GOP embraces natural immunity as substitute for vaccines

[Sherman A1]

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — Republicans fighting President Joe Biden's coronavirus vaccine mandates are wielding a new weapon against the White House rules: natural immunity.

They contend that people who have recovered from the virus have enough immunity and antibodies to not need COVID-19 vaccines, and the concept has been invoked by Republicans as a sort of stand-in for vaccines.

Florida wrote natural immunity into state law this week as GOP lawmakers elsewhere are pushing similar measures to sidestep vaccine mandates. Lawsuits over the mandates have also begun leaning on the idea. Conservative federal lawmakers have implored regulators to consider it when formulating mandates.

Scientists acknowledge that people previously infected with COVID-19 have some level of immunity but that vaccines offer a more consistent level of protection. Natural immunity is also far from a one-size-fits-all scenario, making it complicated to enact sweeping exemptions to vaccines.

https://krcgtv.com/news/nation-world/gop-embraces-natural-immunity-as-substitute-for-vaccines

[Bristlecone]

1. Of course. They also embrace stupidity as a substitute for intelligence

[Bettie]

2. Well, I hope that the consequences of their

stupidity come and bite them in the ass. Hard.

[Johonny]

18. Most of the politicians are vaccianted

This is really just the hardest feeding the fools what they want to hear, that we've seen from the right in a long time. None of it makes sense and the numbers suggest, their followers are taking it hard.

[malaise]

3. Well they're immune to rational thinking

so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[forthemiddle]

4. Is there any studies of reinfections vs breakthrough cases?

I have been looking for numbers to post for my anti-vaxers family that proves that vaccination vs natural immunity. I haven’t been able to find them.
I have seen reports that long term immunity is uncertain, but let’s face it, so is long term efficacy of vaccines. Boosters are already a thing.
Are there numbers of reinfections?

[Tomconroy]

5. We still don't know a lot about natural immunity. However in

Britain and Germany and probably other european countries proof of recent Covid illness is accepted for entry into public events in the same way proof of vaccination is.
There is certainly something to natural immunity but in this country the left views it with the same suspicion that the right views vaccines.

[forthemiddle]

6. My husband and I are both vaccinated

But he also had Covid before he was vaccinated.
I tested negative at the time, so I’m afraid I will have a breakthrough.

It seems that I know of many more breakthrough cases than I do reinfections, but I can’t find anything but the Israeli study that seems to prove past infection is better than vaccination.

[Tomconroy]

8. I don't think there is a study about whether natural immunity

Prevents serious illness and hospitalizations. I've heard there is evidence it doesn't prevent reinfection after awhile but we're finding out that's true of vaccines as well so everyone wants a booster.
I think I heard Dr Gottlieb say he thought natural immunity will give you some protection for a couple of years but you'd be foolish not to get the vaccine as well.
I'm no expert and I haven't looked up natural immunity stuff since August when the Israeli study came out.
As I said I think there is a lot that isn't known.

[Mad_Machine76]

9. Weren't there some recent studies

that infection (if you survive) + vaccination is offers the "best" protection against COVID? Of course, I still don't get the logic of playing what is essentially "russian roulette" with your health like that, not to mention giving the virus more spread and mutation opportunity.

[Tomconroy]

14. Yes. Everybody that I've heard thinks if you get Covid and get the

Vax you become super immune. But I think most experts will say natural immunity offers some protection though perhaps not as much as a vaccine. But NI will play some role in getting us past the pandemic.

[Tomconroy]

12. Serious breakthrough cases seem to effect mostly the elderly

And people with medical issues.
The CDC just put out an estimate without publicizing it that it estimates 147 million people have gotten Covid as opposed to the off the top of my head official number of 47 million. So they estimate 100 million people got Covid and didn't even know it. So we get all excited when someone gets a cough and tests positive. We really only need to worry about the vaccinated getting seriously ill and that's the elderly who really need boosters. Probably everyone will get infected at some point just like most people will get the flu and many of those infected won't even know it.
Obviously I am a way outlier on this issue so that's my rant. But I do think we're closer to getting over Covid than people think. Dr. Faucci last week said by March we may be past the pandemic stage. Then Covid will just be one more of life's pains in the butt.
I'll hunt down that cdc estimate and post it here in a minute. It's interesting.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html

[Mad_Machine76]

11. Darn right I'm suspicious

Of course I'm suspicious of people who'd risk getting a deadly disease that they can spread around and keep this pandemic going, rather than a safe and largely effective vaccine prevent widespread community spread, as well as end the pandemic.

Your analogy is.......questionable, JMHO.

[Tomconroy]

13. I'm not saying it's a good idea to not get a vaccine. I got mine

In March. But if you look at what little science there is, there is probably something to natural immunity. At least people in europe think there is.

[oasis]

7. The GOP likely consulted with Dr. Aaron Rogers M.D..

[texasfiddler]

10. Softly and Tenderly, Herman is calling ...

[Haggard Celine]

24. Come home, come home. Ye who eat horse paste, come home!

[krispos42]

16. Except the assholes would lie about having natural immunity, too.

These are insane, irrational people for whom NOT getting the vaccine is part of their cultural, political, and religious identity. And because they believe insane conspiracy theories, they have ZERO compunction again lying about getting the shot or having natural immunity.

If Jesus himself descended from Heaven and asked them live on international television if they were fully vaccinated or naturally immune, they would still lie!

[Tomconroy]

17. I think there's a feeling that the unvaxxed with NI are somehow

Last edited Sun Nov 21, 2021, 11:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Pulling a fast one and I suppose in a sense that's true. But it is what it is. If it works there's not much you can do about it.
Here's a pretty recent article that talks about NI and vaccines. Everyone seems to think NI will play a role in getting to herd immunity. I think it says NYC is almost there.

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/exploring-your-health/2021/10/06/could-delta-be-the-variant-to-end-the-pandemic-

[Initech]

19. I got my two shots - Jack Daniels and Jose Cuervo! Woooo!!!!

[Lithos]

20. The immunity gained by being infected wanes, just like the vaccine

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211024/unvaccinated-people-likely-to-catch-covid-repeatedly

Article cites that people who do not get the vaccine will get re-infected every 16-17 months.

[Tomconroy]

21. I agree with that. What I don't think is clear is how long NI protects you from

Serious illness. I've kind of come to the conclusion that just getting infected isn't what we should worry about. The CDC thinks 150 million people have been infected but only 47 million felt sick enough to get reported as an official Covid stat. But I know a lot of people here think getting infected is a disaster.

[Lithos]

22. Natural Immunity really does not mean anything in this case

If you catch Covid - your body's response is going to be based on many, many factors - some of which are deterministic and some of which are probabilistic.

These factors can be very different the second time.

First time through - where the virus entered your body was not ideal so the viral load did not grow quickly allowing your body time to respond, you had lots of sleep and were healthy.

Second time through - you may have anti-bodies, but the viral load comes on much stronger because the virus is slightly different (Delta). Maybe you just had the flu or developed some medical condition which has slightly compromised your immunity.

What also is NOT being talked about that in order to get NI - you have to have had COVID. This also runs the risk of developing long haul COVID. Taking the vaccine is nice as it removes this additional risk.

And lastly - there is an apples/oranges piece with people getting reinfected. The medical protocol for treatment has drastically improved the survival rate. Even so the death rate on reinfection seems to be running about 1% for people who were reinfected within 90 days of the first infection. Does not sound super promising, imho.

[Tomconroy]

23. The new pills should change things. The studies weren't enormous

But I think I read that the survival rate with the pill was 100 percent. I heard one is already approved in Britain. Maybe someday we will get around to approving them for emergency use. It should have been done yesterday.
I am pretty optimistic myself.
PS of course the right wing's heads are going to explode. According to the new New Yorker one of them actually does have the remote possibility of changing your dna. Don't tell anyone!
I did put up a little article about long haul Covid the other day. It is a curious subject. Someday they may even define what it is.