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I didn't know why Oklahoma had a panhandle. Now I do. (Original Post) tenderfoot Nov 2021 OP
The things I learn on DU..... OAITW r.2.0 Nov 2021 #1
I go right to the replies. Smart people on DU. Pepsidog Nov 2021 #9
Before LeftInTX Nov 2021 #2
Awesome map. 1/2 of the USA is well baked by 1850. The Western part, STBD OAITW r.2.0 Nov 2021 #5
Seward's folly sure paid off! Marcuse Nov 2021 #16
Maine dude...had his shit together, nation building wise....... OAITW r.2.0 Nov 2021 #18
Cool. I don't recall seeing that map about TX before. Hortensis Nov 2021 #30
I have no idea. I know the north point was the northern limit of "New Spain" or Mexico at one time LeftInTX Nov 2021 #33
Texas was forced to sell alot of the New Mexico land because they were broke..LOL LeftInTX Nov 2021 #35
Interesting. Texas hatred goes way back, like most southern states. Hoyt Nov 2021 #3
Kind of a pinpoint view isn't it? Or was hate in fact THE formative Hortensis Nov 2021 #31
Prior to the Civil War, cotton was mostly east of the Missippi and west in Louisiana LeftInTX Nov 2021 #36
Good history. Apparently a lot of cotton growers Hortensis Nov 2021 #39
Wow. I had no idea. DURHAM D Nov 2021 #4
This will be CRT theory. Forever forbidden in Republican State Mindthink. OAITW r.2.0 Nov 2021 #7
Oh wait... there's more tenderfoot Nov 2021 #6
If you saw Tom Hanks' movie "News of the World" FakeNoose Nov 2021 #12
Sort of like this year: NameAlreadyTaken Nov 2021 #28
Growing up, I spent a couple weeks a year in Woodward, OK at my aunt and uncles... VarryOn Nov 2021 #8
Good place for a windmill... SergeStorms Nov 2021 #11
I live in Oklahoma. The last two days have been so windy that I feel like I'm going to blow over. Tess49 Nov 2021 #17
Combo Wind/Solar. OAITW r.2.0 Nov 2021 #19
And I always thought it was because Kansas didn't want to get Texas cooties gratuitous Nov 2021 #10
Also that. nt eppur_se_muova Nov 2021 #14
And who could blame them? ShazzieB Nov 2021 #20
And this is the history that must-not-be-spoken. I think teaching sinkingfeeling Nov 2021 #13
If TEXASS didn't have oil , wouldn't be worth a plug nickel ! monkeyman1 Nov 2021 #15
Before oil, they had cotton, cattle, and citrus orchards. Klaralven Nov 2021 #24
great series produced by The History Channel CatWoman Nov 2021 #21
Love that series! nt Maru Kitteh Nov 2021 #41
Too bad really, This country would be better off without TX PortTack Nov 2021 #22
Sorry, but fuck off TxGuitar Nov 2021 #29
That's not true! Texasgal Nov 2021 #32
Why does Florida have a panhandle then? iscooterliberally Nov 2021 #23
Take your pick Mississippi or Alabama..LOL LeftInTX Nov 2021 #34
From Alabama to Wyoming, this is how each state got its shape Klaralven Nov 2021 #25
The main reason for the Texas Revolution was slavery... Wounded Bear Nov 2021 #26
Slavery was abolished in Texas in 1830 LeftInTX Nov 2021 #37
Local violence and uprisings continued for another forty years in some counties in Texas. pecosbob Nov 2021 #27
US should had told Texas they would agree to buy that section Texas only LiberalFighter Nov 2021 #38
100% off topic... anyone ever been to Amarillo?? The "reddest" large-ish city I've ever seen. WarGamer Nov 2021 #40
We stayed there one night on our way to Colorado! LeftInTX Nov 2021 #42

LeftInTX

(34,545 posts)
2. Before
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 12:05 AM
Nov 2021


BTW, my county used to be the largest county in the country. I'm in San Antonio and Bexar County went all the way up where Colorado is! Guess it shows how few people lived in Texas!

Shortly after, it was all subdivided and by the time of the Civil War, the counties were almost like they were now

OAITW r.2.0

(32,331 posts)
5. Awesome map. 1/2 of the USA is well baked by 1850. The Western part, STBD
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 12:10 AM
Nov 2021

Thanks for posting. 2 things I never knew that I learned at DU today. For a 68 year old, that is a great thng.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
30. Cool. I don't recall seeing that map about TX before.
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 05:37 PM
Nov 2021

Bexar county would have been larger than a lot of countries. West border over on the Rio Grande, Arkansas River across the top of the NW corner? Do you know why they tried for that skinny finger pointing north? Up the west side of the Rockies? Were they trying to get to the Snake River and X, or ?

LeftInTX

(34,545 posts)
33. I have no idea. I know the north point was the northern limit of "New Spain" or Mexico at one time
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 06:41 PM
Nov 2021

Between 1836 and 1850, I have no idea exactly what happened.

Texas started out small in 1836.


Another, probably easier to comprehend..says disputed territory




It must have somehow acquired land from New Mexico and a small part of land from California. Maybe it was easy land grab??

It became a state in 1845 and the border was moved further south after the Mexican-American War.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
31. Kind of a pinpoint view isn't it? Or was hate in fact THE formative
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 05:47 PM
Nov 2021

drive in states where slave labor was once used? The westward movement of cotton happened because hating had become less satisfying east of the Missisippi? Maybe white people discovered their hate burned hotter where the rain didn't keep damping it and started flocking there?

LeftInTX

(34,545 posts)
36. Prior to the Civil War, cotton was mostly east of the Missippi and west in Louisiana
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 07:03 PM
Nov 2021

Although Texas was a slave state that produced cotton, I don't think it was as cheap to ship from Texas as it was to ship it from New Orleans.

Cotton moved west after the civil war, but it had to do with land parcels and machinery. Today AZ, NW, and West Texas (not East Texas) lead the nation in cotton production. The western states production is a 20th Century thing. I don't think they even grow cotton in East Texas anymore.

I read an article about cotton production a few months ago. Pima Cotton is an Arizona cotton.



https://mappinghistory.uoregon.edu/english/US/US18-01.html

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
39. Good history. Apparently a lot of cotton growers
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 08:45 PM
Nov 2021

also wore out their soil and would pull up stakes and move to undeveloped land farther west, using slave labor of course to make this possible.

Your cotton map illustrates that, before modern irrigation made farming in the arid west possible, just about mid Texas was where annual rainfall finally became too low for agriculture.

Didn't know that about Pima cotton, but that reminds me that coffee experts have reportedly found a variety of wild coffee that can be grown with less water and tastes as good as Arabica. (!) Guessing climate change will have me switching to tea before it's widely available, though.



DURHAM D

(33,069 posts)
4. Wow. I had no idea.
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 12:09 AM
Nov 2021

I would be willing to bet that 90% of the citizens in Okie flats have no idea this is why they have a panhandle.

FakeNoose

(41,916 posts)
12. If you saw Tom Hanks' movie "News of the World"
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 12:40 AM
Nov 2021

... it was about this time in Texas history. It takes place about 10 years after Texas lost the Civil War and they still hadn't reconciled to the loss. A lot of lawless "rebel" soldiers ran around the countryside causing trouble because they couldn't accept that the North had won.

Tom Hanks' character had been a commander in the Confederate army, but once the war was lost he swore allegiance to the Union so he was OK. There was still a lot of racism and hatred towards native Americans, but somehow European immigrants were tolerated and welcomed.

I quite enjoyed that movie, and marveled that it was shot in Australia because modern-day Texas is way too built up. Also that was how Tom Hanks and his wife were infected with Covid, it happened in Australia last year.

NameAlreadyTaken

(2,304 posts)
28. Sort of like this year:
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 05:16 PM
Nov 2021

"A lot of lawless "rebel" soldiers ran around the countryside causing trouble because they couldn't accept that [someone else] had won."

 

VarryOn

(2,343 posts)
8. Growing up, I spent a couple weeks a year in Woodward, OK at my aunt and uncles...
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 12:12 AM
Nov 2021

Right near the OK panhandle. I've seriously given thought to retiring there. It's a beautiful area if you're OK with constant wind. And beautiful people, politics aside. Cost of living is low and not a lot of density. Wide open spaces.

SergeStorms

(20,676 posts)
11. Good place for a windmill...
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 12:39 AM
Nov 2021

to generate your own electricity and stay off the grid. If it's as windy as you say, you'd have no problem running an entire hacienda with a single generator, and probably not one that's too elaborate.

Tess49

(1,623 posts)
17. I live in Oklahoma. The last two days have been so windy that I feel like I'm going to blow over.
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 01:04 AM
Nov 2021

Windmills are everywhere around here. OG&E (electric company) lets us opt in for wind generated electricity. Pretty much everyone here, who ventures outside, walks around with wild, wind blown hair. I don't bother to carry a comb or brush with me. Pointless.

OAITW r.2.0

(32,331 posts)
19. Combo Wind/Solar.
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 01:10 AM
Nov 2021

There are some awesome wind tech that mounts horizontally on the roof peak, capturing rising heat induced airflow action.

 

monkeyman1

(5,109 posts)
15. If TEXASS didn't have oil , wouldn't be worth a plug nickel !
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 01:02 AM
Nov 2021

go eco & it won't ! everybody's saying that everything is bigger in that state ! I lived there for 8 yr's & hated every minute of it ! that was rick perry's reign of terrorism ! now they got the great miracle worker for governor !

TxGuitar

(4,350 posts)
29. Sorry, but fuck off
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 05:19 PM
Nov 2021

What pure state are you from? Do tell, we can no doubt find issues. You're playing exactly into the hands of the right wing. Are you doing it on purpose?

Texasgal

(17,241 posts)
32. That's not true!
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 06:02 PM
Nov 2021

We provide a shit load of resources to our country! From Tech to Tomatoes!

What a ridiculous comment!

iscooterliberally

(3,159 posts)
23. Why does Florida have a panhandle then?
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 01:41 PM
Nov 2021

Can we give it to Texas? They can take our governor too.

LeftInTX

(34,545 posts)
34. Take your pick Mississippi or Alabama..LOL
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 06:50 PM
Nov 2021

1764...I'm pretty sure West Florida eventually went to Mississippi and Alabama, so that those states could have ports.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
25. From Alabama to Wyoming, this is how each state got its shape
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 02:40 PM
Nov 2021
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2021/04/10/this-is-how-each-state-got-its-shape/43513185/

Oklahoma - The panhandle of Oklahoma -- one of its distinguishing characteristics -- was sold to the federal government in 1850 by Texas. Texas did this because as a slave state, it did not want its northern border to go above the 36 1/2 parallel, which would have violated the Missouri Compromise. Until 1890, when it was attached to Oklahoma Territory, the panhandle was a lawless land.

Texas - It got its distinctive shape after the Compromise of 1850, when it sold some of its northwestern land area in exchange for the U.S. taking on its massive debt load.

Wounded Bear

(64,424 posts)
26. The main reason for the Texas Revolution was slavery...
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 04:20 PM
Nov 2021

You know the whole Alamo fight and all? Yeah, that one.

The historic spin was that Santa Ana had taken over Mexico and assumed a dictatorship, and Texas rebelled for "freedom." Remember that old yarn? Yeah, that doesn't tell the whole story. The fact is that most of the immigrants that came to Texas were from the South and of course had slaves to run their farms/ranches. Mexico under Santa Ana looked like it would abolish slavery and Texans weren't really down with that development.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_Texas

The history of slavery in Texas began slowly at first during the first few phases in Texas' history. Texas was a colonial territory, then part of Mexico, later Republic in 1836, and U.S. state in 1845. The use of slavery expanded in the mid-nineteenth century as White American settlers, primarily from the Southeastern United States, crossed the Sabine River and brought slaves with them. Slavery was present in Spanish America and Mexico prior to the arrival of American settlers, but it was not highly developed, and the Spanish did not rely on it for labor during their years in Spanish Texas.

The issue of slavery became a source of contention between the Anglo-American settlers and Spanish governors. The governors feared the growth in the Anglo-American population in Texas, and for various reasons, by the early 19th century, they and their superiors in Mexico City disapproved of expanding slavery. In 1829 the Guerrero decree conditionally abolished slavery throughout Mexican territories. It was a decision that increased tensions with slave-holders among the Anglo-Americans.

After the Texas Revolution ended in 1836, the Constitution of the Republic of Texas made slavery legal. Sam Houston made illegal importation from Mexico a crime in 1836. The General Provisions of the Constitution forbade any slave owner from freeing his slaves without the consent of Congress and forbade Congress from making any law that restricted the slave trade or emancipated slaves.

LeftInTX

(34,545 posts)
37. Slavery was abolished in Texas in 1830
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 07:30 PM
Nov 2021

But it was loosely enforced and the Mexican program was a gradual "phase-out".
Texas had work-arounds, but it was becoming obvious that slavery would disappear under Mexico.

Santa Ana was a dictator.

My husband is a descendant of the founders of New Leon, Monterrey and Coahuilla. Those guys were horrible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_de_Montemayor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_del_Canto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_de_Carvajal_y_de_la_Cueva

During the Chichimeca War in 1550, Montemayor was often away from his third wife, Juana Porcallo de la Cerda, and her attention soon focused on Alberto del Canto, only a few years her elder. When Montemayor later confronted her about the ongoing affair, an argument ensued, he drew his sword and killed her. Montemayor fled into the wilderness to the north, but was eventually cleared of all charges (perhaps because a law at the time allowed a man to kill his unfaithful wife). His daughter with Juana Porcallo, Estefanía, later married Alberto del Canto and had three children with him, though the two separated in 1596. Estefanía moved back to Monterrey with her father, and her children took the last name of Montemayor. Montemayor never met his vow to kill Alberto del Canto.[7]

Nice guys..LOL All out to kill each other...LOL..

Spanish authorities said the Carvajal had a gang of "more than sixty soldiers" and to have made a fortune capturing and selling Indian slaves. They raided north along the Rio Grande, capturing hundreds of Indians whom they sold into slavery.[14] But the government was attempting to find a peaceful solution to the long-running and bloody Chichimeca War. Enslavement was one of the grievances of the Indians and a peaceful solution involved protecting the Indians against slavers. All along the frontier two successive Viceroys promoting peace with the Chichimecas cracked down on the slavers.[15]

Santa Ana was also European.

LiberalFighter

(53,544 posts)
38. US should had told Texas they would agree to buy that section Texas only
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 07:42 PM
Nov 2021

If northern border of Texas was lowered to southern border of Oklahoma and eastern border of New Mexico pushed further east.

WarGamer

(18,708 posts)
40. 100% off topic... anyone ever been to Amarillo?? The "reddest" large-ish city I've ever seen.
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 08:48 PM
Nov 2021

LeftInTX

(34,545 posts)
42. We stayed there one night on our way to Colorado!
Thu Nov 18, 2021, 10:05 PM
Nov 2021

We went to that crazy steak house. It was December 26th and the place was really crowded. My daughter in law likes the place. She went to school in Lubbock. https://www.bigtexan.com/


Amarillo is also a drive through town going east-west..I think it's on old Route 66. It's also on north south on the way to Colorado.
It does have Palo Duro Canyon which is really nice!

Lubbock is known for its wind and dust storms, so I assume Amarillo is the same. A friend in Lubbock said they have hard time growing trees there. When my son would visit his future wife up at Texas Tech, the lack of trees drove him nuts.

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