The Rittenhouse Verdict Will Backfire on Republicans

[babylonsister]

https://prospect.org/the-rittenhouse-verdict-will-backfire-on-republicans/

The American Prospect
Home
The Rittenhouse Verdict Will Backfire on Republicans
by Robert Kuttner
November 24, 2021

snip//

But think a little harder. Most Americans do not feel safer with 17-year-old trigger-happy vigilantes patrolling their communities with AR-15s. If Kyle Rittenhouse is the new face of the Republican Party, that’s a win for Democrats.

Most of the white American public is less racist than Republicans would like to believe. The murder convictions in the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery demonstrate that even in the deep south vigilantes are not invariably given impunity. After the police murder of George Floyd, two-thirds of Americans approved of the Movement for Black Lives. That approval has declined some, but has stabilized at around 55 percent. After former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin was convicted of Floyd’s murder in May 2021, three-quarters of Americans approved of the verdict.

Early polls show that a majority of Americans were uneasy about the Ritttenhouse acquittal. A YouGov poll found that a large majority of Democrats and a plurality of independents felt Rittenhouse was guilty of murder.

A Morning Consult poll found that 71 percent of Republicans but only 43 percent of all those polled approved of the verdict. A plurality also said the verdict gave them less confidence in the criminal justice system.

The strategy of lionizing vigilantes like Rittenhouse may deepen Republican support in hard-core Trump country. It will be a gift to Democrats in suburban swing districts where the 2022 midterms will be decided.

[Effete Snob]

1. "Most of the white American public is less racist than Republicans would like to believe"

Lol...yeah... say the same polls that preceded the Hillary Clinton presidency.

White voters overwhelmingly prefer Trump and Trumpism. Period.

While that bothers non-Trumpy white people, it is an undeniable fact that "most of the white American public" fucking loves his racist ass.

The most reliable Republican voters are white women. Period. Since 1952. The only exceptions have been Johnson and Clinton.

White women vote more like Sarah Palin than Hillary Clinton, and have done so for many decades.

Opinion polls not rooted in "who votes and in what states" are meaningless. Sure, there are large metropolitan populations in states that collectively don't command a clear electoral majority where you can stack up opinion poll numbers all you want, but where the rubber meets the road, white people vote for racism and racist candidates consistently.

[babylonsister]

2. Got numbers to back that up?

Just because they're loud doesn't make that true. Obama got elected twice. How did that happen?

[Effete Snob]

4. Are you serious?

Are you seriously suggesting that Obama carried a majority of white people?

You might want to read some analyses (with numbers) by women authors:

https://www.thecut.com/2020/11/many-white-women-still-voted-for-trump-in-2020.html

Of Course White Women Voted for Trump Again

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/white-women-support-gop/507617/


Why White Women Continue to Back the GOP

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/11/exit-polls-how-obama-won-015297

"The Illinois senator won 43 percent of white voters, 4 percentage points below Carter’s performance in 1976 and equal to what Bill Clinton won in the three-man race of 1996. Republican John McCain won 55 percent of the white vote."

You do understand that 55% is a majority, right?

Obama won twice because non-white voters turned out enthusiastically. White people did not elect Obama twice. I'm amazed that anyone believes otherwise. It has been analyzed to death a zillion times.

[CrispyQ]

9. And you might want to watch your tone with one of our most respected members. -nt

[Effete Snob]

14. Facts are facts

It is a basic and well known fact that white people voted against Obama, and against Biden.

Being "well respected" is hardly a license for snarky "got numbers to back that up?" over what is one of the most well-known phenomena of 21st century electoral politics.

[CrispyQ]

25. 168,436 1,363

Just sayin'.

[stopdiggin]

82. Nope. Dish it out, get it back.

Having a certain number of posts doesn't immunize or give you a pass.
It was a stupid riposte. And got answered.

[yardwork]

166. Are you seriously attacking a DUer because of their number of posts?

[BidenRocks]

60. Not THIS white person!

Black, woman, gay, old.......

It's the policies. That simple!

Inbred white folk may feel different of course. For them I would like to record their Thanksgiving dinner.

[SouthernLiberal]

66. Not me either

Although, because of where I live, and the electoral college, my vote did not actually count. I am a cis white woman who qualifies for Medicare, and I voted for Biden, and yes, for Hillary too.

[Effete Snob]

68. Well, golly

This being Democratic Underground, I wouldn't really think that a whole lot of white Trump voters hang out here.

Yes, one will probably find quite a few of the forty-something percent of white people who didn't vote for Trump, to be posting on DU.

[BunnyMcGee]

101. Look who's snarky now...

[llashram]

106. are you one?

just asking

[UnderThisLaw]

111. You'd be surprised

[ShazzieB]

69. No THIS old white woman, either.

And I am really sick of being lumped in with people who vote Republican just because I'm in a certain demographic group. It's very tiresome.

[ms liberty]

99. I'm white, my husband is white, my mil, my sister, my niece all white

A whole shit ton of other white people I know, and a lot I don't, all voted for Obama. We voted for Obama twice (who won NC in the first election), voted for Hillary and then Joe and (bonus points) we're all southern...and that's not all the white people in America who did.

You were way over generalizing (broad brush) and you got called on it by babylonsister, and she was right. She did not say that all white people voted for Obama, but a lot of us did. He would not have won NC or the first election without white people voting Dem too. We all got our voters out, period.

Finally, asking for links to back up your version of the facts is one of the most DU things anyone can do on this board. babylonsister was doing exactly as DU members have done for twenty years. If that's what you think snark is, no, you're missing the mark entirely. Snark is another of the things DU does and does well. Asking for links is way too simple and straightforward. If you make a claim here, expect to be asked to back it up. We're not going to believe something just because you, "Effete Snob" says it is so. Nor is it up to us to prove your claim. You make the argument, and we'll decide. Nothing personal, but you gotta be willing to back it up.

[littlemissmartypants]

126. Thanks for posting this. I ask for links all the time. I hate that

people aren't tolerant of my curiosity. But some people are so rude these days. That actually makes me feel sad. Thanks for your beautifully worded response. ❤

[ms liberty]

133. Thanks! n/t

[Effete Snob]

140. Numbers are not generalizations

The majority of white women have voted Republican in the last four elections.

The majority of white women are probably not in your extended family.

I am shocked that people on a political forum are not familiar with well-documented demographic analyses of the last four elections, but I have posted links to them in this thread.

[DLCWIdem]

151. You had it right the first time not the second

Last edited Fri Nov 26, 2021, 07:36 PM - Edit history (1)

The first time you stated white VOTERS. The 2nd time you said white women. You do realize that the U.S. doesn't have no where near 100% Voter participation. Your population is white voters not white women or people. Second of all, the % of black voters voting in 2016 went down several percentages from 2008 and 2012. Would Hilary's numbers also have something to do with her being a women? Gender biases rather than racial. How does 3rd party candidates fit into your theory and the fact that the Repubs spent 10 years demonizing her and her reputation. Also are you using exit polls? Did you take into consideration that 2020 exit polls may be skewed because of mail in voting. Your taking complex situation and applying a very simplistic theory and conclusions.

[Upthevibe]

16. CrispyQ...

I share your feelings....

[Ishoutandscream2]

24. Really?

I’ve seen much more disrespectful posts here before. This “clubhouse” and “popularity contest” is for the birds. No wonder newbies or even some of us old timers feel too nervous to post.

By the way, I started here as Ishoutandscream in 2002 and changed to Ishoutandscream2. I stick around for particular news items. But the sucking up to the “popular kids” and initial mistreatment of some newcomers sickens me and reminds me of high school bullshit.

[CrispyQ]

31. Yeah, really.

Babylonsister shares tons of articles on this site, contributing in ways that few do.

[Ishoutandscream2]

33. I'm sure she does.

I’m sure she’s a fine person. But that doesn’t make her any better than any other member here.

[CrispyQ]

41. I didn't say it made her better.

I just think she deserves a little higher level of respect than the average DUer & you're welcome to disagree with me on that.

Apologies for ruffling so many feathers on this day.

[brush]

74. I do not agree. Everyone deserves equal respect...except racists and wingers of course.

[yardwork]

165. Everybody deserves the same level of respect here.

[Ferrets are Cool]

108. This

[Mary in S. Carolina]

118. Ok Mom (Dad)

[yardwork]

164. We don't have special categories of posters on DU.

[Elessar Zappa]

13. Ya know, you can correct people without being rude.

[Effete Snob]

15. That seems to be a one way street, I see

The misconception that, against all known analysis, white people elected Obama or Biden is an acute manifestation of white liberal hubris.

[Ishoutandscream2]

28. Welcome to DU

Guess the new kid in class should just sit down and shut up. Some of these people really need to get out of their clubhouse and have some real world experiences.

[Mary in S. Carolina]

117. Yup

I was also attacked by a few of the popular kids for one of my views and was told that I "only" had 400+ posts. Needless to say, I blocked those 2 popular kids.

[uponit7771]

36. You're OK, we've seen worse ... posting facts gets you clicks keep it up

[EarnestPutz]

55. I agree. It is rude to say "You do know that 55% is a majority don't you?" Let's....

....take a page from Rodney King and try to get along. Without too much snark.

[BidenRocks]

65. Many insist on

flogging the deceased equestrian.

Is having the last word that important?

Happy Thanksgiving!

[babylonsister]

89. No, I was suggesting Obama carried the majority of the vote.

I honestly wasn't thinking what groups voted for him; you're the one doing the parsing. I am not going to argue with you but yes, I do understand that 55% is a majority. That was unnecessary.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Effete Snob]

138. Obama did not get the majority of the vote among white voters

White voters preferred - by a considerable majority in 2008 and in 2012 - the candidates whose supporters claimed Obama was somehow not really American.

[Progressive Jones]

98. Those "white women" who went for Trump aren't exactly quality Americans. nt

[monkeyman1]

102. RUSSIAN BOT'S !

[Progressive Jones]

103. I was thinking Right Wing Nut Jobs, redneck wives, and other such people. nt

[Effete Snob]

139. Do you believe that describes the majority of white women?

Because the majority of white women have voted Republican in the last four presidential elections.

Responding to that with "not THIS white woman" is simply silly, because that has nothing to do with the majority of white women.

[WestIndianArchie]

123. Wow

Effete, I wouldn't take any of these responses seriously. Yes, they are suggesting that Obama carried the white vote, and the actual numbers tell a different story.

"Obama won twice because non-white voters turned out enthusiastically. White people did not elect Obama twice. I'm amazed that anyone believes otherwise. It has been analyzed to death a zillion times."

They know they have a demographics problem. As a power structure, you're not going to change the rules (Voting Laws) if they believe they can win.

[Effete Snob]

6. Ever heard of an outfit called Cornell University?

Here are some numbers from 2012:

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2012

White: Obama 39, Romney 59

White people did not elect Obama. Not once and not twice.

[paleotn]

21. Depends on where you are....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election_in_Vermont

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election_in_Vermont

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election_in_New_Hampshire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election_in_New_Hampshire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election_in_Maine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election_in_Maine

My point being, while relatively small, these are probably the whitest states in the country. Overwhelmingly so. And by a long shot compared to CA, TX, FL and NY. None of the three were carried by Trump in 2016 or 2020.

[Effete Snob]

26. "these are probably the whitest states in the country. Overwhelmingly so"

Saying that "these small northeast states had white people voting Democratic" does not change the fact that the majority of white people where I am - THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - vote for the racist candidate consistently.

Nobody is running to be "President of Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine".

[Tommymac]

51. I call bullshit.

I live in Western PA. Lots of racism here, no doubt.

But FUCKING NOWHERE NEAR THE MAJORITY. I personally find your statement and pov insulting to my friends, family, myself and the majority of Americans.

I live in a working class neighborhood. The bars do have an good number old white racists, and some younger white racists...but most of the young people laugh at them (us mature folk simply ignore them), as they laugh among their highly diverse group of friends around their tables and talk about their black girlfriend or muslim best friend or asian neighbor. The racists are in the minority by a long margin. And the cliente is largely white.

I'll consider your statements to be entirely wrong unless and until you can pull up recent reputable studies that f'ing PROVE the majority of White Americans are racist. Not applying to one state here or there. in 2012 or 2016 or 1985. THE WHOLE FUCKING COUNTRY. NOW. 2021.

You are simply wrong wrong wrong imo.

I'll wait for your reply to see if you can post such a study to back up your ridiculous statements; if not, anything else you may say I'll simply ignore it.

Giving you the respect you gave Babylon Sister.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Effete Snob]

57. "studies that f'ing PROVE the majority of White Americans are racist"

Please quote the post where I said that?

I said that the majority of white Americans vote for the more racist-aligned candidate, and I backed it up with several links to reputable studies including Cornell University.

If you are going to claim that either:

(a) Trump did not appeal to racists, or

(b) Trump did not win a majority of white votes.

Then it is bleedingly obvious that both of those statements are wrong.

Trump appealed to naked racism and won a majority of white votes both times. Those are facts, Jack. I am sorry that you find reality insulting.

"and some younger white racists...but most of the young people laugh at them"

Because racism is so funny. You meant to say "young white people", because there are people who probably do not frequent such establishments because they are not in on the joke.

[Tommymac]

58. You sure did say that in no uncertain terms.

Have a good life. Good bye.

[Effete Snob]

61. But not anywhere you can quote me

Because I said that the majority of white people voted for the candidate that appealed to racism. That was the entire thrust of the Palin side of the McCain candidacy and the associated birther nonsense that never faded away in both of the Obama elections, and if one wants to argue that Trump didn't appeal to racism, then I don't know what to say about that.

[paleotn]

73. Interestingly, not in VT, ME or NH. Why is that? Waiting.....

[Effete Snob]

76. Well, gee, not in my house either!

100% of the white people in my house voted for Obama and for Biden. Wow!

Surprisingly, not every white person in the United States lives in my house.

What kind of an argument are you trying to make?

41% of white people voted for Biden. Yah, sure, 41% of white people is more white people than in several northeastern states even.

The fact that a minority of white people did vote Democratic doesn't really change the fact that most white people did not.

Absolutely, you can draw a box around a sliver of the electoral vote in the northeast and say "Look, lots of white people voted Democratic" doesn't change the fact that in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - all 50 states and some territories - most white people didn't.

[paleotn]

81. Most white people in northern New England voted for Obama and Biden.

Most white people in the south voted for Trump. You cannot lump all white people in the entire freaking universe together. You're broad brushing bullshit, that's my argument. And being a bit of an ass doing it. Not a good look in my opinion.

[Effete Snob]

141. There is no "President of Northern New England"

The majority of white people voted for Trump both times.

That is a fact.

If the truth bothers you, the problem is not with the truth.

[WestIndianArchie]

162. When you call them out

They will always feign hurt feelings or I'm so insulted. Its all bullshit.

[brush]

75. Keep posting facts. I'm with you.

[Karma13612]

136. And keep in mind

That these three states have lots of rural conservative voters. The large cities are few (Burlington for Vermont for instance).

They have a Republican Gov in Vermont, even if it voted for Biden.

And hate groups have found homes in these states according to a map from SPLC.

So, despite this, they still didn’t vote for Trump. Wonder if they just stayed home??

Anyway, thanks for this info.

[paleotn]

137. I live in VT....

and outside of the "northeast kingdom" and parts of Rutland county (West Rutland, Clarendon, Fair Haven particularly) even the rural areas are varying shades of blue. Then again, other than Burlington ALL of VT is rural by most measures. And even the kingdom isn't all that red by my standards. I moved up here years ago from an area in western NC that voted 4 to 1 for Trump twice and Obama lost twice. Now THAT'S red.

Coos county over in NH voted for Obama twice, but then went for Trump twice. It's rural, working class vs. the extremely blue, more educated Lebanon / Hanover in Grafton county.

My point being, don't stereotype. Human shorthand doesn't always work in the real world.

[Karma13612]

153. Agreed!

Say, what is the latest on Slate Ridge? Are they still intimidating the local residents?

That has been such a sad scary situation. Not sure what I would do if I was faced with that close to me. I’m in a rural area of NY-21. That’s why I kinda follow what is going on in VT.

WPTZ gives news for both sides of Lake Champlain.

[paleotn]

154. Latest I've heard we're waiting on the VT supreme to rule...

but only on permits, town bylaws and Pawlet's ability to regulate "shooting ranges". Frustrating. The perp has apparently been able to stay just barely to the good side of the law on intimidation and firearm offenses. I find that very hard to believe. More to come, I'm sure.

And high from across the lake!

[Karma13612]

155. Yea, it's been a mess.

And did you know that he originally considered NY as his location but was deterred because our gun laws are more strict!

Hang in there! 🙋?♀️❄️

[paleotn]

156. Thanks. One of Vermont's quirks is our lax gun laws.

[lildDemz]

56. Regardless of the subject

your tone is exceptionally rude.

[Elessar Zappa]

3. But the white voters in many suburban areas

seem open, at least, to voting Democratic.

[DeeDeeNY]

43. I would like to believe that

But there are a frightening number of houses in my cozy New York suburb still displaying Trump flags almost a year after the election. Things like”Trump 2024-The Rules Have “Changed” - whatever that means. One house has 3 lawn signs- one is just Trump 2024, one is Let’s Go Brandon and one is Fuck Biden.

[ShazzieB]

62. The white voters in my suburban area do seem open to voting Democratic.

At least some of them do. When we moved here in 1994, this place was fire engine red. There are still a lot of Republicans, but it's been steadily getting more and more purple as time goes on.

The two congressional districts that cover my county both elected Dems in 2018 and again in 2020, after having been Republican basically forever. Unfortunately, this county did go for Trump last year, but it was very close (51% for Trump, I think). Not many years ago, the GOP candidate always won by a hefty margin.

It's not as blue here as I would like, but it's getting better all the time.

[Upthevibe]

18. Effete Snob,,,,

There's no need to be so rude is there?

I mean really...

[Effete Snob]

20. Where do I apply for a condescension license?

Obviously, some have them and some don't.

I know it is upsetting to some that white people vote racist, but is a well-demonstrated and documented fact.

Racism works with white voters.

Whistling past the electoral graveyard with "whites won't go for that sort of thing" is electoral doom. White people enthusiastically vote racist by a wide margin.

White people voted against Obama in 2008 and 2012. White people voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020.

I'm just shocked that on a political forum like this, so few seem to have bothered to check every analysis of voter outcomes in the past FOUR presidential elections, but make condescending snarky comments at those who have.

[paleotn]

23. Some white people vote racist....

please put down the broad brush.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16086986

[Effete Snob]

32. A majority of white people vote for the racist candidate

Is there a rule against posting well-documented facts as well?

MOST white people voted for McCain, Romney, Trump and Trump in the last four elections.

That is a numerical fact.

If facts are bothersome, then one is not prepared to deal with reality or what is needed to change it.

And if truth is against the rules, then that speaks for itself.

[Mossfern]

63. They may vote for the Republican candidate

but not necessarily because they are racist or are voting for that candidate because they agree with any racist leanings they have.
don't believe that all Republicans are racist.

[Effete Snob]

67. Okay, I am surprised to learn Trump is not a racist and did not appeal to racism

A majority of white voters voted for Trump.

I am surprised to hear he is no longer a racist.

The Central Park Five thing was just a head fake.

Also surprised to learn that Nixon's "Southern Strategy", which was the basis for an electoral re-alignment throughout the south which has lasted decades, did not happen.

I am petitioning my University for a return of a pro-rata share of my tuition for my political science classes. I was obviously misinformed.

[Mossfern]

80. I can't see how you get to that from my post

Maybe I can say it more clearly.
Some Republicans vote for a candidate in spite of that candidate being a racist not because he is a racist.

[CrackityJones75]

105. Also since 2016 came up in this thread

Also since 2016 came up in this thread I would think it is more on point to discuss the sexism behind voters. Right?

[Effete Snob]

149. More White Women Voted Trump Than Clinton

Pew Research, check the "white women" row:



More of them voted for Trump than Clinton. I doubt it was sexism.

[ProfessorGAC]

96. I Know Some R Voters...

...that voted for TFG in '16, simply because there was an R after his name.
None are racists.
A few voted for it again in '20, but the others sat it out. Maybe they voted for Joe, but I tend to think they didn't. They just wouldn't vote for the lying crook again. (Their descriptor)
Again, none are racists.
They are just lifelong Rs, who started voting before the GOP became the party of crazy & hate.

[Progressive Jones]

113. I know many, many people who fit that description. Some even rejected

Trump the first time around. Smart people.

[radius777]

115. If they voted for Trump, ipso facto they are racist,

or at least don't see racism as a deal breaker.

[Mary in S. Carolina]

120. I agree

[Progressive Jones]

122. I don't buy that, and I'm extremely anti-racist. I just don't see racism around every corner.

[Effete Snob]

146. You don't think white voters generally knew Trump was racist?

Because a majority of them voted for Trump, twice.

The post said that they were either racist or didn't see it as a deal breaker.

I'm pretty sure people knew which side the racists were on in the last two elections.

[Progressive Jones]

157. Trump had black and brown voters. Are they white racists, too? nt

[radius777]

159. Actually yes. Many/most of his PoC support

comes from those who dislike other PoC and/or are sexist, homophobic, religious etc. It's called internalized oppression, where historically opressed groups choose to identify with the dominant culture.

[radius777]

160. +1. Trump won the GOP primary

by using a bullhorn instead of dogwhistles, making it clear that if elected he would attempt to roll back all of the gains of social justice over the past 50 years. That is why he felled a field of 17 more qualified candidates, and what his base likes about him. Other voters who voted for him (who are not part of his core base) are not as racist but don't see racism as a dealbreaker and don't view systemic racism as real.

[Effete Snob]

144. Correct

The majority of white Americans voted for Trump twice.

Anyone voting for Trump KNEW that Trump had the support of racist freaks.

It did not bother them.

[radius777]

161. The R's have long been the party of hate

well before Trump: Nixon's Southern Strategy, Lee Atwater's dogwhistle strategy, Willie Horton, etc.

[paleotn]

71. A majority of white people in VT, NH and ME don't vote for racist candidates.

Is there a rule against posting well-documented facts?

That said, your argument doesn't hold up mathematically either. If just 5% of those white voters who do vote Dem switched parties in just a handful of states, Obama would have lost twice and Biden wouldn't have won. So those white voters pushed both Obama and Biden over the top.

Your entire premise is really nonsensical.

[Effete Snob]

78. "Your entire premise is really nonsensical"

My premise is that a majority of white people in the country voted for Trump, twice.

That is not an opinion. It is a fact.

It is not contradicted by the stats on a handful of individual states.

There are probably plenty of states where the same thing can be said.

And, yes, if my aunt had four wheels and a V8, she'd be a 1957 Chevy. But she doesn't.

[paleotn]

83. Not a majority evenly across the country.

thus your argument is nonsensical. It makes sense only in certain regions. Completely falls apart in New England and the liberal coasts. My point is, you cannot lump all white people into a single box, nor can you lump all black people, all Latinos or all people of Asian decent, ad nauseam. Certain white people in certain sub demographics vote overwhelmingly racist. Absolutely no doubt about that. But, not all sub groups. You're broad brushing. The fallacy of sweeping generalization.

[Effete Snob]

145. The region I am talking about is the United States of America

It is neither a generalization nor a broad brush to state that the majority of white voters in the United States of America cast their ballot for Donald Trump twice.

That is a fact.

It is not an opinion. It is not a bias.

It is a numerical fact that the majority of white voters in the United States of America cast their ballot for Donald Trump twice.

Nixon used the "Southern Strategy" because it worked.

Bush used the "Willie Horton Ad" because it worked.

There was no secret, in 2016 or 2020 that Trump was on the side of racists. People who voted for him - i.e. the numerically confirmed majority of white people - knew that and, at a minimum, did not care.

[Zeitghost]

158. The non-latino white population in the US is 200M

Even if every one of his 74M voters were white, and we know they were not, it doesn't reach the definition of majority. 74/200=.37

[uponit7771]

39. +1, it was non cologe white women who swung to TrumpKin by 20% in VA gov race. We need to do better

... with that group and get the data

[Effete Snob]

40. We're not going to do better with our heads in the sand

The first step toward solving a problem is recognizing it, IMHO.

[uponit7771]

42. +1, instead of going after the 77 million where racism isn't a deal breaker we need to go after

and reach communities of color like Stacy Abrams did.

The racist vote is expensive and harder to get and a lower net vote too.

I just read in 2020 dems didn't go after CoC radio stations in places like Miami Dade and South Texas like we were supposed to, we need to flood those avenues

there are too many people blaming dem messaging mechanics on everything but us and the first thing we need to do is change priority of who we're talking to. South Texas and Miami Dade was a travesty and there's no way we have a union if that ever repeats and that was just underusing radio !!

Only 64% of DEMOCRATS believe voter suppression is a problem .. like WTF ?! 35% of democrats aren't on fire with the voter suppression bullshit the GQP is pulling ?!

That's messaging and who we're trying to win

[Effete Snob]

59. It's kind of amazing

People decry Nixon's "Southern Strategy" and lay the blame at the feet of Nixon and his campaign managers, but gloss over the fact that IT WORKED AND IT STILL DOES.

When a majority of white voters go for a naked racist like Trump two times, the problem is not that Trump appeals to racism. The problem is that appeals to racism WORK WITH WHITE VOTERS.

That simple fact really seems to piss folks off.

[uponit7771]

90. +1, instead of calling the racism wrong and calling it out dems try not to insult the racist like

... damn, we can call what the GQP does wrong and still get votes.

The racist weren't going to vote dem anyway

[druidity33]

91. Actually, the clue is in the name...

I have a very good friend who will tell anyone who will listen, "I am an asshole". And honestly he is. He is really rude (but funny), sometimes spends much time needling individuals (to their great consternation) and undeniably scoffs at emotional responses (but is totally a teddy bear). As long as you accept his assholishness, he's actually pretty cool. So maybe taking "Effete Snob" at their word (or name as the case may be) and expecting rudeness might be your best course of action? Because it's true you know... the majority of white people voted for the other guy.

[BlueMTexpat]

125. Well said.

Unfortunately.

[Effete Snob]

148. "Unfortunately"

Unfortunately, there were people who did not support Spiro Agnew? Is that it?


https://politicaldictionary.com/words/effete-snobs/

“Effete snobs” was a phrase used by Vice President Spiro Agnew to denounce anti-war protesters, and young intellectuals in general, during the Vietnam era. The phrase quickly caught on and was adopted as a slogan by the anti-war movement.



It was a badge of honor among liberals. Now, "Democrats" don't even recognize it.

[BlueMTexpat]

150. It's not the

name so much as your living up (or down) to its worst connotation.

[Effete Snob]

147. You should learn something about Democratic politics and history

It figures that someone on DU would put down the anti-Vietnam war movement...

https://politicaldictionary.com/words/effete-snobs/

“Effete snobs” was a phrase used by Vice President Spiro Agnew to denounce anti-war protesters, and young intellectuals in general, during the Vietnam era. The phrase quickly caught on and was adopted as a slogan by the anti-war movement.



It was a badge of honor among liberals. Now, supposed "Democrats" don't even recognize it.

[druidity33]

152. There you go again... living up to your name. nt.

[Bengus81]

34. 12% more whites voting for Trump than Biden doesn't constitute "most" IMO

[Effete Snob]

37. White fragility is not going to beat Merriam Webster

Wow.

most adjective

1 : greatest in quantity, extent, or degree the most ability
2 : the majority

most adverb (1)

1 : to the greatest or highest degree

2 : to a very great degree

most noun

: the greatest amount

most pronoun, singular or plural in construction

: the greatest number or part


-----------

I regret to inform you that 12% more is, indeed, "most".

[Bengus81]

50. Then so is a mere 1%

BFD........

[Effete Snob]

53. In some alternative reality, sure

But white people voted for McCain, Romney and Trump by wider margins than Obama and Biden won their elections.

I find that focusing on actual reality is more informative than some imaginary pretend universe where the margin was only 1%. Because it wasn't 1%, now was it?

[paleotn]

72. How do you explain Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine?

By far the whitest states in the union. Waiting breathlessly for a logical response.

[Effete Snob]

77. They are unrepresentative of white people nationally

That's pretty obvious.

44% of white people voted for Biden. That's tens of millions of white people. Quite a few live in some northeastern states with relatively low populations.

Golly, how do I explain the fact that EVERY WHITE PERSON IN MY HOUSE VOTED FOR BIDEN.

Gee, that really blows the national stats clean out of the water, I suppose.

[electric_blue68]

93. I think it's more like 35% being really for drumph...

and about 10% - 15% being the really violent ones. It's not good, but maaaybe not as terrible as some might think.

Of course, besides non-drumphy whites, women (esp independent thinking ones), African Americans, and all POC, LGBTQI, below upper middle class (esp working class, poor, disabled, elders in general, and our democracy/republic this is not good.

Since it says "less racist" it acknowledges white racism which at least a bunch of white people work on to get rid of, educate themselves of AA American History, and help ease the past and current effects of racism.

[lees1975]

100. "Most" is a relative term

The statement was made that "Most of the white American public is less racist than Republicans would like to believe." That's not really measurable by how whites voted. Even if that's what you look at to make the determination, somewhere between 43% and 45% of whites nationally, including a majority of college educated and under 40, didn't vote for Trump, though that's a dubious measurement of racism. Voting for Trump doesn't make you a racist any more than voting for Biden means you're not one.

What is a fact is that whites are a declining precentage of both the population and the electorate and we've reached a point where the combination of white, progressive voters with African Americans, Latinos, Asian Americans, Native Americans, Jewish Americans, Arab Americans and just about every other kind of "other" ethnic or racial minority, is a clear majority. How many of those voters are racist, and how to even measure that number, is a much bigger problem.

[Mr. Scorpio]

116. Facts.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

129. YEP. Sorry you're getting slammed for this.

[MontanaMama]

5. It'll backfire on Rottenhouse himself.

He will ride the right wing wave of adulation for being a hateful POS and amount to nothing in his life.

[doc03]

7. I don't think things will end well for him. nt

[SCantiGOP]

8. And something else

He will basically spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder, always afraid that karma might be sneaking up on him.

[MontanaMama]

12. Yes. There is that.

My kiddo pointed out that someone might indeed take him out or at least try to. What a crappy way to have to live.

[calimary]

84. Yep. There definitely is that.

[empedocles]

11. rittenhouse may not yet be 'out of the woods' yet.

[Polybius]

54. Or he'll be a Congressman

Just in time for the 2028 election.

[ashredux]

10. The young man should have taken his attorneys advice....

Change your name and stay off TV

[Sympthsical]

19. Richards is the only one in that orbit with common sense

He knew the shit that was coming. After acquittal, Rittenhouse should take the win, disappear, and do what he can to move on with his life.

But all the handlers, operatives, and activists are whispering in an 18 year old's ear, and that's going to go how all of us expect - not well. And he's not the most intelligent teenager landed on planet earth to begin with.

Since the verdict, all of Richards' statements have been some variation of, "These fucking people . . ." Highly detectable disgust.

It'll be a shitshow. It's already starting to be with the wrestling over the bond money.

[ashredux]

35. The young man has yet to learn the difference between famous and infamous... he will soon

The young man has yet to learn the difference between famous and infamous

[MustLoveBeagles]

48. Correct

Of course if he'd been smart he wouldn't have been in this situation in the first place.

[bringthePaine]

17. Rittenhouse is, and always will be, a multi-murderer, just as the judge is forever a disgrace

[efhmc]

27. IMHO That is the most salient comment here.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

[calimary]

87. Yes indeed.

I’d guess many might forget about the ridiculous judge in this case, but not Little Boy Rittenhouse. He will carry this mark of ignominy for the rest of his life.

[LiberalFighter]

22. Parents might tolerate their snot nosed kid.

But they see other snot nosed kids in a different light. And not in a good way.

People will be thinking it will lead to young kids being reckless and a danger.

[3Hotdogs]

29. Picture a Dem. campaign poster..... after the next Supreme Court pro-gun ruling.

Photo of Little Kyle, posing with an AK-15.

"Is this who you want, patrolling your neighborhood"

[Traildogbob]

38. Posing

With dead human bodies like Jr and Eric do with game animals.

[LeftInTX]

135. "The gun nut next door"

[localroger]

30. The Rittenhouse verdict was very technical in nature

It was only possible because Rittenhouse accidentally threaded a gauntlet of peculiarities in Wisconsin law; change just one little thing here or there, and he would have done time. Most people even on our side aren't in the habit of thinking through the details of how laws work, particularly the small details of crazy gun laws. Seeing an obvious creep like KR get off scot free is going to make a lot of previously complacent people pay more attention to what their legislatures are doing.

Anybody who thinks his acquittal is a free pass for anything is in for a rude surprise. He only barely got out of it in WI. There are probably only a handful of other states so far where he would have been as lucky.

[Kaleva]

64. +1

[IronLionZion]

44. I sure hope so

we keep hoping diversity and sensible whites will save us. The hateful murderous ones should eventually have less influence in society. We'll see.

[NoMoreRepugs]

45. I have hope for the Democratic Party - primarily because of the passion

I read here at DU. Sure there are some CasparMilkToasts among the throng - but there are plenty of members who still have that fire in their belly.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

[MustLoveBeagles]

49. Happy Thanksgiving

[mopinko]

46. it's the soccer moms, stupid.

white women in the suburbs vote the safety of their children. they are swing voters. w scared them, obama made them hope, tfg scared them, biden made them hope.
youngkin managed to scare them.

rittenhouse probably scares them. if we grab that, we win.

[usaf-vet]

47. The murder has linked himself to the least loyal bunch of hypocrites in political history.

He will ride high on the current wave (15 minutes of fame) until he moves from the assets column to the liability column.

They will jettison him without a moment of remorse.

If there is any chance for him to ever lead a positively productive life. He will first have to admit to himself he took the life of two other human beings.

My bet is that PTSD will haunt him for the rest of his life.

[BootinUp]

52. Despite posts arguing over voting statistics the basic premise of the article is sound. nt

[marie999]

70. We need a massive "Willie Horton" type ad against all Republicans.

[randr]

79. What we need do is put our differences of OPINION aside

and paint a graphic picture of a child with a weapon of mass destruction as the equivalent of a "safe" world.
Rittenhouse has indeed handed us the image we need to paint repugs in a very bad light.

[Stargleamer]

85. I very much doubt it

Republicans are banking on their voter suppression and gerrymandering to carry them through to victory, and I see no reason to doubt them in this regard.

[Cha]

86. As it should be.

[stopdiggin]

88. Agree. The Rittenhouse narrative

(however, sliced, diced, and explained), makes a lot of Americans uneasy at best. And a LARGE majority of those people find any attempt to lionize this young fool - wrong footed and just plain offensive. Mar-a-logo was typical Trump blundering (he's still got the touch!), and a lot of people are just plain damned tired of it. Let the far right run with this. The racists and 2A humpers are alienating far more than they are attracting or appeasing.

[Trueblue1968]

92. The Rittenhouse Verdict Will Backfire on Republicans - GOPs - Murderer lovers

[Scruffy1]

94. Racism depends a lot upon geography.

One of the things you learn in Human relations class is that the lesser the contact people have with minorities the more they are bigoted toward them. In my opinion the most racist place I ever lived was Wisconsin. Outside of Milwaukee, there is very little African American presence. There were zero in the county I lived in. I remember someone I knew from Wisconsin telling me about his uncle belonging to the KKK. The man had never seen an African American. The places I've been in that had the least racism were a part of an urban neighborhood that had a high percentage of African American residents. Of course, if they were really racists they probably would have moved out. Here in El Paso I see very little of racism. Several retired military have told me that was one of the reasons they decided to retire here. About 80% of the population is considered Hispanic, which is silly in my humble opinion since most Mexicans are descended at least partly from the native inhabitants of Mexico. My gut feel is that as we become more of an urban nation the less that racism will play a part in politics and the justice system. Also, I think the younger generation is less racist. Meanwhile, it has been mainly the POC that has saved our sorry, white asses from full control by the fascist bastards.

[malaise]

95. MUST READ

Rec

[bucolic_frolic]

97. Been following Kuttner off and on since his Business Week days of the 1990s

Not only should we have less confidence in the justice system, we should fearful of these vigilantes. Vigilantes get the wrong guy or are overzealous way more often than the jury system coughs up a bad verdict.

[Skittles]

104. I don't even want to associate with people who excuse Rittenhouses actions

they make me sick

[pansypoo53219]

107. he has already gone zimmerman. but as he is a baby faced white boy.....

he will fuck up.

[PatrickforB]

110. Well, I did read an editorial about how Rittenhouse did actually kill

those people in self-defense...but I do not buy this and I will tell you why.

Rittenhouse open-carried an assault weapon which is illegal. Since self-defense cannot be invoked by someone who kills someone else in in the commission of a crime, self-defense was not a valid reason for aquittal.

It is ironic to me that in Wisconsin we had this jury that acquitted this idiot, but in the deep south, in GA, the three guys who killed Arbury were convicted.

As the editorial says, people like me are disgused with Wisconsin justice, and the racism it shows, and not feeling too sanguine about this right wing crowing about how they can now show up armed at any demonstration.

[LiberatedUSA]

124. The weapon charge was dropped.

So no, it wasn’t illegal for him to be carrying that length of rifle. Change the law, if you don’t like it.

[PatrickforB]

132. It was an assault rifle. He carried an assault rifle into a demonstration

against racism. He was on the side of the white supremacists. He got in trouble and ended up shooting three people.

Yeah, the jury declared him not guilty. The trouble is that now, when people are demonstrating against future racist acts or wars yet to be, that these heavily armed white supremacist 'militias' will crawl out of the woodwork and take the law into their own hands.

I don't know about you, but that is NOT what I want, because it is NOT good for this republic.

At all.

[myohmy2]

114. eventually...

...it becomes impossible to deny the obvious...

...if you continue to twist yourself into knots trying to justify your evil reasoning, position and ways, God will punish you...

...nasty people will go to hell...

...and most republicans are nasty...

[Mr. Scorpio]

119. As a Black man living in America...

I have a hard time believing that the majority of white voters in this country will stop voting for the Republicans, especially since the GOP is operating as the party of white grievance.

All of this “Not all white people” mess is disregarding the basic demographic that that has always been significant with the majority white vote, in that it rarely votes against the promotion of its own whiteness.

Sure, you can cite the margins that would do that, but it’s never been the majority.

The only way this is going to change is by a demographic shift of fewer and fewer white voters and by non-GOP voters physically moving into mostly white districts. Concentrated pockets of non-white/non-GOP voting whites, even when we’re statistically the majority, will only cede power to a mostly white minority that’s spread all over the place. That’s why gerrymandering is such a problem. That’s why the marginal white vote is so significant in national elections.

Kyle Rittenhouse will barely change anything. This isn’t about him. It’s about the inordinate amount of influence that white supremacy has always had in America.

[Effete Snob]

142. Bang on

I'm amazed that people find the simple fact to be personally offensive somehow.

Like, it is more offensive to them to hear that the majority of white Americans voted Trump twice, than it is troublesome that it in fact happened.

[JI7]

163. Yes, we always talk about hispanics voting Republican or if there is an increase of black people

voting republican. But the fact is a majority of these groups still vote Democratic mostly . Whites have voted majority republican ever since civil rights was passed .

[argyl]

121. He's not quite as stupid as I thought he'd be. I'll give him that.

But it's obvious he was heavily coached for the gentlest " interrogation" I've ever seen. Fucker Tucker's doing his damnedest to make him a hero/slash martyr I've ever seen. And it's not working, except maybe among the creme de La creme of the stupidest this badly dumbed down country has to offer.

Ole Kyle just ain't got the superficialities that the Neo Nazis would love and March around with him on their shoulders. Not blonde, good looking, or built like he hit the gym regularly.

He's way too goofy looking, with a downright ugly visage, a flabby build,manboobs and all, and no anger seething in him.
They'll drop him like a hot potato.

[ecstatic]

127. Only if Democrats push the issue. Nt

[Calista241]

128. Support for gun control is at its lowest in years.

So I’m not going to hold my breath that this backfires.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

130. "Most of the white American public is less racist than Republicans would like to believe."

Yep, and a lot of the white American public is more racist than some Democrats like to pretend.

[Effete Snob]

143. I had not realized how right you are

[msfiddlestix]

131. not soon enough. should have backfired immediately

now he's lionized and made into this bizarre hero. which suggests the level of support for the behavior and visceral agreement for lack better term, the rationalization I suppose he expressed in the commission of the host crimes he should be serving life in prison for.

[LeftInTX]

134. I doubt it

The Zimmerman verdict didn't do s thing