Anyone been to a church service like this ? John Hagee Cornerstone Church

[luckone]

Link to tweet

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Link to tweet

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[DURHAM D]

1. sick

[IcyPeas]

2. Sheep

[dalton99a]

3. A "Christian" church that chants "Fuck Joe Biden"

[PufPuf23]

4. When do these types of "religious" organizations lose their

non-profit and other financially favorable treatment.

This is not appropriate in a house of worship and these are sick people with evil leaders that deliberately feed violence and hate while they accumulate tax-free money.

[Phoenix61]

7. Not soon enough. nt

[Mariana]

9. No.

They're supposed to lose their tax-exempt status if they preach partisan politics, but that hasn't been enforced for ages. The churches know perfectly well that they can do this and nothing will happen.

[Bev54]

5. It is not a church but a cult.

[lees1975]

6. Hagee is a heretic and always has been

What would be surprising would be to find the true Christian gospel being preached in that congregation.

[Mariana]

10. That flavor of Christianity is very popular in the United States. nt.

[Celerity]

13. Classic 'No True Scotsman' logical fallacy

What would be surprising would be to find the true Christian gospel being preached

You are using, for example, the same faulty logic the Taliban and Wahabis use (in regards to Islam) to arbitrarily pick and choose definitions of what is a 'true' and correct form of a religion.

The same faulty logic, working from the other end of the spectrum, is on display where so-called moderate Muslims try to claim the Taliban and the Wahabis are the apostates and not 'true' followers of Allah.

Religion is entirely man-made and thus always will be subjective. There, by definition, can be no 'true' form, as humans are distinct and non-uniform in thought and perception when compared to other human beings.




The willing suspension of disbelief required and necessary to believe in any and all god or gods is the single biggest tragedy and mistake in the 2.5 or so million year history of hominids/humans.

That wilful suspension's wages have been, and always will be, at the end of the day; agony, torment, malicious control, prejudice, self-loathing, ignorance, torture, sorrow, darkness, pain, fear, hate, and death.

[littlemissmartypants]

14. Thank you. ❤

[panader0]

19. The last two sentences. Excellent. Thanks Celerity.

[TreasonousBastard]

24. Here we go again...

No true Scotsman presumes there is a Scotsman to begin with.

Religion was started because kings were useless as the higher power to adjudicate moral questions and make them understandable to the masses. It also answered questions others couldn't. Science can't answer the last digits of pi or what is beyond the end of the universe. Religion simply says "why bother".

It still performs that function when you look at the actual writings, although they are regularly perverted to account for the greed and power crazes of our "leaders".

Religion didn't cause WWII, Napolean, the Aztec wars, Comanche wars, Mongol hordes, the American Revolution, the Civil war, or even tbe Crusades, although its speakers used it to happily advance their causes.

[Celerity]

25. Wrong. Religion started because of fear of the unkown, and then morphed into a means of control.

As for a gods, there never were any, and humans are certainly no mistake of them.

Gods are the mistakes of humans.

[TreasonousBastard]

27. I never said gods were real, just necessary. Perhaps humans...

are the mistakes of gods, though?

[Celerity]

29. An artificial concept based up suspension of disbelief is never necessary over the long run, and

always leads, on balance, at the end of the day, to misery and death.

Perhaps humans...
are the mistakes of gods, though?

Gods are not capable of producing anything by themselves, as they are mere constructs of humans. They are illusory manifestations of the human mind, conceived to fill voids in knowledge, then used as tools to control.

To quote the christian's bible:

'When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became an adult, I put away childish things.'

[TreasonousBastard]

31. To qoute Einstein, "the Universe is a marvelous design, and...

when there is a design, presumably there is s designer"

Einstein was, through most of his life after studying Spinoza, a determinist and could not imagine a creation without a creator. His
fight over newer theories changed some of his approach, but he was still a determemist till the end. Most other high end thinkers of that level tend not to be so absolute.

Everything ever said about the existence or nonexistence of gods has been said over the ages. And still sounds silly as ever.

[Celerity]

32. you are free to believe or not believe what you want, far be it from me to tread upon that right

I myself long ago dispensed with the teleological argument(s) and its positings about design and creator.


as for determinism and Einstein, here is a wee taste of counterargument

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indeterminism#Charles_Peirce

Tychism is a thesis proposed by the American philosopher Charles Sanders Peirce in the 1890s. It holds that absolute chance, also called spontaneity, is a real factor operative in the universe.

It may be considered both the direct opposite of Albert Einstein's oft quoted dictum that: "God does not play dice with the universe" and an early philosophical anticipation of Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

Peirce does not, of course, assert that there is no law in the universe. On the contrary, he maintains that an absolutely chance world would be a contradiction and thus impossible. Complete lack of order is itself a sort of order. The position he advocates is rather that there are in the universe both regularities and irregularities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indeterminism#Karl_Popper

In his essay Of Clouds and Clocks, included in his book Objective Knowledge, Popper contrasted "clouds", his metaphor for indeterministic systems, with "clocks", meaning deterministic ones. He sided with indeterminism, writing

I believe Peirce was right in holding that all clocks are clouds to some considerable degree — even the most precise of clocks. This, I think, is the most important inversion of the mistaken determinist view that all clouds are clocks.

[TreasonousBastard]

33. As you are free to believe or disbelieve, my argument is being so cocksure that...

you are correct. I am quite familiar with the authors you mention, but do not consider their philosophical arguments any more "truthful" than the authors of Genesis. They simply do not know for sure.

None of us has any idea what is going on several layers above us. Theorists try not to fool around with the last digit of Pi or other insoluble theorems. They do, however, allow the possibility of such things. The offer of a million bucks to prove the Riemann hypothesis is still a bit more than just a joke.

There have been good arguments against a god since at least Aristotle, but they are all dependent upon a three dimensional universe, which we're now pretty sure doesn't exist the way we thought it did.

Again, my problem is not disbelief, but the absolute disbelief in the possibility. And, the misunderstanding that gods only exist only to amplify our worst potential. That is easy enough to do with or without a god. I tend to believe that gods exist more to accentuate our positive characteristics, and then get perverted.

[Celerity]

34. I never stated this:

gods only exist only to amplify our worst potential

I said gods first came into existence as manifestations of human thought due to fear of the unknown and a need to explain the unknown, especially death.

Amplification of the worst tendencies of humans (usually involving religion), is only an outcome, not the reason for the existence of gods.

gods exist more to accentuate our positive characteristics, and then get perverted

Perversion for one is positivity and purity of interpretation for another.

[dawg]

28. What if the Scotsman preaches that wearing kilts and playing bagpipes are evil and ...

has apparently never been to Scotland?

Am I sill precluded from saying he's no true Scotsman?

The central premise of the Christian faith is that God himself became a man and willingly allowed himself to be tortured and put to death for the benefit of sinners who did not really deserve his compassion. Those who call themselves "Christians" are called to emulate Christ by being merciful, forgiving to others, and by putting others' needs above their own.

These people are diametrically opposed to the central tenets of their faith.

At some point, they really aren't Scotsmen anymore, regardless of what they call themselves.

[Celerity]

30. The pick and choose nature of the justifications for one expression of a religion to be favoured

over another inherently shows the fragility and logical faultiness of the claims to a 'true' form of said religion.

The central premise of the Christian faith is that God himself became a man and willingly allowed himself to be tortured and put to death for the benefit of sinners who did not really deserve his compassion.

Just in that statement alone there are positings that have have been under theological debate for 2 millennia, often with the most deadly of outcomes.

allowed himself to be tortured and put to death for the benefit of sinners

I will let Patti Smith partially answer that with her opening lines here:

[TreasonousBastard]

8. I absolutely must stop these possibly age related fantasy trips...

involving small thermonuclear devices

[leftyladyfrommo]

15. I have those fantasies, too. Only mine are about snipers. nt

[Chille]

11. Omg

I’m speechless

[LeftInTX]

12. Hagee is a fat, sweaty pig

[spanone]

16. ...and Jesus wept.

[Vinca]

17. Makes you wish for a giant lightning bolt.

[Hortensis]

18. Bizarre! Obedient, "polite" "church clothed" political hate speech.

Presume the the tone would change if it were a political rally or car race.

I've never known how many of the people routinely saying things like "the F word" for "fuck" allowed themselves to be aware of the hypocrisy, but I've always assumed it'd be frowned on in church anyway. For those who've had very little to do with conservative society, especially religious, use of obscene language tends to be, was, a serious sin and carried a strong social taboo. Saying "fuck" instead of "the F word" caused people to be ostracized as unfit to associate with.

Don't know how that's holding up now in tRumpworld with a leader spewing obscenities and where "Fuck Joe Biden" is chanted across the nation.

[panader0]

20. At the grocery yesterday I saw a decal on the back of a pick-up truck's window.

It said "Fuck Biden". The "Fuck" part was written with AR15s made into letters. The decal was
made by Remington Arms.

[Hortensis]

21. Sounds about right. "RemArms" is moving to GA. I couldn't see

that the new owner is that type, but if there's a market for these "ancillary products"?

[Ilsa]

22. Lots of people not clapping.

They are either confused, don't know what it means, know and are unwilling to participate during a service, or are offended.

I thought Hagee died a few years ago from his hate.

[Hortensis]

23. I was looking at that and also wondering how many

would end up going along and how many would decide not to return.

[Liberal In Texas]

26. The ones I saw weren't clapping because they were holding cell phones. n/t