Rittenhouse is a bad liar.

[madaboutharry]

He has a tell. He scrunches up his face and his voice gets squeaky. You see and hear this every time he claims he can't remember something.

The photographic evidence undermines his bullshit story of self-defense.

[Walleye]

1. Not a very good actor either

[AZSkiffyGeek]

2. He looks like he wants to ask his mommy for help

Kid's a fucking coward.

[H2O Man]

5. Interesting.

I was thinking the same thing watching him. I hope that the jurors thought the same.

He is a good example of a deeply disturbed individuak, with an external locus of control. He believed a gun, first aid kits, etc would provide him with power. A case of Dumbo's feather.

[WestIndianArchie]

6. Don't forget

Killer.

[BlackSkimmer]

15. Absolutely a coward.

No way would he have gone into the protest zone clutching his little medic bag without his big gun.

He felt like a MAN. Had someone taken that from him, he’d have run like a scared squirrel.

[H2O Man]

3. Recommended.

He is not a good liar, which is interesting as he has been living a lie.

[OLDMDDEM]

4. I agree

I told my wife he was lying thru his teeth.

[calguy]

7. That's what I saw too

Although I didn't see that much of it.
Here's hoping the jury sees it the same way.

[BlueTsunami2018]

8. I don't know that it matters.

I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t walk Scott free. Everything appears stacked in his favor.

[malaise]

9. Just saw the tears - his tears were as genuine as Alito's wife

Last edited Wed Nov 10, 2021, 08:26 PM - Edit history (1)

during his confirmation hearing and that says something

[Celerity]

21. Crybaby Bomgardner

[malaise]

22. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah hahahahhaha

I'll never forget that day (even if I forgot her name for a moment)

[madaboutharry]

27. Didn't she dramatically leave the hearing room?

Maybe I am misremembering, but I think that’s what happened.

[Celerity]

30. yes, you are correct

Martha-Ann Bomgardner Leaves In Tears

During Graham's speech, Alito's wife, Martha-Ann Bomgardner left her husband's confirmation hearings in tears, returning not long after.

https://crooksandliars.com/2006/01/12/martha-ann-bomgardner-leaves-in-tears

During Graham's speech, Alito's wife, Martha-Ann Bomgardner left her husband's confirmation hearings in tears, returning not long after.

Anyone notice that Lindsey Graham seems to always be involved in something?

Wolcott: "If Alito is confirmed, Mrs. Alito and Judge Clarence Thomas's wife can commiserate by exchanging monogrammed crying towels as their men folk roll back women's rights and civil liberties and go duck hunting weekends with Scalia."

[fescuerescue]

10. People see in testimony what they want to see

Fact is. few of us are body language experts.

He probably guilty. But I don't put much faith in armchair body language experts.

[BlackSkimmer]

16. "Probably"?

There is absolutely no doubt he killed those men and wounded the other.

That’s been proven.

[fescuerescue]

45. good to know

I haven't followed the case at all.

As I understand it, both parties were armed, but I really don't know any further details other than I'm supposed to root for the other guy.

[BlackSkimmer]

46. The shootings are on video.

The one guy who lived was armed as well. Also claiming to be a medic.

The other two were unarmed. This stupid punk would never have ventured into that area without his big, bad gun. I think he’ll probably get off, but I’ve no doubt his comeuppance will arrive eventually.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

25. They do see what they want. Confirmation bias:

Judging from his testimony, this kid is as close to a saint as you can get
23 posted on 2021-11-10, by chuckee ( from front pages)

"Judging from his testimony, this kid is as close to a saint as you can get"

That's what I was thinking. He has such a good heart. Nothing,
absolutely nothing so far has set off an alarm in me to think that he's Bs'ing.
I'm praying for him. He needs our prayers for strength.
55 posted on 2021-11-10, by 1_Rain_Drop ("There will be
a smooth transition to a second Trump administration” - Pompeo)

However, ater seeing his testimony I wouldn’t be surprised if the
judge and jury just lets him walk out the back door.
One of the most compelling and convincing live witnessed I’ve seen.
63 posted on 2021-11-10, by AAABEST (NY/DC/LA
media/political/military industrial complex DELENDA EST)

[Disaffected]

41. As well you shouldn't.

Trying to divine whether someone is lying by observation of body language is dodgy at best and not nearly reliable enough for determination of guilt or innocence (or, for that matter, selecting a jury).

For instance, consider the pressure a defendant charged with a very serious crime is under when being cross examined. Even though he/she may be telling the complete truth in response to a potentially damning question, the knowledge that so much depends on whether he/she is believed by the jury can make someone so nervous that they may stumble, misspeak or squirm in attempting to articulate an answer i.e. the same characteristics that may lead some to believe or at least suspect the defendant is lying or being evasive. This is one of the factors BTW that make polygraphs unreliable - the defendant, for similar reasons, may perspire and breath harder (thus causing blips on the polygraph) in answering a question even though he is telling the truth.

[littlemissmartypants]

42. I taught deception detection at the university level as a grad student.

It was one of the many jobs I had which helped me to work my way through multiple advanced degrees.

Here's my take:

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16038044

[hlthe2b]

11. I see a lot of people (including here) taken in by his tears. Not everyone can read body language

cues. For some it is instinctive. For others, they need to learn the cues.

This guy is lying through and through IMHO and assessment (with some prior training). I hope to see an official analysis by Body Language expert, Dr. Jack Brown--who has been known to weigh in on public figures' "performances" like this.

[Disaffected]

12. "Body language" evidence??

Why does that sound like hair & fibre or blood splatter evidence or, polygraph evidence?

[hlthe2b]

14. It is not evidence. It is how jurors will interpret his behavior on the stand. It is an instinctive

aspect of human interpretation. That said, it IS used all the time in voir dire by each side to choose those potential jurors to challenge. And in that context, it has been very well validated as a predictive tool. And whether you admit it or not, YOU use it, as least subconsciously, to react to others and to determine what is credible that you are being told and what is not. So, too will the jurors.

And yes, there are microaggressions, microexpressions that have been validated scientifically in terms of body language. You may think the entire fields of behavioral science and psychology are bogus, but sad for you if you do.

My field is medicine, but I have an interest and appreciation for other fields of science. If you are anti-science then you should bypass any posts I make. If you are bothered by my comment because I don't believe a word out of Kyle's mouth, well then, I suspect he's going to get off scott-free. So, not to worry. Just like George Zimmerman. So, if you want to buy his "performance" as real and feel sorry for him, so be it. I most certainly do not.

[Disaffected]

38. Wow, now there's some extrapolation for you.

You seem to have me figured out, probably in the same manner you seem to believe I'm likely "anti-science" and feel sorry for the perp.

Whether or not it is used in court as "evidence", I still contend such subjective beliefs fall into the same rubric as the aforementioned hair & fibre analysis etc.

Other than that I'll have nothing more to say on the matter (other than to add, if I'm ever brought to trial for a serious crime I hope some of the posters to this thread and others are not on the jury).

[hlthe2b]

40. Uh huh.

I get it. You don't understand what I am talking about, but instead of asking you become condescending. That tells me something but I will simply move on. Bye.

[Tanuki]

13. I first heard the crying on my car radio and thought it was totally

phony and contrived. Later, when I saw a video clip, it was even more evident. It was completely ludicrous, and I am also confident in my assessment.

[WHITT]

17. Really Bad Liar

and a Really bad crier.

[George II]

18. That last hour was devastating. If it doesn't result in a guilty verdict at least it should be....

...a hung jury.

That might be good, a retrial would not have this shitty judge.

[dem4decades]

19. Luckily the Judge is running interference for him, his acting doesn't matter.

And I don't have much hope for the jury either.

[tiredtoo]

20. No tears and a glance at jury

to see if they were buying his fake cry.

[BlackSkimmer]

47. Yeah, that was pathetic. nt

[bullwinkle428]

23. So was George Zimmerman. That POS walked, and this one may very well

end up doing the same.

[jimmil]

24. He was definitely "coached" as any good defense team would, but....

his constant, "I felt it was a threat and my life was in danger," sounds like the same old gun toting trope used by the NRA when laws are passed allowing people to be armed on the streets. The kid went there with gun in hand to show those leftist what justice is and to prove what a man he is.

[localroger]

35. His problem is that coaching only works if you have talent

This kid is a fucking moron. It probably isn't helping that people he admires have been buying him drinks and propping him up as a hero in the time between his crime and the trial. He simply can't emote believably. He's a smug little punk who came to town to hunt black and liberal humans, and made a score and he's still fucking proud of himself for making a score. And he is confident his buds will get him out of this crime bidness because he's all white and heroic and male and shit.

[KT2000]

26. Even if he is found guilty

the judge will void the jury's decision and let him off as in not guilty.

[madaboutharry]

29. I don't think a judge has that power.

[KT2000]

44. Yes, it can happen and I've heard of a case

judgment notwithstanding the verdict (JNOV) (from Cornell Law)
Primary tabs
A judgment by the trial judge after a jury has issued a verdict, setting aside the jury's verdict and entering a judgment in favor of the losing party without a new trial. A JNOV is very similar to a directed verdict except for the timing within a trial. A judge will issue a JNOV if he or she determines that no reasonable jury could have reached the jury’s verdict based on the evidence presented at trial, or if the jury incorrectly applied the law in reaching its verdict. A trial judge may grant a JNOV in response to a motion for a judgment notwithstanding the verdict by the losing party, or in some jurisdictions like California, sua sponte. In a civil case, the judge can grant a JNOV in favor of both plaintiffs and defendants. Some jurisdictions require that a party preserve the right to move for a JNOV by moving for a directed verdict earlier in the trial. A motion for a judgment notwithstanding the verdict is often filed together with a motion for a new trial by the losing party in response to the jury’s verdict. A judge’s decision to grant or deny a motion for JNOV is often reviewable on appeal. The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure have replaced JNOV with Judgement as a Matter of Law (JMOL).

[localroger]

36. It doesn't work that way.

If he's convicted his side can appeal, but the judge can't vacate the jury's decision.

[KT2000]

43. I have heard of this happening

judgment notwithstanding the verdict (JNOV) (from Cornell Law)

A judgment by the trial judge after a jury has issued a verdict, setting aside the jury's verdict and entering a judgment in favor of the losing party without a new trial. A JNOV is very similar to a directed verdict except for the timing within a trial. A judge will issue a JNOV if he or she determines that no reasonable jury could have reached the jury’s verdict based on the evidence presented at trial, or if the jury incorrectly applied the law in reaching its verdict. A trial judge may grant a JNOV in response to a motion for a judgment notwithstanding the verdict by the losing party, or in some jurisdictions like California, sua sponte. In a civil case, the judge can grant a JNOV in favor of both plaintiffs and defendants. Some jurisdictions require that a party preserve the right to move for a JNOV by moving for a directed verdict earlier in the trial. A motion for a judgment notwithstanding the verdict is often filed together with a motion for a new trial by the losing party in response to the jury’s verdict. A judge’s decision to grant or deny a motion for JNOV is often reviewable on appeal. The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure have replaced JNOV with Judgement as a Matter of Law (JMOL).

[tclambert]

28. He brought a rifle with him from home.

It didn't just magically appear when he supposedly felt threatened. That suggests premeditation. If he felt so scared at home that the crowd at the protest might turn on him he could have stayed home. Instead he went down there planning to shoot people.

[MustLoveBeagles]

31. I'll have to be that person

He didn't bring the gun in from Illinois. The gun likely originated as a straw purchase by a friend of his that is a Wisconsin resident. I agree with the rest of your post. He went there looking form trouble.

[IcyPeas]

32. "He's also very well rehearsed. He's been through these videos a time or two with his lawyers."...

He’s also very well rehearsed. He’s been through these videos a time or two with his lawyers.

Link to tweet

?t=PXPLfH6ZIkkAAtCYXf7R3g&s=19

[localroger]

37. Well rehearsed yes, but also zero acting skill. /nt

[Dreampuff]

33. I finally found people who agree with my assessment

Several people commenting on court TV apparently see things differently. I see him as a cold-blooded killer, a pathological liar, a bad actor, but he did learn all his lines well and keeps repeating them. His crying scene was pathetic, but the judge seems to have bought it.

Very narcissistic. He couldn't seem to grasp the question from the prosecuting attorney when he asked how the other person would feel with his gun pointing at them. He just kept saying that he was being threatened and didn't seem to understand others could feel threatened by him even after he had shot the first person. Keeping my hopes up the jury will see through him.

He's also done questionable things since the killings like going to a bar and drinking, legally because his mother was in there, wearing a nasty t-shirt, and having selfies taken with white supremacists. I looked up the political makeup of the area and it seems pretty evenly split so maybe there is hope.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

39. For this thread

Link to tweet