"Inexcusable": Manchin leads charge against Biden's pro-union electric vehicle tax credit

[CousinIT]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/inexcusable-manchin-leads-charge-against-bidens-pro-union-electric-vehicle-tax-credit/ar-AAQNUYi?ocid=st

. . . Advocates for both workers' rights and climate policy are condemning Sen. Joe Manchin's latest statements opposing provisions in the Build Back Better Act, the $1.75 trillion social spending and climate action package that has already been substantially weakened due largely to the right-wing Democrat's objections to numerous anti-poverty and environmental measures.

Manchin's most recent opposition is to tax incentives for electric vehicles made by American workers who are represented by unions.

At an event last week with officials from Toyota, whose plant workers have no union representation, the senator told Automotive News that incentivizing the purchase of electric vehicles from the only three auto companies with unions — the U.S. based Ford, General Motors, and Chrysler — would be "un-American" and "wrong."

"We shouldn't use everyone's tax dollars to pick winners and losers," Manchin told the outlet at the event, where Toyota announced it would be investing $240 million in a non-union West Virginia plant to produce hybrid vehicles.

Toyota and other foreign-run auto companies have been lobbying against the provision, while United Auto Workers (UAW) has expressed support. If passed as it's written now, the Build Back Better Act would provide purchasers of electric vehicles with a maximum tax credit of $7,500, and would add a $4,500 credit on top of that starting if the vehicle is manufactured by unionized workers.

. . .

"Our climate is running out of time — yet Manchin wants to stand in the way of affordable and sustainable solutions," said the group. "Shame!"

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. Sounds like the perfect place for a bargaining chip.

[FBaggins]

2. Leads a "charge"?

It isn’t as though he had to convince anyone else

[Zorro]

3. Manchin would be all in

if the incentive was for coal-burning vehicles.

[lagomorph777]

9. Put in an incentive to pay coal and gas companies to go into the renewables business.

It seems so obvious to me; why is this not being discussed?

[Walleye]

4. He sure talks in Republican language

[JohnSJ]

5. The headline is intentionally misleading. I am not sure Manchin is against the tax credit.

Maybe he is against limiting the 4500 add on credit only to union shops.

It can be argued if you want to encourage maximum zero emission vehicles, the full tax credit should apply whether it is a union or non-union shop

I would argue even with the tax credit, for many these zero emission vehicles are still too expensive for most people.

Until an adequate infrastructure is in place, I suspect those who live in apartments also would not find an electric vehicle very feasible.

while I think we should encourage through incentives, trying to get people into zero emission vehicles, I hope we expand the mass transit system in the country, because I think that is where we could really get a lot of ICE cars off the roads

[Tomconroy]

6. Are tax incentives for EVs really a good idea? At this point EVs

are priced only for the well to do. By the time they are priced so everyone can afford them they won't need subsidies.
It's not like manufacturers aren't going to make them without tax incentives. Ford intends to go all electric.

[Celerity]

7. false premiss

At this point EVs are priced only for the well to do.

Not true, thus the rest is invalid as well.

[Tomconroy]

8. Oh wow! I had no idea!

[Celerity]

10. These would be under $30K after rebate and/or tax credit (and scales of economy will soon lower them

even more). The Nissan Leaf already is under $30K base price pre incentives.

these are the pre-incentive base prices

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133548_affordable-all-electric-the-5-lowest-priced-new-evs-in-the-us

2022 Nissan Leaf

Nissan Leaf
Price (including destination): $28,375
EPA range: 149 miles
Standard tech: DC fast-charging, 240V charging cable

Nissan has applied a price cut to the 2022 Leaf that makes it the lowest-priced EV on the market this year. The Leaf includes a 40-kwh battery pack good for 149 miles, although the Leaf Plus upgrades to a 62-kwh pack and maximum 226-mile range starting at $33,375. All Leafs have a single-motor setup with front-wheel drive and now come with DC fast-charging, which used to be omitted on base models.

2022 Mini Cooper SE

Mini Cooper SE
Price (including destination): $30,750
EPA range: 114 miles
Standard tech: Heated steering wheel, satellite radio

In a first drive of the Cooper SE last year, we found this front-wheel-drive hatchback to be a lot of fun to drive, with a go-kart-like quickness good for city driving, although it’s not tremendously useful or practical. The range from the 32.6-kwh battery pack isn’t enough to consider the Cooper SE as an only car, but with its brand of quirky this two-door hatchback could be a good pick for households with bigger SUVs or sedans staying in the stable.

2022 Chevrolet Bolt EV

Chevrolet Bolt EV
Price (including destination): $31,995
EPA range: 259 miles
Standard tech: Mobile 240V charge cord

The 2022 Chevrolet Bolt EV isn’t just improved throughout, with a refreshed interface and better seats and materials; GM dropped the price of the Bolt EV by about $5,000 across the lineup this year while keeping the range rating afforded by its 65-kwh battery pack. There’s a big asterisk to the Bolt EV right now, however: At the time of writing, it’s not on sale, as GM works with battery supplier LG on a recall fix that will remedy a propensity for vehicle fires. Also keep in mind that, with GM one of just two companies that's hit the 200,000-vehicle phaseout ceiling, the Bolt EV is the only one on this list that doesn't qualify for the federal EV tax credit.

2022 Mazda MX-30

Mazda MX-30
Price (including destination): $34,645
EPA range: 100 miles
Noteworthy features: Gas models for weekend trips, with a loaner program

Mazda’s products have for decades been strikingly different in design and engineering, and the 2022 MX-30 EV is no exception. The company’s first EV for the U.S. has a small 35.5-kwh battery pack and only a 100-mile range—and it’s only California-bound at first. But it shows it understands the front-wheel-drive EV’s sweet spot for commuters; with it there’s a MX-30 Elite Access Loaner Program, in which owners get 10 days of access to other Mazda models per year, for three years. And if that’s not enough quirky for you, a rotary range extended version is also on the way.

2022 Hyundai Kona Electric

Hyundai Kona Electric
Price (including destination): $35,185
EPA range: 258 miles
Standard tech: Wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto

Hyundai may have dropped the Ioniq Electric from the lineup for 2022, with the arrival of the eagerly anticipated Ioniq 5 SUV, but perhaps to make up for that it’s also dropped the price of the excellent 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric. The 64-kwh battery pack can be charged from 10 to 80 percent in just 47 minutes, according to Hyundai. And Hyundai’s infotainment interfaces are among the best in this bunch, with a quick, simple menu system and standard wireless support for Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.

[Tomconroy]

11. Complete waste of my tax money.

If they're so great people will buy them.
Sensible people buy used cars anyway.

[Celerity]

12. Nope not buying into your borderline RW talking points (nor your goalpost moving)

It absolutely is NOT a waste of taxpayer money for the government to aid and help bring forth a more rapid transition from the climate-killing internal combustion engine to a far better (granted not perfect) EV model of road transportation. We are in a global climate crisis with extinction event potentialities down the road.

now as to your goal post moving

you said

If they're so great people will buy them.

Yet, you just claimed they were priced for the well-off only (which I refuted but let's roll with your positing)

well, incentives help lower the cost and expand the potential buyer base

Sensible people buy used cars anyway.

Ridiculous. Hundreds of millions of 'sensible' people have purchased new cars globally.

Following your logic, the American automotive industry will soon be on life support, then will flatline.

[jimfields33]

13. You believe a car over 30 grand is affordable?

I certainly don’t. My last Toyota cost 18K brand new. I get the most basic car possible with no bells and whistles. I think 30K for a car is outrageous.

[Celerity]

14. Strawman. You do realise that we are discussing giving a tax credit of up to $7,500 per vehicle

and a $4,500 credit on top of that if the vehicle is manufactured by unionized workers?

ALL of those cars I listed would be WELL under $30K, with the Leaf, IF a buyer qualified for max credit, costing the purchaser under $20K.

It is so sad to see people now come out out of the woodwork and argue for further massive gutting of Biden's climate change agenda. Almost all of it was already ripped out of the BIF, and now you want to put massive components of the remaining items in the BBB Act to the sword as well.

I think 30K for a car is outrageous.

Well, besides the hyperbole, you are condemning the American car industry to a near certain death. I am not saying that the price gouging going on atm is fair or a good thing, but the cost of new US cars is FAR above your 'outrageous' level.

Good luck trying to get people to stick to sub $20K new cars.


Average New-Car Price Tops $45,000, an All-Time High

A Consumer Reports analysis helps car shoppers find the best deals amid record prices

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-pricing-negotiation/average-new-car-price-all-time-high-a4060089312/

For the first time ever, the average price of a new car has edged past $45,000, according to a new report from Kelley Blue Book and data from TrueCar, a CR partner that provides market analysis and an online marketplace for cars. Buying a car—just about any car—has been difficult for months now, and new data shows that new cars, like used ones, are costing consumers more than ever. Blame it all on the pandemic, and the resulting global semiconductor shortage that has hobbled automakers’ ability to crank out new cars, crimping supply, pushing up prices and limiting availability.

“We are seeing new transaction prices hit all-time highs,” says Nick Woolard, an analyst with TrueCar. “In September, we saw the average transaction price increase 7.7 percent over a year earlier.”

Woolard says that new-car inventory at dealerships is generally pretty thin right now. “You see dealers parking their vehicles sideways to make it look like they have more vehicles on the lot,” he says, adding that even a modest increase in the availability of new cars may lead to some relief in pricing.

Over several years, a variety of factors has contributed to pushing up the average new-car price. For one thing, consumer tastes have gravitated toward more expensive truck and SUV models. And the recent scarcity of all models has led to more extreme price increases among traditionally more affordable models.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-pricing-negotiation/average-new-car-price-all-time-high-a4060089312/

[BlueJac]

15. Manchin only cares about money in his pocket.

[DFW]

16. I know something that might change Machin's mind

If someone would only tell him that cars run on oil products, and not coal..............

[Act_of_Reparation]

17. Pretty sure Manchin isn't picky about who he'll take money from.

[Wounded Bear]

18. He owns a coal company. No doubt he's anti-union...

Not to mention, he keeps fishing for reasons to scotch the deal.

[mopinko]

19. fine. apply davis-bacon.

i suppose it's pretty much a dead letter these days. but that's how they get federal contractors to use union labor- make them pay the same wages whether they have a union or not.
to the best of my knowledge, we dont usually require union labor for fed spending.

[bigtree]

20. still hauling that coal down the mountain

...by 'coal' I mean bullshit, of course.

[BGBD]

21. It has nothing to do with climate

And everything to do with Toyota and the huge hybrid vehicle plant in WV. It's non-union and right now would be disadvantaged by the tax credit, so they want to kill it.

This is what every senator does for major companies in their states.