To recap: I can go somewhere openly carrying my assault rifle...

[Girard442]

If anyone confronts me, I can kill them, claiming self-defense, and since they're dead, they can't testify against me. Doesn't matter whether they're armed or not, because nail clippers and key chains can be lethal weapons too, dontcha know. If anyone else tries to stop me, I can kill them too.

What's next? Shoot people carrying in the back because you claim to have seen "signs" they're about to be an active shooter?

[A HERETIC I AM]

1. This country is fucking doomed by its own collective stupidity.

The stupid people are outnumbered by the not stupid, but they’re louder and more motivated, and as a result, will tear this country completely apart.

If I could leave, I’d be gone.

[SammyWinstonJack]

11. In a heartbeat I'd be gone if I could.

[dixiechiken1]

34. Ditto.

[Wingus Dingus]

35. I'm almost there in sentiment.

[twodogsbarking]

2. You can take your rifle to the park

but no dogs allowed. Livin' in the USA. Somebody give me a cheese booger.

[Blues Heron]

5. what park has no dogs allowed? Thats BS- just leash those things

[MiHale]

13. Have a park by me that no dogs are allowed...

Northern Michigan. We always had dogs and used to travel quite a bit with them parks all over have a “no dogs allowed” policy.

Edited to add: Leashed or not

[twodogsbarking]

19. Thanks. Nice to see truth is welcome at times.

[Farmer-Rick]

20. Yeah, who has never heard of no dogs allowed???

There are plenty of parks, beaches and trails where dogs are banned. It's so common as to be unremarkable. It's remarkable when they are allowed.

But rarely do those places that ban dogs also post no deadly weapons allowed. And it seems, according to a mass murder's judge, murdering a few people is fine too as long as you are a Trump humper.

[twodogsbarking]

23. I don't think local municipalities can pass gun laws that contradict federal law.

They try.

[JanMichael]

42. Can only do it on the property that's owned by the local government

Like a city hall or a County courthouse or a park or Community Center or parking garage maybe. But it's hard to enforce except with metal detectors and making doing business with local government. Difficult

[Wounded Bear]

24. That's because so many dog owners didn't clean up after their animals...

Dog feces in areas where people are trying to R&R is a health hazard.

I suppose it's better now, though there are still people out there that don't clean up. And to be honest, picking up the feces doesn't really "clean" the area, the bacteria and the smells linger.

The simple answer was "No Dogs Allowed."

[NullTuples]

36. CA State Parks:

"Dogs are not allowed on any of the parks designated trails; near the river or creeks; in the open forest and meadows; or in the environmental campsites"


That leaves some beaches, playgrounds, picnic areas, parking lots, etc. - dogs tend to not fit in well with some of the more fragile ecosystems, so they're mostly allowed in the areas where people are most often.

[CrackityJones75]

44. Tell me you aren't intentionally missing the point

Tell me you aren’t intentionally missing the point without telling me you are intentionally missing the point.

[twodogsbarking]

45. I inadvertently changed the subject and fucked up

the earth's rotation.

[CrackityJones75]

46. Amazing!

[doc03]

28. Two cops tased a 78 year old man for urinating in

the park but you can open carry an AK 47.

[exboyfil]

3. If you are the right color and political affiliation

Also low ready with a rifle is brandishing as far as I am concerned. There is no f__king reason to carry a rifle at low ready in a populated area with the exception of transporting it to your car for hunting or the gun range.

A long gun is impractical for self defense if you are moving around or "assisting" in medical and fire suppression.

See what happens if a group of people carry rifles at low ready towards the police station. He was smart enough to have his rifle slung and hands up when he went to the police. They perceive a rifle at low ready as a threat just like any normal person.

That being said you are a moron if you attack someone with a rifle unless you are in a fight or flight situation. He should never have been there provoking individuals with his brandishing (even though it is probably not legally brandishing).

[usaf-vet]

7. It is harder although not impossible to legally buy a handgun. Certianly not underage in a honest...

... gun shop. A long gun can be justified as a necessary item to hunt.

[hadEnuf]

39. And that's exactly what the little nazi bastard was doing:

Hunting. Humans.

[Pacifist Patriot]

4. You beat me to it.

[winagawaukee]

6. It looked cool

During the trial he was asked why he had his friend buy the AR15 style weapon for him. He answered he did not buy the weapon for hunting but because it looked cool.

His friend should be charged with murder too.

[littlemissmartypants]

9. Excellent point! And welcome to DU, winagawaukee. ❤

[Poiuyt]

47. Welcome to DU!

Are you from Wisconsin?

[yardwork]

8. You can do all those things if you're a Republican supporting authoritarianism.

If you're protesting authoritarianism then you get shot. The "threat" you pose is to the authoritarian way.

This is fascism.

[marie999]

10. A friend of ours shot and wounded a White burglar in his house about 20 years ago in Florida.

When the cop came he said it would be a lot easier for my friend and him if he would just kill the guy. My friend didn't know if the cop was serious or not but he wouldn't kill him.

[multigraincracker]

12. Is it a wallet, a cell phone, or is it a gun. Hard to tell

[The Jungle 1]

14. That pasty faced, flabby, scum was not legally carrying the gun.

He was underage!
This was a lynching and I fear the coward will get off. Our justice system does not have a very good history.
On December 26, 1862, 38 Dakota men were hanged at Mankato. This was punishment for the Dakota war of 1862. These men were not really hung they were strangled to death. Somehow the ropes used on the massive gallows were two short and no necks broke. Wonder how that could happen. The crowd loved it. 38 Native Americans all strangling at once.
Then in 1865 (two years and five months later) the civil war ended. How did we punish Lee and all the southern treasonous scum. We just let them go home. The only Americans punished after our Civil war were thousands of Black Americans. The punishment went on for years. Oh wait, it still goes on.
So is the Dakota war taught in high school history class?

[Buckeyeblue]

15. That seems to be an accurate summary

The key element is that you need to ensure the other person is dead. That way only the hero fantasy side of the story gets told.

We need to rewrite self defense laws. They need to tighten up a person's ability to bait someone into a confrontation.

The SC is going to rewrite the second amendment next year to make laws that limit gun possession illegal, which I guess makes us all one big militia.

The only reaction to that is severe consequences for those who pull out their gun and use it.

One last point: I have no problem with someone shooting a home intruder. You break into someone's house, you get what you get. If someone truly attacks you, they get what the get. Anything else is murder.

[YoshidaYui]

16. curious what states have the "stand your ground" law

guessing that is Florida and Texas = not sure Wisconsin has that but maybe something similar

[AndyS]

30. Here ya' go . . .

Stand your ground law by US jurisdiction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#:~:text=Stand%20your%20ground%20law,settled%20rule%20(AS%2C%20VI)

All the green is stand your ground.

[Ohioboy]

17. Just say "they were trying to take my gun and kill me with it"

Since they are dead no one can prove you wrong. That's pretty much where we are at in this country.

[Evolve Dammit]

18. IF you're white. Or rich and connected.

[MuseRider]

21. How about making that hard for them

but they can keep their rule.

Guns allowed but you must be wearing a nice, 3 piece suit or a nice pantsuit with heels.

We could make it hard on them but we all know that takes more guts than anyone with the power to do it.

[Alwaysna]

22. I can go somewhere....

But a mother gets hassled just trying to feed her baby without wearing a burqa!

[maxsolomon]

49. Wut

[twodogsbarking]

25. It is possible to have civil conversations about guns.

Haven't seen it yet but I still hope.

[hunter]

55. I won't stop mocking gun fetishists.

Gun fetishes are disgusting.

[doc03]

26. I am 73 I can use my age. "I felt threatened

I am 73 years old that guy was 40 years younger than me."

[Wounded Bear]

27. Hell, even in the wild west, you couldn't shoot an unarmed man...

at least not in public.

[doc03]

29. In many places in the wild west you had to check

your guns in with the Sheriff.

[Wounded Bear]

31. In some towns, you could check your guns at a hotel or saloon bartender...

and probably other choices.

The important thing was that open carry was illegal in many towns.

[exboyfil]

57. Now we have the equivalent of people carrying around a weapon

in New York in the 19th century that has the capacity of nearly a company of musket wielding men.

[gulliver]

32. Teens and self-appointed militia yahoos driving around in trucks with AR-15s

Where have a I seen that picture before? Afghanistan? Iraq? We went over there to keep them from coming over here I thought. But while we were doing that, some of us turned into them.

[gordianot]

33. Apparently between the Supreme Court and nasty trial judges it is acceptable to get armed.

Make sure your teenager has his assault rifle and your daughter packs her pistol to fend off sexual predators.

[SunSeeker]

43. And yet those judges won't let you open carry in their courtrooms.

"Safety for me, not for thee."

[paleotn]

37. One caveat.....

Your "assailant" has to be a librul or a brown person. It's weapons free on both groups apparently.

[dlk]

38. The NRA's political narrative has been massively destructive

It has caused tremendous death and destruction, and is truly barbaric.

[Sympthsical]

40. Depends on the open carry laws

The rest of the world thinks we're totally insane on this one. People just toting rifles in public. But, that's our laws and gun culture is a thing in America that's pretty unique in the Western world.

Anyone who attacks you without cause is generally going to trigger a self-defense claim, gun present or not.

In this case, it's not a matter of "They're dead, no one can testify." There is tons of video, pictures, and testimony.

So I don't think the hypothetical here is very apt. We have a very clear idea of what happened that night. A court just spent all week discussing it.

[Girard442]

48. "Attacks" conjures up images of someone coming at you with a machete to decapitate you.

What if they only make a furtive move toward their wasteband? Threatening gesture? Credible threat of harm to you?

Sucks for them that they were only scratching an itch, but how could the shooter know that for sure?

[Sympthsical]

52. Depends on the situation, depends on the law, depends on the jury

Mix in state statutes will differ on what comprises provocation. I know the relevant Wisconsin statute has been posted here a couple times.

I do know, yesterday when they were arguing jury instructions, provocation was a big deal. What does and does not count. Wasn't following well enough to say how it washed out, but the defense wasn't so happy in how the judge was leaning about how the prosecutor's argument was being fit into the instructions. And there's also been a change in the possibility he can get lesser convictions. That hadn't really been a thing before, but the instruction arguments may have altered it.

So before yesterday, the leading thought was he was just going to walk on the serious charges. Now, there's a possibility (maybe, because I don't think the judge as concretely ruled on these things yet), that he may get some lesser but still serious charge.

I still don't think he'll get a full-on murder conviction. But maybe the jury will want to give him something for his behavior, for inserting himself into the situation to begin with. Maybe they'll feel, "There have to be some consequences here," and the prosecution was definitely trying to the open door to that yesterday.

If you'd asked me 24 hours ago, I'd have guessed he walks on nearly everything. Now - just my spidey sense - I think there's a real possibility of him getting slapped with something. What, I have no idea.

[hunter]

41. In my community it's hard to say who would take your gun first...

... the cops or some 14 year old with a stolen hand gun who wants to impress his gang.

Such an encounter might not be survivable.

A few years ago one of our neighbors walked into a fast food place carrying his fancy assault rifle. He didn't threaten anyone directly but someone called the cops. The guy didn't immediately drop his gun when the cops arrived so they shot him dead.

It's been my personal experience that once the guns come out everything is FUBAR.

People who are infatuated with guns, including cops, don't generally have the temperament to avoid the FUBAR.

[maxsolomon]

50. Parading about with an MSSA rifle is intimidation.

they believe they're making a 2nd Amendment point, but they're just-this-side-of-legally brandishing (which is still a crime).

our dumb constitution is so poorly worded it makes that behavior "patriotic".

[exboyfil]

56. That is my point as well - How is low ready of a long gun not brandishing?

It is a whole lot different situation than a holstered hand gun. I think 2A folks would do themselves a favor by rejecting carrying a long gun in a populated area outside of a case unless it is immediately needed for self defense.

Also I am pretty certain that folks in New York weren't walking around with muskets in their hands regularly in the late 18th century when the 2nd Amendment was written. Now you are carrying the equivalent of a squad or even a company of men in a populated area and the right is ok with it.

[moondust]

51. Former pResident says

if you and your mob are angry at somebody it's understandable if you try to hunt them down in order to hang them. Hell, that used to be fairly common in some parts. MAGA!

USAsylum

[pinkstarburst]

53. I hate how many guns we have

I hate that "riots" are allowed where everyone is carrying guns and destroying/looting businesses and this is somehow acceptable in place of peaceful protest.

I am sickened by all the guns.

I am sickened by the all the violence.

I am sickened by all the riots and looting.

We will never solve this until we solve the issue of guns.

[mzmolly]

54. If Rittenhouse had walked into his highschool

Last edited Sat Nov 13, 2021, 04:38 PM - Edit history (1)

carrying an AK47, he could have been justifiably shot. But, a kid with a skateboard or a backpack shouldn't defend himself against a guy with an assault weapon? WTF?!

Gun fetishists' suck.