The Bonfires Are Coming

[peggysue2]

Anyone thinking the race to a new Dark Age is hyperbole should scan the Washington Post's article about a new cry in Virginia: Toss all objectionable books into the fire.

This isn't a new phenomenon. What's new is the sentiment has gained purchase in the MAGA-infused world where all critical thinking is a threat; where racial and gender discussions are forbidden; where myths about the Golden Age of the past are elevated; and noble, lost cause narratives continue unscarred, uncriticized and worshipped. Here's a taste, bitter as it is:

As the Fredericksburg Free-Lance Star reported Tuesday:

Two board members, Courtland representative Rabih Abuismail and Livingston representative Kirk Twigg, said they would like to see the removed books burned.
“I think we should throw those books in a fire,” Abuismail said, and Twigg said he wants to “see the books before we burn them so we can identify within our community that we are eradicating this bad stuff.”


If there isn't a long, shrieking howl over this, we are on our way to ruin. Burning books, starting with the suggestion that somehow these subjects are not worthy of teaching and/or crowd out the teaching of Christian values, cannot be normalized or ignored. We pretend this sentiment is fringe, irrelevant at our own peril.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/10/i-think-we-should-throw-those-books-fire-movement-builds-right-target-books/

[musette_sf]

1. "reading... about Christ" in PUBLIC SCHOOL???🔥🔥🔥

Abuismail reportedly added that allowing one particular book to remain on the shelves even briefly meant the schools “would rather have our kids reading gay pornography than about Christ.”

[malletgirl02]

2. Has he read the Bible?

The Bible is full of sex and violence. If he was being consistent then the Bible would have to be banned as well.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

3. A more or less historical 'book about Christ' in the school library is perfectly fine IMHO

Not religious texts, obviously.

It does say on the shelves, not a textbook kind of thing I assume.

I seriously doubt any public school has gay pornography in the school library, however

[NoSheep]

10. When I see this kind of thing I assume the accuser wants gay pornography. Has it on their mind.

I wish they'd just go get some and stfu

[NullTuples]

16. Any book that posits Jesus of Naz as a real person is by definition a religious text

There can be books about the religion from an outside perspective, but they usually acknowledge that there are no sources contemporary w/ the New Testament that confirm the Christian deity-person existed.

[ECL213]

20. This is just an incorrect statement...

There are historical documents outside of the New Testament that talk about Jesus. And there would probably be a helluva lot more if the Catholic Church had not had those which didn't meet their criteria (virgin birth, without sin, God made flesh, etc.) destroyed.

[NullTuples]

32. Cite them, please.

[ECL213]

35. Jewish historian Josephus...Roman historian Tacitus...

Now you can tell me that other historians dispute their accounts and blah, blah, blah. Save it.

[NullTuples]

36. OFFS - Tacitus was born 25 yrs post-crucifixion date!

That's NOT EVEN CLOSE to being contemporary with the events written about.

Likewise, Flavius Josephus wasn't born until around 93 CE.

These were people writing two generations later.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

38. Agreed. There are not contemporaneously written accounts of his existence

even though he was supposedly going around performing miracles during his lifetime. And this is from an area/era when there actually are a good deal of existing records/writings.

As such, he is almost certainly a fictional character, I 100% agree.

Also you said contemporary with the New Testament ... I'm talking about while he walked around, which is what I *think* you meant. NT is written well after he lived.

But I wouldn't go to bat for not allowing 'books about Jesus' on the shelf in the library at a public school. Not worth it. You can't teach it in class, but the library is different.

[ECL213]

37. You said "contemporary w/the New Testament"...

which means an account written at the same time as the New Testament. Regardless, you will be hard pressed to find many history books about anyone living at that time written by a "contemporary". It is not proof the person did not exist.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

39. Actually, there's lots of writings and records from that area (and era) still in existence

As such, we know we a high degree of certainty that prominent people existed.

Someone going around performing amazing miracles as described in the Bible, at that time? There would, in fact, almost surely be contemporaneous records written by someone who witnessed them. And 'the church' was looking from them starting in like 400 AD or thereabouts, IIRC. Had they found any, they'd have been preserved. But they never found any.

Obviously 'history books' aren't written by 'contemporaries' for the most part, true.

[ECL213]

43. Yeah...

'the church' definitely would have preserved anything that talked about Jesus. Especially if it didn't jibe with their version of events.

Believe what you want fellas, I'm going to go read some stupid posts about cats.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

44. I love that you correctly used 'jibe' there :)

Okay, so maybe there was 'some dude named Jesus' who was 'from Nazareth', at some point.

But if he actually did nothing remotely like what 'the church' described, had nothing in common with that story, other than maybe being a son of a carpenter, and having had a small band of 'followers' or the like ... then was there actually ever a historical Jesus?

I would say no.

Pretty sure I read there are official records of crucifixions from that time, with descriptions of crimes/charges ... but nobody named Jesus (or however it was pronounced in the native tongue) at the time. Obviously records can be lost so that doesn't prove much, but 'the church' most certainly would've wanted to hold on to THAT record if they'd found it.

Put it this way, there are much more compelling, contemporaneous records suggesting Hercules was a real man, and that he was notably big and strong ... than that there was a Jesus dude performing outright miracles (a vastly more notable trait than 'big and strong'). From the same era, btw.

[ECL213]

46. Let me conclude by saying this...

I'm f'ing awesome, but after the Q's blow up all the gubmint suppositories and libarrys there will be no record of me, and it may very well be a few generations before someone puts pen to paper to chronicle my awesomeness.

[NullTuples]

42. My apologies & thank you; I meant to type, "contemporary with the events portrayed in the NT"

[dalton99a]

4. Kick

[WorkDoctor]

5. It will be we who are blamed

for going there by stating the obvious -- the Nazification of Germany in the '30's

[NullTuples]

18. That's Magnus Hirschfeld's LGBTQ-supportive research library being burned.

"On January 30, 1933, Adolf Hitler was officially appointed chancellor of Germany. On May 6, 1933, Nazi demonstrators raided the libraries of the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft, roughly translated as the Institute of Sexology. The Institute was a privately operated research space for studies of human sexuality. More than 20,000 books were taken from shelves and burned days later in the streets by Nazi youth groups."
( from: https://www.teenvogue.com/story/lgbtq-institute-in-germany-was-burned-down-by-nazis )

More info here: https://lalanquist.com/2019/02/01/trans-history-the-institut-fur-sexualwissenschaft/


By March of that year, the SS would establish the Dachau concentration camp; the following month (April 1933) members of the Nazi Party and its affiliated organizations would organize a nationwide boycott of Jewish-owned businesses in Germany. That same month German law would exclude Jews and other political opponents from civil service positions & limit the number of Jewish students in public schools. By May book burnings were nationwide. In July, new German law mandated the forced sterilization of disabled people as "useless mouths". Autistics that Hans Asperger deemed of lesser intelligence would become the first test of public sentiment toward the state killing anyone who was deemed a negative impact on the resources of the German people. It was also on them that the "showers" were invented and perfected. Meanwhile, more anti-Jewish laws and actions were enacted than can fit into a single comment like this. In 1934 Hitler became the absolute dictator of Germany. In the next year Jehovah's Witness were banned, revision of Paragraphs 175 and 175a facilitated the systematic persecution of homosexual men in Nazi Germany, and The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 were passed to fully segregate Jews into either slums...or concentration camps. The annexation of Austria wouldn't happen for three more years, in March 11, 1938.

These things appear to happen quickly once the ball starts rolling. But that's only because while it's happening most people ignore that the pieces are being slotted into place one by one to await being needed.

[peggysue2]

24. Bingo!

These things appear to happen quickly once the ball starts rolling. But that's only because while it's happening most people ignore that the pieces are being slotted into place one by one to await being needed.

This, exactly this.

Which is why we need to decry every slice of this plan to take us back 'to the good ole days.' Which is really about pushing back on minorities, women, immigrants, religions other than this perverted form of Christianity, and anything else that doesn't suit the alt-right, MAGA brains.

Little by little, it picks up steam, be it censorship or continued attacks on our institutions, the rule of law. Norms are shattered, basic decency goes by the wayside until any means (vigilante justice, for instance) can and will justify the desired end. In addition, Americans are being lulled into the idea that democracy has had it's day, that for the US to compete in the modern era, we need to put away antiquated, ineffective systems like our constitutional Republic. A unitary executive is what we need, yessir! Former Attorney General William Barr was a keen proponent of the theory.

We all saw how well that turned out.

And Barr is one of many others, organizations and corporate interests who would just love a chance to rewrite the Constitution, bring it up to snuff, aka enshrining their own interests, much of which is driven by greed and a lust for power. Donald Trump isn't the only man who wants to be King of the World.

So yes, even the small things and shout outs to transform the United States of America into another authoritarian regime demand immediate and constant pushback.

Because collapses start slow. Until they spin out of control.

[hadEnuf]

25. Treat Nazis like Nazis.

Our parents and grandparents didn't shy away from them in 1941 - 1945 and we shouldn't either.

[Withywindle]

27. +1

That fire right there put understanding of transgender people alone back a good century. People who think that trans people are some kind of new phenomenon...it's a lack of knowledge that Nazis made possible. If Hirschfeld's extensive interviews, studies, and research had survived, we'd have known better societally a long time ago.

[cilla4progress]

6. All I can hope is

these are death throes.

[Saboburns]

7. "Sure we'll burn them books, but first we gotta build this here wall."

THE planks of the 2024 Republican party platform.


SMDH

[AleksS]

8. So....when they're talking about burning books...

Do they ever even pause to think about whether just maybe they’re the “baddies?”

Is book burning ever done by good guys?

How far down the “bad guy” path do they have to go before even they can’t help but see it?

Is it stealing candy from babies?
Kicking puppies?

Apparently it’s past the “burning books” line somewhere…

[taxi]

15. many may think that book burning was a thing a country did, not some guys

It fits right in with identifying caravans, hordes, and pretty much all the other groupings, except for insurgents.

[Poiuyt]

9. We are, as a nation, reverting back to the 14th century

We are sliding back down the rankings for highest standard of living around the world. What bothers me more than that is the anti-intellectual outlook of so many people. It's embarrassing that people are proud of their ignorance.

[patphil]

11. How very Nazi of them.

[liberalgunwilltravel]

12. How long?

How long before “burn the books” turns into “burn ‘those’ people?”

[ashredux]

13. Raise your hand if you knew there were dildo references in the Bible.

“You also took the fine jewelry I gave you, the jewelry made of my gold and silver, and you made for yourself male idols and engaged in prostitution with them.” (Ezekiel 16:17)

[Traildogbob]

14. Burn the BuyBull

No writing has ever caused more death. Maybe the warped versions of the Karan and other religious texts, but the BuyBull has to be up top for causing violent death.

[gab13by13]

17. I just read,

A Stranger in a Strange Land, I'm guessing that one definitely goes in the fire.

[TygrBright]

19. Sure, Ray Bradbury wrote "fiction". Sort of. n/t

[HuskyOffset]

21. This always come to mind

Lyrics:

"Witch Hunt"

The night is black
Without a moon
The air is thick and still
The vigilantes gather on
The lonely torch lit hill

Features distorted in the flickering light
The faces are twisted and grotesque
Silent and stern in the sweltering night
The mob moves like demons possessed
Quiet in conscience, calm in their right
Confident their ways are best

The righteous rise
With burning eyes
Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies
To beat and burn and kill

They say there are strangers who threaten us
In our immigrants and infidels
They say there is strangeness too dangerous
In our theaters and bookstore shelves
That those who know what's best for us
Must rise and save us from ourselves

Quick to judge
Quick to anger
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand...

[gab13by13]

22. I found out that

Libertarians hate, "To Kill a Mockingbird."

[flying_wahini]

33. Why am I not surprised? CRT In that book the black man in framed by a white woman.

I think it is a required reading for 10-12 graders in Texas.

[FakeNoose]

23. Book burning doesn't mean much in the electronic age

Just sayin'

[ancianita]

28. It does for several reasons. First, it does when the electricity goes down. And it will.

Second, it does because analogic information still retains original documentation of events.
Revisionists who are the first to deny Jim Crow, the Holocaust and viruses are also the first to ban published records and proof of their existence.

[FakeNoose]

30. If everyone has "To Kill A Mockingbird" on their phone or tablet

... why should it matter if the physical books get burned?

[ancianita]

31. Ever hear of bricking? Digital erosion? They are real.

[ConstanceCee]

26. What's Next

How long before they start going after public libraries? I wonder if members of the Party of Parents read much.

[ancianita]

29. Book burning is exactly what the corporate world wants. No historical record.

Corporate world gets to retell human history to justify their domination of humans, governments and everything else on Earth.

Accelerationism precedes revisionism.

[Pepsidog]

34. For the past month I have been on a Renaissance kick watching and reading everything I can. Tons of

art history videos on YouTube, as well as documentaries and I, was thinking the same thing. From the Classical world of Greece to the rise of the Roman Republic the Empire to the Sack of Rome. Great societies rise up and eventually fall because of religion, superstition, and the rejection of science. Coming out of the Dark Ages they had lost the recipe for cement and marveled at the ruins created over 1000 years before. We see all the Savornella’s ready to burn books and art in the name of religion and the rejection of science. Julius Cesare was stabbed to death because he threatened the wealth and power of the Senate. Seems like nothing changes. The public today is all too willing to vote against their interest and reject science and reason in favor of religion and superstition. As I saw the people screaming about books in Va I could not help but think about the new coming Dark Age.

[Hortensis]

40. BAD RW extremism sign. BUT, also now a lot more show than effect.

These aren't the old days when books were overall precious-rare, available to most only through local libraries and bookstores and when burning could genuinely deprive whole communities, even regions.

These days the barbarians will have to satisfy themselves with more of a show of censorship than the real thing. And watch the backlash.

[alterfurz]

41. "In that place where they burn books...

...in the end they will also burn people." -- Heinrich Heine (1797-1856), native of Düsseldorf, site of the first Nazi book burning in 1933, which included Heine's own works.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

45. Maybe we should

Buy these banned books and make an underground library that those maga assholes wont know about and cannot find.

To this day Gnostic texts are being discovered because someone wanted to save the scrolls ,they hid them in clay jars,buried them in remote places like inside caves.