General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs Rittenhouse crapping his pants right now?
The rightwingers I know thought that this would be a quick acquittal. But time is passing, and passing, and passing.... which by now means, of course, that somebody on the jury believes he's guilty of at least one major charge.
Maybe even REAL tears by now.
Yes, I know... this didn't deserve its own thread.
dixiechiken1
(2,113 posts)And I hope when they do finally come back, they give him some more to cry about.
olegramps
(8,200 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Goodheart
(5,307 posts)His defense team certainly didn't believe so when they asked for a mistrial yesterday.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)BlueLucy
(1,609 posts)It all depends on the case and it's hard to guess.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Just another urban legend. In fact, you have some saying the exact opposite:
Criminal defense attorney Michael Cardoza says that in his experience, a quick verdict usually favors the defendant. But this is an emotional case, even compared to murder cases, because we're talking about pedophiles and child molestation. The jurors are going to go over this evidence very, very carefully. This may well mean they cant come to a verdict and that theyre deadlocked.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna8149100
homegirl
(1,427 posts)records of the victims are not relevant, in fact they should not have been discussed in the court room. Kyle's victims could as easily have been a priest, a social worker or even an undercover law enforcement officer!
Thirty years served consecutively with no parole is too good for Kyle. And Mamma Rittenhouse should be next!
sarisataka
(18,470 posts)Raising a rotten child is not a crime.
homegirl
(1,427 posts)access to a weapon to a minor, transporting said minor and weapon over state lines.
sarisataka
(18,470 posts)And has been repeatedly debunked here, farther down in this thread even.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)The onus of proof is on the prosecution.
If the jury cant decide, then the failure belongs to the prosecution, not the defense.
The defense has the favor going in, innocent unless proven guilty.
The burden is ALWAYS on the prosecution.
People here lose their shit over a simple fucking statement. FAVOR doesnt mean the defense will prevail. It means they have the odds in their favor.
If the prosecution proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt and it was crystal clear, the jury would come back right away.
Clearly, that isnt the case here.
That doesnt mean the defendant wont be found guilty. It just means the odds are in his favor.
For fucks sakes people.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)We don't know what the jury is discussing. Anyone who is trying to predict the verdict based on how long the jury meets is probably also someone who believes Punxsutawney Phil can predict when winter ends.
There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate either way. It's a myth. There are 'no odds in his favor' because the jury is taking its time. That is just pure make believe and the link I posted proves this.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)When you dont know. Thats sounds familiar
a kennedy
(29,603 posts)W_HAMILTON
(7,830 posts)regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)that generally applies in clear-cut trials where the prosecution seems to have easily demonstrated guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In a case like this, where the judge was basically skewing everything in the defenses favor, the lack of a quick acquittal seems to portend something quite different. While I dont think hell be convicted on everything, this does suggest a guilty verdict on at least some of the charges.
iluvtennis
(19,821 posts)the maiming for Gaige Grosskreutz.
TexasTowelie
(111,890 posts)I think that the jury believes that he is guilty of some crime, they are trying to determine what level the crime escalated to.
calimary
(81,085 posts)BlueTsunami2018
(3,480 posts)Fast usually means not guilty.
But I dont have a lot of expectations for this trial.
ProfessorGAC
(64,807 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 18, 2021, 06:27 PM - Edit history (1)
We deliberated 20 minutes. I was foreman, and I only directed the discussion, never expressed an opinion.
I took one vote. 12 Not Guilty votes.
20 minutes.
The prosecution, to me, didn't even prove a crime was actually committed, let alone prove beyond doubt the defendant did it.
I'm with you.
I don't think the jury deliberating longer is an indicator of a decision on guilt or innocence, particularly when there are multiple options as to crime & culpability.
Edited because Celerity noticed a boneheaded mistake.
Celerity
(43,056 posts)ProfessorGAC
(64,807 posts)Thanks. I'll correct it.
paleotn
(17,870 posts)Ponietz
(2,934 posts)Quick verdicts were likely to be acquittals in my jurisdictionthe longer they were out the more likely they would convict on something. My guess is theres a DUMP humper or two on the jury holding up a conviction(s).
Yesterday the thread about the defense motion for new trial drew similar expert analysis.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)See my fucking response above
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Lunabell
(6,044 posts)I wish that the victims would sue the whole family too. Bankrupt the mom and dad for instigating this crime if there are no criminal charges against them.
But, I hope you're right and they see it as I see it. A planned vigilante crime.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Can you elaborate?
Sympthsical
(9,026 posts)You say they instigated it.
DENVERPOPS
(8,785 posts)that illegally bought the gun, and also, who gave him the money to buy it and the ammunition....those weapons are not cheap.
Those individuals, complicit in the crime, should get prison time also.............
I ask the question, in a criminal trial does the jury need to be unanimous for a guilty decision? If so, I can't imagine a jury being picked anywhere in the nation that wouldn't have at least one white supremacist or Trumphumper seated on it........
ProfessorGAC
(64,807 posts)A "friend" bought it for him & stored in Wisconsin.
That person has been indicted.
While I understand your sentiment, but if we encourage that, it should be directed toward those actually culpable.
His parents may be a couple of tools who raised a small minded wannabe vigilante, but that doesn't make them guilty of any crime.
Haggard Celine
(16,834 posts)from a stimulus unemployment check. It was $1200, and he.decided then to take the money and buy a.gun with it. He wasn't old enough to buy it for himself, so he got a friend in Wisconsin to buy it for him. The friend was told that he was really buying the gun for Kyle's mom. The friend has been charged for providing a weapon to a minor, and he might get up to 25 years for that.
localroger
(3,620 posts)...for actually using the gun to murder two people.
Haggard Celine
(16,834 posts)You know that guy is going to feel like a real idiot if Kyle gets off and he gets 25 years. Well, I suppose he already feels like an idiot!
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)DU really is an immediate gratification kind of place I guess.
Goodheart
(5,307 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Goodheart
(5,307 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Worn out.
I really want to believe hes convicted of something,
calimary
(81,085 posts)I hope this follows him for life.
I hope it actually ruins his life.
Harsh? Yes. But consider this: at least he still HAS a life.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)No one will want anything to do with him.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)as Matt Gaetz's intern?
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)But our government is bizarro world right now.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)And yes, yes it is.
SoCalNative
(4,613 posts)because no matter what happens with this trial, the feds are just waiting to swoop in.
forthemiddle
(1,375 posts)What charges can the Feds bring against him?
This I purely a State case.
SoCalNative
(4,613 posts)he crossed state lines with an illegally possessed firearm. That's one. Civil rights violations would be my second guess.
forthemiddle
(1,375 posts)Once again some posters show they are no more informed than the average FOX watcher.
1. He NEVER crossed State lines with a firearm.
2. All of his victims were white, so I dont see any Civil Rights case.
These two points , along with his mother did not drive him to the protest, are rebutted several times every single day.
SoCalNative
(4,613 posts)who is correct on this one.
Sympthsical
(9,026 posts)You were misinformed and stated untrue things. How he got the gun and how he got to Kenosha were covered extensively in the trial and in many stories about it.
ProfessorGAC
(64,807 posts)His pal from Wisconsin bought the gun & stored it at his house.
Rittenhouse got the gun AFTER he crossed state lines. It wasn't illegally obtained in Illinois and transported.
The guy that bought a KID a gun for use in Wisconsin is awaiting trial for his actions.
TwilightZone
(25,423 posts)"Kyle Rittenhouse arrived in Kenosha on his own and went to the protest with a friend who provided him with the gun. The gun was kept at the home of the friends stepfather in Kenosha."
These were debunked a long time ago. Did you see the portraits of the victims?
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)He killed white people so Im missing any civil rights violations.
Polybius
(15,328 posts)He never took one across state lines.
Kingofalldems
(38,417 posts)Not looking good for him at all.
Scottie Mom
(5,812 posts)If an easy not guilty, IMO, the jury would have come in by now.
There are five charges and they are taking their time...I am hoping for guilty on all five...but anything that puts that White Supremacist POS in prison for a felony would greatly brighten my day.
Polybius
(15,328 posts)He's the man who admitted on the stand that he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse before he was shot.
jaysunb
(11,856 posts)If found guilty and sent to prison he will be an immediate martyr of the right both in the joint and on the street. The white prison gangs will embrace and protect him from all others. That leadership will reward one of their own by making him a highly prized wife. He and his husband will never lack commissary as the $$ will flow in.
If acquitted... think George Zimmerman..the $$ will continue to flow.
Evolve Dammit
(16,689 posts)host proclaimed. Nazi salute Ingraham I think.
Response to jaysunb (Reply #20)
IowaGuy This message was self-deleted by its author.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)IowaGuy
(778 posts)When I'm wrong, it is proper to call me out on it. Thanks.
Traildogbob
(8,670 posts)Hes already hired by Matt Gaetz as a Congressional Intern. And News Max said they would hire him the day he is acquitted. Obviously the only skill for either is Kill Dems and lie your ass off. He fits right in. Morals, Jesus, guns Kings and FreeDumb.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Gaetz blowing hot air.
Traildogbob
(8,670 posts)Shoulda said he is as good as hired. If they take, steal, house and senate, dont underestimate how absurd they will go to please MAGAs. Except passing ANY policies to help em. Hell, they got Boerbert, Trailer Queen, Gaetz, Cawthorn etc in much higher positions.
modrepub
(3,488 posts)Seriously, Zimmerman was a real dead ender before he shot Tryvon. Sure he got some fame but he's not capable of really doing anything with it. Someone who has to file a $100M lawsuit against his victim's family isn't a person with any real redeeming capabilities to function in modern society.
I can't imagine Kyle will do much better. Sure he'll get some publicity and $$ from all this. But I suspect he'll be embroiled in some lawsuits with his parents over stolen money or various tax scams that will be made on his behalf. I don't think he or his parents are that smart. More apt to spend their winnings on weird vacations, mobile homes or speculative land deals.
Life is a long slog. There are precious few who can manage it with grace and courage.
Celerity
(43,056 posts)reACTIONary
(5,765 posts)MerryBlooms
(11,754 posts)The people who find prison rape and/or inmates as wives (sex chattel) a good or humorous thing, need to do some self reflection. I know a guy who spent 10 years in state prison. He has horror stories about men who these folks are giggling about, or wishing those tortures upon.
Same thing for the those who think women prisoners aren't raped by fellow inmates.
EarlG made comment recently about educating oneself before commenting on on a certain issue. This prison rape topic is definitely another one, where he needs to step in. Way too many prison rape jokes allowed, and way too much ignorance and acceptance of prison sexual violence.
MustLoveBeagles
(11,580 posts)Celerity
(43,056 posts)I said it was NOT 'fine'
MerryBlooms
(11,754 posts)Celerity
(43,056 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)EarlG has even spoken out against this, but still it continues.
Really makes one wonder
sarisataka
(18,470 posts)For the glorification of sexual violence to make an appearance.
I had hoped maybe we were becoming better.
I have said before and will continue to say inmate on inmate violence is not a benefit of the system. It is a flaw that people who claim to be progressive should oppose in all cases.
jaysunb
(11,856 posts)It's a reality whether you or anyone else are offended by it. And FYI all prison sex is not violent. Some people are just fine with it.
Oh yes, and do you think women behind bars are being subjected to violence and if so, how does that happen. ?
Reality and idealism can sometimes collide.
sarisataka
(18,470 posts)That leadership will reward one of their own by making him a highly prized wife
Being used as chattel and sex trafficked isn't what I would call "fine".
I did not comment about women in prison however I cannot recall a time where someone posted a 'joke' or mentioned the reality of future violence related to a woman going to prison. The commentary is only used to reference males who are heading to prison. Why do you suppose that is? Do people think women's prison isn't as violent as men's, that rape by guards or other inmates doesn't happen?
I believe a woman's future in prison isn't much different than a man's and will call out anyone who makes light if it, should that ever happen.
MerryBlooms
(11,754 posts)Women inmate violence before commenting further.
Women inmates are most certainly sexually assaulted by other inmates.
yardwork
(61,533 posts)Seriously?!
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)That leadership will reward one of their own by making him a highly prized wife. He and his husband will never lack commissary as the $$ will flow in.
There is so much wrong with this statement, I hardly know where to begin.
DFW
(54,268 posts)"Son, this will be dragged out for dramatic effect, and to give the libs a temporary thrill, but I took care of you in the courtroom, and I'll take care of you outside of it."
LymphocyteLover
(5,635 posts)DFW
(54,268 posts)He might as well have been doing closing arguments for the defense, as well as PR to the press on the courthouse steps. You'd think James Sensenbrenner was coaching him.
Tribetime
(4,681 posts)By now
maxsolomon
(33,232 posts)Or it could be just the opposite.
Wait and see, wait and see.
Response to Goodheart (Original post)
rainin This message was self-deleted by its author.
LymphocyteLover
(5,635 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,757 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,023 posts)I think the longer a verdict goes the more they're focusing on convincing one another than on fact of the case.
geardaddy
(24,926 posts)The GQP will make him their very own Horst Wessel.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,308 posts)over themselves to promise a pardon.
aeromanKC
(3,321 posts)I've gone from definitely a Hung Jury/Mistrial (both sides will have a hold out) to maybe a guilty charge with the long deliberations to now thinking the guilty holdout is getting ready to flip. I hope I'm wrong!!
Joinfortmill
(14,375 posts)Aussie105
(5,315 posts)You get an immature young person who put himself in danger's way, fully armed, with the intent to big note himself.
He killed two people, maimed a third.
In any other country, jury deliberation would take 15 minutes. Ten of those spent drinking the tea/coffee and biscuits supplied in the jury room.
Oh, nice! Coffee and biscuits! Oh yeah, guilty as sin, but give me time before going out again to drink my coffee and eat a few more biscuits!
Brainfodder
(6,423 posts)$$$$ is just so important that souls are lost?
Our vague/twistable system of laws is due a re-work?
How could that even happen with this travesty level of dumbfuckery on auto-pilot with no end in sight?
Tomconroy
(7,611 posts)Going on but I haven't heard that they have asked any.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)With the majority being pro conviction.
Goodheart
(5,307 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Tribetime
(4,681 posts)Of something
orangecrush
(19,382 posts)live love laugh
(13,069 posts)GoodRaisin
(8,905 posts)their closing argument. I thought it was very convincing that he had murdered people, whether intentionally or carelessly. I think he's going to do some significant hard time one way or the other.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)as the scariest wait of his life.