Office To Investigate UFOs Pushed In Bipartisan Proposal, 'This Is Urgent'

[triron]

https://kfiam640.iheart.com/content/2021-11-18-office-to-investigate-ufos-pushed-in-bipartisan-proposal-this-is-urgent/

'The amendment expands beyond a previous change made to the House version of the bill, as well as other previous public efforts to study UAPs and UFOs.

Gillibrand, who serves on the Armed Services and Intelligence committees, said she was urged to introduce the amendment due to “repeated reports over the last two or three years of these increased sightings by Navy pilots and Air Force pilots" and believes possible explanations on the sightings are so varied, which calls for a dedicated effort.

“You have a million questions that must be answered for a million reasons,” she said, citing “the entire spectrum of unidentified aerial phenomena.”

“You're talking about drone technology, you're talking about balloon technology, you're talking about other aerial phenomena, and then you're talking about the unknown,” she said. “Regardless of where you fall on the question of the unknown, you have to answer the rest of the questions. That’s why this is urgent. That’s why having no oversight or accountability up until now to me is unacceptable.” '

[elevator]

1. But, but, space is so big and little green men really?

Gillibrand makes many good points, as do the others quoted in the article. But, the sightings do not just go back ten years. And though there are numerous sightings by Navy and Air Force pilots, there are literally countless sightings going back nearly a hundred years. But, whatever motivation is finally needed to take the phenomenon seriously enough for critical, openminded research is welcome.

It would be refreshing if other replies to the OP would address the need for serious study, rather than arrogant debunking attempts by those who deny that something real has and is occurring. Please don't litter this discussion with comments about blurry photos, etc. It is very tiresome and advances nothing.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

3. Literally countless?

Are you sure it's that many?

[elevator]

66. Actually I shortchange the count, I ran out of fingers and toes.

How about a whole bunch, really big, supersize, ginormous quantity? Or how about "to numerous to count" just for you.

[triron]

4. 100 years is very consevative. Perhaps thousands of years (sightings documented in the Vedas and

in the Bible to name a couple sources-though there was much 'religious dogma' mixed up with what was being
observed)

[yellowdogintexas]

7. the religious aspect of ancient events is mythology

whether Norse, Greco/Roman, JudeoChristian or others.

My Old Testament professor defined the book of Genesis as the mythology of the Hebrews. He defined mythology as the attempt of a primitive people to explain things they cannot understand.

As it is passed down it becomes part of an organized religion, then dogma.

When the subject in class was biblical inerrancy, he always called it balderdash, poppycock, hogwash, gutter rubbish and claptrap. All in one phrase and not always in the same order. It was his trademark.

[oldsoftie]

42. Some think that Jesus was an alien. And think about it.....

The miracles performed, the resurrection; all could be explained by someone from another world with those abilities!

[LunaSea]

47. As far back as we've writing stuff down

Check out "Wonders in the Sky"

In Wonders in the Sky, respected researchers Jacques Vallee and Chris Aubeck examine more than 500 selected reports of sightings from biblical-age antiquity through the year 1879-the point at which the Industrial Revolution deeply changed the nature of human society, and the skies began to open to airplanes, dirigibles, rockets, and other opportunities for misinterpretation represented by military prototypes. Using vivid and engaging case studies, and more than seventy-five illustrations, they reveal that unidentified flying objects have had a major impact not only on popular culture but on our history, on our religion, and on the models of the world humanity has formed from deepest antiquity.

https://www.amazon.com/Wonders-Sky-Unexplained-Objects-Antiquity/dp/1585428205

Someone has posted it to Archive.org despite not yet being being public domain AFAIK.
https://archive.org/details/JacquesValleeChrisAubeckWondersInTheSkyUnexplainedAerialObjectsFromAntiquityToModernTimes

DUer Kid Berwyn posted some very interesting items (including about Vallee) in this thread from yesterday-

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216055444

[triron]

59. Thank you. Very informative (and constructive).

[elevator]

67. Many thousands if you throw in some cave paintings.

nm

[Duppers]

9. Yes 👍

[Volaris]

150. If Congress really is gonna do this,

I would very very much like them to invite and empanel some peeps qualified to, not just ask relevant oversight questions, but scientific and philosophical ones as well.

6 dems, 6 Repubs, 6 ACTUAL SCIENTISTS, 6 Faith Leaders.

In addition to the idea that SOMETHING is fucking with our airspace (and therefore, our national security), let's get some legit opinions on the scientific and religious reasons WHY the Little Green Men are bothering with us in the first place.

Let's see if we can get both Falwell AND Dawkins to agree that without evidence, congress might be 'chasing the dragon' here, so to speak.

[lagomorph777]

2. This is a national security concern. We can't have random crap going on in our airspace.

Whether human or otherwise, we need to know what's happening in our skies.

[elevator]

109. A sane perspective and appreciated, but you only posted once and left me to fend

off the uninformed skeptics and self professed possessors of the truth. Luckily I did some edibles and am enjoying the back and forth.

Maybe you chose wisely amigo.

[lagomorph777]

144. Pass the edibles, my friend.

Maybe I'll dive in on it today...

[Kid Berwyn]

145. Good pilots have died, vanished in UFO encounters.

Last edited Fri Nov 19, 2021, 08:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Four names to remember: Thomas Mantell, Felix Moncla, Robert Wilson and Frederick Valentich.

The first three were pilots, officers in the United States armed forces. The fourth name was a young Australian air cadet.

Each lost their life in association with UFOs. There likely are others. Here's a bit on them:

Thomas Mantell

Mantell Case (1948)

EXCERPT...

Mantell was an experienced pilot; his flight history consisted of 2,167 hours in the air, and he had been honored for his part in the Battle of Normandy during World War II.

On 7 January 1948, Godman Field at Fort Knox, Kentucky received a report from the Kentucky Highway Patrol of an unusual aerial object near Maysville, Kentucky. Reports of a westbound circular object, 250 feet (76 m) to 300 feet (91 m) in diameter, were received from Owensboro, Kentucky, and Irvington, Kentucky.

At about 1:45 p.m., Sgt Quinton Blackwell saw an object from his position in the control tower at Fort Knox. Two other witnesses in the tower also reported a white object in the distance. Base commander Colonel Guy Hix reported an object he described as "very white," and "about one fourth the size of the full moon ... Through binoculars it appeared to have a red border at the bottom ... It remained stationary, seemingly, for one and a half hours." Observers at Clinton County Army Air Field in Ohio described the object "as having the appearance of a flaming red cone trailing a gaseous green mist" and observed the object for around 35 minutes. Another observer at Lockbourne Army Air Field in Ohio noted, "Just before leaving it came to very near the ground, staying down for about ten seconds, then climbed at a very fast rate back to its original altitude, 10,000 feet, leveling off and disappearing into the overcast heading 120 degrees. Its speed was greater than 500 mph in level flight."

Four P-51 Mustangs of C Flight, 165th Fighter Squadron Kentucky Air National Guard already in the air—one piloted by Mantell—were told to approach the object. Blackwell was in radio communication with the pilots throughout the event.

One pilot's Mustang was low on fuel, and he quickly abandoned his efforts. Air Force Captain Edward J. Ruppelt (the first head of Project Blue Book) notes that there was some disagreement amongst the air traffic controllers as to Mantell's words as he communicated with the tower: some sources reported that Mantell had described an object "which) looks metallic and of tremendous size," but, according to Ruppelt in The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, others disputed whether or not Mantell actually said this.

The other two pilots accompanied Mantell in steep pursuit of the object. They later reported they saw an object, but described it as so small and indistinct they could not identify it. Mantell ignored suggestions that the pilots should level their altitude and try to more clearly see the object.

Only one of Mantell's companions, Lt. Albert Clemmons, had an oxygen mask, and his oxygen was in low supply. Clemmons and a Lt. Hammond called off their pursuit at 22,500 feet (6,900 m). Mantell continued to climb, however. According to the Air Force, once Mantell passed 25,000 feet (7,600 m) he supposedly blacked out from the lack of oxygen (hypoxia), and his plane began spiraling back towards the ground. A witness later reported Mantell's Mustang in a circling descent. His plane crashed at a farm south of Franklin, Kentucky, on the Tennessee-Kentucky state line.

Firemen later pulled Mantell's body from the Mustang's wreckage. His wristwatch had stopped at 3:18 p.m., the time of his crash. Meanwhile, by 3:50 p.m. the UFO was no longer visible to observers at Godman Field. The Mantell Incident was reported by newspapers around the nation, and received significant news media attention. A number of sensational rumors were also circulated about Mantell's crash. Among the rumors were claims that Mantell's fighter had been shot down by the UFO he was chasing, and that the Air Force covered up evidence proving this. Another rumor stated that Mantell's body was found riddled with strange holes. However, no evidence has ever surfaced to substantiate any of these claims. In 1956, Ruppelt wrote that the Mantell Crash was one of three "classic" UFO cases in 1948 that would help to define the UFO phenomenon in the public mind, and would help to convince Air Force intelligence specialists that UFOs were a "real", physical phenomenon (Ruppelt 30). The other two sightings were the Gorman Dogfight and the Chiles-Whitted UFO Encounter.

CONTINUED...

http://www.mufon.com/mantell-case---1948.html

Felix Moncla and Robert Wilson



USAF Radar operator stated he watched the aircraft approach the UFO; then saw the two blips merge into one return that quickly moved off the screen.

Marksville Weekly News

Avoyelles Parish has connections to a UFO mystery that goes back 49 years. Gordon Heath from Surrey, British Columbia was in Marksville recently to investigate the background of Lt. Felix E. Moncla who disappeared along with another crew member, Second Lt. Robert L. Wilson, over Lake Superior on Monday, November 23, 1953.

According to Heath, who is a UFO hobbyist, Moncla was on temporary assignment at Kinross Air Force Base in ...(sic. Michigan)... when he was sent to identify and unidentified craft over the Soo Locks, which is restricted airspace. Moncla, in an F-89C, pursued the craft for about 30 minutes flying at 30,000 feet over the middle of Lake Superior. He was flying about 500 mph when he was instructed by ground radar to descend to 7,000 feet.

When the unidentified craft was finally on radar it was noted that the two radar images, the UFO and the Air Force jet, were very close and at some point they intersected but only one remained. Heath says that the unidentified craft flew north and disappeared from radar.

Lt. Moncla's jet mysteriously disappeared without a trace.

http://www.nuforc.org/mancla.html


No remains of the crew or wreckage of the F-89C have been found.

Frederick Valentich

His late father holds the missing flyer's picture:

Delta Sierra Juliet? Do you read?

Boats and aircraft have found no trace of the 20-year old Australian pilot who disappeared with his plane on Saturday night after radioing that he was being chased by a UFO. Frederick Valentich was on a 125 mile training flight in his single engine Cessna 182 along the coast of Bass Strait when he told air traffic controllers in Melbourne that he was being buzzed by a UFO with 4 bright lights about 1000 feet above him.

Controllers said his last message was taped and was: "It's approaching from due east towards me. It seems to be playing some sort of game... flying at a speed I can't estimate. It's not an aircraft. It's...It is flying past. It is a long shape. I cannot identify more than that. It's coming for me right now." A minute later: "It seems to be stationary. I'm also orbiting and the thing is orbiting on top of me also. It has a green light and a sort of metallic light on the outside." Valentich then radioed that his engine was running roughly. His last words were: "It is not an aircraft."

The Australian Air Force said it had received 11 reports from people along the coast who said they saw UFOs on Saturday night, but the Transport Department was skeptical. Ken Williams, a spokesman for the department, said, "It's funny all these people ringing up with UFO reports well after Valentich's disappearance. It seems people often decide after the event, they too had seen strange lights. But although we can't take them too seriously, we can never discourgae such reports when investigating a plane's disappearance."

SNIP...

ACTUAL TRANSCRIPTION OF MELBOURNE FLIGHT SERVICE

The transcript portion of the communication between Valentich and Melbourne Flight Service as released by the Australian Department of Transport follows: (FS - Flight Service, DSJ - Frederick Valentich aircraft designation).

1906:14 DSJ Melbourne, this is Delta Sierra Juliet. Is there any known traffic below five thousand?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, no known traffic.

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, I am, seems to be a large aircraft below five thousand.

1906:44 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, What type of aircraft is it?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, I cannot affirm, it is four bright, it seems to me like landing lights.

1907 FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1907:31 DSJ Melbourne, this is Delta Sierra Juliet, the aircraft has just passed over me at least a thousand feet above.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, and it is a large aircraft, confirmed?

DSJ Er-unknown, due to the speed it's travelling, is there any air force aircraft in the vicinity?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, no known aircraft in the vicinity.

1908:18 DSJ Melbourne, it's approaching now from due east towards me.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1908:41 DSJ (open microphone for two seconds.)

1908:48 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, it seems to me that he's playing some sort of game, he's flying over me two, three times at speeds I could not identify.

1909 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, what is your actual level?

DSJ My level is four and a half thousand, four five zero zero.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, and you confirm you cannot identify the aircraft?

DSJ Affirmative.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, stand by.

1909:27 DSJ Melbourne, Delta Sierra Juliet, it's not an aircraft it is (open microphone for two seconds).

1909:42 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, can you describe the -er- aircraft?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, as it's flying past it's a long shape (open microphone for three seconds) cannot identify more than it has such speed (open microphone for three seconds). It's before me right now Melbourne.

1910 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger and how large would the - er - object be?

1910:19 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, Melbourne, it seems like it's stationary. What I'm doing right now is orbiting and the thing is just orbiting on top of me also. It's got a green light and sort of metallic like, it's all shiny on the outside.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1910:46 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet (open microphone for three seconds) It's just vanished.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1911 DSJ Melbourne, would you know what kind of aircraft I've got? Is it a military aircraft?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, Confirm the - er ~ aircraft just vanished.

DSJ Say again.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, is the aircraft still with you?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet; it's (open microphone for two seconds) now approaching from the south-west.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1911:50 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, the engine is rough-idling. I've got it set at twenty three twenty-four and the thing is coughing.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, what are your intentions?

DSJ My intentions are - ah - to go to King Island - ah - Melbourne. That strange aircraft is hovering on top of me again (open microphone for two seconds). It is hovering and it's not an aircraft.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1912:28 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet. Melbourne (open microphone for seventeen seconds).

SOURCE: http://www.ufocasebook.com/australianpilot.html

So that’s part of the reason why the Pentagon considers UFOs “serious business.”

ETA: fixed copy n paste error.

[lagomorph777]

151. I doubt their families laugh at UFO jokes!

Thanks for sharing.

[hurple]

5. The big problem is too many people hear "UFO"

And immediately think "space monsters"

But, the phrase just means "unidentified flying object."

We just need a better to identify most of these. Apparently the flash cards with silhouettes isn't cutting it anymore.

[FSogol]

19. It's just Swamp Gas.

[hurple]

25. Ball lightning

Just ask Ozzy Osbourne.

[roamer65]

40. The Planet Venus.

[hurple]

27. Read almost every other reply to the OP

To see exactly what I mean.

There are legislate security concerns about UFOs. Very few of those concerns have any connection to "space monsters" at all.

But, that is where 99% of people's minds go when that phrase is used.

"UFO" does not mean "alien spacecraft"

[Orrex]

41. That ship has sailed

“UFO” is inextricably linked with “alien space monsters” in the popular consciousness and in pop culture in general, and it’s pointless to pretend otherwise. It’s like when so-called “left libertarians” complain that people identify them with Libertarians. Whatever the term might once have meant, it now means “petulant asshole who wants to be congratulated for dodging taxes.”

Tell you what: call 911 to report a UFO, using that term. Will they think “this person thinks that they witnessed an anomalous aerial phenomenon that defies simple explanation,” or will they think “this person thinks that they saw an alien spaceship?”

[elevator]

68. Who knows what a 911 operator thinks, and who cares?

I assume if the caller describes lights in the sky, moving strangely the responder will probably think, imo, that caller saw lights in the sky moving strangely. If UFO was mentioned I still doubt that operator is conjuring up an invasion by space monsters. I would guess most serious minded people, when they hear UFO have various thoughts about it. And I imagine that space monsters is not foremost if even considered. A better way to frame what most openminded people might think when they hear about a flying craft displaying highly unusual maneuvers is Hmm...that could be a an intelligently controlled vehicle.

Your blathering about popular thought and culture is a reference to the same segment of the population that is enthralled with the Kardashians, reality shows about dating, marriage, housewives, survival and god knows what.

Leave the serious consideration of the subject to discerning minds.

[Orrex]

124. You become less and less worth reading with every word

And you STILL can't resist making up bullshit viewpoints and assigning them to me, all while insulting me in a way that has frankly gotten posts of mine hidden in the past.

You are unworthy of further attention.

[elevator]

131. Did you or did you not opine about pop culture, space monsters etc?

I never said anything about bs viewpoints, you brought up the entire load of crap. If the foo shits wear it.

[oldsoftie]

43. Yes. We NEED to know if the Russians or Chinese have developed something.

And if our intel has totally failed us

[ForgedCrank]

136. If the Russians or Chinese had developed

the things we have been seeing, we wouldn't be here right now.

[SWBTATTReg]

152. I agree...they (Russians/Chinese) I don't think would have hesitated in using these

obviously highly advanced, unknown origin, of these craft to further their agendas? You already see the Russians under Putin try everything in his toolbox to weaken the American spirit, to harm American interests seemingly in anyway he can.

[LunaSea]

50. Which is one of the best reasons the DoD

Last edited Thu Nov 18, 2021, 03:57 PM - Edit history (1)

dropped the acronym and uses several different ones lately.
UAP, AAP, etc.

[llashram]

6. drones

just seem invasively dangerous to privacy, airlines, all flying conveyances...

[colorado_ufo]

36. It is interesting to Google some of these military sightings.

They are recorded at speeds impossible for drones.

[llashram]

39. Oh I do believe

"We are not alone" in this universe...

[triron]

61. It would be incredibly presumptive to think otherwise.

[elevator]

69. And many years before drones were even Sci-Fi.

Don't be lulled by those who want to frame this phenomenon as a recent occurrence.

[Aviation Pro]

8. There are many more civil flights operating around the world

I wonder why we don't hear from those flight crews about encounters with UFOs?

[Duppers]

12. They are reported without follow-ups?

My guess.

(I've seen one, along with others at the time.)

[colorado_ufo]

35. They do report but

sometimes such information is kept under "state secrets."

[LunaSea]

65. We do

But apparently reporting such things can be detrimental to ones career.
To say nothing of the sort of crap the Navy "tic-tac" pilots endured from their fellow pilots after their encounter.

You should check out some posts in this thread-
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216055444

The 1957 BOAC report and the one by Kelly Johnson (of Skunkworks fame) detailed there may be of interest.

The Johnson story may not have been posted in that thread, but you can find it here-
http://www.nicap.org/reports/lockufoinc.htm

[elevator]

70. Really? Research that a bit. There are dozens and dozens and dozens of reports.

From all parts of the of the globe. Again, for many, many years..

[hunter]

97. Their imaging software isn't so buggy?

[Harker]

10. Seventy years ago...

[usaf-vet]

45. This film IMO is just as timely in 2021 as it was in 1951. It brings a simple message STOP.....

...... all aggression on Earth as it might spread to other planets.

The Day the Earth Stood Still 1951

The message is punctuated by an unearthly power. Klaatu's stops all-time worldwide for 30 minutes. And warns either, earthlings solve all of their aggression and nuclear weapon development OR Klaatu's "federation of peaceful planets" WILL turn the earth into a burnt-out cinder.

Klaatu's parting speech.

[Harker]

53. Yep. 1951 was a big year for SF cinema.

And the theramin.

There's a recent bit of news about Russia creating more dangerous space junk from destroying a satellite.

Gort should be making another trip here before too long.

[elevator]

72. Klatu, barrada, nikto...I thought it was something about cigarettes.

Maybe the all-time best sf movie. Along with " The Thing".

[Harker]

75. Great double feature.

I have a soft spot for the old chillers.

Heh. "Klaatu needs nicotine!"

[elevator]

77. For Chiller sf you can't beat the 1959 "Invasion of the Bodysnatchers"

it could be fucking anyone. I always looked, with trepidation, under my bed and in the closet (a gay alien) after seeing it.
It was supposedly a metaphor for communism.

[Harker]

80. Oh, yeah.

I was born in '59, and as a tot would beg to be allowed to stay up for The Outer Limits, then run and hide when The Control Voice started messing with the picture.

Oddly enough, I had an aunt who had Jack Finney as a neighbor.

[elevator]

91. Can you bend your little finger sir?

If not, just trust I'm on your side.

[Harker]

114. The sixth finger?

[electric_blue68]

101. The (original) Outer Limits! ...

I'm 6 yrs old older than you, and that show scared the bejeeeze out of me! 😄
Yet I still "subjected" myself to it! Sometimes they had less scary, or more optimistic episodes or endings.

[Harker]

113. I've been thinking about borrowing them via interlibrary loan.

This ices it.

They ran the gamut, as you said. Seems there was always a moral in the summation.

[electric_blue68]

116. Oh, have "Fun" if you do! ( 😄 )...

Some would still scare me silly! Because I can still remember them. Eeeeeeks!

Yeah, you are right about a moral at the end of every episodes.

Listen to the soundtrack in "The Inheritors" there's such a loving melody at several points.
(while what was done is probably not acceptable today, if then - depending on how they did it, while the premise is improbable itself). Still a wonderful story!

I have to go to finish reading IMDB's synopsises on it. 👍


Otherwise, excuse me while I go hide under the covers!
😄

[Harker]

123. I appreciate it!

I still remember a bunch of episodes, too.

[usaf-vet]

125. Agreed, The thing ended up being a famous TV cowboy if memory serves me right.

James Arness

[triron]

71. One of the best SciFis I've ever seen.

[LunaSea]

122. Great films, add 2016s "Arrival" to your list

One of those rare, really good SF films that provokes your imagination in the same way
the better novels do.

[triron]

128. "Contact" is another one.

[Elessar Zappa]

11. I think something strange is going on.

[AllaN01Bear]

13. us airforce pilot brought aboard the uss enterprise .

pilot says : " i have never belived in little green men". spock counters with ," nor have i." secene from tommrow is yesterday.

[KS Toronado]

14. " This is Urgent " my @ss

What's really urgent is the stalled voting rights bill. Passing it and killing gerrymandering once & for all
will ensure Rs will have difficulty ever taking control again. Then you can go look for ET.

[LeftInTX]

46. Yep...when you can't accomplish anything worth while..go after UFOs!

[elevator]

73. Agree about voting rights, but we can tackle more than one issue at a time.

And don't give me any bs about congress or the gov. can't do one thing right etc.
Congress needs to understand that this is a very important issue for our country and the world and we should take appropriate, well-funded action by a distinguished mix of scientists and research firms.

[Archae]

15. And after they are done with this...

The investigations of the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny will take up media attention.

[larwdem]

17. don't forget

don't forget Big Foot

[Polybius]

32. I see a skeptic

Can't hurt to investigate though.

[Archae]

49. "Investigate" what?

There's been as many investigations, some more crays than others, as there has been of Bill and Hillary Clinton.
More than likely more.

What actual evidence was found?

Nothing.

Anecdotes are not evidence.

Photographs, movies and videos that are misidentified objects (like aircraft,) or flat-out fakes.

How about an actual flying saucer? Nope, none found.

No, UFO's are a Cold War/Space Age fairy tale.
Nothing more.

[Polybius]

51. Whatever these things in the sky are

They are far beyond what we can do in terms of speed/manipulation. Could be super-advanced drones from another country or even a private engineer.

And how do you know that no evidence has been found? Maybe they're not telling us. Or maybe there is none. I can't say either way.

[triron]

62. Bologna, there has been evidence, much of it. Geesh.

[nattyice]

55. You should watch Paranormal Caught on Camera on Discovery+

[Archae]

56. I watched about a half hour of it once.

I said "This is absolute bullshit" and changed the channel.

To a program about space aliens that was more credible.

"Star Wars."

[KS Toronado]

63. Paranormal Caught on Camera

Comes out of the same special effects studio that done Star Wars. IMO

[elevator]

78. You done made a point there pardner.

IMO

[elevator]

76. Of the four main government investigations into UFOs over the years

three have been shown to have reached a pre-ordained conclusion regarding ufos and the fourth, Project Blue Book, did field work, that was not investigated further. After finding a high likelihood that the reports were unexplainable in a about 10% of the cases they investigated no follow-up was ever done.

The Condon Report
Project Grudge
The Robertson Panel

Weed 'em and reap

[elevator]

74. Who cares about the fn media? Look what they cover now. Just do serious

research by serious people. If something earth-shattering happens, which this could be, the media will report it and hopefully be truthful, because some players will still want it covered up as much as possible. Richard Dolan and others have postulated that a few aero-space and other research firms have received favored
government bids to examine "theoretical technologies". Some well-respected people, have hinted strongly, that some have been given recovered technolgy from craft retrievals. If, and that's a good sized if, it's true, that would lead to some humongous court cases and scandal for some powerful people in government and Corporations.

[leftstreet]

16. Oh FFS. What's this gonna cost us?

And which private contractors are salivating over it?

Shouldn't the massive military budget already include this shit?

[elevator]

79. The "black budget" already has for years and probably many billions of dollars.

What would you expect?
See my post regarding "special project" government funded programs and corporations.

[jalan48]

18. UFO's offer a gold mine to politicians who want the public's focus elsewhere (what climate change?)

and to the Defense Industry which will be able to charge more for their protection services. The sky's the limit.

[packman]

20. Come on - Why in the hell would any advanced, intelligent civilization want to make contact

with such a primitive race of slightly advanced apes who still vote Republican and had Trump as their leader in one of the most powerful nations on that blue planet?

[PatSeg]

26. Well to be fair, they don't appear to be landing

Perhaps just doing a flyover to take a peek and then moving on. "Nope, they're not ready yet. We'll try back later."

[elevator]

82. LOL. Maybe nobody saw them land in say remote Siberia, Alaska, just about

any remote mountain range, under the sea or your backyard while you were sleeping.

They are not filing FAA flight plans amigo.

[PatSeg]

83. This is true, though they've gotten the attention

of Air Traffic Controllers and pilots. I've heard some really fascinating recordings of pilots talking to Air Traffic Controllers. They are fairly matter-of-fact and professional, but clearly surprised and confused. I wish I could find them again.

[elevator]

111. He specifically referred to landings. So I addressed it. Your comments are factual

and appreciated.

[The Magistrate]

30. A Personal Favorite, Sir

[elevator]

84. Seems a lot of feet have gone in a lot of mouths when discounting evidence

over many years and many subjects. All good evidence is not physical, although there is purported to be some physical by various reports. Good evidence doesn't have to mean in possession of.

[hunter]

149. I'm going to add this to my list of favorite cartoons as well...

... along with "On the internet nobody knows you're a dog."



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet%2C_nobody_knows_you're_a_dog

[elevator]

81. Probably at some point to tell us we have royally fucked things up.

At least we can hope they do. Give us the secrets to an easy, secure, relaxed life and let us worry about important stuff like the best beer, the most attractive women and men, sports teams etc.

[ancianita]

21. THIS is what they pick to be bipartisan about? Sounds like a Big Fat "Look Over There!" strategy

to keep the electorate distracted from their criminality.

[Probatim]

31. A CT loonies on both sides of the aisle can get behind. n/t

[ancianita]

52. You know we don't have loonies on our side of the aisle, right? You know that, right?

Their proven loonies want to attract our pro-science people to the "believe" side, and then work on them.

But if they can't really "identify" the "unidentified," we still have no loonies. I wouldn't be surprised if that work doesn't work more in our pro-science favor, and bring some of their folks over to reality.

But if their proven loonies can't be drawn to reality, I say the worst we can have on our side is alleged loonies.

[elevator]

89. If this is tongue in cheek, or sarcasm then you got me.

If not, seriously what are you saying? Cause it was jumbled for me and I didn't really smell your drift as Ewell Brookins would say.

[ancianita]

94. I'm saying that Republicans are full of loonies and we're not. If UFO's is the level of bipartisan

they can work at constructively, it's like taking a naughty teen by the hand and walking slowly with them toward the crack house exit.

No, the story of UFO's is not some hidden knowledge that we should pursue together. But hey, if they think they're distracting us, or fooling us, or whatever leads them to hold out that football again, I'm laughing at how stupid they think our party is.

[elevator]

99. I'll admit your analogy has me adrift, but yes the truth about ufos is some

Last edited Thu Nov 18, 2021, 09:10 PM - Edit history (1)

hidden knowledge. It is a fact that these craft are present. The knowledge of who, if anyone, built these craft and their purpose is hidden. And for our mutual benefit we need to discover and learn the answers voila... knowledge. And it should be pursued by serious people.

The narrowmindedness of some in our party is constricting growth.

[ancianita]

100. Pro UFO folk need to read some astrophysicists' knowledge of the cosmos. Then they'd realize that

UFO is 99% unknown and .09% flying and .01% object. That's not just my opinion, but that of space scientists who know what kinds of stuff fly through our atmosphere 24/7/365.

And yes, I'm aware that this Big Deal body of search has gone on for generations. I'm not going to discourage interest, but seriously, climate catastrophes are bearing down on us.

Maybe this would interest you? I learned from this astrophysicist why aliens don't exist.

[elevator]

102. Astro-physicists are a dime a dozen. I can quote many who give strong credence

to alien life and the possibility of FTL travel. If those two things are the case then visitation is a real debatable.

[triron]

105. I wouldn't call them 'a dime a dozen' but you're right I think about the lack of concensus.

Astrophysics is a tough academic discipline (I have an astrophysics degree).

[elevator]

106. It was just a figure of speech to make a point Doc. No offense intended.

So where do you stand on alien life and the possibility of FTL travel?

[triron]

127. Just kidding. FTL is theoretically possible according to what I understand about spacetime physics

and general relativity. I think a lot of misunderstanding is due to experimental evidence and observation (and theoretical predictions of special relativity). And our physics is still evolving (e.g. observations and theory of quantum mechanics, black holes, dark matter, science or lack thereof of consciousness).
I devoured literature in my younger years on anecdotal accounts of various types of encounters with UAPs and experiences involving nonhuman intelligence. I lean strongly toward the existence of alien life and especially advanced technologies.

I didn't take offense.

[triron]

103. There is no concensus among astrophysicists on this. One's opinion doesn't mean much.

Many scientists are skeptical because that's part of their scientific training.
But if experienced pilots are observing unexplainable (by our understanding) aerial phenomena, it is time to investigate.

[ancianita]

118. Right, and this one astrophysicist explains what astrophysicists agree on that they know and what

they don't know. He explains the field of astrophysics, what it's gotten done in the last centuries, how they did it, and how little it has learned and how the whole field, when they're not furiously working on their measurements and observations, are throwing their hands up on what's important to learn, build on, and what's not.

As a science it's not built on "consensus" unless they're putting collective effort to some hypothesis that will show results.

But what they do know is what this book is about. And one of the things they know is that we are alone.
No aliens. No beings that, even if they exist, don't communicate.

[elevator]

132. So there's no consensus, but you're speaking for all astro-physicists and what

they know. Which is that we are alone no aliens. So is there consensus or not.
Common sensus would tell us nobody astro or whatever knows the truth about other life forms.

[LunaSea]

117. Perhaps if you step away from the assumption

that what is being witnessed is little green men who've figured out how to fly vehicles across
impossible distances. That assumption does not seem to fit the data nor what we currently know about physics.

[ancianita]

119. Adorable. I'm laughing at that assumption.The universe and what we know of it is beyond our physics.

[elevator]

138. Please quote where i assumed the universe and what we know of it is beyond our

physics. Of course what we know about our universe is not beyond our present physics...it's how we've learned what we have to this point. Jesus, do I have to argue both sides to make it a lucid argument.

The just discovered "beauty quark" threatens to shatter some of our current theories about particle physics. And that is just one example of the fact that we cannot account for many observable phenomena in the universe at this point.

As our physics evolves and matures we will continue to find how much we do not know.

[elevator]

133. Where did I assume anything about little green men. Kinda sexist point of view.

If you did some research you'd discover that FTL travel would not involve "flying" as you so simplemindedly project it.

That's the point thanks. It doesn't fit our data or what we currently know about physics. It's about what some other civilization may know.

[LunaSea]

140. Not your assumption

I was responding to ancianitas post.
But the point I was trying to make is about the assumptions made when we apply terms like "vehicle" or "craft" implying
a conveyance to carry some lifeform from a distant place to here. Granted it's a perfectly normal assumption from a human perspective, but the possibility exists that it could be something else altogether.

Oh, and I think "flying" makes the point just as well as warping, bending or zero-pointing, you knob.

[ancianita]

143. Dude. Here is what you said to me:

if you step away from the assumption...(meaning you are claiming I am making "the assumption" which, no, I'm not next to)

(and then here's that assumption you think I have to "step away from":
that what is being witnessed is little green men who've figured out how to fly vehicles across
impossible distances. That assumption does not seem to fit the data nor what we currently know about physics.

What I am claiming is that I'm laughing that you thought I made that assumption. I also made the claim that I 'know' (as in learned recently) that we do not have the physics to explain massive gravity force, antimatter forces, etc., in the universe. Einstein's physics has limits, and quantum physics are somewhat useful. But no, we haven't the physics to understand the universe.

That's what Paul Sutter explains. I'm going with his expertise on this, seeing as how I have none.

But I do have priorities about human spending and effort.

[elevator]

88. What exactly is the conspiracy?

Who is perpetrating it? For what reason, or outcome?

[elevator]

85. I don't really care what the strategy is, if they get some important results.

And the electorate is already distracted by a rain of shit that they can barely see through.

[ancianita]

112. If they get some important results? Like stopping massive death by climate catastrophes? Oh wait.

You mean important in terms of identifying the unidentified. Okay.

I'm not feelin' this.

[elevator]

134. So identifying unknown objects buzzing airports, aircraft and nuclear facilities

is not very important. I'm feeling it is.

By the way, if we do discover some new way to generate energy by examining this issue it just might help avoid those massive death catastrophes. But, one would have to use a bit of forethought to realize that. Too bad you're not feeling it.

[ancianita]

142. Well, el, if it can't be captured, it can't be studied;

if it can't be studied, it can't be applied to world energy needs. We don't have any more time for the excited speculation that has resulted in absolutely nothing over generations. We just don't have the time. Nor should the military get the budget unless it produces something that merits further study.

[LunaSea]

115. So you think Harry Reid was hiding some criminality?

It was Reid who got the current DoD investigations underway.

[ancianita]

121. Let me edit for clarity.

Sounds like a Big Fat "Look Over There!" strategy to keep the electorate distracted from the Republicans' criminality.

Reid has nothing to do with today. You mistake me criticizing the Republicans' wanting to work with us on UFO's with criticism of Democrats. I criticize this topic as a focus for bipartisan work and say why.

If you think this is a good idea, say why.

[LunaSea]

126. Despite years of denials of any interest in the subject

our military is now reporting repeated interactions with objects seemingly under intelligent control
that appear to display attributes that are impossible to understand given what we know
about how the physical world works.

Former missile base commanders tell of interactions, intrusions and manipulation
of nuclear weapons systems that have gone on for decades within our borders and beyond.

These are fairly compelling reasons for further investigation, don't you think?

[elevator]

139. Exactly right. It is just recently that these incidents are being afforded just a

fraction of the public scrutiny and attention that they deserve.

It's laughable and sad how the tired ol strawmen of blurry photos, little green men, weather phenomenon etc. etc. are still being trotted out. There won't be enough eggs to cover the faces of those deserving of it in the near future.

[LunaSea]

141. Depends on who's bringing the eggs..

[elevator]

137. I already stated this research could prove beneficial for mankind.

It is important to fund it and do the work required, no matter who is involved.

[elevator]

135. I have no idea about Harry and his involvement with government contracts

Other than the 22 million dollar research program he helped provide funding for, which was the group Elizondo was working with.

[modrepub]

22. As Long As It Comes Out of The Defense Budget

They seem to have infinitely deep pockets.

When I was in college I had a discussion with an Astronomy professor. He had done some work on UFO sightings and noticed a correlation between the number of sightings and know astronomical events like meteor showers and such. Sightings always seemed to happen during these events. Has been the most logical explanation for this that I've heard of.

[elevator]

86. No doubt meteor showers and such have been called ufos. Common sense.

Sightings happen 24/7/365 around the world. Is there a celestial object, meteor, comet, planet, satellite fooling people every day? IDK, but eeehh. And many, many people report objects anywhere from next to, to hundreds of yards, or miles. Meteors etc, at basically ground level, are rarely reported .

[left-of-center2012]

23. In my humble opinion

People who mock UFOs are actually space aliens living among us.

[KG]

33. ssshhhhh.

[ancianita]

98. Mockmockmock...

[elevator]

104. Come in!

skepticism is doubtful.

[hunter]

146. We know how we got here and it wasn't in spaceships.

In my strange universe intelligent species who don't obliterate themselves make the leap to near-omnipotence rapidly, before they build any silly things like starships, which would be quite boring as they wouldn't go faster than light.

This big universe is very threatening to certain religious beliefs, in that aliens are more powerful than their gods.

A being like Q, who can pop out of nowhere to harass Jean-Luc Picard in a galaxy of 100-400 billion stars or more, makes humans seem very small and insignificant, which they are.

It's much more comfortable to believe humans are special enough that aliens in space ships are watching us.

The truth is harder. We each have to determine "the meaning of life" on our own, even as nearly omnipotent beings. This meaning cannot be found in science or religion, it's unique to each individual.

On a less philosophical note, funding for UFO studies is easily diverted to less savory pursuits. Suppose you are looking for aliens or rogue artificial intelligences on the internet. Sounds fun, right? You might use the same technology to identify hidden political enemies as well.

Remember the Glomar Explorer? That ship was supposedly looking for manganese nodules on the ocean floor. I remember the popular science articles. The ship was in fact built to recover a sunken Soviet submarine.

In any case, supposing some alien near-omnipotent intelligence is teasing us, then there really isn't anything we can do about it, no defenses we can muster. It's trivially easy for a star-faring people to destroy an emergent civilization that annoys it. Maybe that's what happened to the dinosaurs.

If the space aliens want to talk to us they will. Otherwise we are just monkeys screaming at the airplanes in the sky.

[left-of-center2012]

147. Well, okie dokie

[hunter]

148. I had fun writing it.

This earth is a pretty nice place.

It would be a shame if something happened to it.

I'm just here to watch Freddie Mercury and practice some biology.

[XanaDUer2]

24. Imo, there are so many more priorities nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

153. Which is why they'll be doing this instead.

[tavernier]

28. Oh, ok. She must have finished investigating

Al Franken.

[elevator]

90. Al Franken, based on when asked about UFOs has expressed a belief in alien life

in the cosmos, a belief in some evidence for ufos and would probably vote to fund serious research into the phenomenon.

[tavernier]

96. Would have.

Sadly…

[jcgoldie]

29. I love the mystery as much as the next nerd but feel the legislature should fucking solve problems

This is not one.

[elevator]

92. It sure as hell could turn into big fn problem if any of several things are true.

If the craft in our atmosphere, doing impossible maneuvers, are from a rival nation, if they are funded by some secret black budget draining billions unaccounted for, if they are operated by some non-governmental group that has developed this technology and is keeping it secret, then yes, there are several problems.

[jcgoldie]

120. Yeah right

As soon as we address climate change like the way we are destroying our own planet which we have complete knowledge and control over… then I’ll pay attention to all that maybe could be who knows shit.

[elevator]

129. Doubt we'll be waiting for your attention to shift.

So we should forget any legislation on any issue but climate change? Gotcha.

[SarcasticSatyr]

34. Seems like a big waste of time and money to me ....

we need to investigate more important stuff, like crop circles and the Loch Ness monster . (do I really need a sarcasm emoji)

[CloudWatcher]

37. Hmm, on second thought ....

I was going to post about what a waste of time and money this would be, but then I
realized that I'd much rather have idiots chasing UFO's -- where they are relatively
harmless -- than in positions of actual power & responsibility.

Hard to say for sure, but this might be a good idea.

[LunaSea]

58. And yet

people in those positions of actual power & responsibility are telling us that there IS weird shit in our skies
and they don't know what it is.
They've not quite gotten around to talking about how this phenomena has expressed great interest
in and interfered with our nuclear weapons systems.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-air-force-personnel-ufos-deactivated-nukes/
http://www.nicap.org/babylon/missile_incidents.htm

We spend far less on this puzzle than it takes to make a modern movie.
So applying the talents of some of our brighter minds could be a very good idea.

[elevator]

93. If you haven't noticed we have a shitload of idiots in positions of power

responsibility and influence. Do you have one of those positions?
Ya gotta bring more than that.

[bucolic_frolic]

38. I don't care who they are, we should accept help from anywhere

[KS Toronado]

64. First reply that made me giggle

[trusty elf]

44. ...

[Harker]

54. Don't mess with Lightnin' Hopkins. n/t

[LeftInTX]

48. "This Is Urgent!"

OK...whatever....

I have higher priorities.

I thought this was an Onion headline.

[elevator]

95. Do our country's best interests have to coincide with your priorities?

Just asking for a few friends.

[PDT69]

57. The aliens already showed up and left.

[LeftInTX]

60. The evidence is clear:

[Jacson6]

87. Lil' Green Men From Mars

It is impossible to traverse the Galaxy to visit other planets. It takes thousands to million of years.

[elevator]

107. In a Model T, or Edsel yeah. But, with FTL travel easy peasy.

But, don't wear a hat, the speed keeps knocking it off.

[Jacson6]

108. Well I can't travel in Interstellar space!

I must always wear a hat!

[elevator]

110. Just make sure it matches your shoes and scarf.

and you're forgiven.

[pecosbob]

154. There needs to be a push for full transparency

[triron]

155. He is in 'the know'!