Is Rittenhouse crapping his pants right now?

[Goodheart]

The rightwingers I know thought that this would be a quick acquittal. But time is passing, and passing, and passing.... which by now means, of course, that somebody on the jury believes he's guilty of at least one major charge.

Maybe even REAL tears by now.


Yes, I know... this didn't deserve its own thread.

[dixiechiken1]

1. Hope so...

And I hope when they do finally come back, they give him some more to cry about.

[olegramps]

49. Could the lesser charges be reason for the longer session?

[berni_mccoy]

2. Lengthy deliberations favor the defendant

[Goodheart]

5. Link?

His defense team certainly didn't believe so when they asked for a mistrial yesterday.

[berni_mccoy]

12. It's common knowledge my friend

[BlueLucy]

28. I don't believe that.

It all depends on the case and it's hard to guess.

[Drunken Irishman]

34. There's no substantial evidence either way.

https://versustexas.com/blog/length-of-jury-deliberations/

Just another urban legend. In fact, you have some saying the exact opposite:

Criminal defense attorney Michael Cardoza says that in his experience, a quick verdict usually favors the defendant. “But this is an emotional case, even compared to murder cases, because we're talking about pedophiles and child molestation. The jurors are going to go over this evidence very, very carefully. This may well mean they can‘t come to a verdict and that they‘re deadlocked.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna8149100

[homegirl]

63. The past criminal

records of the victims are not relevant, in fact they should not have been discussed in the court room. Kyle's victims could as easily have been a priest, a social worker or even an undercover law enforcement officer!

Thirty years served consecutively with no parole is too good for Kyle. And Mamma Rittenhouse should be next!

[sarisataka]

66. What would she be charged with?

Raising a rotten child is not a crime.

[homegirl]

104. Giving

access to a weapon to a minor, transporting said minor and weapon over state lines.

[sarisataka]

105. You apparently don't realize that isn't true

And has been repeatedly debunked here, farther down in this thread even.

[berni_mccoy]

85. Think of it this way

The onus of proof is on the prosecution.

If the jury can’t decide, then the failure belongs to the prosecution, not the defense.

The defense has the favor going in, innocent unless proven guilty.

The burden is ALWAYS on the prosecution.

People here lose their shit over a simple fucking statement. FAVOR doesn’t mean the defense will prevail. It means they have the odds in their favor.

If the prosecution proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt and it was crystal clear, the jury would come back right away.

Clearly, that isn’t the case here.

That doesn’t mean the defendant won’t be found guilty. It just means the odds are in his favor.

For fuck’s sakes people.

[Drunken Irishman]

93. No way to think of it.

We don't know what the jury is discussing. Anyone who is trying to predict the verdict based on how long the jury meets is probably also someone who believes Punxsutawney Phil can predict when winter ends.

There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate either way. It's a myth. There are 'no odds in his favor' because the jury is taking its time. That is just pure make believe and the link I posted proves this.

[USALiberal]

82. Then it should be really easy for you to post a link! Nt

[berni_mccoy]

84. Hung up on proving shit

When you don’t know. That’s sounds familiar

[a kennedy]

6. Damn.....

[W_HAMILTON]

16. Cite your source.

[regnaD kciN]

17. While that's the maxim...

…that generally applies in clear-cut trials where the prosecution seems to have easily demonstrated guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In a case like this, where the judge was basically skewing everything in the defense’s favor, the lack of a quick acquittal seems to portend something quite different. While I don’t think he’ll be convicted on everything, this does suggest a guilty verdict on at least some of the charges.

[iluvtennis]

31. Fingers crossed for GUILTYs of murders of Rosenbaum and Huber. Also hoping for GUILTY for

the maiming for Gaige Grosskreutz.

[TexasTowelie]

33. I agree.

I think that the jury believes that he is guilty of some crime, they are trying to determine what level the crime escalated to.

[calimary]

77. So do I.

[BlueTsunami2018]

21. I think it's quite the opposite.

Fast usually means not guilty.

But I don’t have a lot of expectations for this trial.

[ProfessorGAC]

39. I Was On A Jury In March 2020

Last edited Thu Nov 18, 2021, 06:27 PM - Edit history (1)

We deliberated 20 minutes. I was foreman, and I only directed the discussion, never expressed an opinion.
I took one vote. 12 Not Guilty votes.
20 minutes.
The prosecution, to me, didn't even prove a crime was actually committed, let alone prove beyond doubt the defendant did it.
I'm with you.
I don't think the jury deliberating longer is an indicator of a decision on guilt or innocence, particularly when there are multiple options as to crime & culpability.
Edited because Celerity noticed a boneheaded mistake.

[Celerity]

50. Do you mean prosecution?

The defense, to me, didn't even prove a crime was actually committed, let alone prove beyond doubt the defendant did it.

[ProfessorGAC]

55. I Did, Yes!

Thanks. I'll correct it.

[paleotn]

22. Conventional wisdom leans to the opposite, but time will tell in this case.

[Ponietz]

52. Not in my 25 years of criminal defense trial work

Quick verdicts were likely to be acquittals in my jurisdiction—the longer they were out the more likely they would convict on something. My guess is there’s a DUMP humper or two on the jury holding up a conviction(s).

Yesterday the thread about the defense motion for new trial drew similar ‘expert’ analysis.

[uponit7771]

53. +1, the opposite sounds like people looking through evidence

[berni_mccoy]

86. Yeah I got lots of lawyers in the fam

See my fucking response above

[Tomconroy]

3. It is a nerve wracking situation be on trial facing a long prison sentence.

[Lunabell]

4. I hope you're right.

I wish that the victims would sue the whole family too. Bankrupt the mom and dad for instigating this crime if there are no criminal charges against them.

But, I hope you're right and they see it as I see it. A planned vigilante crime.

[BlackSkimmer]

9. What mom and dad instigated this crime?

Can you elaborate?

[Sympthsical]

10. How are the parents involved in this again?

You say they instigated it.

[DENVERPOPS]

27. who are the person(s)

that illegally bought the gun, and also, who gave him the money to buy it and the ammunition....those weapons are not cheap.
Those individuals, complicit in the crime, should get prison time also.............

I ask the question, in a criminal trial does the jury need to be unanimous for a guilty decision? If so, I can't imagine a jury being picked anywhere in the nation that wouldn't have at least one white supremacist or Trumphumper seated on it........

[ProfessorGAC]

42. Gun Was Bought With His Money

A "friend" bought it for him & stored in Wisconsin.
That person has been indicted.
While I understand your sentiment, but if we encourage that, it should be directed toward those actually culpable.
His parents may be a couple of tools who raised a small minded wannabe vigilante, but that doesn't make them guilty of any crime.

[Haggard Celine]

48. I read here yesterday that Kyle got the money for the gun

from a stimulus unemployment check. It was $1200, and he.decided then to take the money and buy a.gun with it. He wasn't old enough to buy it for himself, so he got a friend in Wisconsin to buy it for him. The friend was told that he was really buying the gun for Kyle's mom. The friend has been charged for providing a weapon to a minor, and he might get up to 25 years for that.

[localroger]

75. Which might be more time than KR gets

...for actually using the gun to murder two people.

[Haggard Celine]

76. Ain't that something?

You know that guy is going to feel like a real idiot if Kyle gets off and he gets 25 years. Well, I suppose he already feels like an idiot!

[BlackSkimmer]

7. Really hasn't been that long.

DU really is an immediate gratification kind of place I guess.

[Goodheart]

8. Guilty!

[BlackSkimmer]

13. Well, I agree. He obviously murdered two people. Period.

[Goodheart]

15. I meant I'm guilty of what you charged me with.

[BlackSkimmer]

18. Lol, sorry, outside doing battle with autumn leaves.

Worn out.

I really want to believe he’s convicted of something,

[calimary]

62. So do I! And rather fervently, too.

I hope this follows him for life.

I hope it actually ruins his life.

Harsh? Yes. But consider this: at least he still HAS a life.

[BlackSkimmer]

67. I think he's in for a bad time, even if acquitted.

No one will want anything to do with him.

[SMC22307]

78. You really think that? Or will he be walking the halls of Congress...

as Matt Gaetz's intern?

[BlackSkimmer]

95. I really doubt it.

But our government is bizarro world right now.

[SMC22307]

110. Evidently #RollerNazi Madison Cawthorn made the same offer.

And yes, yes it is.

[SoCalNative]

11. He should be

because no matter what happens with this trial, the feds are just waiting to swoop in.

[forthemiddle]

30. On what charges?

What charges can the Feds bring against him?
This I purely a State case.

[SoCalNative]

36. Well, for starters

he crossed state lines with an illegally possessed firearm. That's one. Civil rights violations would be my second guess.

[forthemiddle]

43. Wrong on both counts

Once again some posters show they are no more informed than the average FOX watcher.
1. He NEVER crossed State lines with a firearm.
2. All of his victims were white, so I don’t see any Civil Rights case.

These two points , along with his mother did not drive him to the protest, are rebutted several times every single day.

[SoCalNative]

45. We'll just wait and see

who is correct on this one.

[Sympthsical]

79. No, these are established facts. There is no "wait and see" for established facts.

You were misinformed and stated untrue things. How he got the gun and how he got to Kenosha were covered extensively in the trial and in many stories about it.

[ProfessorGAC]

46. No He Didn't

His pal from Wisconsin bought the gun & stored it at his house.
Rittenhouse got the gun AFTER he crossed state lines. It wasn't illegally obtained in Illinois and transported.
The guy that bought a KID a gun for use in Wisconsin is awaiting trial for his actions.

[TwilightZone]

56. The myth that won't die.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/nov/15/viral-image/kyle-rittenhouses-mother-did-not-bring-him-kenosha/

"Kyle Rittenhouse arrived in Kenosha on his own and went to the protest with a friend who provided him with the gun. The gun was kept at the home of the friend’s stepfather in Kenosha."

[manicdem]

71. False

These were debunked a long time ago. Did you see the portraits of the victims?

[BlackSkimmer]

96. He never crossed a state line with a firearm.

He killed white people so I’m missing any civil rights violations.

[Polybius]

108. The firearm was waiting for him when he arrived in WI

He never took one across state lines.

[Kingofalldems]

14. He was declared innocent last week I noticed.

Not looking good for him at all.

[Scottie Mom]

19. IMO: It's either a hung jury or at least one or more guilty verdicts

If an easy not guilty, IMO, the jury would have come in by now.

There are five charges and they are taking their time...I am hoping for guilty on all five...but anything that puts that White Supremacist POS in prison for a felony would greatly brighten my day.

[Polybius]

109. You wanted guilty on the charge of shooting Gaige Grosskreutz?

He's the man who admitted on the stand that he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse before he was shot.

[jaysunb]

20. He'll be fine either way.

If found guilty and sent to prison he will be an immediate martyr of the right both in the joint and on the street. The white prison gangs will embrace and protect him from all others. That leadership will reward one of their own by making him a highly prized wife. He and his husband will never lack commissary as the $$ will flow in.
If acquitted... think George Zimmerman..the $$ will continue to flow.

[Evolve Dammit]

24. And Gaetz wants to hire him as an aide. He's a golden child; "my president" one RWNJ cable news

host proclaimed. Nazi salute Ingraham I think.

[jaysunb]

60. 😆 🤣 nt

[BlackSkimmer]

100. Classy. nt

[IowaGuy]

111. Upon some reflection, your sarcasm towards my unthinking post was well deserved - self deleting.

When I'm wrong, it is proper to call me out on it. Thanks.

[Traildogbob]

29. 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣

He’s already hired by Matt Gaetz as a Congressional Intern. And News Max said they would hire him the day he is acquitted. Obviously the only skill for either is Kill Dems and lie your ass off. He fits right in. Morals, Jesus, guns Kings and FreeDumb.

[BlackSkimmer]

99. No, he has NOT been hired by anyone.

Gaetz blowing hot air.

[Traildogbob]

102. Sarcasm🤨

Shoulda said he is “as good as” hired. If they take, steal, house and senate, don’t underestimate how absurd they will go to please MAGA’s. Except passing ANY policies to help em. Hell, they got Boerbert, Trailer Queen, Gaetz, Cawthorn etc in much higher positions.

[modrepub]

41. Mark Who?!?

Seriously, Zimmerman was a real dead ender before he shot Tryvon. Sure he got some fame but he's not capable of really doing anything with it. Someone who has to file a $100M lawsuit against his victim's family isn't a person with any real redeeming capabilities to function in modern society.

I can't imagine Kyle will do much better. Sure he'll get some publicity and $$ from all this. But I suspect he'll be embroiled in some lawsuits with his parents over stolen money or various tax scams that will be made on his behalf. I don't think he or his parents are that smart. More apt to spend their winnings on weird vacations, mobile homes or speculative land deals.

Life is a long slog. There are precious few who can manage it with grace and courage.

[Celerity]

51. anally raped for years doesn't sound 'fine' but hey, that's just me

will reward one of their own by making him a highly prized wife

[reACTIONary]

74. That's just me too. nt

[MerryBlooms]

87. Or his front teeth busted out.

The people who find prison rape and/or inmates as wives (sex chattel) a good or humorous thing, need to do some self reflection. I know a guy who spent 10 years in state prison. He has horror stories about men who these folks are giggling about, or wishing those tortures upon.

Same thing for the those who think women prisoners aren't raped by fellow inmates.

EarlG made comment recently about educating oneself before commenting on on a certain issue. This prison rape topic is definitely another one, where he needs to step in. Way too many prison rape jokes allowed, and way too much ignorance and acceptance of prison sexual violence.

[MustLoveBeagles]

89. Agreed on all points

[Celerity]

90. I think you are replying to the wrong person, I made no prison rape joke

I said it was NOT 'fine'

[MerryBlooms]

91. I'm agreeing with you.

[Celerity]

92. oh, sorry, I misunderstood!

[BlackSkimmer]

98. Certain people here really love the concept of prison rape.

EarlG has even spoken out against this, but still it continues.

Really makes one wonder…

[sarisataka]

65. I'm surprised it's taken this long

For the glorification of sexual violence to make an appearance.
I had hoped maybe we were becoming better.

I have said before and will continue to say inmate on inmate violence is not a benefit of the system. It is a flaw that people who claim to be progressive should oppose in all cases.

[jaysunb]

69. Where do I or any one else say they approve.

It's a reality whether you or anyone else are offended by it. And FYI all prison sex is not violent. Some people are just fine with it.
Oh yes, and do you think women behind bars are being subjected to violence and if so, how does that happen. ?
Reality and idealism can sometimes collide.

[sarisataka]

72. Uh-huh, sure

He'll be fine...
That leadership will reward one of their own by making him a highly prized wife

Being used as chattel and sex trafficked isn't what I would call "fine".

I did not comment about women in prison however I cannot recall a time where someone posted a 'joke' or mentioned the reality of future violence related to a woman going to prison. The commentary is only used to reference males who are heading to prison. Why do you suppose that is? Do people think women's prison isn't as violent as men's, that rape by guards or other inmates doesn't happen?

I believe a woman's future in prison isn't much different than a man's and will call out anyone who makes light if it, should that ever happen.

[MerryBlooms]

88. You need to educate yourself on

Women inmate violence before commenting further.

Women inmates are most certainly sexually assaulted by other inmates.

[yardwork]

103. You seriously don't think women behind bars are subjected to violence?!

Seriously?!

[BlackSkimmer]

97. Are you for real?

“That leadership will reward one of their own by making him a highly prized wife. He and his husband will never lack commissary as the $$ will flow in.”

There is so much wrong with this statement, I hardly know where to begin.

[DFW]

23. Maybe he got a secret unsigned note from the judge

"Son, this will be dragged out for dramatic effect, and to give the libs a temporary thrill, but I took care of you in the courtroom, and I'll take care of you outside of it."

[LymphocyteLover]

37. LOL! You never know. I hope not.

[DFW]

44. I just saw a few brief clips of that judge speaking from the bench

He might as well have been doing closing arguments for the defense, as well as PR to the press on the courthouse steps. You'd think James Sensenbrenner was coaching him.

[Tribetime]

80. Yes and the judge is probably thinking I thought I fixed it really good it should have been over

By now

[maxsolomon]

25. There could be a Nullifier on the Jury who refuses to convict, no matter what.

Or it could be just the opposite.

Wait and see, wait and see.

[LymphocyteLover]

35. I'm sure he's getting nervous--- it's fine to make a thread on this!

[Stinky The Clown]

38. I was Rec 37. Seems others think this DID deserve its own thread.

[bucolic_frolic]

40. There's doubt in someone's mind about something

I think the longer a verdict goes the more they're focusing on convincing one another than on fact of the case.

[geardaddy]

47. If he's convicted

The GQP will make him their very own Horst Wessel.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

83. The next right wing d-bags running for the republican Governor primary will probably be falling...

… over themselves to promise a pardon.

[aeromanKC]

54. Bad feeling about this

I've gone from definitely a Hung Jury/Mistrial (both sides will have a hold out) to maybe a guilty charge with the long deliberations to now thinking the guilty holdout is getting ready to flip. I hope I'm wrong!!

[Joinfortmill]

57. I do hope so.

[Aussie105]

58. If you cut through the politics around this case . . .

You get an immature young person who put himself in danger's way, fully armed, with the intent to big note himself.

He killed two people, maimed a third.

In any other country, jury deliberation would take 15 minutes. Ten of those spent drinking the tea/coffee and biscuits supplied in the jury room.

Oh, nice! Coffee and biscuits! Oh yeah, guilty as sin, but give me time before going out again to drink my coffee and eat a few more biscuits!

[Brainfodder]

59. Did humans lose the ability to connect the dots or...

$$$$ is just so important that souls are lost?

Our vague/twistable system of laws is due a re-work?

How could that even happen with this travesty level of dumbfuckery on auto-pilot with no end in sight?

[Tomconroy]

61. Sometimes jury questions give you a hint as to what is

Going on but I haven't heard that they have asked any.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. The fact they are out this long suggests the holdouts are pro acquittal

With the majority being pro conviction.

[Goodheart]

73. The holdouts will be wingnut heroes with many TV appearances

[left-of-center2012]

68. I'm guessing a 'hung jury'

[Tribetime]

81. That's what I thought last week this week I think he's going to be convicted

Of something

[orangecrush]

70. Yes it did

[live love laugh]

94. 🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽

[GoodRaisin]

101. He should have started shitting his pants when the Prosecution delivered

their closing argument. I thought it was very convincing that he had murdered people, whether intentionally or carelessly. I think he's going to do some significant hard time one way or the other.

[Devil Child]

106. No n/t

[fescuerescue]

107. I'm sure he will look back at those 3 days

as the scariest wait of his life.