacement of every child’s [lead water] pipe & we shouldn’t tell people we did," Ocasio-Cortez tweeted about Biden.

Quite true.

As I've recently posted, UNFORTUNATELY, the POTUS, several of his cabinet members, numerous Senators and members of the House, are making dangerously inaccurate statements in regards to what is, and what is not, in the bill. This, what I assume is unintended sloppiness, can come back to bite them.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 04:25 AM

17. But it's fine to promise Medicare for All, Green New Deal somehow solving climate change,

cancelling all student debt, abolishing billionaires, etc. Things that wouldn't be passed without compromises like anything else and be disappointing. Why?

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 06:09 AM

19. Cori Bush got an email from me following this no vote

As she is my Representative. I’m not at all pleased with her grandstanding and told her that her predecessor Lacy Clay who she accused of being a corporate good old boy, would have never made such a mistake.

I will never vote for a Republican, but that doesn’t mean I will vote for her in 2022 or beyond. I will certainly send my money to other Democratic candidates, but she will see not a dime.

This reminds me of my County Council District Rep who as a Democrat voted to overturn the St. Louis County mask mandate in July of this year. She will never get my vote or support in the future for such a stupid grandstanding act.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 06:57 AM

20. Progressives have done more to support Biden's agenda than those "other two"

In my opinion, posting articles like this does nothing to help anyone. Our big tent sometimes blows in the wind, threatening to collapse, and there's no need to pull at the stakes.

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Response to luv2fly (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 07:07 AM

21. How so? For the first time they were given the opportunity to vote on an actual infrastructure

bill. One that would actually get somewhere and would actually do something.

They voted no.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:36 PM

63. None of us know what was going on behind the scenes

Nor do we know how needed their votes were. That they held out and don't trust some folks in the Senate to support their/Biden's agenda, well... hard to blame them given how things often work out. Hard for me at least, and many others.

Biden's agenda, which is much of Bernie's in a more moderate sort of way, has been championed by progressives all along, even as the money was cut from 6 trillion to 3 trillion to almost half of even that. I don't see the other two doing much beyond complaining and grandstanding.

When push came to shove, the numbers needed from the progressive caucus once again supported President Biden.

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Response to luv2fly (Reply #63)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 04:42 PM

79. Except they didn't champion it when it came time to vote for it.

No. We don't know what went on behind the scenes. But we know they didn't vote for it.

The solution to not trusting people in the Senate is to vote against needed legislation?

And no, they did not support President Biden. They called his bill bullshit, they called him a liar, and they voted against it.

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Response to luv2fly (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:10 PM

45. That is not true. Both Manchin and Sinema have voted for all legisation. Now we shall see what

happens with BBB.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #45)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:40 PM

66. They piss and moan and stomp their feet

Not to mention grandstand and play victim, and heaven forbid they displease their corporate funders.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 07:25 AM

22. I am sick and tired of performative politics. That is not what they are there for

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Response to Walleye (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 10:04 AM

25. +1

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Response to Walleye (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:46 PM

67. Same here

Fewer stunts for the benefit of social media and a little more serious governing. Maybe a refresher course in Political Science to see historically how meaningful legislation was passed.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #67)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 03:59 PM

78. Good idea

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Response to Walleye (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 03:51 PM

77. Same. The grandstanding and gaslighting needs to stop. nt

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 10:03 AM

23. When it comes time to allocate this money

The squad will all be asking for it for their district. We all know that, right?

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 10:12 AM

26. I saw her cherry-picking defense, good sign that backlash is hurting.

They're not being regarded as the Heroic Squad they were trying for. Good. She's too busy trying to make the good achieved seem like nothing, and thus excuse their opposition.

You won't hear from her that the Biden plan did initially include $45 billion to finally replace lead pipes across the nation. And still does!!! Or that the $15 billion we were able to pass will replace lead pipes for a million homes, plus other billions for other tragically delayed clean water projects. The "failure."

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 10:25 AM

29. They voted no

It doesn't matter that they may have supported the bill if it were close because we will never know, the only thing we do know for sure is they voted against the President's agenda and then called him a liar.

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Response to ripcord (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:11 PM

46. That is it...

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Response to ripcord (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:51 PM

68. That sums it up well

Their political stunts benefited no one and their behavior undermined the President's agenda, as well as his credibility.

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Response to ripcord (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 06:02 PM

81. Yep. It reminds me of how the Dems undermined Carter. nt

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 10:26 AM

30. Was there anything in the bill targeting climate change?

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #30)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:37 AM

35. Yes, tons: grid improvements, ev charging stations, r&d, and more

They voted no to all that too.

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Response to mathematic (Reply #35)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:43 AM

37. Thanks!

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Response to mathematic (Reply #35)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:53 AM

41. In some ways, improving the grid might be the most impactful thing to do

Consider the argument of the right - there are times the wind does not blow or the sun does not shine. With a well designed grid, electricity can be sent from one place to another - even if far away. It is hard to make the case that there is a time when neither the wind blows or sun does not shine everywhere. I know that better batteries has been a solution to the timing problem, but a better grid is a more elegant workable solution.

A better national grid has been a very prominent demand for decades including by John Kerry, Gina McCarthy and AL Gore - to name three. Texas showed what happened with their stand alone privately owned grid.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:15 AM

32. The Right is Going to Run Wild With This

 

She literally voted no on a bill that taxed the rich. Good God.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:20 AM

33. they voted their conscience after the bill was assured of passing.

The intentional conflation of that very normal legislative process with the obstruction engaged in by Manchin and Sinema in the Senate is pure gaslighting and a large group of DUers are engaged in it.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #33)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:44 AM

38. Their "conscience" sucks.

Like many people, I'm totally over "at least they stick to their guns" as the paramount moral virtue of government.

You vote against the most important infrastructure investment bill in decades? Your principles suck. I don't care that you stuck to them. You need to change them.

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Response to mathematic (Reply #38)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 02:06 PM

70. My Sentiments, Exactly

If their principles require perfection, they are inappropriate principles.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #33)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:48 AM

40. Given one spokesperson saaid they would have voted for it had the order of the 2 votes changed

their votes were essentially votes of no confidence for the HOUSE Democratic moderates who signed that if the CBO score was good they would vote for BIF. No good and it further hurt Biden getting credit for what should have been a major win.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #33)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:13 PM

47. I absolutely disagree. I very angry about this.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #47)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:29 PM

54. ok

Some folks value conformity more than others.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 11:44 AM

39. Very weak argument - let's say for argument that it "only" replaced 50% of the lead pipes

Assuming that they were not chosen to exclude all areas where POC predominate - and argument that is both unlikely and not made - that bill is VERY important for everyone getting water over those pipes. It makes more sense to look at each bill to determine whether it - as written - makes things better.

Replacing lots of lead pipes is an issue that is asinine to complain about. The demand should be that other bills are needed to replace the rest of them. The BIF is the type of bill the Democrats have backed at least since 2000.

The DUMBEST comment I heard was that had the ORDER of the votes changed, they would have voted for it. This is a slap in the face to the moderates who pledged - that if costs were as expected - they would vote for BBB. This attacked their integrity and honesty while gaining them NOTHING. Yet, on all bills these are the people they will be negotiating with! To attack your own party's President, who very very clearly wants both bills is crazy.

At various times, I was impressed by AOC. She is charismatic and articulate, but here I question her diplomatic skills - skills needed to be an effective legislator.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:01 PM

43. It's threads like this that make me feel unwelcome at DU.

It’s not that partisans disagree with AOC and the squad; that’s politics. It’s the dripping disdain for progressives generally that happens in the pile-on.

I am proudly progressive and liberal. I’m grateful that there is an infrastructure bill, too. But that doesn’t mean that I’m not disappointed about how the social spending bill is getting discounted.

Many progressives, me among them, see the decoupling of the two bills as dooming the social spending bill. I hope I am proven wrong. I really do.

So while there is good reason for a victory lap for infrastructure, there is also real frustration about the social agenda.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #43)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:13 PM

48. well said

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Response to Politicub (Reply #43)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:15 PM

49. I am a progressive and believe much as you and AOC do. However, do not go against the

president and your party in a 50 50 senate or anytime really. You get the best deal possible and then vote for it. I am very displeased and it has nothing to do with their political beliefs which I share.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #49)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:28 PM

52. Timing and medium is everything. AOC should not have used Twitter

to fact check the president.

While what she wrote wasn’t incorrect, it could have been said later in a way that wasn’t inflammatory.

That still doesn’t justify throwing all progressives under the bus.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #49)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 02:01 PM

69. Yes, that is how legislation is done in the real world

And you don't undermine your party and your President in the process. More experienced legislators know how bills get passed, which is why new members of congress often keep a low profile until they learn the mechanics of the job. That tends to be true with most jobs. My way or the highway rarely ever works, but meaningful compromise can accomplish an awful lot.

Meanwhile with a 50-50 senate and a slim majority in the house, this is no time to play games for effect. We may lose one or both houses in 2022, so we have to get as much done as we can right now. Also the more we CAN accomplish, the better our odds that we will win in 2022.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #43)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:29 PM

53. the majority of progressives voted for the bill

So why would you identify yourself entirely in relation to the few that didn't?

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Response to iemanja (Reply #53)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 12:33 PM

56. Identify myself. Hogwash.

Don’t put words in my mouth. Just don’t.

I didn’t say that at all.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #56)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 01:31 PM

60. Yet you appear to interpret

criticism of the squad as an attack on all progressives. Why is that?
Why do you assume that no one criticizing the squad might themselves be progressive? It's as though those six lawmakers are the bar for what is considered progressive. I don't understand that.

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Response to iemanja (Reply #60)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 02:44 PM

73. Thanks for pointing that out.. Most of the

progressives did the progressive action of actually voting For the bill.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #43)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 03:01 PM

76. And many of "us" saw the continuing damage....

Of a "Democratic" Congress unable to get it's shit together and PASS something.

It's fed a perception of fecklessness and meandering leadership.

I probably agree with "The Squad" on most individual issues. But their political sense absolutely SUCKS. The inability to bring the progressive and centrist wings of party together to pass SOMETHING has been killing us. And any Democrats unable to adjust tactics in the face of that are damaging the prospects of being able to accomplish ANYTHING of value, even if imperfect.

In my view, the option wasn't between compromise and getting all the goodies. It was between compromise and getting jack shit.

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Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Tue Nov 9, 2021, 02:54 PM

75. I find them to be so frustrating...

They can't tell the difference between the ideal and the possible, IMO.

And they seem to be completely ignoring the actual political environment.

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