Quick history lesson for those who don't understand what is happening now

[AZLD4Candidate]

Last edited Sat Nov 20, 2021, 01:02 PM - Edit history (2)

Another DUer posted "what doomed the Weimar Republic." There is more to it that what the DUer said and I felt, as a renegade history teacher who refuses to teach or even use history textbooks in his class, I should expand on that idea.

What the DUer said is absolutely correct. The Weimar Republic came down harder on the Sparticist rebellion than they did on the Kapp Putsch or the Beerhall Putsch. They even allowed the Freikorp to enforce laws, albeit selectively.

But what also doomed the WM was the fact that those out to destroy it used the laws and democracy to destroy it. Instead of violently taking over, those that would destroy it used elections and media to justify their actions and doom the WM.

In class, I teach that if a group wants to take over, there needs to be four conditions met:
1: Widespread fear (anti-vax crap)
2: Widespread poverty (some of the most Trumpian states are the poorest in the country)
3: Widespread anger (Trumpers)
4: Widespread hopelessness (voter apathy in saying they are all the same)

As soon as those conditions are met, all a despot needs to do is four simple things:
1: Blame the current government for the condition (Democrats)
2: Find a scapegoat (Foreigners, liberal elites, BLM, CRT, Jews)
3: Portray yourself at the answer to all your problems (Republicans)
4: Manufacture and exploit a crisis (Supply Chain, COVID19, refugee crisis, etc)

Works like a charm every time in history. Remember, for a despot to take over, it's all about appealing to emotion, not intellectualism.

Intellectual arguments die in the face of emotional reactions.

[ashredux]

1. Yep...you got it....

We have seen this “movie” before. The rise of fascism is dangerous, not only for the country that is plagued by it, but also the world.

[AZLD4Candidate]

15. Fascist regime. Communist regime. Doesn't matter. Authoritarianism is the key

The only difference between Hitler and Stalin was economic policy.

[plimsoll]

35. I'm not entirely convinced of that.

The targeted genocide by Hitler gives him a bit of an edge. Even if Stalin caused more deaths, it wasn't "this ethnic group is the root of all evil," and more "these people are dangerous to me." The end result is the same, but for that extra bit of deliberate evil I think Hitler gets the nod.

[AZLD4Candidate]

39. Holodomor - The targeted starvation of Ukranians

[plimsoll]

45. Not to minimize that situation, but can you ascribe that to Stalin?

I had read that there were contributing factors, like a prolonged drought and lingering anger at the Ukranians over support for the White Russians during the civil war. That the Soviets made it infinitely worse is beyond question, but I'm suspicious of the trend to make them equally as bad. It seems like post facto cover to justify our cold war positions. On the other had I did expect you to mention the treatment of the Poles before the Germans and USSR decided to go after each other.

[AZLD4Candidate]

46. He cut off food supplies to Ukraine to break their national spirit

Food shortages are usually 90% human caused.

When was the last deer famine? Nature does not stop its inhabitants in an ecosystem to not have food. That's basic human geography.

[Farmer-Rick]

40. Fascism has authoritarian control built into it. Communism does not

Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy, which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Communism is based on communal ownership....wealth is held in common, by everyone. That is where the word comes from - common. It does not have to be held in an authoritarian government or even need a dictator. It can be held by a democracy. It can be held by a socialist society. Communism is more a description of an economic system as defined by Karl Marx. Government control and genocidal dictators are not a requirement of communism but they are for fascism.

The 2 are not different faces of the same coin.

[AZLD4Candidate]

42. I didn't say it was. I said authoritarianism was.

[Ohioboy]

51. Yep.

This is what I've been warning my brother and mother about. It's the authoritarianism that you have to be careful of.

[TigressDem]

63. True Communism is good, especially when it is voluntary and no one is looking to control.

However, rich people who want to rule the world can often co-op and misuse anything as a weapon against the people.

Russia certainly turned Communism into a way for the rich to stay in power over the common man.

But it's no longer true communism. It's an Oligarchy. Rule of the rich and powerful.

[Farmer-Rick]

79. Yeah in Russia they took the means of production from the filthy rich

And gave it to the government. Which then became as corrupted as the filthy rich were. They thought the mass of people would vote out any corrupt government officials. They underestimated the filthy rich and their ability to propagandize most of the voters.

What Russia failed to do was to spread the power and wealth around to the rest of the commune. If they had done that, we would never had seen a mass murderer like Stalin or even a Putin.

[soldierant]

49. Communism is an economic system - or teory.

Authoritarianism can accompany any economic system - or theory.

Fascism is not an economic system or theory. It's more like a kind of nationalism. Not being a historian myself, I'd be hard put tpp define what the economic system was in Hitler's Germany. But yeah, it wasn't communism.

[cayugafalls]

2. So much this no more needs to be said...

well done.

[lastlib]

3. Very important points! I would also add this:

[link:https://rense.com//general37/fascism.htm|The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism]

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

--snip--

More at link.

[llmart]

41. All of those characteristics were evident after 9/11.

Some of us saw it right from the start - the "you're either with us or against us" mantra from Dubya. The proliferation of flags, flag pins on politicians lapels, you name it. This is why I will never forgive that idiot and his cohorts a pass as being an acceptable president. Trump just made him look more acceptable to many.

[SouthBayDem]

47. You do realize Rense is a right wing nut site right?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/rense/

[soldierant]

50. The fourteen points are the fourteen points.

If Rense is putting them forward as a to-do list, they are still the fourteen points.

Umberto Eco phrased them a bit differenty, if you prefer his version.

https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html

[TigressDem]

64. Doesn't that make it MORE ironic?

The ReThugs say they are against FACISM (they think ANTIFA is for it) and yet they are following those 14 points like a playbook.

[wryter2000]

4. There's an interesting show on Netflix

How to Become a Dictator. Pretty much lays out what you've said here. It was pretty chilling that one of the books on Trump's last year was titled Only I Can Fix It. One of the hallmarks of a dictator.

[SayItLoud]

5. Great Post.

What's your teaching about a solution?

[AZLD4Candidate]

7. Just keep slogging at it and maybe I can turn on the light to all of this

I have been successful in my career (one student told me because of my class, she will go into law and political science to try to change the world rather than engineering so she won't "make rich people wealthier on her work&quot .

If I can turn on one mind, I've earned my pay.

[SayItLoud]

6. Thanks for this great post.

Seeing this presented so clearly is chilling.

[msfiddlestix]

8. This 10,000 %

[lucca18]

9. This is real. I am so frustrated at the media.

I am depressed about the future.
How do we fight this?

Sometimes we take democracy for granted.
Now, we see how it can easily slip away.

Thank you for your post.

[Poiuyt]

10. Also add in how they get and maintain power

We saw Trump and his people attempt a self coup that luckily was not successful. But we are also seeing other attempts at maintaining Republican power through gerrymandering and voter suppression. I expect their attempts will be more successful in 2022 and 2024.

I didn't include the Electoral College because that was written into the Constitution, though it's incredibly arcane now.

[AZLD4Candidate]

11. Maintaining power is easy

"There is a boogie man out there and only we can protect you."

Make the boogie man something vague and abstract (communism, radical Islam, people working to destroy the American way) and not a person (Orwell got it wrong with Emmanuel Goldstein because people die. Dead person = no more boogie man) and tell the people over and over again they are in danger.

[panader0]

32. Another great boogie man is manifested in 'The War on Terror'.

There's no defined enemy, no enemy that wears a uniform. "They're everywhere, doncha know".
Then, with no stated goal or definition of winning this vague war, it can be funded endlessly
and used as political leverage forever.

[wnylib]

56. In the 1950s the boogie man was

communism supposedly infiltrating government, music, films, books, and public schools and colleges. The fear was promoted by Senator Joseph McCarthy and the John Birch Society.

In the 1960s, Bob Dylan satirized the Birch Society in his song, John Birch Society Blues. If you've never heard the song, it's worth a listen. Times and attitudes have changed enough that some younger people might not get all the humor and references in the song, but Boomers will appreciate it.

Do not underestimate the influence and value of the arts (music, books, films, plays, visual art) in the culture wars. They express our values and remibd people of them.

[Wounded Bear]

12. Another aspect is the clogging up of the legislature...

Nazis, though always a minority party, used parliamentary tricks to clog up and stifle anything getting done. So, the President of the Republic resorted to executive actions, which of course led to the accusations of 'authoritarianism,' but also to the acceptance of more authoritarian style government. And of course, that was hardly a reach in a country only one generation removed from Empire.

Our big advantage over the Weimar Republic is our long entrenched system, which barely survived the Trump regime and is still in wobbly condition. McConnell's blitz of the Judiciary means that fully a third of your judges are seriously RW ideologues.

Scary times.

[leftstreet]

13. Changes in media make it easier every century

From needing enough literacy that peons could read and understand flyers, tracts, and newspapers...to radio broadcasts...to television. Each media requiring less and less literacy, education, and critical thought

Imagine what Hitler could have done with Fox News

[AZLD4Candidate]

14. Historians like me have always considered how more effect he would have been with TV

Now we ask how effective he would have been with social media.

[leftstreet]

18. Social media would have been detrimental for him

Although it may not seem like it here in the US, social media is used throughout the world for push back against authoritarianism. Think Arab Spring, etc.

That's one reason we continually see corporate media posing the question "is social media harming blah, blah, blah.."

[AZLD4Candidate]

19. Unless you control it like the Chinese/all others do: Ban and block it.

Put all foreign social media behind a rigorous firewall, make VPNs illegal, and create your own that can be used.

North Korea has not internet. They have an intranet.

China has blocked all social media that is not Chinese based. Even wikipedia is blocked. TikTok, WeChat, RenRenWang (their version of facebook), TanTan (their version of tinder), etc. Goebbels could have done that too.

In a "news" article I read in the English version of China Daily, they actually said "Facebook is blocked in Eritrea, North Korea, and one other country. (emphasis mine) They did not mention that they were the one other country.

That's how news as propaganda works. Also, the word propaganda in China has been manipulated into meaning "information." So, the CCP's Propaganda Department literally translates, in English, to "Department of Information."

[leftstreet]

22. LOL how cunning

In a "news" article I read in the English version of China Daily, they actually said "Facebook is blocked in Eritrea, North Korea, and one other country. (emphasis mine) They did not mention that they were the one other country.

What clever media manipulation

I agree with you though about control of social media. That's why I bristle whenever politicians or corporate media talking heads start bashing Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. They need to leave us be!

[wnylib]

59. Communications are always targeted

for control by dictators. Control the message and you control the people. Split them up by denying them access to contacting each other and you prevent them from from organizing.

However, I am not against some reasonable regulations.

[Locrian]

16. indeed - this is important

Hitler used the "new fangled" radio very well to his advantage
Social medial etc was well used (and continues to be) by trump and the authoritarians

[AZLD4Candidate]

23. I've always said whoever uses the new technology best wins

Martin Luther with the printing press
Roosevelt with trains
FDR with radio
Kennedy with TV
Clinton with internet
Obama with social media

TFG just tapped the emotional arguments better and intellectualism dies in the face of emotional responses since most are kneejerk.

[wnylib]

58. And Twitter. Hitler would have loved it.

His American imitator does.

[llashram]

17. BAM! teach...

[Pepsidog]

20. An attack on critical infrastructure like the internet or electrical grid before an

the election will set the conditions which you describe for the legal takeover of democracy by an authoritarian leader. The media in the name of profits will go along with the destruction of our democracy.

[AZLD4Candidate]

21. Stalin said "it doesn't matter who votes. It matters who counts the votes."

Our media is owned by those that benefits from right wing policies.

I've always said, if you want real news from the US, look at foreign sources. They have no stake in the game.

[Mr.Bill]

36. What they did to this website on election day 2016

might have just been a test.

[Auggie]

24. Bookmarked, kicked, and recommended. Thanks for sharing.

[gulliver]

25. Generally true but there was no Internet then and no smartphone in the hand of everyone

Not to mention the fact that lots of folks of every political persuasion are armed to the teeth.

We might get a lot of sound and fury. We might get a return of Trump. But we ain't getting no Third Reich. Hell, even the Taliban are afraid to be themselves. There are billions of cameras out there able to immediately send photos and video to billions of people. That dominates the parameters you mention.

Our problem is that we don't hit the Republicans where it hurts. We let them define the game.

[AZLD4Candidate]

26. I've always said "Control the language, control the debate."

Democrats have had a huge problem with that because they over-estimate people.

Will Rogers in the 1920s said: "No one ever went broken underestimating the American voter." It still applies today.

HL Mencken said also: "In America, the people say they know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."

[FreepFryer]

33. There was radio. It was another transformation of the Information Age, also perfectly timed. (Nt)

[AZLD4Candidate]

43. Germans were required to have a communal radio in every town, forced by Party officials

to go and listen whenever Hitler or his flunkies gave speeches, and required to salute when told.

Radio was his social media and internet as were movies (Triumph of the Will).

[traitorsgalore]

27. The difference now is that the fear, hatred, anger and bigotry is all GOP, not the whole country

I think the U.S. is going to split, not implode or be taken over by the fascists. I think a few states will try to secede in 2022 or at least say their states are no longer a place for liberals. The GOPlague members will flock to those states and prepare for a civil war that will never happen. Americans don't want a civil war, we want a civil society and we'll be glad to see all the GOPlague nutcases gone.

Sure, the conspiracy theorist, anti-science nutjobs will try to take over local school boards and election positions but they'll fail. They'll try to take over the military but they'll fail. They'll try to spread their hatred and fear to every person in the country but they'll fail. It'll only work in a few states and I think the only way the U.S. will ever be rid of the GOPlague will be to let them have their fascist hellhole states wherein they hunt humans and spread disease.

[AZLD4Candidate]

29. As I say in my class about Nazi Germany

"1/3 of the people cheered as 1/3 of the people were exterminated, while the last 1/3 didn't care."

It's what we have today here as well.

[traitorsgalore]

60. Cute little quote but Americans won't sit back if repigs try to exterminate 1/3rd of the population

Tell your class what "repigs" are, covicidal plague rats so deluded by their own pathologically low self-esteem that they don't even believe in science and are now dying by the 1000s, suffocating to death in their own fluids. Then explain to your class how these lowlife freaks are going to take over the U.S. and exterminate 33% of us.

That'll get them thinking, LOL.

[uponit7771]

81. +1

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

28. Succinct. K&R

[Joinfortmill]

30. Thank you, explains a lot

[iluvtennis]

31. KnR. n/t

[Mr.Bill]

34. What's different is

the guy who wants to take over has already had a four year term as president and didn't really fix anything. In fact, he made things worse. We just have to make people see that.

[llmart]

44. Cult members will never see that. That's why they're cultists.

Also, there are plenty of others who are equally as evil as that guy and younger.

[malaise]

37. K & R

Great post

[Hekate]

38. KnR

[JMCKUSICK]

48. Appealing to emotion

When people say democrats have a messaging problem, AZLD4 nails it without trying. Democrats, and I am one, hardcore and frustrated, keep rolling out perfectly reasonable, sensible and factually correct messages and they don't have a fucking chance against the emotion based bullshit that the insurrectionists, I mean Republicans pound at every day relentlessly. Best example pre-Trump, Death panels and Obama care. They have been kicking our asses for as long as I've been paying attention. That's what drives the success of Fox news, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levine and all the other messaging gurus of our time.

[Evolve Dammit]

53. Agreed. Welcome to DU!

[JMCKUSICK]

65. Thank you been lurking for a long time, 2 replies before I can start posting lol

[Evolve Dammit]

67. I lurked during almost the whole Brush/Cheney regime. It's all good! DU comments saved me.

[MustLoveBeagles]

66. Welcome to DU

[Evolve Dammit]

52. Spot on!

[BeckyDem]

54. They've been primed for decades.

The US government does have deeply embedded problems, most of the worst created by Republicans. There is no con alive today who would vote for an Eisenhower-type politician.

[SarcasticSatyr]

55. Very informative post ...

both enlightening .. and chilling.

[ymetca]

57. Main difference I see

is the U.S. is a LOT more culturally diverse than Weimar Germany ever was. Hard to lump that much diversity into a single group and define it as "the" enemy. Plus, they all have guns, whatever their political stripes and persuasions.

That pesky 2nd Amendment may give these Fascists some pause. They'll watch their side crumble apart on that issue alone.

That's why American Fascists are so lousy at governing --because they all hate government and they love guns.

America may be the most sadistic, brutal Republic ever invented, but its overall sense of "fairness" (however warped it is), tends toward nobody, no how, nowhere, taking too much shit for too long, and using every conceivable means to mete out justice anyway possible.

The world sees us as crass, venal, self-obsessed "ugly" Americans. And, yeah, that's by design.

[PTWB]

77. Can't you see?

They’re setting it up for anyone left of a nazi to be the enemy. They’re in the process of convincing themselves that every single registered Democrat is the enemy and that the only solution is violence. You can watch it happen in real time.

Republicans are unhinged cultists.

[Hekate]

61. Bookmarked

[TigressDem]

62. Reading Thom Hartman's Book "The Hidden History of American Oligarchy"

It's hard on the soul, but a lot of truth in it.

The first half explains how we got here, AGAIN.

America has been on this precipice of losing our Democracy several times.

When I made it through the first 5 parts about the Who What Where When Why of the problem into Part 6 about SOLVING it, I was so relieved. It's still tough, and we may not be able to dig out this time. The rich have piled the bodies and lies so deep, it's hard to imagine every being clear of it in our lifetime.

But if we don't, America won't be a Democracy in anything but name.

Scary.

[wackadoo wabbit]

68. This is a great post that everyone should read

Thanks for writing/posting it!

[BlueIdaho]

69. I mostly agree with you but I have a question.

If this is so well understood, and the Third Reich was so adept at manipulating the levers of power why did it only last for roughly 6 to 8 years? Why in the end did it’s leaders swing from ropes, die by firing squads, and commit suicide?

Finally, if this is all so easily done, why was TFG a one term, twice impeached President?

Again I agree that to be forewarned is to be forearmed and thanks very much for your posts!

[AZLD4Candidate]

70. To answer your questions

1: Because they started a world war and their government internally was a complete shitshow.

2: Because sociopaths on the verge of losing will go to great lengths to avoid being held accountable.

3: Because the US doesn't have an authoritarian mindset in its history. . .until now.

[lees1975]

71. As a Civics/Economics/American History teacher for 25 years, I wholeheartedly agree

The similarities are chilling. Right down to the racist rhetoric.

[LittleGirl]

72. Kicked, Recommended and bookmarked, thanks! eom

[burrowowl]

73. Great post! Thanks!

[LaMouffette]

74. Excellent post! Now the question is: How do we combat this?

The Republican leaders and followers of the reich-wing have a plan: to infiltrate and eventually control all levels of government, from school boards and local police forces to state legislatures and judiciaries to all three branches of the federal government and the US military, and also to control the media. They have been disturbingly successful at carrying out this plan.

What is, or should be, our plan?

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

75. BA in history here. I agree. nt

[traitorsgalore]

76. Here's a link to what Americans in the 21st century are doing to combat the fascists...

This is in the reddest, stupidest, covidiot-filled part of the state too...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/19/spotsylvania-comes-its-senses-rescinds-order-banning-books-school-libraries/?

"...The absurdity of that task — and the comments from two board members that books found to be objectionable should be burned — sparked community outrage and national attention. After an outpouring of testimony during Monday’s four-hour public comment period, and an opinion from the school district’s attorney that such a ban was likely unconstitutional, the board backed down in a 5-to-2 vote. Dissenting were the two board members who talked about burning books, Kirk Twigg and Rabih Abuismail."

[dlk]

78. When a person's emotions are ramped up, their ability to think logically is short-circuited

Republicans understand this and use it to their advantage to win elections.

[uponit7771]

80. K&R,